DUST Search - The REAL reason why scouts are underpowered...

Sloth9230 wrote:

Re-FLeX wrote:

Sloth9230 wrote:

Re-FLeX wrote:

Whats the use of the 3 Equipment slots on a scout or 2 on the VK0 when you don't even get to use them due to the lack of CPU?

Maybe you're not supposed to be able to use them all, just have to option to use them? Either use a low module or equipment. Whats wrong with any suit requiring CPU modules anyway? If nobody needed them then they would be pointless. Just be glad that they don't also use PG like PG modules use CPU.

Assault and Logi's can fit everything they desire (sometimes they run out of PG but that's a whole nother story) yet scouts have to use a CPU chip in order to fit what they want?! (even after maxing out all cpu reducing skills) hell nooooo. they have a 3H-3L setup and you're saying i need to waste a low slot just so i can be effective?

I don't really use scouts so I'm a bit ignorant on them, but what low modules do they need that they can't "sacrifice" a slot for a CPU module. I also doubt assault/ logis can fit EVERYTHING they want. I'm using a type two and I need a cpu upgrade just to fit a enhanced/complex damage mod and I definitely can't equip a second complex shield extender because I don't have the PG for it. So no, running out of PG isn't a whole nother story.

Edit: a way to test possible fittings would really come in handy right now Lol

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Goat of Dover Shadow Company HQ 162	Posted - 2013.03.13 23:37:00 - [31] - Quote Cyn Bruin wrote: CCP needs to rethink how they are doing suits as a whole. Scouts lack CPU. Assaults lack PG. There are no skills to lower PG for fitting items like there is for CPU. Not hijacking thread my man, just stating they need to look at ALL suits not just scout. Armor Upgrades decreases PG for plates and maybe reppers not sure about the reppers though. I can see your issue though no one runs plates really but heavies, since shields are by far the way to go right now.
DUST Fiend Immobile Infantry 2021	Posted - 2013.03.13 23:37:00 - [32] - Quote Icy Tiger wrote: Yes, and the massive penalty is not being able to stand still and aim. Even a militia guy can completely take me out if I stand still for 2+ seconds in my A-series suit. As I said, scouts need more scout options because the shotgun is really the only weapon worth using with them right now. Why you would ever put an AR on a scout to begin with is beyond me. Scouts speed tank, it's what we do.
DJINN Marauder Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 316	Posted - 2013.03.13 23:43:00 - [33] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Icy Tiger wrote: Yes, and the massive penalty is not being able to stand still and aim. Even a militia guy can completely take me out if I stand still for 2+ seconds in my A-series suit. As I said, scouts need more scout options because the shotgun is really the only weapon worth using with them right now. Why you would ever put an AR on a scout to begin with is beyond me. Scouts speed tank, it's what we do. Don't disregard the AR scout so fast. They are actually quite good.
Goat of Dover Shadow Company HQ 162	Posted - 2013.03.13 23:48:00 - [34] - Quote All in all the scout is weak right now and I don't mean EHP or CPU/PG. I mean as a whole. But they are the most fun and difficult to play. That alone for some players is enough to play it. No it may not be very competitive right now but give it time it will get better. And until it does for all the things that are weak I will continue to play them. Hurrah for armor, dropships, and scouts. One day you will fear us until then, well we will try and make you fear us a little.
Goat of Dover Shadow Company HQ 162	Posted - 2013.03.13 23:50:00 - [35] - Quote DJINN Marauder wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Icy Tiger wrote: Yes, and the massive penalty is not being able to stand still and aim. Even a militia guy can completely take me out if I stand still for 2+ seconds in my A-series suit. As I said, scouts need more scout options because the shotgun is really the only weapon worth using with them right now. Why you would ever put an AR on a scout to begin with is beyond me. Scouts speed tank, it's what we do. Don't disregard the AR scout so fast. They are actually quite good. Also Nova Knives are a great side arm you move like lightning. But you have to know how to play cover with only one real weapon. Which is something you should learn as a scout anyway. lol
Sloth9230 Reaper Galactic 440	Posted - 2013.03.13 23:51:00 - [36] - Quote Re-FLeX wrote: Whats the use of the 3 Equipment slots on a scout or 2 on the VK0 when you don't even get to use them due to the lack of CPU? Maybe you're not supposed to be able to use them all, just have to option to use them? Either use a low module or equipment. Whats wrong with any suit requiring CPU modules anyway? If nobody needed them then they would be pointless. Just be glad that they don't also use PG like PG modules use CPU.
Re-FLeX Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 170	Posted - 2013.03.13 23:54:00 - [37] - Quote Sloth9230 wrote: Re-FLeX wrote: Whats the use of the 3 Equipment slots on a scout or 2 on the VK0 when you don't even get to use them due to the lack of CPU? Maybe you're not supposed to be able to use them all, just have to option to use them? Either use a low module or equipment. Whats wrong with any suit requiring CPU modules anyway? If nobody needed them then they would be pointless. Just be glad that they don't also use PG like PG modules use CPU. Assault and Logi's can fit everything they desire (sometimes they run out of PG but that's a whole nother story) yet scouts have to use a CPU chip in order to fit what they want?! (even after maxing out all cpu reducing skills) hell nooooo. they have a 3H-3L setup and you're saying i need to waste a low slot just so i can be effective?
Re-FLeX Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 170	Posted - 2013.03.13 23:57:00 - [38] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Icy Tiger wrote: Yes, and the massive penalty is not being able to stand still and aim. Even a militia guy can completely take me out if I stand still for 2+ seconds in my A-series suit. As I said, scouts need more scout options because the shotgun is really the only weapon worth using with them right now. Why you would ever put an AR on a scout to begin with is beyond me. Scouts speed tank, it's what we do. Please gtfo with your Shotgun-scout combo, im sick and tired of hearing that... if you haven't run into calamity jane or annie oakley yet i would suggest you go watch that nice video of the finals (PFBHZ vs STB) Assault shotgun is 10x more viable then shotgun scout
Knarf Black Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 462	Posted - 2013.03.13 23:58:00 - [39] - Quote You'd be surprised at what you can fit with passive skills helping out, but they will need a buff if sensors and dampeners don't become more important in future builds.
Re-FLeX Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 171	Posted - 2013.03.13 23:59:00 - [40] - Quote DJINN Marauder wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Icy Tiger wrote: Yes, and the massive penalty is not being able to stand still and aim. Even a militia guy can completely take me out if I stand still for 2+ seconds in my A-series suit. As I said, scouts need more scout options because the shotgun is really the only weapon worth using with them right now. Why you would ever put an AR on a scout to begin with is beyond me. Scouts speed tank, it's what we do. Don't disregard the AR scout so fast. They are actually quite good. Nope... assault is still 10x better, if you see a Scout AR that is doing good i would bet 500$ on it that he would do better in an assault suit

Re-FLeX Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 171	Posted - 2013.03.13 23:59:00 - [41] - Quote Knarf Black wrote: You'd be surprised at what you can fit with passive skills helping out, but they will need a buff if sensors and dampeners don't become more important in future builds. Be surprised at what i cannot fit you mean? I already calculated.... it's really dissapointing.
DJINN Marauder Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 316	Posted - 2013.03.14 00:03:00 - [42] - Quote Re-FLeX wrote: DJINN Marauder wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Icy Tiger wrote: Yes, and the massive penalty is not being able to stand still and aim. Even a militia guy can completely take me out if I stand still for 2+ seconds in my A-series suit. As I said, scouts need more scout options because the shotgun is really the only weapon worth using with them right now. Why you would ever put an AR on a scout to begin with is beyond me. Scouts speed tank, it's what we do. Don't disregard the AR scout so fast. They are actually quite good. Nope... assault is still 10x better, if you see a Scout AR that is doing good i would bet 500$ on it that he would do better in an assault suit Tis is true. Assault AR is 10x better. However that doesn't mean the scout is bad at it. I believe scout AR is pretty good. However an equally skilled player will be 10x better in an Assault.
Sloth9230 Reaper Galactic 440	Posted - 2013.03.14 00:11:00 - [43] - Quote Re-FLeX wrote: Sloth9230 wrote: Re-FLeX wrote: Whats the use of the 3 Equipment slots on a scout or 2 on the VK0 when you don't even get to use them due to the lack of CPU? Maybe you're not supposed to be able to use them all, just have to option to use them? Either use a low module or equipment. Whats wrong with any suit requiring CPU modules anyway? If nobody needed them then they would be pointless. Just be glad that they don't also use PG like PG modules use CPU. Assault and Logi's can fit everything they desire (sometimes they run out of PG but that's a whole nother story) yet scouts have to use a CPU chip in order to fit what they want?! (even after maxing out all cpu reducing skills) hell nooooo. they have a 3H-3L setup and you're saying i need to waste a low slot just so i can be effective? I don't really use scouts so I'm a bit ignorant on them, but what low modules do they need that they can't "sacrifice" a slot for a CPU module. I also doubt assault/ logis can fit EVERYTHING they want. I'm using a type two and I need a cpu upgrade just to fit a enhanced/complex damage mod and I definitely can't equip a second complex shield extender because I don't have the PG for it. So no, running out of PG isn't a whole nother story. Edit: a way to test possible fittings would really come in handy right now
DJINN Marauder Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 316	Posted - 2013.03.14 00:16:00 - [44] - Quote Sloth9230 wrote: I don't really use scouts so I'm a bit ignorant on them, but what low modules do they need that they can't "sacrifice" a slot for a CPU module. I also doubt assault/ logis can fit EVERYTHING they want. I'm using a type two and I need a cpu upgrade just to fit a enhanced/complex damage mod and I definitely can't equip a second complex shield extender because I don't have the PG for it. So no, running out of PG isn't a whole nother story. A kinetic catalyzer/cardiac stimulator mod. You don't really NEED it but its something scouts like to have.
Re-FLeX Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 173	Posted - 2013.03.14 00:20:00 - [45] - Quote Sloth9230 wrote: Re-FLeX wrote: Sloth9230 wrote: Re-FLeX wrote: Whats the use of the 3 Equipment slots on a scout or 2 on the VK0 when you don't even get to use them due to the lack of CPU? Maybe you're not supposed to be able to use them all, just have to option to use them? Either use a low module or equipment. Whats wrong with any suit requiring CPU modules anyway? If nobody needed them then they would be pointless. Just be glad that they don't also use PG like PG modules use CPU. Assault and Logi's can fit everything they desire (sometimes they run out of PG but that's a whole nother story) yet scouts have to use a CPU chip in order to fit what they want?! (even after maxing out all cpu reducing skills) hell nooooo. they have a 3H-3L setup and you're saying i need to waste a low slot just so i can be effective? I don't really use scouts so I'm a bit ignorant on them, but what low modules do they need that they can't "sacrifice" a slot for a CPU module. I also doubt assault/ logis can fit EVERYTHING they want. I'm using a type two and I need a cpu upgrade just to fit a enhanced/complex damage mod and I definitely can't equip a second complex shield extender because I don't have the PG for it. So no, running out of PG isn't a whole nother story. Edit: a way to test possible fittings would really come in handy right now Unfortunately i'm talking about high end gear wich comes later on, in the long run (or even in the short run) you can fit everything on an assault suit or a logistics suit. but on a scout suit you will never and i mean never fit it if you don't use a CPU extender....
Re-FLeX Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 173	Posted - 2013.03.14 00:21:00 - [46] - Quote Sloth9230 wrote: Edit: a way to test possible fittings would really come in handy right now There's no need you can pretty much calculate everything...
Sloth9230 Reaper Galactic 440	Posted - 2013.03.14 00:24:00 - [47] - Quote Re-FLeX wrote: Sloth9230 wrote: Edit: a way to test possible fittings would really come in handy right now There's no need you can pretty much calculate everything... No, I mean someone should design an App, not that I want it as an in game feature.
Regular Trooper Rebelles A Quebec 5	Posted - 2013.03.14 00:33:00 - [48] - Quote Re-FLeX wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Icy Tiger wrote: Yes, and the massive penalty is not being able to stand still and aim. Even a militia guy can completely take me out if I stand still for 2+ seconds in my A-series suit. As I said, scouts need more scout options because the shotgun is really the only weapon worth using with them right now. Why you would ever put an AR on a scout to begin with is beyond me. Scouts speed tank, it's what we do. Please gtfo with your Shotgun-scout combo, im sick and tired of hearing that... if you haven't run into calamity jane or annie oakley yet i would suggest you go watch that nice video of the finals (PFBHZ vs STB) Assault shotgun is 10x more viable then shotgun scout +1
Gunner Nightingale Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 348	Posted - 2013.03.14 01:05:00 - [49] - Quote After seeing the numbers at the top end i again reiterate this is what happens when you try to balance a game around the bottom end instead of the top end. Now the scout took a huge nerf in movement speed if it was at that level i could honestly say that these numbers are fair. But given that nerf CCP never buffed the scout in other areas to compensate and balance out the suit. The scout suit defnitiely should get a base bump in CPU, at best it should be at least the base level of heavies thought honestly given all its drawabacks it should be closer to assualt basse given that its big bonus at proto is more equipment slots as opposed to module slots and equipment like the assualt.
ZiwZih The Tritan Industries 78	Posted - 2013.03.14 03:50:00 - [50] - Quote Sometimes I pimp my blue pills to Complex and pretend I will have all that surplus power one day. When I wake up I say -- at least I am pretty and can jump high. Goat of Dover wrote: Also Nova Knives are a great side arm you move like lightning. But you have to know how to play cover with only one real weapon. Which is something you should learn as a scout anyway. lol Nope mate, fake. Did the tests, you do not run faster -- it's just the animation playing with your mind.

Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1676	Posted - 2013.03.14 04:01:00 - [51] - Quote [Fast Ninja] Prototype Scout vk.0 2x complex sidearm damage modifiers 1x militia bpo shield extender 3x basic kinetic catalyzers 1x standard nova knives 1x flux grenades 1x militia bpo nanite injector [Stealth Ninja] Prototype Scout vk.0 2x complex sidearm damage modifiers 3x enhanced profile dampeners * 1x standard nova knives 1x militia bpo drop uplink No CPU upgrade module needed. Also, the melee-sprint glitch for nova knives is still limiting because it is still cumbersome when you have to constantly repeat the process in the middle of a 1v1 dance of death. On top of that, every attempt to glitch while trying to hold a sprint drains stamina. Making sprinting-charging a feature will actually eliminate this distraction and save stamina. EDIT: * - Recently upgraded to enhanced profile dampeners. Unfortunately I had to sacrifice the shield extender but since I'm more stealthy that doesn't matter.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1676	Posted - 2013.03.14 04:10:00 - [52] - Quote Re-FLeX wrote: Unfortunately i'm talking about high end gear wich comes later on, in the long run (or even in the short run) you can fit everything on an assault suit or a logistics suit. but on a scout suit you will never and i mean never fit it if you don't use a CPU extender.... Did you account for skill books that boost CPU output and reduces CPU demand? PS: What formula did you use? Did you use this formula? http://dustsearch.com/thread/57922/page/1#9
DUST Fiend Immobile Infantry 2025	Posted - 2013.03.14 04:16:00 - [53] - Quote Re-FLeX wrote: Please gtfo with your Shotgun-scout combo, im sick and tired of hearing that... if you haven't run into calamity jane or annie oakley yet i would suggest you go watch that nice video of the finals (PFBHZ vs STB) Assault shotgun is 10x more viable then shotgun scout Since you say so, it's gotta be true. All those tears have to be for a reason.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1677	Posted - 2013.03.14 04:23:00 - [54] - Quote Sloth9230 wrote: Re-FLeX wrote: Whats the use of the 3 Equipment slots on a scout or 2 on the VK0 when you don't even get to use them due to the lack of CPU? Maybe you're not supposed to be able to use them all, just have to option to use them? Either use a low module or equipment. Whats wrong with any suit requiring CPU modules anyway? If nobody needed them then they would be pointless. Just be glad that they don't also use PG like PG modules use CPU. The only time I ever need CPU upgrades is when I need to fit 3x complex damage mods for the militia swarm launcher plus nanohives.
DUST Fiend Immobile Infantry 2025	Posted - 2013.03.14 04:25:00 - [55] - Quote The more I read his threads on this subject, the more I'm convinced that he just has no idea how to fit anything
Daxxis KANNAH Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 2	Posted - 2013.03.14 16:19:00 - [56] - Quote But I thought the whole mechanic of this game is making choices and tradeoffs Its not you get all what you want in your minds eye setup. You may have to make a sacrifice to gain something. You can just make an alt dropsuit setup and use depending on situation. You say Assualt and Logis get all that they desire but are you sure ? or you just claim its possible.
Zahle Undt The Tritan Industries 39	Posted - 2013.03.14 16:29:00 - [57] - Quote Re-FLeX wrote: DJINN Marauder wrote: Exactly what fit did you want on it? For my proto scout.. All i would want is 3 complex shields, 1 plate, 1 Repper, and a CPU upgrade with a Gek and a nanohive That's exactly what i don't want Because of the lack of CPU and the cost of Dropsuit modules (CPU wise) there are literally no unique builds you can make. here a comparison for you guys Scout VK0 - CPU 230 - Max CPU 288 - Scout VK1 - CPU 250 - Max CPU 312 - Assault VK0 - CPU 300 - Max CPU 375 - Assault VK1 - CPU 330 - Max CPU 412 - Heavy VK0 - CPU 270 - Max CPU 337 - Heavy VK1 - CPU 270 - Max CPU 337 - Logistics VK0 - CPU 390 - Max CPU 488 - Logistics VK1 - CPU 390 - Max CPU 488 - Whats the use of the 3 Equipment slots on a scout or 2 on the VK0 when you don't even get to use them due to the lack of CPU? So you want all the speed and agility a scout suit has, but no drawbacks? You know, I would love to have a sidearm on my logi suit, but the point is that each suit has strengths and gasps drawbacks. You gotta pay for what you get, if you don't like the drawbacks, spec into something else! But for KITTEN"S sake everyone in this Beta needs to quit fricken crying that their preferred suit, tank, weapon, whatever isn't exactly what they want nor can destroy everything in every situation. This "community" is a bunch of whiney brats and it is tiring.
Deluxe Edition Like a Boss. 56	Posted - 2013.03.15 04:23:00 - [58] - Quote Moejoe Omnipotent.[/quote wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXFUVOlNrmw ^this
XeroTheBigBoss Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz 46	Posted - 2013.03.15 10:29:00 - [59] - Quote Re-FLeX wrote: They lack CPU, Every single fit i calculated with the proto suit in mind couldn't handle it without a CPU chip, because of the lack of CPU. even with every cpu reduction skill in mind to lvl 5 (this includes shield enhancements, weapon upgrade, upgrade prof., circuitry, nanocircuitry) The suit i want will never fit onto the proto suit... I'm really concerned for future players who will spec into the Gallante scout and find out after spending 2.4 mill SP on the suit itself that it is complete and utter ''Kitten''. And lets not talk about the other major drawbacks this suit has, like wtf CCP? Now don't come in here and be like ''LOL SHOTGUNSCOUT or LOLSNIPERSCOUT UNDETECTABLE'' because those arguments are just invalid seeing as a assault can do these two things 10x better. Finally somebody who knows WTF they are talking about. I am sick and tired of having noobs who have never played the suit or played it a couple of times say how we are literally stealth and can't be detected or any other crappy fantasy advantage we supposedly have.
rpastry Carbon 7 35	Posted - 2013.03.15 11:40:00 - [60] - Quote crappy fantasy advantage? watch the youtube vid, you don't get hit by bullets, thats the advantage. I see it and I hear it from squad mates, many corps, every day. L2AIM is going to be the reply or WE GOT SKILLZ. but this isnt hopping strafing scouts, this isnt sneaking point blanking from behind scouts, this isn't people spraying and praying in the general direction of a scout, it is scouts charging head on dead center in the reticle and bullets doing sweet FA. It's bullshit. And you want a BUFF. lol.



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