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Orenji Jiji
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
14
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Posted - 2013.03.15 12:00:00 -
[61] - Quote
rpastry wrote:crappy fantasy advantage? watch the youtube vid, you don't get hit by bullets, thats the advantage. I see it and I hear it from squad mates, many corps, every day.
Yeah, two builds ago. Now scouts are bullet sponges and one video does not prove anything, especially if it's against Re-Flex.
rpastry wrote:but this isnt hopping strafing scouts, this isnt sneaking point blanking from behind scouts, this isn't people spraying and praying in the general direction of a scout, it is scouts charging head on dead center in the reticle and bullets doing sweet FA.
It's bullshit.
And you want a BUFF.
lol.
Try it yourself. Then get back and apologize.
Your stance is bullshit. Everybody would play using model immune to bullets and somehow it's only diehards and noobs now, because scouts never recovered from the nerf, even after hit detection got better.
Assaults strafe and hop the same, KBM players will kill you with awesome "vibrating" strafe that you can not hit from AR. Everybody can sneak from behind, even heavies, because scanning is borked. The issue here is that Scouts are paper thin & proto lineup is seriously underpowered...
... but yeah, "Scouts are totally OK and well", says Mr Heavy player. |
XeroTheBigBoss
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
46
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Posted - 2013.03.15 12:13:00 -
[62] - Quote
rpastry wrote:crappy fantasy advantage? watch the youtube vid, you don't get hit by bullets, thats the advantage. I see it and I hear it from squad mates, many corps, every day.
L2AIM is going to be the reply or WE GOT SKILLZ.
but this isnt hopping strafing scouts, this isnt sneaking point blanking from behind scouts, this isn't people spraying and praying in the general direction of a scout, it is scouts charging head on dead center in the reticle and bullets doing sweet FA.
It's bullshit.
And you want a BUFF.
lol.
Ever hear of this weird thing called LAG? Get good scrub we have no fantasy super speed advantage get good. |
rpastry
Carbon 7
35
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Posted - 2013.03.15 12:33:00 -
[63] - Quote
Orenji Jiji wrote:
Try it yourself. Then get back and apologize.
OK you want to lend me your account for the weekend?
or did you want me to field some dragonfly build with weps and modules I haven't skilled in to, then be shocked when I get butchered by a 5mil SP AR dude?
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Technical-Support
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
35
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Posted - 2013.03.15 12:36:00 -
[64] - Quote
rpastry wrote:Orenji Jiji wrote:
Try it yourself. Then get back and apologize.
OK you want to lend me your account for the weekend? or did you want me to field some dragonfly build with weps and modules I haven't skilled in to, then be shocked when I get butchered by a 5mil SP AR dude?
You're not even making sense.... |
Blamejudg3s KEQ
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
3
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Posted - 2013.03.15 12:43:00 -
[65] - Quote
Moejoe Omnipotent wrote:Re-FLeX wrote:They lack CPU,
Every single fit i calculated with the proto suit in mind couldn't handle it because of the lack of CPU.
even with every cpu reduction skill in mind to lvl 5 (this includes shield enhancements, weapon upgrade, upgrade prof., circuitry, nanocircuitry) The suit i want will never fit onto the proto suit...
I'm really concerned for future players who will spec into the Gallante scout and find out after spending 2.4 mill SP on the suit itself that it is complete and utter ''Kitten''.
And lets not talk about the other major drawbacks this suit has, like wtf CCP?
Now don't come in here and be like ''LOL SHOTGUNSCOUT or LOLSNIPERSCOUT UNDETECTABLE'' because those arguments are just invalid seeing as a assault can do these two things 10x better. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXFUVOlNrmw
That is everyone with a keyboard |
Guinevere Bravo
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
141
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Posted - 2013.03.15 14:40:00 -
[66] - Quote
Lack of light weapon and side arm weapon upgrade skill is the problem. Get back to me when you have profiency 5 in both, ofcoarse the scout suit is hard to fit, theres nothing of it. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
2043
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Posted - 2013.03.15 20:38:00 -
[67] - Quote
I've fired 6 shots into an Assault at point-blank with my Militia Shotgun earlier today (I was on my "Kamikaze Free Hugs" fitting after setting an Uplink). This is with Shotgun Ops at level 3, no Prof (obviously), no Damage mods, and Weaponry level 5.
Shot 1: About 70% of target's shields Shot 2: Another 20% of shields. Shot 3: Nothing. Shot 4: Nothing. Shot 5: Nothing. Shields start to regenerate. Shot 6: Yep... nothing.
What was he doing? Walking in a straight line directly away from me while I walked (faster) following him and was close enough that meleeing him twice instead of reloading got me the kill. It's not just Scouts that sometimes have kittened up hit detection. I've unloaded on a Heavy and had less than half my shots connect at point-blank for no apparent reason before too.
And while I've previously been arguing that the Scout isn't underpowered, I may have been making it sound like the opposite is true. It definitely isn't. They might be slightly - SLIGHTLY underpowered. But it's by such a small margin that it really shouldn't matter. You can't take another suit down in a head-on engagement, but you CAN control the fight so you don't have to.
Lets look at the usual argument. Scout vs. Assault. Scouts have a VERY small (<10%) speed advantage. They have an almost as small (approx 10%) Profile advantage. They have a SIGNIFICANT advantage to scanning (almost 70% wider radius and approx 20% better precision).
Most people downplay the Profile/Precision advantages, but the fact is that with the scanning stats on an Assault, that Profile advantage is bigger than it looks. Part of the problem is that most people don't realise the Scout's has a greater advantage in Precision than Profile against Assaults.
Looking at the Profile stats without context doesn't tell you anything. You NEED to be looking at the Scan Profile of the suits vs. each other's Scan Precision.
Scouts can pick enemies up - WITHOUT line of sight - at nearly double the range of an Assault. They can also detect targets with a significantly lower Scan Profile than an Assault can (excepting, of course, when the target is in line of sight and you're aiming right at them).
A stock-standard Scout with no scanning-related skills or mods can pick up a stock-standard Scout with no profile-related skills or mods. A stock-standard Assault with no scanning-related skills or mods CAN'T pick up a stock-standard Assault with no profile skills or mods. Assaults have a lower Scan Profile than their own Scan Precision. If you don't buff your scanning abilities (with skills or mods) on a Scout, then other Scouts who lower their Profile will be invisible even to you, but if you appropriately fit your Scout to detect people, then they can't hide. If you don't buff your Scanning abilities (with skills or mods) on an Assault, EVERYTHING but a Heavy will be invisible unless you have them in sight. That includes non-stealth buffed Logis, Assaults and Scouts, and even Heavies with a few points in Dropsuit Command or Profile Dampening. Also, you won't see anyone more than 15m away unless they're in front of you, even if they're in that huge, Heavy suit with no stealth skills trained.
Logis are better able to be fitted as scanning suits than Assaults, and Scouts can do the job better than Logis. Even a Heavy isn't disadvantaged against its own kind the way Assaults are. Logis have equal Profile and Precision stats, while Heavies have a lower (which is better) Precision stat.
If you can play that advantage up effectively, it's a major benefit to the Scout, but most people don't invest in the skills or fittings to make the most of it. |
Orenji Jiji
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
16
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Posted - 2013.03.20 14:20:00 -
[68] - Quote
rpastry wrote:Orenji Jiji wrote:
Try it yourself. Then get back and apologize.
OK you want to lend me your account for the weekend? or did you want me to field some dragonfly build with weps and modules I haven't skilled in to, then be shocked when I get butchered by a 5mil SP AR dude? I thought you said:
Quote:it is scouts charging head on dead center in the reticle and bullets doing sweet FA.
Dragonfly is a Scout suit, so you should still be immune to bullets, right? Just stop the BS. My B-series is as easy to hit as my Dragonfly. This is why I still keep my Dragonfly build as favorite (0 ISK total cost). Guy who put everything in AR and can aim will get me down no matter what I wear if I charge head-on.
I hear that playing on DS3 is my problem, but hell. If I wanted to use KBM I'd play on a PC. |
2-Ton Twenty-One
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
329
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Posted - 2013.03.20 15:02:00 -
[69] - Quote
Heavy proto needs a fix before scouts do. |
Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
1782
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 03:59:00 -
[70] - Quote
Pardon me for necroing this thread for a bit but I got a point to make here.
After doing my research regarding fitting scout suits (particularly the prototype level one) I have come to the conclusion that there is one fit that can manage having all high and low slots including the primary fitted with complex and prototype without the need for the CPU or PG upgrade.
Coincidentally, this fit happens to favor a particular profession that most folks here seem to dismiss as wasteful or useless. Can you guess what it is?
Scout vk.1 3x complex sidearm damage modifiers 3x complex kinetic catalyzers 1x Ishukone Nova Knife
Because the profession doesn't utilize the equipment slots so often and the grenades are seldom used in this profession, those extra slots are excluded. But here is the thing. You need level 5 in all of the following skills for this to fit.
Sidearm Weapon Upgrade Sidearm Weapon Upgrade Proficciency Circuitry Cmbat Engineering
It will be a very tight fit but the suit will work as intended especially if you have profile dampening skills maxed out. And if the point of this thread is that there is no way of making a good scout suit without needing a CPU upgrade module, then it looks like that myth is busted.
Ps: The math I used is posted on my diaries. |
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2100 Angels
The Southern Legion
24
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Posted - 2013.03.26 04:19:00 -
[71] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Pardon me for necroing this thread for a bit but I got a point to make here.
After doing my research regarding fitting scout suits (particularly the prototype level one) I have come to the conclusion that there is one fit that can manage having all high and low slots including the primary fitted with complex and prototype without the need for the CPU or PG upgrade.
Coincidentally, this fit happens to favor a particular profession that most folks here seem to dismiss as wasteful or useless. Can you guess what it is?
Scout vk.1 3x complex sidearm damage modifiers 3x complex kinetic catalyzers 1x Ishukone Nova Knife
Because the profession doesn't utilize the equipment slots so often and the grenades are seldom used in this profession, those extra slots are excluded. But here is the thing. You need level 5 in all of the following skills for this to fit.
Sidearm Weapon Upgrade Sidearm Weapon Upgrade Proficciency Circuitry Cmbat Engineering
It will be a very tight fit but the suit will work as intended especially if you have profile dampening skills maxed out. And if the point of this thread is that there is no way of making a good scout suit without needing a CPU upgrade module, then it looks like that myth is busted.
Ps: The math I used is posted on my diaries.
Interesting fit you have there.... looks mighty squishy though. lets hope no one sees you coming |
XeroTheBigBoss
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
62
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Posted - 2013.03.26 04:21:00 -
[72] - Quote
Re-FLeX wrote:They lack CPU,
Every single fit i calculated with the proto suit in mind couldn't handle it without a CPU chip, because of the lack of CPU.
even with every cpu reduction skill in mind to lvl 5 (this includes shield enhancements, weapon upgrade, upgrade prof., circuitry, nanocircuitry) The suit i want will never fit onto the proto suit...
I'm really concerned for future players who will spec into the Gallante scout and find out after spending 2.4 mill SP on the suit itself that it is complete and utter ''Kitten''.
And lets not talk about the other major drawbacks this suit has, like wtf CCP?
Now don't come in here and be like ''LOL SHOTGUNSCOUT or LOLSNIPERSCOUT UNDETECTABLE'' because those arguments are just invalid seeing as a assault can do these two things 10x better.
Finally a intelligent person.... I agree 100% |
Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
1783
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 05:02:00 -
[73] - Quote
2100 Angels wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:Pardon me for necroing this thread for a bit but I got a point to make here.
After doing my research regarding fitting scout suits (particularly the prototype level one) I have come to the conclusion that there is one fit that can manage having all high and low slots including the primary fitted with complex and prototype without the need for the CPU or PG upgrade.
Coincidentally, this fit happens to favor a particular profession that most folks here seem to dismiss as wasteful or useless. Can you guess what it is?
Scout vk.1 3x complex sidearm damage modifiers 3x complex kinetic catalyzers 1x Ishukone Nova Knife
Because the profession doesn't utilize the equipment slots so often and the grenades are seldom used in this profession, those extra slots are excluded. But here is the thing. You need level 5 in all of the following skills for this to fit.
Sidearm Weapon Upgrade Sidearm Weapon Upgrade Proficciency Circuitry Cmbat Engineering
It will be a very tight fit but the suit will work as intended especially if you have profile dampening skills maxed out. And if the point of this thread is that there is no way of making a good scout suit without needing a CPU upgrade module, then it looks like that myth is busted.
Ps: The math I used is posted on my diaries. Interesting fit you have there.... looks mighty squishy though. lets hope no one sees you coming
In all honesty here, the scout suit was never primarily intended to act like an assault suit and the fit I have here fully utilizes pure speed (10.15m/s) as a means of speed tanking (think Dramiel orbiting a Megathron).
Currently I only have a standard nova knife and only able to use enhanced kinetic catalyzers but there have been occasions where I have succeeded in standing toe to toe with heavies. With just these basic things and I have been able to evade red line encampments while I hacked objectives that were extremely close to the enemy's base.
But again, the all-proto-all-complex fit I posted above is the only practical fit I can find. The OP is correct that for any other profession, the CPU upgrade module is needed for this suit. Of course, this is all assuming CCP doesn't change the CPU/PG of the suit during the next update. |
Dalton Smithe
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
74
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Posted - 2013.03.26 05:07:00 -
[74] - Quote
Ignoble Son wrote:Moejoe Omnipotent wrote:Re-FLeX wrote:They lack CPU,
Every single fit i calculated with the proto suit in mind couldn't handle it because of the lack of CPU.
even with every cpu reduction skill in mind to lvl 5 (this includes shield enhancements, weapon upgrade, upgrade prof., circuitry, nanocircuitry) The suit i want will never fit onto the proto suit...
I'm really concerned for future players who will spec into the Gallante scout and find out after spending 2.4 mill SP on the suit itself that it is complete and utter ''Kitten''.
And lets not talk about the other major drawbacks this suit has, like wtf CCP?
Now don't come in here and be like ''LOL SHOTGUNSCOUT or LOLSNIPERSCOUT UNDETECTABLE'' because those arguments are just invalid seeing as a assault can do these two things 10x better. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXFUVOlNrmw Dude was actually taken out by a shotgun scout (mostly of camera) to his left.
That wasn't the point of the video....the scout took so many hits and his shields did not go down....that is what he was pointing out... |
2100 Angels
The Southern Legion
24
|
Posted - 2013.03.26 05:50:00 -
[75] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:2100 Angels wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:Pardon me for necroing this thread for a bit but I got a point to make here.
After doing my research regarding fitting scout suits (particularly the prototype level one) I have come to the conclusion that there is one fit that can manage having all high and low slots including the primary fitted with complex and prototype without the need for the CPU or PG upgrade.
Coincidentally, this fit happens to favor a particular profession that most folks here seem to dismiss as wasteful or useless. Can you guess what it is?
Scout vk.1 3x complex sidearm damage modifiers 3x complex kinetic catalyzers 1x Ishukone Nova Knife
Because the profession doesn't utilize the equipment slots so often and the grenades are seldom used in this profession, those extra slots are excluded. But here is the thing. You need level 5 in all of the following skills for this to fit.
Sidearm Weapon Upgrade Sidearm Weapon Upgrade Proficciency Circuitry Cmbat Engineering
It will be a very tight fit but the suit will work as intended especially if you have profile dampening skills maxed out. And if the point of this thread is that there is no way of making a good scout suit without needing a CPU upgrade module, then it looks like that myth is busted.
Ps: The math I used is posted on my diaries. Interesting fit you have there.... looks mighty squishy though. lets hope no one sees you coming In all honesty here, the scout suit was never primarily intended to act like an assault suit and the fit I have here fully utilizes pure speed (10.15m/s) as a means of speed tanking (think Dramiel orbiting a Megathron). Currently I only have a standard nova knife and only able to use enhanced kinetic catalyzers but there have been occasions where I have succeeded in standing toe to toe with heavies. With just these basic things and I have been able to evade red line encampments while I hacked objectives that were extremely close to the enemy's base. But again, the all-proto-all-complex fit I posted above is the only practical fit I can find. The OP is correct that for any other profession, the CPU upgrade module is needed for this suit. Of course, this is all assuming CCP doesn't change the CPU/PG of the suit during the next update.
Right.. so you win the first head on encounter, then what? you die on the second because the first ate most your armour. I'd fit an armour rep in exchange for a catalyzer personally, just to enable the run away and heal tactic and give you some longer term survivability. Having said that, I've not yet had the chance to experiment with speed tanking so yours may be the superior fit, these are just my gut inklings |
PIMP MAC DADDY 2100374163
A.I.
44
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Posted - 2013.03.26 05:50:00 -
[76] - Quote
Re-FLeX wrote:DUST Fiend wrote:You always leave mobility out of the equation. No one can disengage and reposition like scouts can. Top end scouts and heavies both need tweaking, but they aren't as woefully underpowered as you seem to believe. Re-FLeX wrote: Their speed isn't some sort of significant advantage (only 8-10% over a Assault suit), Their reconnaissance aren't either (10% increase in both profile dampening and precision).
The only real advantage we get is a decreased hitbox and a faster recharge rate on the shields (No shield recharge delay since its still a 10s delay on depletion and only .8s faster on normal delay over a assault suit).
Now match those two advantages against the disadvantages (44.4% decreased shields, 31% decreased CPU, 1 less high slot, no sidearm if you want to use the VK1 (compared to assault suits) seems to me like the disadvantages faaaar outweigh the advantages the suit has at the moment
kP.S i don't believe it i know it, i've been running scout this entire build and i know the assault and logi suit, can do everything the scout suit can do 10x better. I'm leaving heavies out of the equation since they really have their own Perks and drawbacks Here's the problem with this. A scout is supposed to be a scout! Not like an assault that runs around the map all day flawlessly killing mercs. My point is, do what a scout is supposed to do and SCOUT! I'm sure that's not CCP's intentions for the scout drop suits. And if you really want it to be perfect WORK for it. For Ex.
.Light weapon upgrade Lvl 5 .Nano circuitry Lvl 5 .Combat engineering Lvl 5 .Circuitry Lvl 5
I have all this already & my scout Can hold a Douvolle, Complex shields, Etc. |
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