An assault suit effectively can tank way better than a heavy suit. This is due to the combination of the power of complex shield mods, superior amount of slots and the significantly smaller hitbox and mobility.

Now add to the fact that heavy suits are considerably more expensive, to the point that with a properly kitted type-II suit (complex mods, blueprint sidearm, no proto gun) you can't afford to die more than 3 or so times per game. Now, considering that the heavy suit primarily works close up it's quite easy to die that often and it really doesn't matter how many kills you get because they won't offset the fact that you're making a net loss each game.

Then for some reasons proto heavy suits are astronomically expensive where as the proto assault ones are not. On top of that they assault proto suits actually provide a useful boost where once again, the proto heavy suits do not.

So yeah, proto equivalents sucks, heavy suits are more expensive in general (in the case of proto, a LOT more), tank less and have less mobility.


The only advantage the heavy suit has is the ability to field the HMG and Forge Gun. Unless you're that oddball forge sniper who enjoys clicking pixels all day the Forge Gun is a situational weapon that's typically used for AV-work whenever a vehicle is deployed on the field, you don't need to be a specialized heavy to use it for this purpose.

As for the HMG, really, I believe the AR to be a superior weapon and even if you do think the HMG is better, I don't see how you could find it redeeming the suckage that is the Heavy suit.


Long story short, why play the heavy except for the cool factor and how it tears up bad and/or low SP players?

the funny thing is... you guys seem to have the impression that this game is a 1v1 kinda deal... might be that a proto assault dude is better than a proto heavy dude... but a proper ehp tanked heavy with good weapon skills and 2 capable logibros as support will absolutely murder everyone in cqc... and if them two logibros have proto reppers with two streams to support two heavies...

this is and should be first and foremost a team/squad focused game.

Edith: too stupid to spell

the funny thing is... you guys seem to have the impression that this game is a 1v1 kinda deal... might be that a proto assault dude is better than a proto heavy dude... but a proper ehp tanked heavy with good weapon skills and 2 capable logibros as support will absolutely murder everyone in cqc... and if them two logibros have proto reppers with two streams to support two heavies...

this is and should be first and foremost a team/squad focused game.

Edith: too stupid to spell

I enjoy these posts. Hopefully it helps people realise what many of us heavies have been saying forever:

The heavy class is DEFINITELY the strongest class for having 2mil SP or less, it is easily surpassed by assault for those with 4mil+ SP.
Type2 heavy w/std hmg > all other classes and weapons at similar levels.
Proto heavy w/proto hmg < proto scout and proto logi with proto weapons < proto assault with proto weapon.

So, I'm a bit of a dork. (We're all arguing over a videogame on the Internets, that shouldn't come as a surprise.) So I try to put numbers behind balance suggestions as best I can.

A Heavy-II kills an Assault-II in 0.78s.
An Assault-II kills a Heavy-II in 1.94s. 149% difference in Heavy's favor.

A proto Heavy kills a proto shield Assault in 0.86s.
A proto shield Assault kills a proto Heavy in 1.94s. 129% difference in Heavy's favor.

A Heavy-II (basic HMG) kills a proto shield Assault in 1.04s.
A proto shield Assault kills a Heavy-II (basic HMG) in 1.76s. 69% difference in Heavy's favor. (!)


Really, I think the balance between the two is the same all the way up the technology scale. The problem is really the price.

(That, and the AR boys are getting better and better at headshots, while most Heavies are still aiming for center mass like morons.)

Fix the price and you'll fix the problem. Though I still think the proto Heavy suit needs another slot, most likely low slot for balance.

This is the essence of it here, i think. I'd say my skillset is average - my type II heavy alt posts pretty good on the killboards, has a 50% higher kdr than my higher-skilled type II assault main, and runs at a profit.

But at a much lower profit: heavy has ~7 million isk, assault has ~ 40 million isk. If i step up one suit class, or even start running proto mods on the heavy, the profit margin will disappear. Incidentally, all the core and passive skills as well as fitting skills are just about maxxed at this point, so there's not much extra that i can squeeze out of that type II suit.

If this sounds like a complaint, it's not, it's just data. For a player with my skills, as an everyday suit, Type II is the end of the road for this heavy gunner. In contrast, i'm expecting the profit margin to get a little bit fatter when i step the assault up to type B.

A great player like maplecore could certainly afford to run a better suit and gear on a regular basis, but i doubt that even his skillset supports the everyday use of proto suits/gear.

And a last point: this is as it should be, i think. We were never supposed to be able to run elite gear on a regular basis, and seeing a proto suit of any class should give one cause for alarm. It should tell you immediately that whoever is in that suit is either lethal, desperate, or a fool. My opinion therefore is not that Heavy suits are too expensive, it's that Assault suits and Scout suit are too cheap.

Go assault...be a man :D

Show me the Assault suit that can hold a Forge Gun. How about HMG Assaults?

Tanking AND damage dealing. And Heavies can absorb more direct damage than Assaults in most cases. Even most well-fitted Assaults can be rapidly double-tapped by weapons that take upwards of 4 hits to kill a Heavy without any Logistics guys helping. With them, the Assault gets double-tapped, but the Heavy can potentially wade through a small army's worth of incoming fire when being repaired by a couple of Logibros.

Long story short, ...

Some problems with your calculations here.

1) what the hell do these guys have equipped and what are their modules?

2) the larger hitbox of the heavy, larger spread of the HMG and slower turn ratio of the heavy are not taken into account.

3) Spread becomes an even bigger issue with the HMG when you're aiming at the head.

4) Did you take armor and shield into account when calculating effective HP versus the weapon type?

LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL Says the leader of the clan that lags worse than the Japanese, who still can't properly use vehicles. That one-dimensional thinking will make you lose every time. Enjoy paying for my merc's vacations across the stars.

1) I can punch in just about any fit you like into the model. But for this same, I put damage mods on the Heavies, Shield extenders for the Assaults, armor rep in the low for each, and armor in any spare lows. Whip up any fits you like and I can run the numbers.

2) True enough. But is this any less true for a Heavy-II and Assault-II than it is for a proto heavy and a assault heavy?

I don't claim it's a perfect model, but the relative numbers are what matter. And they're relatively the same as the tech level goes up. If a Heavy-II beasts an Assault-II, a proto Heavy beats a proto Assault just as well. (A bit less, but still close.)

3) Aim for the shoulders and neck. Less bullets miss and people melt damn fast.

4) I took armor, shield, weapon damage type, HP modules, DPS and skill level into account.

I've been 3-shotted by the Kaalakiota. Pissed me off that a sniper rifle can do that much damage to a heavy suit, but when I notice a sniper shooting at the LAV I'm driving, whether shield or armor, it tickles it at best. I feel this is something CCP needs to address. It's blatantly obvious that snipers pummel everybody, but it's like pissing in the wind shooting at vehicles.

I ran a heavy for almost a year.... switched to assault LR andAR..... I die a lot less kill a lot more and actually enjoy it. Heavy proto is ****. But dont switch unless you have high core skills and enough SP to jump right into b series.

So, I'm a bit of a dork. (We're all arguing over a videogame on the Internets, that shouldn't come as a surprise.) So I try to put numbers behind balance suggestions as best I can.

A Heavy-II kills an Assault-II in 0.78s.
An Assault-II kills a Heavy-II in 1.94s. 149% difference in Heavy's favor.

A proto Heavy kills a proto shield Assault in 0.86s.
A proto shield Assault kills a proto Heavy in 1.94s. 129% difference in Heavy's favor.

A Heavy-II (basic HMG) kills a proto shield Assault in 1.04s.
A proto shield Assault kills a Heavy-II (basic HMG) in 1.76s. 69% difference in Heavy's favor. (!)


Really, I think the balance between the two is the same all the way up the technology scale. The problem is really the price.

(That, and the AR boys are getting better and better at headshots, while most Heavies are still aiming for center mass like morons.)

Fix the price and you'll fix the problem. Though I still think the proto Heavy suit needs another slot, most likely low slot for balance.

It seems like there will be assault dropsuits capable of using heavy weapons; happened in the recent "gathering forces" trailer, and in the new screenshots from the the visual effects devblog (look at the hands). If this happens, there won't be much reason for anyone to play as a heavy.

Pure speculation at this point (and monumentally stupid). Giving a Forge Gun to a class with speed and an equipment slot will ruin this game. Those weapons also have much higher PG and CPU requirements and were obviously meant only for the Heavy Dropsuit.

As to the OP's question I would say yea, you should probably switch. I ran heavy for a long time in the closed BETA and still go back to it every now and then for certain situations but the Assault Suit is just too versatile to not use. I know that's the way it should be but the discrepancy between the two is so large the Heavy class really doesn't seem like something meant to deploy on a regular basis.

Its more than speculation when there are videos and pictures from CCP showing assault dropsuits holding forge guns and HMGs. I hope it doesn't come, but its more than speculation when there is actual evidence to suggest it.

The problem is not the heavy suit: The problem is you think that heavies are supposed to be able to solo. Assaults have a somewhat easier time soloing, but a good Heavy with a support logistics will DESTROY everyone around them, if they are good.

Keyword, if.

(That, and the AR boys are getting better and better at headshots, while most Heavies are still aiming for center mass like morons.)

Heavies can't strafe. Obviously if both are standing still the heavy will win, but that's not a realistic situation.

The problem with aiming for the head is that most of your bullets will simply go around the target.

Better to aim for the upper chest/neck, as those will give you the highest number of hits and the recoil might carry a few rounds into the face.

Sure. But can an Assault Vk.1 strafe better than an Assault-II?

A Heavy Vk.1 stacks up to an Assault Vk.1 almost equally as well as a Heavy-II stacks up against an Assault-II. Nothing in the balance changes as the tech tiers go up.

You have to choose between believing that Heavies suck at every level, that they're OP at every level, or that they're fine at every level. But the relative balance between levels stays the same.

I think they're fine except for the ridiculous Vk.1 price, and that it'd be a bit more balanced if proto Heavy had another low slot.




Fellow fattie, we're on the same page.

I said the same in my last post in this thread.

Not exactly as an AR Assault user versus a heavy HMG user:
AR user skills are 2X versus HMG/forgegun 3X skills.

It means that with players of equal skill the AR user by default has FASTER access to higher skill levels.

The heavy player gets the shaft and the AR user gets the sp goldmine.

There's something too that but it's a short term advantage.

Does make me miss the old sights and my pistol only fit though...those were the days.

I've been 3-shotted by the Kaalakiota. Pissed me off that a sniper rifle can do that much damage to a heavy suit, but when I notice a sniper shooting at the LAV I'm driving, whether shield or armor, it tickles it at best. I feel this is something CCP needs to address. It's blatantly obvious that snipers pummel everybody, but it's like pissing in the wind shooting at vehicles.

If you look at the fitting screen it also appears that she is wearing an assault suit with 2 light weapon slots and a sidearm, 2 high slots, 2 low slots, and 2 equipment slots.

Since there is nothing like that in the game then the video is not evidence of anything except that the DEV's have things that we don't.