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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
KalOfTheRathi
Black Phoenix Mercenaries
576
|
Posted - 2013.08.21 03:36:00 -
[91] - Quote
I run as a Logi a large percentage of the time. Which does color my thinking but the idea that DS pilots would get 600-1200 WP for transporting anyone that simply gets in their DS is ... exploit heaven.
A team of six, with a DS sitting on the ground, ensures that the DS pilot will get the maximum WP. With proper placement no threat will be possible. Now, put two of them close to each other. Just run between them and the squad has 1200-2400 WP. Toss down some Hives, have everybody shoot their weapons when moving between the two and top of the leader boards, orbital strikes are just the beginnings of the rewards. It would be a great solution for Squad AFK. Squad chat, joking, running, shooting with an occasional OB as a gift. The Squad Leader would be able to top the leader boards with commissions and good results from the OBs.
AFB (Away From Battle) farming at its best.
Several of the proposals for WP generate much higher WP than even Squad Commissions. They max at 20%, anything more than that is much too much. The timed proposals are nearly impossible to solve from a programming standpoint, btw. The current SL command solution has a distance limit. I would suspect many Mercs will hesitate to gift WP to some random DS pilot, resulting in just avoiding using the flying death bricks anyway.
I don't know the WP limit method for Logi Bros. But something of that nature would have to be implemented as well. Otherwise DS pilots will always be at or near the top of the boards.
The proposals for DS weapons, countermeasures and such are beyond my response. While interesting my reply is based solely on WP.
I am beginning to see why DS WP rewards are a problem for the designers of this game. As a programmer the level of complexity for these proposal has already gone beyond difficult to create a solution for them ... as proposed. |
Alena Ventrallis
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
93
|
Posted - 2013.08.21 04:20:00 -
[92] - Quote
I like the idea of the countermeasures, but I would change the flares design. Have them able to redirect 2 rockets at standard, 3 at advanced, 4 at proto. This eliminates a standard launchers ability to hurt them, and significantly hinders advanced and proto swarms. adjust number of rockets affected as needed for balance. |
Bojo The Mighty
Zanzibar Concept
1520
|
Posted - 2013.08.21 04:56:00 -
[93] - Quote
Fix the turret "snap" bug!
it is very frustrating when you just aim down and you are snapped back up. This is a serious problem. |
Hunter Junko
Zanzibar Concept
129
|
Posted - 2013.08.21 07:46:00 -
[94] - Quote
KalOfTheRathi wrote:I run as a Logi a large percentage of the time. Which does color my thinking but the idea that DS pilots would get 600-1200 WP for transporting anyone that simply gets in their DS is ... exploit heaven.
A team of six, with a DS sitting on the ground, ensures that the DS pilot will get the maximum WP. With proper placement no threat will be possible. Now, put two of them close to each other. Just run between them and the squad has 1200-2400 WP. Toss down some Hives, have everybody shoot their weapons when moving between the two and top of the leader boards, orbital strikes are just the beginnings of the rewards. It would be a great solution for Squad AFK. Squad chat, joking, running, shooting with an occasional OB as a gift. The Squad Leader would be able to top the leader boards with commissions and good results from the OBs.
I am beginning to see why DS WP rewards are a problem for the designers of this game. As a programmer the level of complexity for these proposal has already gone beyond difficult to create a solution for them ... as proposed.
to counter your arguement: some of our WP concepts are made only as the idea, not by the numbers. as someone who is actively flying these "Metal Caskets" and as someone who has made my contributions to this thread, i can offer only my honest opinion:
"WP's, when implemented, should only be awarded in the sense that troops deployed from said Dropship are actively killing enemies, taking objectives and supporting their team within x amount of time they are given."
this means, once their boots hit the ground, the timer is ticking. when it runs out, it runs out; no deployment WP anymore for the pilots, except for his/her gunners. will there be a cooling phase? most likely, but as said before: its the idea that counts
random merc wrote:'now what if they hop out, do their thing and hop back in? wouldn't that be the same exploit?'
good question; under some circumstances, yes that would be exploiting. but this is a coordinated effort between the pilot and his cargo, using what they have to the best of their ability, and in essence what the game is about. plus, it'll be unlikely they'd want to try something like this again, unless their pilot is crazy and the cargo crazier , with the enemy knowing Dropships are there and pulling out the Cheap toys
plus this is simply ideas, suggestions and propositions. whatever numbers they decide to implement is their specialty, so relax a little. if things seem off, or things are out of hand/ not what we proposed, then we'll take action.
@ Alena: given the countermeasures, look in the OP, there are links for countermeasures voiced by different pilots. 'sides, there are more than one way to take down a DS, and it aint swarm launchers. as a pilot i'd have to be wary of missile launchers, Railguns, forge rounds, and Blaster installations. plus the occaisonal AV nade and the upcoming laser installations, when they arrive D:
nonetheless it is a good point you've made (at least for me) not sure what the others would say |
Vyzion Eyri
The Southern Legion
1215
|
Posted - 2013.08.21 10:24:00 -
[95] - Quote
KalOfTheRathi wrote:I run as a Logi a large percentage of the time. Which does color my thinking but the idea that DS pilots would get 600-1200 WP for transporting anyone that simply gets in their DS is ... exploit heaven.
My numbers may be a little high, but as Junko mentioned they are just numbers. We really are more focused on the how WP is implemented. How much is left up to CCP.
_
v1.1 -Added link to a thread on a problem with mCRUs (https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1043919#post1043919) into Features -Added disclaimer for WP systems that all numbers are arbitrary and have been used for the sake of explaining a system. |
KalOfTheRathi
Black Phoenix Mercenaries
576
|
Posted - 2013.08.21 11:26:00 -
[96] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:Fix the turret "snap" bug!
it is very frustrating when you just aim down and you are snapped back up. This is a serious problem. Sorry, Bojo. I don't know this one.
Would you mind taking the time to explain it to me?
Thanks in Advance. |
KalOfTheRathi
Black Phoenix Mercenaries
576
|
Posted - 2013.08.21 11:38:00 -
[97] - Quote
Hunter Junko wrote: -- snip quote of my post -- to counter your argument: some of our WP concepts are made only as the idea, not by the numbers. as someone who is actively flying these "Metal Caskets" and as someone who has made my contributions to this thread, i can offer only my honest opinion:
"WP's, when implemented, should only be awarded in the sense that troops deployed from said Dropship are actively killing enemies, taking objectives and supporting their team within x amount of time they are given."
this means, once their boots hit the ground, the timer is ticking. when it runs out, it runs out; no deployment WP anymore for the pilots, except for his/her gunners. will there be a cooling phase? most likely, but as said before: its the idea that counts Thanks for clearing that up.
However, as a programmer I am saying this has a bucket of bugs just waiting to be coded. The current network/server architecture routinely loses track of who is doing what to whom so adding the requirement to Track Elapsed Time is a concern for an old coder like myself.
So, to clarify what I am saying here is this is Not Easy Coding 101. Conceptually I would say it is, but given the current condition of the code base ... not so much. If this was running on a PC than the answer would be different.
I Do like your ideas and updating the fact that WP amounts are just working numbers is appreciated.
Before they throttled WP for Logi functions I was consistently in the top 3-5. Personally I believe they throttled it too much but that is how they usually react. Overreaction is their first response, which is why Mobile CRUs give no WP today. |
Bojo The Mighty
Zanzibar Concept
1527
|
Posted - 2013.08.21 16:24:00 -
[98] - Quote
KalOfTheRathi wrote:Bojo The Mighty wrote:Fix the turret "snap" bug! it is very frustrating when you just aim down and you are snapped back up. This is a serious problem. Sorry, Bojo. I don't know this one. Would you mind taking the time to explain it to me? Thanks in Advance. When you are the door gunner of a dropship, and you point your turret down and forward towards the nose, if the pilot turns upward at all the turret is "snapped" back upward towards the horizontal median instantly. Basically it means that the whole bottom left / right corner is unavailable to aim in. So many lost kills because of this bug. |
Ren Ratner
Infinite Raiders
70
|
Posted - 2013.08.21 16:48:00 -
[99] - Quote
+1 because Pilots need WP. |
Hunter Junko
Zanzibar Concept
131
|
Posted - 2013.08.22 01:30:00 -
[100] - Quote
KalOfTheRathi wrote:]Thanks for clearing that up.
However, as a programmer I am saying this has a bucket of bugs just waiting to be coded. The current network/server architecture routinely loses track of who is doing what to whom so adding the requirement to Track Elapsed Time is a concern for an old coder like myself.
So, to clarify what I am saying here is this is Not Easy Coding 101. Conceptually I would say it is, but given the current condition of the code base ... not so much. If this was running on a PC than the answer would be different.
I Do like your ideas and updating the fact that WP amounts are just working numbers is appreciated.
Before they throttled WP for Logi functions I was consistently in the top 3-5. Personally I believe they throttled it too much but that is how they usually react. Overreaction is their first response, which is why Mobile CRUs give no WP today. well, at least a decent conversation can be made :D
but a question: if you can input the code nessecary to make it happen, how would you go about accomplishing it? |
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martinofski
Rebelles A Quebec Orion Empire
310
|
Posted - 2013.08.22 02:22:00 -
[101] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:KalOfTheRathi wrote:Bojo The Mighty wrote:Fix the turret "snap" bug! it is very frustrating when you just aim down and you are snapped back up. This is a serious problem. Sorry, Bojo. I don't know this one. Would you mind taking the time to explain it to me? Thanks in Advance. When you are the door gunner of a dropship, and you point your turret down and forward towards the nose, if the pilot turns upward at all the turret is "snapped" back upward towards the horizontal median instantly. Basically it means that the whole bottom left / right corner is unavailable to aim in. So many lost kills because of this bug.
Yep I do notice this alot when I fly with squaded gunners, because I can hear them say it is really annoying. The turret self-align to the upper position. I pointed it out a while ago to the devs hoping it will be checked on, if not done already(fr 1.5 let say...)
On the WP for mCRU and people boarding. I am just not in for the idea to get WP for teammates getting in while landed (not using the mCRU). Definately hard to control the people exploiting this. I would just give more WP for the mCRU, like +20WP. In a skirmish, you wont see more than 40 peoples spawning in your DS, because sometimes you'll be at a wrong location and because you'll be full some other time. giving you a maximum of 800WP. They could even put a limit on there to the number of spawns. Like the droplinks. |
Bojo The Mighty
Zanzibar Concept
1549
|
Posted - 2013.08.22 20:05:00 -
[102] - Quote
martinofski wrote:They could even put a limit on there to the number of spawns. Like the droplinks. I'm sorry but mCRUs are expensive CPU/PG hogs and to make them limited use would make them worthless. I do not believe that direct WP for mCRU spawns is proper either but they should have WP in one form or another. |
Blade Masterson
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
15
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 00:48:00 -
[103] - Quote
Saw some where on the forums about aerial detection system. It would be nice if I could get a warning if I'm getting close to a tower or trolls trying to kamikaze me out of the sky. In addition the assault dropship should be more assult oriented. I.Ee remove the two side guns for an extra front turret of the same make and model, or a medium turret(since we are technically MAV'S) |
Blade Masterson
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
15
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 00:50:00 -
[104] - Quote
And to op a plethora of likes for a place of dropship equality |
martinofski
Rebelles A Quebec Orion Empire
310
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 02:29:00 -
[105] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:martinofski wrote:They could even put a limit on there to the number of spawns. Like the droplinks. I'm sorry but mCRUs are expensive CPU/PG hogs and to make them limited use would make them worthless. I do not believe that direct WP for mCRU spawns is proper either but they should have WP in one form or another.
I proposed limiting the spawn in the mCRU to make it simple, but preventing exploit in some way. Limit in spawn could be related to the total number of clones, so you can't have more than 40% of clones spawning from your DS, giving 1200 WP(60 clones) in skirmish and 400WP (20 spawns) in a 50 clone skirmish. In normal games, you would never hit the spawn quantity cap. But I agree it isn't the best solution.
Talking about the assault Dropship, I am not sure they need more WP than the one from killing actually. In case where they would release new proto modules or ADS, they would survive alot more and I can predict 3 man squadron being able the get 5000wp+ per match.
Looking at a possible rebalancing of AV vs vehicles in uprising 1.5, wp for spawning , turret fix, possibly proto dropships and such, I don't think we should get that much more WP seriously.
We don't get WP in a match from changing the game dynamic with a tank or a DS or a good squad work and that is the real issue. Those are team benefits. This all come to one solution. Give a WP, ISK and SP substantial bonus for the winning team. Making people want to win, not messing around. Forcing teamwork, better gameplay, investment. Then I would not care so much about all the individual WP gains like mCRU points on the DS.
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Vyzion Eyri
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
1420
|
Posted - 2013.10.11 06:34:00 -
[106] - Quote
Going to move the mCRU WP system here and link it to the OP. To all future posters, please feel free to leave links to great dropship threads. I will endeavour to read all of them and include them in the new DISCUSSION sections (see post #2) where relevant. If there are very good threads which talk about things I don't have in the original thread I'll make new sections. Turning this into a kind of compilation of threads with good ideas instead of a thread of compiled ideas. If that makes sense.
______________________________________________ OP Changelog v1.5 Moved WP suggestions to the bottom; not as important anymore Removed "WP" from the title, focusing thread on features and referencing other dropship threads brushed up features list, and put it into first post Added DISCUSSION sections, to replace further reading with newer threads removed Further Reading section Added "END OF MATCH STATS" feature
_______________________________________________
mCRU WP SYSTEM
The most popular WP system dropship pilots seem to want is probably also the most simple and elegant solution to WP famine we pilots have been experiencing.
Simply, we pilots should acquire Team Spawn WP (+25) per passenger which spawns into our dropship, through an mCRU.
I think however, we can do better than that. Whilst it may not be as simple to implement, I would prefer:
+20 Dropship* WP every time a passenger enters your dropship, whether through a spawn or not. Therefore, we aren't forcing assault dropships to have to fit mCRUs.
However, there should be a cap of 120WP per minute, so essentially if you transport a squad per minute, you'll never hit that cap. Therefore, in a 5 minute game, the maximum a dropship can earn is 600WP. 10 minutes, 1200. Pretty decent, I reckon. |
Hunter Junko
Zanzibar Concept
192
|
Posted - 2013.10.12 11:04:00 -
[107] - Quote
Bumping for The pilots |
Xaviah Reaper
Nyain San EoN.
123
|
Posted - 2013.10.12 11:41:00 -
[108] - Quote
Vyzion Eyri wrote: Flight instruments GÇô Dropship HUD: If we had attitude indicators, speed indicators (m/s?) and altimeters, things would become so much more fun, not to mention immersive. ItGÇÖd make precise maneuvers possible, eliminating much guesswork. A pilot has much to keep his mind on when flying, and some instruments to ease the task would be blissful. I wouldnGÇÖt mind if dropships werenGÇÖt given some bonus hp if we had flight instruments.
I agree. a more user appealing fisrt person view would be pretty awesome. similar to the inside of an LAV, but more the internals of a fighter jet. and when your ship touches ground, your first person view starts to flip switches to shut the power of the ship down. And a red flashing warning light alerts you of oncoming swarm missiles, and a blue flashing light shows forge gunner is in proximity.
Would also be amazing if a blueberry could beckon you down for pickup and would have a Rally point marker on himself, the same way a medic can see a downed ally with the medic symbol. This could make us far more useful in troop transport, as we can save clones from immediate death, and would be a serious game changer. If a player is picked up whilst being engaged by enemy then the DS pilot gets survivor WPs. few ideas i thought up reading that paragraph you posted there :) |
Meeko Fent
DUST University Ivy League
1136
|
Posted - 2013.10.12 15:10:00 -
[109] - Quote
There's a landing gear?
0.0 |
Den-tredje Baron
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
219
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Posted - 2013.10.12 15:31:00 -
[110] - Quote
Vyzion Eyri wrote:First Person View: Should be edited to reflect the cockpit of any basic aircraft; surroundings should be visible, perhaps through screens around the pilot, simulator-like. Less tunnel vision, wider viewing area. Possibility of rotating camera without rotating the dropship?
^^ COME ON !! ASSAULT DROPSHIPS NEEDS THIS !! I have never flown an ads actually i'm frecking bad at flying dropships but holy **** these things are underpowered. To start out in the small ads pilots flying in FPV (First person view for those who just got out of bed) really needs a way to turn the camera in both the x- and y-axis (up, down and left, right) without the entire dropship shiftes it's alignment. It's working fine with movement in the y-axis but pilots can't move the camera in the x-axis without turning the dropship.
Why not make it so that pilots can turn the camera in the x-axis to a maximum of +/- 25 degress. Turning further than this the dropship will begin to turn.
Or atleast this is from my backseat view a decent small upgrade to the FPV of a dropship.
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Xaviah Reaper
Nyain San EoN.
125
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Posted - 2013.10.12 17:14:00 -
[111] - Quote
why doesnt CCP look at everybody elses posts.. fair enough saying "this is good stuff", but thats all we see. no action |
Vyzion Eyri
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
1431
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Posted - 2013.10.12 21:00:00 -
[112] - Quote
Meeko Fent wrote:There's a landing gear?
0.0
Yep. Currently they extend when the dropship is hovering close to but not yet touching the ground, and they absorb quite a significant amount of impact damage upon landing. However they aren't very stable and coming down too quickly at an angle could still flip you over.
And Xaviah, I'll be linking your suggestion for first person view to my original post, 'cause I'm a believer of flying in first person view. So much more immersive, and if all the functionality you get from third-person was present in first-person, with added features like the ones you mentioned, I'd stay in first person permanently.
Added your input too, Baron. |
Hunter Junko
Zanzibar Concept
192
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Posted - 2013.10.12 22:50:00 -
[113] - Quote
Vyzion Eyri wrote:
And Xaviah, I'll be linking your suggestion for first person view to my original post, 'cause I'm a believer of flying in first person view. So much more immersive, and if all the functionality you get from third-person was present in first-person, with added features like the ones you mentioned, I'd stay in first person permanently.
fastest way to nerdgasm:
imagine a Dropship cockpit with the oculus rift >:] |
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