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Kelshaw Xu
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
72
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Posted - 2013.03.08 15:23:00 -
[31] - Quote
KalOfTheRathi wrote:Would one of you consistent DS pilots answer a question for me?
If you are the Squad Leader and set the Defense Order on your DS how do you do for WP over a Skirmish?
And if you have the resources to experiment, how does it work out if you have a Ground Merc be the Squad Leader and they set the Orders?
My experience is mostly with HAVs but Squad Orders can dramatically increase the WP rewards as you already know. The problem is, of course, the Driver (or in your case, Pilot) has little time available to deal with Squad Leader duties. The OP made me wonder if there was Any way to compensate for it. The Ground based SL for a HAV does fine as does the Driver. Since there seems to be little to no reward for the Pilots the same may not be true for a Drop Ship squad.
I will watch this thread if any of you should try it. Or post your results in the Training Ground would work as well.
It depends how long the pilot can loiter over the targets for the gunners. As a dropship pilot we are never the squad leaders, current mechanics only allow infantry to call in OS. And not sure i want to try and call in an OS while in the air.
What works best for the squad orders, is to place the order on a trooper jumping from the dropship. Targets in the defense order still add to the gunners WP. Dropships have to retreat often to avoid AV, no reason to have the order on us as we go to the rear to refresh active modules and rep. |
gbghg
L.O.T.I.S.
Legacy Rising
563
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Posted - 2013.03.08 22:16:00 -
[32] - Quote
hey vyzion I made an independent thread for people to expand on my suggestion so this one doesn't get cluttered
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=62798&find=unread |
Vyzion Eyri
The Southern Legion
237
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Posted - 2013.03.08 22:29:00 -
[33] - Quote
That might be the wrong link. |
gbghg
L.O.T.I.S.
Legacy Rising
565
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Posted - 2013.03.08 22:48:00 -
[34] - Quote
woops fixed now |
J Lav
Lost-Legion
30
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Posted - 2013.03.08 23:22:00 -
[35] - Quote
Not sure where this would go but,
Deployable equipment
- Supply and repair/shield regenerating nanohives that can be deployed from the air, like a supply drop. Pilot would receive +12 WP for resupply actions. These would be more substantial than the onces carried on foot, but are depleted unlike the resupply stations, and you cannot change fittings at them.
-Small Support structures like 20GJ turrets that could be deployed via a hanging claw sort of thing, +25 WP Assist for kills done with them. They'd require some skill to put in place.
Size
-Pertaining to dropshit size, I would like to see them reduced to a reasonable size to make them a smaller target. They are roughly the size of a city bus at the moment, to carry 6 people. This would also affect the pilots view, which is a big problem at the moment. In 3rd person, you will not see a building right next to you until it's too late. Recon should be a role for Dropshit pilots.
Recon
- The ability to mark targets, lock on and relay the coordinates to orbital support that would track targets, not just lambaste an area. I'm thinking surgical strike from Eve players. <- see that, integration baby! Or bar that, be able to guide missiles launched by tanks/installations. |
gbghg
L.O.T.I.S.
Legacy Rising
567
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Posted - 2013.03.09 13:58:00 -
[36] - Quote
Here's the link to the ph/CPU thread https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=62875&find=unread |
Vyzion Eyri
The Southern Legion
239
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Posted - 2013.03.09 21:58:00 -
[37] - Quote
v0.45
Linked gbghg's threat detection proposal to his thread here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=62795&find=unread
Added, as a precursor to the Deployment WP section, this thread: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=62875&find=unread
Added Deployable Equipment
Altered conclusion slightly as previously it stated I may move the thread to the request section upon completion of the thread, but Eterne did so already.
Changed "How to make your own changes/additions" to "Feel free to make your own changes/additions"
-
Note the last point. Once again, dear pilots, I wish to reiterate that our voices should not be snatched by the wind and unheard UNLESS we're flying with the top down.
I want opinions, feedback, hate, anything to show me where this thread lies on your "What dropships need" compass. Whether the needle is pointing directly at this thread, or somewhere else, tell me what I must change to alter magnetisation of your needle to make it point here. |
gbghg
L.O.T.I.S.
Legacy Rising
570
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Posted - 2013.03.10 10:56:00 -
[38] - Quote
bump |
Vyzion Eyri
The Legion Academy
240
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Posted - 2013.03.10 11:00:00 -
[39] - Quote
Maybe the system is perfect and the pilot community have no further suggestions. :D |
gbghg
L.O.T.I.S.
Legacy Rising
571
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Posted - 2013.03.10 11:33:00 -
[40] - Quote
Maybe the pilot community is burnt out from complaining and can't be bothered to dig through F/S to complain |
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Hunter Junko
WARRIORS 1NC
51
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Posted - 2013.03.11 21:39:00 -
[41] - Quote
no, there's still a lot more ideas to go around, but pilots tend to be a bit shy about it Lol.
anyways making an edit here proposed idea towards transport incentives:
A near unanimous fact with the the pilots circle is that the main role for dropships should be transport, but the main question remained:
how do we provide incentives?
a few ideas, but since im running out of time here in the internet in the library ima make em quick so forgive me for any typos:
Maps- all the maps we have have both teams fighting in a technical stalemate sort of scenario. well thats kinda unrealistic due to the fact that no "Real Battlefield" would ever be begin in a stalemate, al least according to the terms of modern warfare. there should be more maps where the terrain should render an lav or an HAV immobile due to geographical reasons. the most well known example i can remember was the hedgerows after the D-Day invasion in WW2. tanks despite their size cant maneuver through the hedgerows without painting themselves a bigger target for german ambushes on the other side.
fast forward to the lore on EVE a tank comes upon a geographical obstacle that cant be bypassed. a dropship is within the vicinity and the pilot requests a pick up. the dropship pilot responds and latches the tank onto its belly. this could be a juicy target for you fat Forge gunners, but since the Dropship and the tank are now one (For the duration of the transport) the tank's shields can be temporarily used by the pilot to protect his precious cargo. or his armor repair units can fix the damage the dropship will sustain until the intended destination. i can see this as an opportunity to acquire a lot of warpoints to contribute to the squad.
thats it for now, will continue the next time i'm available.
Safe hunting |
Vyzion Eyri
The Legion Academy
297
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Posted - 2013.03.15 22:05:00 -
[42] - Quote
Alternative WP System
Focusing on the role of Deployment
Given that I've been seeing more and more awareness of the proper usage of A-V, it has become harder to use the dropship as a truly disruptive vehicle. Stay in one area of the airspace for too long and swarms, forges and turrets swivel to you for some free war points. Perhaps, then, there needs to be a system where there is only rewards for actions involving the dropping of troops.
The following system is slightly modified from the original Deployment WP system I had in the OP, however boosted a little bit to account for the fact that Disruption WP is removed.
- Deployment WP:
5WP for every mercenary deployed.
10WP for deployment near a hackable installation.
15WP for deployment near NULL Cannons.
- Deployment Assist WP:
After a mercenary(ies) is deployed, the dropship pilot should acquire Deployment Assist WP for the next full minute.
10WP per kill/hacking installations.
15WP for vehicle/turret destruction.
20WP for hacking NULL cannons.
- Savior WP:
10WP when someone enters your dropship and has taken damage from enemy fire in the last 5 seconds.
WP Cap:When a pilot gains 150WP from deployment WP, WP gain stops for one minute as a cooldown.
- Failed Deployment WP:
-10WP if a mercenary is killed 5 seconds after he/she is dropped. This does not include falling to death.
I'm hoping this penalty ensures pilots are thinking before dropping their troops into a hot zone.
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Bojo The Mighty
Bojo's School of the Trades
588
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Posted - 2013.03.15 22:27:00 -
[43] - Quote
I wrote this in the DS survival WP thread:
Quote:For the transport issue, I think that when Team Leaders are instated, a team Leader could designate a rally point, and if team mates get out of your dropship at the designated rally area, you get maybe 10 WP per person dropped at rally point and X% of their WP made at rally point but there's a limit:
- Pilot can not make WP for delivering same people to the same rally point (like reviving same person twice)
- New rally point must be X meters from the last one to reset WP lock
- Pilot receives X% of passenger WP at dropzone for X seconds
- Pilot must go X distance in the X-Y plane before a passenger can be picked up and considered a "New Passenger"
- Cool Down Timer after drop WP.
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gbghg
L.O.T.I.S.
Legacy Rising
672
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Posted - 2013.03.16 20:48:00 -
[44] - Quote
Clearly CCP has a sense of humour, lots of rather well thought out threads asking for buffs to dropships and their wp generation and we get a nerf to the single most useful module, the afterburner. |
gbghg
L.O.T.I.S.
Legacy Rising
691
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Posted - 2013.03.18 00:33:00 -
[45] - Quote
oh yes we forget to add "raise the flight ceiling" |
Arc-08
Horizons' Edge
1
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Posted - 2013.03.18 17:09:00 -
[46] - Quote
Wow, amazing to see other people that understand how dificult dropship piloting is. All of those ideas are great, and i would totally pay money if they wanted to make it the new "dropship pack". These countermeasures and point systems really need to be implemented. |
Halador Osiris
Dead Six Initiative
65
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Posted - 2013.03.18 18:49:00 -
[47] - Quote
Vyzion Eyri wrote:v0.50 Added Deployment only WP system as an alternative Added "Integrated Afterburners" (Original idea by Skihids)
Alternative WP System
Focusing on the role of Deployment Given that I've been seeing more and more awareness of the proper usage of A-V, it has become harder to use the dropship as a truly disruptive vehicle. Stay in one area of the airspace for too long and swarms, forges and turrets swivel to you for some free war points. Perhaps, then, there needs to be a system where there is only rewards for actions involving the dropping of troops. The following system is slightly modified from the original Deployment WP system I had in the OP, however boosted a little bit to account for the fact that Disruption WP is removed.
- Deployment WP:
5WP for every mercenary deployed.
10WP for deployment near a hackable installation.
15WP for deployment near NULL Cannons.
- Deployment Assist WP:
After a mercenary(ies) is deployed, the dropship pilot should acquire Deployment Assist WP for the next full minute.
10WP per kill/hacking installations.
15WP for vehicle/turret destruction.
20WP for hacking NULL cannons.
- Savior WP:
10WP when someone enters your dropship and has taken damage from enemy fire in the last 5 seconds.
WP Cap:When a pilot gains 150WP from deployment WP, WP gain stops for one minute as a cooldown.
- Failed Deployment WP:
-10WP if a mercenary is killed 5 seconds after he/she is dropped. This does not include falling to death.
I'm hoping this penalty ensures pilots are thinking before dropping their troops into a hot zone.
I like everything on this list, except I'd call savior a "tactical extraction"
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Pvt Numnutz
We're OWL Exterminators
35
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Posted - 2013.03.18 19:54:00 -
[48] - Quote
This is by far the best thread for dropship discussion I've seen! properly organized, and well maintained, this is what the fourms should be used for. I'm sure CCP looks to this thread when they think about altering dropships.
Vyzion Eyri already linked a post to my thread on dropships and i am greatful for that. I would also like to add a few things to this compilation of pilot ideas,
Turrets:
Defender missile turrets. For those that don't play EVE i shall explain, Defender missiles are used to shoot down enemy missiles in flight. I propose that there should be Defender turrets that can be put on dropships. They lock and fire on enemy swarm launchers, and can only lock and fire on enemy swarms. I feel this would be a good "missile defense" option.
Possible WP system:
If a squad decides to get into a dropship how are us dropship pilots suppose to know where they want to go? I'm sure most of you would agree that dropship pilots generally don't know much about the tactical ground situation. We are typically flying circles around the map or crushing snipers, or just flying around. So when a squad gets in i suggest that when a squad leader enters the dropship he/she gets a new set of commands, ie. Dropzone/Landing zone. The pilot can see these orders regardless of which squad they are in. If the pilot can successfully drop the squad in the designated DZ then the pilot gets "x" WP. The same goes for LZ pickups. However these commands might be useful even if the squad commander isnt in the dropship, if he knows that there is a dropship in the sky he can request a pick up by marking a LZ and any pilots in a dropship can see the marker regardless of which squad the pilot is in. Just to help us communicate with the blueberries. This system would also fit in with the others that have been discussed in this and many other threads.
Keep up the good work, I will be posting on this thread alot i feel. |
Eris Ernaga
HAV Deployment Organization
74
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Posted - 2013.03.18 22:00:00 -
[49] - Quote
Certain roles and fittings earn different amount of war points for example a sniper wont make that many war points because kills alone don't earn that much. However an assault will make a lot of war points because he is front line and ends up hacking a lot of objectives on top of scoring kills. Logis get a moderate amount of points for close range kills, repairs and revives, and objective hacks. Drop ships unfortunately don't have a good income of war points so I can understand why you are complaining but why do drop ships deserve more war points? It's a fact that a tank probably makes the most war points in a game over any thing else in the game but should it nerfed because of this? I believe drop ships hit points and usefulness should be increased but why do they deserve more war points snipers aren't getting any as well? If you wanna make a lot of war points get a tank blow up installations put a defend order on your tank and score RDV kills and vehicle kills. |
gbghg
L.O.T.I.S.
Legacy Rising
697
|
Posted - 2013.03.18 22:16:00 -
[50] - Quote
Eris Ernaga wrote:Certain roles and fittings earn different amount of war points for example a sniper wont make that many war points because kills alone don't earn that much. However an assault will make a lot of war points because he is front line and ends up hacking a lot of objectives on top of scoring kills. Logis get a moderate amount of points for close range kills, repairs and revives, and objective hacks. Drop ships unfortunately don't have a good income of war points so I can understand why you are complaining but why do drop ships deserve more war points?It's a fact that a tank probably makes the most war points in a game over any thing else in the game but should it nerfed because of this? I believe drop ships hit points and usefulness should be increased but why do they deserve more war points snipers aren't getting any as well? If you wanna make a lot of war points get a tank blow up installations put a defend order on your tank and score RDV kills and vehicle kills.
1) A dropships job is in the name to transport and drop troops off where they are needed, we currently get no WP for doing this, our designated and designed job. This is ******** and counter to game design and common sense, a sniper get wp for killing enemies and wounding them (assist points) this is his role on the battlefield, a tank gets wp for killing infantry installations and enemy vehicles, this is his job on the battlefield, a dropship drops troops off and has them spawn into the dropship this is his job and he gets no points for this. He does however get points when his gunners get kills, thus tempting him to use his dropship as a gunship a role it is not designed or suited for.
2)Where in this thread does it suggest tanks should be nerfed?
3)We want to get wp for being pilots, not tankers.
and on a side note please use punctuation. |
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Bling Blaine
FrontLine-Coalition
4
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Posted - 2013.03.19 03:25:00 -
[51] - Quote
As a former Pilot for bfbc2 and bf3 I was initially drawn to the dropships and had a very fun time navigating through tight areas and around the reach of swarmies.
As you can see I am speaking past tense, I quickly noticed the wp, sp and isk was kittens as my pilots couldn't net more than a few kills per round, but thats not even the main purpose of the ship to me as its more of a quick deploy for a squad of mercs into a tight spot. Either way it wasnt netting me squat and as a bi-product of having 2 guns onboard our team is now short 3 mercs for objective taking.
Something has to change as I haven't flown a ship in weeks due to the unsustainability/payout.
I agree with ALL of your information regarding wp for all instances you mention.
+1
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Vyzion Eyri
The Legion Academy
333
|
Posted - 2013.03.19 09:43:00 -
[52] - Quote
v0.55
Added "Rally WP System" to Alternative WP systems
Linked Pvt Numnutz' "Defensive Turrets" idea to Features->Countermeasures
Changed "Savior WP" within the "Deployment WP System" to "(Tactical) Extraction WP"
_____
Combining Bojo The Mighty's post here https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=620980#post620980
With PVt Numnutz' WP system here https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=627631#post627631
I've formulated another possible WP system.
The 'Rally' Squad-based WP system.
This, I thought, wouldn't be viable with such small squads that we have currently. However, the advent of 6 man squads means a full squad can occupy one dropship. This is amazing and I salivate at the thought of it; with this many people per squad, it should promote the requirement of dropship pilots within a squad for usage as a rallying point/transport vehicle exclusively by that one squad.
Furthermore, the Rally command is probably the least used of all squad commands out there. The only person who I've seen use it to some effectiveness is Bojo himself; I'm not surprised it was he who suggested implementing a system like this. Turning this command into something useful will actually give the squad leader something else to think about besides placing a defend order on the best FPS player in the squad to rack up points.
Here we go.
- Rally WP:
10WP gained per mercenary deployment at a location marked with the Rally squad command.
-An additional 10WP per mercenary deployed is gained if a mercenary deployed survives for one minute or until the mercenary travels out of range of the Rally command.
So if a full squad is deployed (bar the pilot), and survives until the given conditions are met, a pilot gains 100WP.
-10WP gained per mercenary extracted at a location marked with the Rally squad command.
Mercenaries extracted must have not been in the dropship for more than one minute before WP is acquired for extraction.
Imagine, for instance, a situation where B is under heavy assault and C is relatively quiet. The distance between the two is great, however, and to traverse from C to B will leave C defenseless for a great amount of time. The squad leader at C places a rally command on the ground at C, and once picked up sets it at C. The dropship can carry the squad from C to B, picking up 5 members of the the beleaguered squad at B and taking them back to C for a respite.
In total, if all mercenaries survive deployment, 150WP.
- WP Cap: I will not implement an actual WP cap on this system.
The restricting components is the necessity for a mercenary to have been out of the dropship for at least a minute, as well as the requirement for a squad leader to have the Rally location marked.
____
Feedback is always welcome! Thanks for the support, guys. I'm worried this thread will become redundant because the next major update to DUST might already include a new system that will make dropship pilots very happy (I have faith in CCP), but it was nevertheless very fun creating this thread and constantly expanding it. |
gbghg
L.O.T.I.S.
Legacy Rising
698
|
Posted - 2013.03.19 14:26:00 -
[53] - Quote
Vyzion Eyri wrote:v0.55
Feedback is always welcome! Thanks for the support, guys. I'm worried this thread will become redundant because the next major update to DUST might already include a new system that will make dropship pilots very happy (I have faith in CCP), but it was nevertheless very fun creating this thread and constantly expanding it.
This thread becoming redundant would mean it's done it's jobs, but knowing CCP there will probably still be some things about dropships we can complain about |
gbghg
L.O.T.I.S.
Legacy Rising
698
|
Posted - 2013.03.19 20:36:00 -
[54] - Quote
feedback from skihids on afterburners
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=62202&p=1 |
Vyzion Eyri
The Legion Academy
335
|
Posted - 2013.03.19 21:16:00 -
[55] - Quote
I think that's the wrong link :P |
gbghg
L.O.T.I.S.
Legacy Rising
698
|
Posted - 2013.03.19 21:28:00 -
[56] - Quote
Vyzion Eyri wrote:I think that's the wrong link :P
kitten i swear i double checked that link, anyway its fixed now |
gbghg
L.O.T.I.S.
Legacy Rising
698
|
Posted - 2013.03.19 21:28:00 -
[57] - Quote
And stupid double post |
Arc-08
Horizons' Edge
1
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Posted - 2013.03.20 21:06:00 -
[58] - Quote
If they don't add any of those (epicly amazing) features into the game, then they need to make it so dropships can't be targeted/shot down so long as they are moving at a decent speed. Thus you are only vulnerable whilst dropping people off at a location/getting in close to take a shot. But i would rather them just add some of those features to the game. |
Vyzion Eyri
The Legion Academy
343
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 12:05:00 -
[59] - Quote
v0.60
Added Further Reading.
Reintroduced Designation WP as an alternative WP system.
_____
There is less incentive to specialise into Logistics-class dropships than there is to jump in front of a 2 million blaster tank wielding an empty scrambler pistol.
Why? I personally believe it's because the reduction in stats. overcompensates for the addition of an on-board CRU.
Therefore, to account for this:
The Designation WP System
A moving spawn point is a good spawn point
For those pilots who believe their skills are truly honed to perfection, those pilots who believe that there is nothing more glorious than deploying a rain of mercenaries onto a crucial flanking position in the battlefield, this system will reward you.
You are the pilot who has given up a high-powered module slot for a mobile CRU, or else went the extra mile to skill into Logistics-class dropships.
[list]
Team Spawn WP: 25WP for each person to spawn into your dropship, with a cap of 125WP (5 passengers) which resets after ALL of those 5 passengers have exited the dropship.
If this is too difficult to implement, then perhaps a cap of 250WP which resets every 3 minutes will suffice.
Designation WP: When a mercenary spawns into your dropship, and your dropship has taken damage in the last 30 seconds, you gain 30WP. There is no cap to designation WP; the requirement of being targetted by AV should cause pilots to fly cautiously enough.
_____
If anyone has other cool dropship threads to add to further reading, feel free to link them. I've got a few scattered through my OP already; but I can't have seen them all.
Also, the Rally WP system, along with this Designation system, are probably not perfect. Feedback on them would be welcome.
And as always, any new suggestions would be great!
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Bojo The Mighty
Bojo's School of the Trades
663
|
Posted - 2013.03.21 18:16:00 -
[60] - Quote
This requires work on current dropship models:
Landing Skis like a helicopter.
The current landing "feet" are very imbalanced and cause tipping. The simplicity and functionality behind landing skis far exceeds the potential futuristic landing feet have to offer. |
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