DUST Search - How to make menus user friendly (with pictures)

Telcontar Dunedain wrote:

Kudos for getting out and doing this.

However -

I think the problem with that art direction is that, while it would "help the newb" for the first few hours, the rest of us would be stuck with it forever.

The main ui should be optimized for repeated daily usage by vets.

Also, you realize that Eve and Dust514 will have a unified market at some point? I think your ideas would be very unwieldy if that happens.

Add a separate area for new players with more graphics and explanatory text -

I think its much much more important for the Eve style certificate system to move into Dust514.

Integrating the optimization display of that into the UI should take priority over the market.

Getting newbs to understand the tree of choices they need to make to get a solid build is more important then the market.

They could and should add the weapons and links to the market directly into the display of the certificates.

IE Medic level 1 with a link to the standard nanite injector + repper.

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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 3082	Posted - 2013.03.02 22:08:00 - [1] - Quote Please read the whole post, and click these images: Market part 1 Market part 2 Fitting menu Menus need to be more user friendly. [PROBLEMS] Complicated menus is one of the most common complaints about Dust 514. When you first enter the market there is an massive amount of info on the front page, and there are an overwhelming amount of store sections. New players often don't know where to start. I once saw a YouTube video of a guy stumbling through the Dust 514 market. He was trying to skill into things to be able to buy items from the market just for testing. I noticed he did not know there were militia versions to try cheaply without SP investment. He's basically making uninformed decisions on how to spend his SP. After buying the prerequisite skill for an item from the "required skills" banner, he thought he had to exit the market and go to the skills page to level up the skill (same guy from the vid). Fitting items is relatively simple, but the radial presentation makes it look much more complicated than it really is. [HOW TO FIX IT] Store sections need to be compressed into very few and easy to understand categories. These categories could be: Militia Infantry Gear (weapons, dropsuits, equipment, dropsuit modules) Vehicle gear (turrets, vehicles, vehicle modules) Augmentations (UVTs and skill boosters) Skillbooks Installations (when they're available on the market) The militia section of the market needs to get much more focus from new players. Perhaps a message can pop up when they first enter the market telling them the benefits of militia items (try without SP investment, cheap), or incorporate that info about the militia section into the market tutorial. Making the militia tab bigger, and a different color than other market tabs may also help. When buying prerequisite skills from the market from the "required skills" banner, it should be clearly stated that the it should automatically ask the user if they want to level up the skill right after they buy it. The fitting screen should get simplified look, though the current radial look should remain as an option for those like me who prefer it (simplified menu should be the default). Since Friday I was working on images to illustrate the proposed changes to the market and fitting menus. Here they are: Market part 1 Market part 2 Fitting menu With these changes Dust will be much less complicated, and easier to understand experience for new players. If you have suggestions on how to make things more user friendly, or improvements on my idea, please post it in the comments. Thank you for reading.
xAckie Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising 125	Posted - 2013.03.02 22:22:00 - [2] - Quote +1 for having a go at this. I remember when I first downloaded this game I was surprised at how the market looked - spreadsheet type for. better categorisation and use of images to convey meaning without text is definitely the way forward. It will clean up the UI at the very least CCP take a look at what Kageoshi is talking about.
Telcontar Dunedain Imperfects Negative-Feedback 349	Posted - 2013.03.02 22:26:00 - [3] - Quote Kudos for getting out and doing this. However - I think the problem with that art direction is that, while it would "help the newb" for the first few hours, the rest of us would be stuck with it forever. I think its much much more important for the Eve style certificate system to move into Dust514. Integrating the optimization display of that into the UI should take priority over the market. Getting newbs to understand the tree of choices they need to make to get a solid build is more important then the market. They could and should add the weapons and links to the market directly into the display of the certificates. IE Medic level 1 with a link to the standard nanite injector + repper.
trollsroyce Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 173	Posted - 2013.03.02 22:58:00 - [4] - Quote Market: Infantry Vehicle New Eden Market The last one links to current variation and eve combined market with cool diagrams and spreadsheets. Skill books need not really be on market at all for dust; just buy them from skill sheet directly. Augmentations should be bought from skill/character sheet directly. Fitting: The current fitting screen is functional in its core. Some graphics overhaul and control improvements for kbm would suffice IMHO. Yours looks equally functional.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 3088	Posted - 2013.03.03 01:54:00 - [5] - Quote I would really appreciate feedback on this from new players.
Thrillhouse Van Houten Expert Intervention Caldari State 14	Posted - 2013.03.03 02:10:00 - [6] - Quote I play Eve so none of the stuff from Dust seems that complicated. The menus are only hard for me to navigate because it seems like each menu uses different buttons on the kb+m. Not being a console gamer much myself, I do get the impression that CCP is used to designing menus for the PC but adapted for the PS3 and now both are kinda screwy. Why can I use ESC in place of RMB when navigating menus, for example, but not to cancel anything that specifically requires use of the cancel (circle on DS3)? Stupid menu controls. The ultimate point was already made here: this market menu will eventually synch up with Eve's. It pretty much has to be "spreadsheet" style in order for that to work.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 3089	Posted - 2013.03.03 03:15:00 - [7] - Quote As long as the prices and organization and items is the same on both the EVE and Dust side, I don't see how this presents a problem. Its the same info, except on the Dust side can display categories more visually. The reorganizing of Dust items into basic categories (with subcategories inside) won't present problems for EVE as long as its also done on the EVE side as well. Its not even that big of a change, just dumping some existing categories into even bigger categories. No comment on getting militia section more attention? or improving the "required skills" babber? or fitting menu changes?
Mortal Maximus KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND 8	Posted - 2013.03.03 04:24:00 - [8] - Quote really nice that you posted this :), cuz i've been a dust player for three months now and i just learned this week that i could cheaply buy things in the militia gear section and didn't have to stupidly use my sp :\|
2-Ton Twenty-One Imperfects Negative-Feedback 239	Posted - 2013.03.03 04:39:00 - [9] - Quote +1 also you spelled infantry wrong not that it matters.
Kiso Okami Militaires Sans Jeux 20	Posted - 2013.03.03 12:40:00 - [10] - Quote I like what you are doing, as this is something that I have been meaning to go over in order to improve the user experience for those that will be playing DUST 514, especially those that only have a console gaming background. The Market - - There are a few thing that do bother me though, mainly because some of the presented changes are not something that players generally do or see in most games (like for example, navigating with L/R buttons to access more advanced drop suits, but I think that may be useful if more properly presented). But that's another issue altogether, and I guess that's what this thread is about. It's kinda hard to explain what I mean, and I may have to make an actual mockup myself to properly illustrate what I mean. So I guess I'll leave it at that until I either do the mockup myself or find a good way to explain it. Also, to those that are saying that the DUST UI has to share the look as the EVE UI in order to be able to properly display all the info needed, you're quite mistaken. You can indeed simplify even the EVE market's UI in DUST without losing much of the information density, you just have to not think of it as a spreadsheet and more as a online shop. Fitting Screen - - This is quite possibly the purest way to display the dropsuit fitting screen. And yes, I agree with the statement that the radial menu makes fitting too complicated. There are a few thing that could use more information being display in order to understand the full capabilities of the proposed fitting screen, but I think I can see how this works (in my mind at least). One thing I'd like to suggest is to take the drop suit stat pane to the right an move all of the information to the top and maybe display it in a more user-readable manner, although I don't mind leaving it where it is and just increasing the font size a bit more. Another thing I'd like to add is that you make space for displaying the drop suit that is being fitted in order to let the player know what he will look like in battle, since we are not really able to change drop suits in the MQ. .....hmm... now I have an itch to make UI mock ups again.....

KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 3101	Posted - 2013.03.04 09:41:00 - [11] - Quote More feedback is welcomed.
digi mech Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 2	Posted - 2013.03.04 11:53:00 - [12] - Quote I think the OP is a brave man. and thanks.. its my biggest criticism of the game. a more visual approach to the menus would be good. but I think the main issue for me is that its just too complicated as a system. it has put several of my friends off.. as console gamers we dont really want endless menus, we want immediacy and simplicity. there is no reason why you cant have an in depth rpg system that is simple to navigate and understand. I think there could be less duplication. that would eliminate alot of menus that dont need to exist, probably half, or more. for example, you dont really need to buy skills anywhere except your skills section on your character. having them in the store only encourages new users to spend isk on skill books they dont need because they think they are buying the skills, not realising they need to spend sp too once a book is unlocked.. so do both from one place and make it clear both are required. I find the menus overly complicated and unnecessarily convoluted. the redundant duplication of things really bugs me.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 3106	Posted - 2013.03.05 22:46:00 - [13] - Quote I would not say brave, but thank you. Also, I noticed the guy playing dust on the Escapist livestream wanted to try the heavy, but he thought he can't try it because no skill points, he didn't know he could just test it by buying the militia heavy version until someone told him in the chat. Placing militia versions of items in the regular market section of its standard-prototype counterpart will prevent confusion. I also noticed that he didn't know he could just buy/raise a skill from the "required skills" banner on the market, and left the market to go to the skills page. The banner needs to specifically inform players that they can buy/raise skills right there.
Meeko Fent Kinsho Swords Caldari State 13	Posted - 2013.03.06 02:57:00 - [14] - Quote Telcontar Dunedain wrote: Kudos for getting out and doing this. However - I think the problem with that art direction is that, while it would "help the newb" for the first few hours, the rest of us would be stuck with it forever. The main ui should be optimized for repeated daily usage by vets. Also, you realize that Eve and Dust514 will have a unified market at some point? I think your ideas would be very unwieldy if that happens. Add a separate area for new players with more graphics and explanatory text - I think its much much more important for the Eve style certificate system to move into Dust514. Integrating the optimization display of that into the UI should take priority over the market. Getting newbs to understand the tree of choices they need to make to get a solid build is more important then the market. They could and should add the weapons and links to the market directly into the display of the certificates. IE Medic level 1 with a link to the standard nanite injector + repper. Well I think he made a point of saying that if you wanted to keep your old radial menu, you could turn it back on in the Market
kyan west D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION 19	Posted - 2013.03.06 03:15:00 - [15] - Quote Thank god for that wipe...i jacked things up and lost alot of sp in the beginning
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 3122	Posted - 2013.03.08 19:59:00 - [16] - Quote Anyone else have any opinions on this?
Jathniel G I A N T 68	Posted - 2013.03.08 21:02:00 - [17] - Quote The simplicity of your menus is... refreshing. (Like going from Windows to an Arch Bang desktop.) It's clearly less resource-intensive as well. How would you depict the skill tree? And perhaps even class-based presets, sort of a build guide for newbies to follow. I envisioned a horizontally-scrolling tree (perhaps left to right), with large boxes and big plain texts, explaining what a particular skill does. Instead of needing to press the "More Info" button on every single skill, just to find out it's function. What would be your take on a skill tree? EDIT: The 'Rice Crispies' Locus Grenade and 'Hulk smash' titan heavy, were some nice touches. lol
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 3124	Posted - 2013.03.09 02:11:00 - [18] - Quote Jathniel wrote: The simplicity of your menus is... refreshing. (Like going from Windows to an Arch Bang desktop.) It's clearly less resource-intensive as well. How would you depict the skill tree? And perhaps even class-based presets, sort of a build guide for newbies to follow. I envisioned a horizontally-scrolling tree (perhaps left to right), with large boxes and big plain texts, explaining what a particular skill does. Instead of needing to press the "More Info" button on every single skill, just to find out it's function. What would be your take on a skill tree? EDIT: The 'Rice Crispies' Locus Grenade and 'Hulk smash' titan heavy, were some nice touches. lol I think the skills menu is straight forward enough in my opinion, but I'm sure more improvements could definitely be done.
Jathniel G I A N T 68	Posted - 2013.03.09 03:43:00 - [19] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Jathniel wrote: The simplicity of your menus is... refreshing. (Like going from Windows to an Arch Bang desktop.) It's clearly less resource-intensive as well. How would you depict the skill tree? And perhaps even class-based presets, sort of a build guide for newbies to follow. I envisioned a horizontally-scrolling tree (perhaps left to right), with large boxes and big plain texts, explaining what a particular skill does. Instead of needing to press the "More Info" button on every single skill, just to find out it's function. What would be your take on a skill tree? EDIT: The 'Rice Crispies' Locus Grenade and 'Hulk smash' titan heavy, were some nice touches. lol I think the skills menu is straight forward enough in my opinion, but I'm sure more improvements could definitely be done. Yeah, the current skill menu is definitely more geared toward people that actually enjoy reading. Some of our friends are less analytical than the rest of us. Introduced some of my friends to the game, and they stopped playing because they simply said they don't know what to do. Skills menu doesn't exactly scream, "Hey! You need ME to progress!' lol Here's the thread: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=61276&find=unread
PT SD Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 175	Posted - 2013.03.14 14:52:00 - [20] - Quote IMO, this looks like some windows 8 mess. No, thank you. The current market is nice enough for me. I don't want this tablet interface in DUST514.

Mountain Doody DUST University Ivy League 0	Posted - 2013.03.19 03:10:00 - [21] - Quote Nice mockups. +1
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1699	Posted - 2013.03.19 04:20:00 - [22] - Quote I agree that this makes it simpler for newbies to navigate the menus, however there is one consideration you have to remember. Dust is CCP's way of trying to get more folks into joining Eve Online (their principle source of revenue) in addition to expanding the New Eden universe. That said, it just makes sense that both games utilize similar dropsuit fitting windows so that players from both sides can feel right at home as soon as they transition from Dust to Eve and vise versa. Besides, the current circle layout for the fitting window has already become a common design even among third-party developers who have adopted this circle concept such as the following: http://null-sec.com/hangar/ eve.battleclinic.com Like I said, you idea makes it simple for the newbie, but it just makes it more confusing once that newbie decides to want to try out Eve Online and sees a circle menu or when the Eve veteran decides to dive in Dust and sees a block menu.
Aeon Amadi WarRavens 1092	Posted - 2013.03.19 04:58:00 - [23] - Quote Should be optional, imo... I don't really like it but that's because I've gotten used to the interface for Dust 514 and any changes at this point would jack me (and anyone like me) over.


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