DUST Search - [Vote] Kb/m Joystick segregate

Garrett Blacknova wrote:

Shijima Kuraimaru wrote:

Garrett Blacknova wrote:

Shijima Kuraimaru wrote:

Perhaps I should really **** people off and go hybrid control using left stick to move and mouse to turn and aim. Then I'd have the best of both worlds.

Wait... There are players already doing that. LOL

There's a problem with this. Manual reloading is awkward. So are interactions (hacking, climbing ladders) and things like jumping.

Hybrid control is awkward and restrictive. It gives a great combination of advantages, but it also has its own disadvantages.

Of course, it's better than the other hybrid option - keyboard movement, controller aim. Which I've also tried. If I could reshuffle a few buttons on the controller, it would probably be decent - though still not great.

Square: Tap to reload, hold to interact (hack, enter vehicle/turret, climb ladder)
Circle: Crouch
Triangle: Switch weapon
R2: ADS

Use everything else that's in easy reach while holding the controller in your right hand, and put the left hand on the WASD keys, and you've got basically all functions in easy reach. BUT you have the worst aim and the worst movement options. So it also doesn't give an advantage.

Well I'd still have the keyboard there. Tap "R" with my little finger or the curve of the controller to reload. Hold to "E" to interact. Middle mouse button actually brings up the wheel while scrolling the wheel switches weapons or hold caps lock to bring up the wheel.

As far as I can tell, the missing right side controller functions can be accessed with the keyboard with a touch or press of the left little finger.

I might try that out someday, but I think I'm a little too lazy and will just stick to KB/M.

I know you CAN do it - like I said, I HAVE done it. But it's not as easy, fluid or intuitive as either KB+M or the Sixaxis by itself.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Stundryn The Inf1dels Zombie Ninja Space Bears 3	Posted - 2013.03.06 00:25:00 - [91] - Quote Since using a kb/m is okay even though it is an added expense. Can i use a modded controller ? We are talking about just spending more money to be better. We are playing on a console. Why does this game even have the option of kb/m?
Lavirac JR DUST University Ivy League 131	Posted - 2013.03.06 00:42:00 - [92] - Quote 4.
Poultryge1st NECROMONGER'S 1	Posted - 2013.03.06 00:44:00 - [93] - Quote 1 Don't segregate
Chances Ghost Prototype Technology Corp. 16	Posted - 2013.03.06 01:52:00 - [94] - Quote Dont segrgate For instance what would happen to the players who use BOTH the DS3 and the mouse at the same time?
Utsuru Kaiju IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 12	Posted - 2013.03.06 02:06:00 - [95] - Quote The KB/M support isn't even that good at this point of the game. You can't remap buttons, and due to frame rate issues and I assume programming the mouse isn't nearly as smooth as on say, a nice PC Shooter. It also takes a while to get use to using their control scheme (which sucks by the way) since you can't edit yourself. The only benefit is slightly better aiming, but only slightly better. Hell, some elite gamers on PC choose to use gamepads/controllers because they like the feel better, and they destroy with them. They aren't being segregated from playing against KB/M users, nor should they be. I say if they were to take controller in put into account when queuing up people for battle, it would be detrimental and borderline stupid.
Shijima Kuraimaru WarRavens 173	Posted - 2013.03.06 03:22:00 - [96] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Shijima Kuraimaru wrote: Perhaps I should really **** people off and go hybrid control using left stick to move and mouse to turn and aim. Then I'd have the best of both worlds. Wait... There are players already doing that. LOL There's a problem with this. Manual reloading is awkward. So are interactions (hacking, climbing ladders) and things like jumping. Hybrid control is awkward and restrictive. It gives a great combination of advantages, but it also has its own disadvantages. Of course, it's better than the other hybrid option - keyboard movement, controller aim. Which I've also tried. If I could reshuffle a few buttons on the controller, it would probably be decent - though still not great. Square: Tap to reload, hold to interact (hack, enter vehicle/turret, climb ladder) Circle: Crouch Triangle: Switch weapon R2: ADS Use everything else that's in easy reach while holding the controller in your right hand, and put the left hand on the WASD keys, and you've got basically all functions in easy reach. BUT you have the worst aim and the worst movement options. So it also doesn't give an advantage. Well I'd still have the keyboard there. Tap "R" with my little finger or the curve of the controller to reload. Hold to "E" to interact. Middle mouse button actually brings up the wheel while scrolling the wheel switches weapons or hold caps lock to bring up the wheel. As far as I can tell, the missing right side controller functions can be accessed with the keyboard with a touch or press of the left little finger. I might try that out someday, but I think I'm a little too lazy and will just stick to KB/M.
Jayquan18 The Southern Legion 44	Posted - 2013.03.06 06:50:00 - [97] - Quote Panther Alpha wrote: 1- Don't segregate I use a Gamepad in my PC, why can't i use my mouse in the Console ? Ahh, because this is a console and not a PC.
LuckyLuke Wargan HavoK Core 28	Posted - 2013.03.06 07:04:00 - [98] - Quote If you think using a kb/m is unfair just get one yourself and vice-versa... geesh.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1861	Posted - 2013.03.06 07:06:00 - [99] - Quote Shijima Kuraimaru wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Shijima Kuraimaru wrote: Perhaps I should really **** people off and go hybrid control using left stick to move and mouse to turn and aim. Then I'd have the best of both worlds. Wait... There are players already doing that. LOL There's a problem with this. Manual reloading is awkward. So are interactions (hacking, climbing ladders) and things like jumping. Hybrid control is awkward and restrictive. It gives a great combination of advantages, but it also has its own disadvantages. Of course, it's better than the other hybrid option - keyboard movement, controller aim. Which I've also tried. If I could reshuffle a few buttons on the controller, it would probably be decent - though still not great. Square: Tap to reload, hold to interact (hack, enter vehicle/turret, climb ladder) Circle: Crouch Triangle: Switch weapon R2: ADS Use everything else that's in easy reach while holding the controller in your right hand, and put the left hand on the WASD keys, and you've got basically all functions in easy reach. BUT you have the worst aim and the worst movement options. So it also doesn't give an advantage. Well I'd still have the keyboard there. Tap "R" with my little finger or the curve of the controller to reload. Hold to "E" to interact. Middle mouse button actually brings up the wheel while scrolling the wheel switches weapons or hold caps lock to bring up the wheel. As far as I can tell, the missing right side controller functions can be accessed with the keyboard with a touch or press of the left little finger. I might try that out someday, but I think I'm a little too lazy and will just stick to KB/M. I know you CAN do it - like I said, I HAVE done it. But it's not as easy, fluid or intuitive as either KB+M or the Sixaxis by itself.
fred orpaul Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 220	Posted - 2013.03.06 07:51:00 - [100] - Quote if there are imbalances they need to fix them even if it makes KB/m users *****, KB/M should not break the game mechanics, but no separation in any situation it only feeds the whiners and makes them more entitled for when they start bithing about the imbalance in corp matches.... and yes they will.. I use KB/M and controller, depending on what I find the most pleasant to use.

fred orpaul Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 220	Posted - 2013.03.06 07:58:00 - [101] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Shijima Kuraimaru wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Shijima Kuraimaru wrote: Perhaps I should really **** people off and go hybrid control using left stick to move and mouse to turn and aim. Then I'd have the best of both worlds. Wait... There are players already doing that. LOL There's a problem with this. Manual reloading is awkward. So are interactions (hacking, climbing ladders) and things like jumping. Hybrid control is awkward and restrictive. It gives a great combination of advantages, but it also has its own disadvantages. Of course, it's better than the other hybrid option - keyboard movement, controller aim. Which I've also tried. If I could reshuffle a few buttons on the controller, it would probably be decent - though still not great. Square: Tap to reload, hold to interact (hack, enter vehicle/turret, climb ladder) Circle: Crouch Triangle: Switch weapon R2: ADS Use everything else that's in easy reach while holding the controller in your right hand, and put the left hand on the WASD keys, and you've got basically all functions in easy reach. BUT you have the worst aim and the worst movement options. So it also doesn't give an advantage. Well I'd still have the keyboard there. Tap "R" with my little finger or the curve of the controller to reload. Hold to "E" to interact. Middle mouse button actually brings up the wheel while scrolling the wheel switches weapons or hold caps lock to bring up the wheel. As far as I can tell, the missing right side controller functions can be accessed with the keyboard with a touch or press of the left little finger. I might try that out someday, but I think I'm a little too lazy and will just stick to KB/M. I know you CAN do it - like I said, I HAVE done it. But it's not as easy, fluid or intuitive as either KB+M or the Sixaxis by itself. both your "fixes" are crap..... no offense...... the better option is to use a move navigation controller with a mouse, this gives you all the buttons you need, or most of them , with out unwieldy hand movements or half held controllers. That said I dont see the point. oh and I stand corrected keyboard controller set up works well for tanks, which are easier to control on the keyboard(possible glitched?) and turrets work far better on the joystick.
OryanRyan Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2013.03.06 08:13:00 - [102] - Quote I use a controller in my left hand and a mouse in my right hand. So where would that group me, with k/m or with ds3? My vote is undecided until more info becomes available.
Bald Crusader Two Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 4	Posted - 2013.03.06 08:18:00 - [103] - Quote CCP Eterne wrote: Just to repeat what Cmdr Wang said in the other thread, there is no intent to segregate players because of controller used, only for it to play a factor in matchmaking. Additionally, this only applies to high security public matches and does not apply to null sec or corp matches. CCP Eterne wrote: ...no intent to segregate players...a factor in matchmaking. Sorry, but that doesn't add up. I would just put out there that Wang's initial statement and your Office of the CMO approved back pedaling and spin is far worse than what you are actually proposing. Making yourselves look stupid.
Syther Shadows CowTek 24	Posted - 2013.03.06 08:24:00 - [104] - Quote people using the key board and mouse they use to play dust to vote on this when most dust players don't even have a good computer and probs never go on the forums when most dust players that are on the forums use KB/M since it feels more natural to them when most dust players -le sloth face-
nakaya indigene ZionTCD Legacy Rising 46	Posted - 2013.03.06 08:31:00 - [105] - Quote don't serrate and fix the damn auto aim on joystick
Kray Dytt THE DOLLARS 11	Posted - 2013.03.06 08:53:00 - [106] - Quote The type of controller used (KB/M, Move, DS3) should not have any influence on any aspect of the game, ever. Not even as one of the criteria for matchmaking. Why? -Everyone is free to use whichever controller they prefer. If you feel KB/M is better/easier than DS3... use it. -If external factors like controllers are taken into account, where will it end? Mic availability? TV size/resolution? Heck, why not come round to my house and see how well my living room is set up? Maybe the lack of Feng Shui is ruining my game... -People would simply exploit it (hook up the KB/M after being dropped into a match). Prevent that by not recognizing plug-ins during a game? Great, so now my daughter pulls out the KB/M (which happens frequently) and I can't play the rest of the match... It's a non-issue, really. There are loads of great players who use a controller. All setups have advantages and disadvantages, it's up to each individual to choose what they prefer. If anything needs to be done, it's CCP looking into DS3 and Move controls to see if they can improve them. While they're at it, they could also allow for button configuration for KB/M so I can lob grenades without having to reposition my hand ;)
Clark Hendrix Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 4	Posted - 2013.03.06 17:21:00 - [107] - Quote Don't segregate As a DS3 player I have never felt any kind of disadvantage against other players.
Rasatsu Much Crying Old Experts 466	Posted - 2013.03.06 18:07:00 - [108] - Quote What about those of us who keep both KB, mouse and DS3 plugged in at all times? When on my infantry alt I only ever use the DS3, when on the tank guy I use both DS3 and mouse. Besides, this difference caused by the input device will be factored in through the same parameters as my game skills. E.g. it's not like I'm going to suddenly stop using the mouse when aiming, so matching me up with equally accurate DS3 guys isn't going to ruin anyone's gameplay.
Nomed Deeps The Exemplars 94	Posted - 2013.03.06 20:24:00 - [109] - Quote CCP just needs to balance them as there is greater range and speed of movement available with mouse over controller. Segregating would just be the first step in killing this game.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1867	Posted - 2013.03.07 04:51:00 - [110] - Quote Nomed Deeps wrote: CCP just needs to balance them as there is greater range and speed of movement available with mouse over controller. Segregating would just be the first step in killing this game. ...no there isn't. Turn speed caps are the same on both control schemes. Most people who are picking the game up for the first time after playing FPS games on PC find that the mouse is WEAKER against the sixaxis controller because they have to LEARN how to get the best turning speed instead of being able to just "flick" the mouse to turn instantly.

Chibi Andy Destruction Initiative Enterprise 44	Posted - 2013.03.07 07:07:00 - [111] - Quote lets say that the segregation does happen, what will happen to players from the same corp who are using KB/M and the other half the controller and they are in one squad? will the squad get broken into two games now? what happens if it was a corp match will there be two matches?? i think its pretty pointless to do any segregating
Kray Dytt THE DOLLARS 12	Posted - 2013.03.07 08:46:00 - [112] - Quote Chibi Andy wrote: lets say that the segregation does happen, what will happen to players from the same corp who are using KB/M and the other half the controller and they are in one squad? will the squad get broken into two games now? what happens if it was a corp match will there be two matches?? i think its pretty pointless to do any segregating What I've seen from CCP about this is that it would a factor in matchmaking, so it doesn't necessarily mean you have matches with only DS3 or only KB/M users, but when possible the game will try to put them together. Apparently they are already doing this based on SP and other factors (fittings? kdr? lifetime WP?). Whichever method they use for determining those factors for a whole squad now will probably apply to controller input as well. The way I see it, they either take the squad leader and base it all on his data, or take the "average" of the whole squad. I doubt it's the first method because that would mean you can play the system by choosing your squad leader wisely (i.e. make the lowest SP etc. DS3 using player the SL). So to answer your question: as far as I can tell they have not intention of splitting squads/corp matches. I don't think matchmaking even applies to corp matches... but I'm not sure.
LuckyLuke Wargan HavoK Core 36	Posted - 2013.03.08 19:01:00 - [113] - Quote It's 2013 and we are still talking about segregation, why can't we all just get along?
Canari Elphus Pro Hic Immortalis RISE of LEGION 32	Posted - 2013.03.08 19:26:00 - [114] - Quote How about they just have a sensitivity curve for the sticks that allow for fine control during aiming? I have played both and that is about the only thing I can think of that gives a mouse a little bit of an advantage.
Shijima Kuraimaru WarRavens 173	Posted - 2013.03.09 02:07:00 - [115] - Quote Canari Elphus wrote: How about they just have a sensitivity curve for the sticks that allow for fine control during aiming? I have played both and that is about the only thing I can think of that gives a mouse a little bit of an advantage. Don't get me wrong, I agree with you that an adjustable sensitivity curve option is needed for those that can't finesse their DS3 analog sticks or have controllers, like my off brand one, that has issues with the fine control because of shorter sticks, a smaller deflection angle cap, and tighter springs. But how would you propose to give better movement control to purely KB/M users, like me, to make up for the lack of fine movement control?
elmoss Bragian Order Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2013.03.20 19:00:00 - [116] - Quote im all for segregation. so ya 1
General Tiberius1 ZionTCD Legacy Rising 242	Posted - 2013.03.20 19:10:00 - [117] - Quote CCP Eterne wrote: Just to repeat what Cmdr Wang said in the other thread, there is no intent to segregate players because of controller used, only for it to play a factor in matchmaking. Additionally, this only applies to high security public matches and does not apply to null sec or corp matches. so the eve nullsec corps that live for RWT's can keep null stagnant by having a ton of dust alts and have the unfair advantage called the KB/M combo? i see dust having 0 effect on the stagnant swamp that was once null sec then
Yeva Kalsani Reckoners 3	Posted - 2013.03.20 19:34:00 - [118] - Quote 2 - Don't segregate and 3 - make joystick as good as KB for vehicles I just use a DS3 from my sofa, using a KB/M is out of the question in terms of comfort. That said, I don't want to lose the KB/M players.
Fornacis Fairchild Kat 5 Kaos 37	Posted - 2013.03.20 19:40:00 - [119] - Quote I use motion controller...I actually bunny jump around in my living room and get down and tea bag after every kill. I'm not sure why the wife and kids left....
Assi9 Ventox IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 10	Posted - 2013.03.20 20:54:00 - [120] - Quote 2 - NO just NO



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