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Beuford T Justice
Amarr Black Ops
2
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Posted - 2013.03.01 05:20:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hey folks,
First post on any forum EVER. I had to get this off my chest though. Been playing FPS's for as long as I can remember but this is the first game I have ever took time to check out the forums for advice and stuff. Noticed the back and forth nerfing post's. So naturally had to put my two cents. This is mainly for the players we all know so well that think AR's and Sub's fire 155mm arty rounds.
I am gonna give ya'll a real life break down of cal. and max effective rarget range for the modern US military small arms arsenal.
Weapons Cal. Range
M9(pistol): 9mm 50 m
M16/M4(Carbine): 5.56mm 550/500 meters (max effective point target)
SAW(LMG): 5.56mm 800 meters
240B(LMG): 7.62x51mm 1,100 m
M203: 40mm 350 meters
MK19: 40mm 1,500 meters
M2(HMG): .50 BMG 1,800 meters
M134(Minigun): 7.62x51mm 1,000 meters
Any US Sniper rifle: 7.62x51mm to .50 BMG 800meters to 1,829meters
I have trained on all above weapons and applied them in OIF III & OIF IX except sniper rifles and the mini. The most impressive destruction is delivered by MG's and grenade launchers hands down. A well trained sniper can halt combat operations for hours possibly. AR's are effective especially when employed in numbers by a maneuverable force. Submachine guns were phased
out by the advent of the carbine. Who wants a sub that fires a pistol cartridge when you can have a carbine roughly the same size?
I guess what I'm getting at is that all you nerfer's need to chill out. Especially the HMG haters. You better be glad that the "heavies" in the future only shoot what appears to be raisinettes compared to its "little brother" the AR. Sub users just sit in
the back of the class, keep your heads down and try not to get called on.
FPS's gamers this is the truth. Deal with it. I know their just games but a little dose of common since here and there don't hurt. Just once I would like to see a game with accurate representations of weapon's calibers, ranges, etc. I mean I'm not asking anyone to eat apples and crap a fruit salad. Is this unreasonable? |
Jotun Hiem
Sanmatar Kelkoons
Minmatar Republic
435
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Posted - 2013.03.01 05:23:00 -
[2] - Quote
You seem like an intelligent person.
Run while you still can.
(+1) |
Val'herik Dorn
CrimeWave Syndicate
300
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Posted - 2013.03.01 05:23:00 -
[3] - Quote
Why no real life love for my shotgun :(
Its bad kitten as well |
Beuford T Justice
Amarr Black Ops
2
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Posted - 2013.03.01 05:25:00 -
[4] - Quote
We used shotguns as tools for breaching mainly. You know the shotties are probably the most accuratley represented weapons on the game. |
DJINN leukoplast
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
292
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Posted - 2013.03.01 05:26:00 -
[5] - Quote
Real life stats =/= online video games.
/thread |
Val'herik Dorn
CrimeWave Syndicate
300
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Posted - 2013.03.01 05:27:00 -
[6] - Quote
... I want to breach things... doors I need working doors! |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
281
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Posted - 2013.03.01 05:29:00 -
[7] - Quote
DJINN leukoplast wrote:Real life stats =/= online video games.
/thread
We all know that HMG's are gimped for balance reasons, but when people start saying that it's the range that needs to get nerfed... yeah, no. |
Buster Friently
Rosen Association
35
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Posted - 2013.03.01 05:30:00 -
[8] - Quote
DJINN leukoplast wrote:Real life stats =/= online video games.
/thread
lol. That's the best you could come up with?
The OP makes a good point, especially the part where he says people should just chill out a bit on the crying for nerfs. |
Matobar
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
RISE of LEGION
129
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Posted - 2013.03.01 05:36:00 -
[9] - Quote
You need to post more often, OP. |
WyrmHero1945
IMPSwarm
Negative-Feedback
21
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Posted - 2013.03.01 05:44:00 -
[10] - Quote
See I knew HMGs had crazy range!!! That was why I felt so weird getting pwned by HMGs in CQC first time I played Dust. But if range gets buffed, how can HMGs be balanced? They can't have same from both worlds, unless....NERF THE HEAVIES. J/K btw. |
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DJINN leukoplast
Hellstorm Inc
League of Infamy
293
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Posted - 2013.03.01 05:47:00 -
[11] - Quote
Sloth9230 wrote:DJINN leukoplast wrote:Real life stats =/= online video games.
/thread We all know that HMG's are gimped for balance reasons, but when people start saying that it's the range that needs to get nerfed... yeah, no.
You still cling to real life stats, if range on a HMG unbalances the game, then it should be toned back. Doesn't matter if IRL it can lob massive chunks of lead as far as a sniper rifle or not.
Balance is everything in online games, reality be damned if it interferes with that.  |
Sloth9230
Reaper Galactic
281
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Posted - 2013.03.01 06:01:00 -
[12] - Quote
DJINN leukoplast wrote:Sloth9230 wrote:DJINN leukoplast wrote:Real life stats =/= online video games.
/thread We all know that HMG's are gimped for balance reasons, but when people start saying that it's the range that needs to get nerfed... yeah, no. You still cling to real life stats, if range on a HMG unbalances the game, then it should be toned back. Doesn't matter if IRL it can lob massive chunks of lead as far as a sniper rifle or not. Balance is everything in online games, reality be damned if it interferes with that.
I cling to real life stats because game designers choose to name their weapons after real weapons... and then make them behave differently. There's no sense in that. Why not just make up names? HMG range isn't unbalanced though, they have what, 30 feet of effective range? How is that in anyway unbalanced? That rang is only useful if a heavy is out in the open, where they're most vulnerable.
The only reason people want to nerf the range is because they're clinging to the idea that HMG's are close quarters weapons. Well if they're close quarter weapons then why didn't the devs give them a shorter range from the beginning? Because they're not just CQC weapons, imagine that 
The only real nerf HMG's need is a faster heat build up. |
Beuford T Justice
Amarr Black Ops
7
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Posted - 2013.03.01 06:13:00 -
[13] - Quote
Really I'm not saying "to nerf or not to nerf", I'm saying quit raising kane about it. I think most HMG's on the game max damage per shot is half that of the AR and less than a sub. Be glad. Let it go. You should be celebrating the HMG's handicap. I just think its funny it shoots what seems to be .22 rounds and it's a HMG.
I think players do a pretty good balancing job on their own. I have two guys a heavy and an assualt medic. The medic is the easy one to play as. As the heavy, soon as I start opening up with my "squirrel gun" HMG I become a bullet magnet for anyone in the area. I'm fine with that. It's just like reality.
Those stats I originally posted are 100% true. Whats not up there is the doctorine that states that upon contact with an MG, heavy or light, you can do two things. Break contact or destroy it. If you choose to destroy it, it becomes the primary target of your element. Sound familiar? Happens in dust every day without anyone even noticing. Besides the noobs who go "Rambo"! |
JW v Weingarten
SyNergy Gaming
306
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Posted - 2013.03.01 06:35:00 -
[14] - Quote
Lolreallifestats, this is a GAME, not real life.
CCP needs to stop letting us respawn, so unrealistic with the clones and stuff.
Wait a second...... :O its a game so it does not need to be realistic. |
Beuford T Justice
Amarr Black Ops
10
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Posted - 2013.03.01 06:42:00 -
[15] - Quote
JW v Weingarten wrote:Lolreallifestats, this is a GAME, not real life.
CCP needs to stop letting us respawn, so unrealistic with the clones and stuff.
Wait a second...... :O its a game so it does not need to be realistic.
You know what I mean. I agree with you it's a game. I'm just trying to take a stand against nerf-o-facists. |
Jotun Hiem
Sanmatar Kelkoons
Minmatar Republic
436
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Posted - 2013.03.01 06:42:00 -
[16] - Quote
JW v Weingarten wrote:Lolreallifestats, this is a GAME, not real life.
CCP needs to stop letting us respawn, so unrealistic with the clones and stuff.
Wait a second...... :O its a game so it does not need to be realistic.
*Whoooosh*
That was the sound of the OP's point flying right over your head. |
Buzzwords
Deadly Blue Dots
RISE of LEGION
421
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Posted - 2013.03.01 06:44:00 -
[17] - Quote
Beuford T Justice wrote:Just once I would like to see a game with accurate representations of weapon's calibers, ranges, etc.
sorry man but that's just not this game. you didn't even pick a game that was CLOSE. maybe try for ARMA III? hell, the no respawn modes in CoD are prolly closer to "reality" than this.
this game is set so far in the future we've lost track of earth. reality is out the window. it's a game not a simulation. not to mention all the relativity we're ignoring.
me, i like my games to be more "balanced" or "good" than "realistic" hell i'll fire magical goblin teeth at my enemy if it deals reasonable DPS. but if they deal to much DPS, then go ahead and nerf them, regardless of how much damage a REAL magical goblin tooth would do. and i think most people don't care so much about "realism" as they care about "convincing fantasy" even if they don't realise it. they don't want the illusion to crumble in front of their eyes, but that doesn't mean it has to be ACCURATE, it just has to lie well. |
Tiel Syysch
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
644
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Posted - 2013.03.01 06:53:00 -
[18] - Quote
If your justification for balance is "real life," I expect you to argue for lower, non-regenerating health and stripping of all futuristic items and concepts used in the game as well. At least be consistent. |
Jotun Hiem
Sanmatar Kelkoons
Minmatar Republic
437
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Posted - 2013.03.01 07:00:00 -
[19] - Quote
I-I'm sorry, mister OP.
There isn't enough *Whooosh* to go around. ;-; |
Beuford T Justice
Amarr Black Ops
10
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Posted - 2013.03.01 07:16:00 -
[20] - Quote
Tiel Syysch wrote:If your justification for balance is "real life," I expect you to argue for lower, non-regenerating health and stripping of all futuristic items and concepts used in the game as well. At least be consistent.
This is the reason I titled it FPS. I was trying to refer to all FPS's. It's not a slam on Dust. I want to be clear. I made the this post and used the real life examples as a base line. I was simply using it to make the point that the game is fine. I think the whole nerf thing is getting out of control. If the majority of players used subs and thought they were under powered should they get a tune up? If they thought AR's had too much range should they get nerfed? Think about it.
Yes I would like to see a game with close to the same damage or at least same concept to the original as possible while being compettetive and fun. I think that......Whoa!
You mean you don't own a laser rifle and have regenerating health!? Are you poor or something? |
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KripnawtiQ Prime
L.O.T.I.S.
Legacy Rising
214
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Posted - 2013.03.01 07:50:00 -
[21] - Quote
+1 good stuff.
Non abjective post regarding nerf arguments supported by some factual information. Danger...intelligence! |
Matobar
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
RISE of LEGION
129
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Posted - 2013.03.01 07:50:00 -
[22] - Quote
OP, you might be my new favorite person. |
Rasatsu
Much Crying Old Experts
447
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Posted - 2013.03.01 10:01:00 -
[23] - Quote
Relying on the kinetic energy of a bit of lead? How quaint.
I hear BB guns also have a role on the battlefield. But if you want to kill a DUST merc you'll need an assault rifle that shoots bolts of charged plasma held together by a strong magnetic field that collapses when it hits the target.
Sadly, unlike the pieces of lead you so love to shoot around, the magnetic field of the plasma bolt doesn't last very long.
http://dust514.com/news/blog/2011/12/infantry-weapons-in-dust-514-1/
Now get updated on the backstory, and perhaps you can give some slightly more 'useful' feedback. |
Jack McReady
A.C.M.E Corp
73
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Posted - 2013.03.01 10:02:00 -
[24] - Quote
actually MP7 is widely used where space is a limiting factor, e.g. by tank crews. penetrates body armor like butter, 200m effective range, size of a pistol.
now compare this to the SMG ingame. range of 15meter, horrible accuracy and due to this takes several seconds of concentrated fire to get through the armor of a heavy. |
Karl Koekwaus
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
32
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Posted - 2013.03.01 12:29:00 -
[25] - Quote
Rasatsu wrote:Relying on the kinetic energy of a bit of lead? How quaint. I hear BB guns also have a role on the battlefield. But if you want to kill a DUST merc you'll need an assault rifle that shoots bolts of charged plasma held together by a strong magnetic field that collapses when it hits the target. Sadly, unlike the pieces of lead you so love to shoot around, the magnetic field of the plasma bolt doesn't last very long. http://dust514.com/news/blog/2011/12/infantry-weapons-in-dust-514-1/Now get updated on the backstory, and perhaps you can give some slightly more 'useful' feedback.
I wanted to post this, but instead he posted it already, so I just gave him a like for it.
if DUST guns were real, you would die while holding them without protective suit. |
Rei Shepard
Spectre II
78
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Posted - 2013.03.01 13:02:00 -
[26] - Quote
Well in RL...
...The guy you just shot doesn't stand back up and calls a Nerf to the weapon used against him.
...The maps don't have boundaries
...Troops don't spawn in mid-air
...You don't have FPS issues due to slow hardware and if your hardware is slow, you won't be allowed on the front-line
...Its never gonna be same numbers vs each other
...Your never going to hit something at 500m away with iron sights, just because the gun can fire so far
...No one is going to rush you if you are packing any kind of weapon on the battlefield...unless they are suicide bombers
...We don't have clipping issues & draw problems with our eyes just because they are an older version
...and even if you do have eye issues, a simple glass plate in front of it fixes that
...if they can fix it with unmanned crafts, yer ******
...If you get shot, the last thing you think about is OMFG Nerf that gun, its gonna be MEDIC!!!
...1 stray bullet can **** up your day and there no nanite injector handy
...Not being able to respawn is a real *****
...the world doesn't need to calculate where every bullet is going
...trained professionals don't bunny-hop when you shoot them in the back
comparing game ranges to RL is really not possible there are too much server restraints preventing that...
|
Aighun
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
667
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Posted - 2013.03.01 13:36:00 -
[27] - Quote
Rasatsu wrote:Relying on the kinetic energy of a bit of lead? How quaint. I hear BB guns also have a role on the battlefield. But if you want to kill a DUST merc you'll need an assault rifle that shoots bolts of charged plasma held together by a strong magnetic field that collapses when it hits the target. Sadly, unlike the pieces of lead you so love to shoot around, the magnetic field of the plasma bolt doesn't last very long. http://dust514.com/news/blog/2011/12/infantry-weapons-in-dust-514-1/Now get updated on the backstory, and perhaps you can give some slightly more 'useful' feedback.
Ha, yes. Our weapons in Dust are so advanced they are much less powerful than kinetic weapons used on Earth today.
The HMG and SMG have shells and look a lot like kinetic weapons to me. Could be wrong. |
Beuford T Justice
Amarr Black Ops
24
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Posted - 2013.03.01 14:31:00 -
[28] - Quote
Jack McReady wrote:actually MP7 is widely used where space is a limiting factor, e.g. by tank crews. penetrates body armor like butter, 200m effective range, size of a pistol.
now compare this to the SMG ingame. weakest dps, range of 15meter, horrible accuracy and due to this takes several seconds of concentrated fire to get through the armor of a heavy. specialist shotgun has minimal fitting requirements, why whould you ever use the SMG over of the specialist shotgun?
Do not know where the MP7 is widley used. I think the Navy may use it for something. US tank crews are issued the carbine. MP is that HK? Maybe Germany?
Rasatsu and Rei....You are killing me smalls. I don't know what the heck this has to do with what I'm saying at all?! So you a nerfer? I don't understand. Rei you're conveying this is not real life. Suprisingly I agree.  Dust has a unique opprotunity to balance here. The economy and SP. Those can be employed to balance the game as well. If a weapon is heavy it should be more expensive. Not expensive and just a lil better than an AR. Thats the Point of heavy weapons right? Or are things so diffrent in the not RL future?
Rasatsu, you had me read that for?? It says the weapons on this game would pwn any on a modern battlefield. Well I got news for you, BF3 weapons etc. would pwn these. This being said it's not the point I was trying to make either.
I guess there's only a couple of folks who understand what I been trying to say. You others I'm not responding to anymore. The post was meant to make nerfers think about real life stats before they start crying nerf for the sake of "balance". You want true balance go play checkers with yourself. |
Ops Fox
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
197
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Posted - 2013.03.01 15:09:00 -
[29] - Quote
Rasatsu wrote:Relying on the kinetic energy of a bit of lead? How quaint. I hear BB guns also have a role on the battlefield. But if you want to kill a DUST merc you'll need an assault rifle that shoots bolts of charged plasma held together by a strong magnetic field that collapses when it hits the target. Sadly, unlike the pieces of lead you so love to shoot around, the magnetic field of the plasma bolt doesn't last very long. http://dust514.com/news/blog/2011/12/infantry-weapons-in-dust-514-1/Now get updated on the backstory, and perhaps you can give some slightly more 'useful' feedback.
Minmatar use kinetic weapons the SMG and HMG in the game are minmatar weapons, So why dont you get upto date on the backstory? |
Ranger SnakeBlood
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
127
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Posted - 2013.03.01 15:43:00 -
[30] - Quote
Yor points are very good and i hope that the game does get a bit more realistic stay futureistic i dont understand why people would say that you are looking for futureistic gear to be removed as its not realistic but to some extent it is its possible in the future but there is no way in hell guns are going to get worse between now and a few thousand years, projectile weapons like the HMG have much greater range than in this but to say its going to hit is another matter entirly so their is balence for you a weapon like that can be held stready with a tripod but i highly doubht a person can also a HMG is vaslt more expenceive to get and run than a AR,
Also something that should be taken into account is that current AR should not have same range as a Projectile AR current one uses plama tecknology which is shorter range. Another thing probably worth noteing is that weapons in this game are designed for DUST mercs not ment for use by mortals the recoil along would break bones so it is quite possible projectile weapons for example AR of some kind could have a high callibar shooting a .50 or something
Good post OP well done good numbers |
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