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Hagintora
Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation
32
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Posted - 2013.03.01 16:05:00 -
[31] - Quote
I think people get the wording confused when they talk about "realism", and things being "realistic" in games. As has been mentioned before, "realism" would make the game highly unbalanced, and ultimately, not very fun. It's supposed to be a game, not a simulator. That being said, I think what most people are actually concerned about is "plausability", and "consistancy". Are the weapons and equipment plausible enough that people can accept them at face value? Do the weapons/equipment operate consistantly within the universe? Do they stay consitant with the Errata/Lore that explains their use and function?
Things like the Sniper Rifle, for instance. If you added in Travel Time, and Bullet Drop to the game, there would be little to no difference in what we see right now. At least for the Railguns anyway. If they add a Non Railgun/Energy standard projectile Sniper Rifle to the game, then they can start adding physics and such to the weapons.
The OP makes a valid point. For the people crying "Nerf" for realism sake, read the OP again and realize why that's a bad idea. Reality is great jumping off point for games (well...the only jumping off point, really), but the balance of the game has to be consistant with the Lore and the "science" being utilized within the universe. |
semperfi1999
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
318
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Posted - 2013.03.01 16:53:00 -
[32] - Quote
I have regenerating health...
But its slower and I have to eat properly for it to work very well. It can be sad how long it takes but it does regenerate...unless I have something completely removed....that wont regenerate. So yea this is very life like.
I u/s your point the truth is when it comes to game balance>>>>>>>>realism especially when the game is based on futuristic technology. Right now there are several issues with the HMG and possibly just one of them needs to be adjusted. Issue #1 is using a mouse completely disregards the max turn speeds the different suits are supposed to have. Issue #2 HMGs do massive dmg accurately at ranges where the AR only does 50% dmg. There are some possible fixes to HMG either A) reduce the total range that the HMG is effective in or B) increase the spread of the HMG making it less accurate at distance but still beastly at close ranges. |
Beuford T Justice
Amarr Black Ops
29
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Posted - 2013.03.01 17:02:00 -
[33] - Quote
[quote=Hagintora The OP makes a valid point. For the people crying "Nerf" for realism sake, read the OP again and realize why that's a bad idea. Reality is great jumping off point for games (well...the only jumping off point, really), but the balance of the game has to be consistant with the Lore and the "science" being utilized within the universe.[/quote]
Ok, great post. That's half of what I'm saying. I think a lot of the confusion here is coming from the fact that I was OP about FPS and nerfers in general. I also said I would like to see a game that accuratley represented blah, blah. I should have elaborated more. I would like to see a game that stuck to its real life counterpart more and see how much hell everyone raised then.
In regards to dust I was saying cut out the nerf wars. I was using real life as a base line to say that. If it gets too real there's gonna be issues, if everything gets nerfed there's gonna be issues. I know it's the future but the weapons represented are based on reality too an extent. If we dumb it down too much are we really doing anyone any favors? Notice not once did I mention energy based weaponry. I didn't realize I was gonna have fanboy's of diffrent weapon systems blowing their O-rings all over the forums. I like dust over many FPS's as it is, including COD.
Bottom line quit crying nerf. Do research on what your raising hell about. Adapt and Overcome. |
Rasatsu
Much Crying Old Experts
452
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Posted - 2013.03.01 17:26:00 -
[34] - Quote
Aighun wrote:Rasatsu wrote:Relying on the kinetic energy of a bit of lead? How quaint. I hear BB guns also have a role on the battlefield. But if you want to kill a DUST merc you'll need an assault rifle that shoots bolts of charged plasma held together by a strong magnetic field that collapses when it hits the target. Sadly, unlike the pieces of lead you so love to shoot around, the magnetic field of the plasma bolt doesn't last very long. http://dust514.com/news/blog/2011/12/infantry-weapons-in-dust-514-1/Now get updated on the backstory, and perhaps you can give some slightly more 'useful' feedback. Ha, yes. Our weapons in Dust are so advanced they are much less powerful than kinetic weapons used on Earth today. The HMG and SMG have shells and look a lot like kinetic weapons to me. Could be wrong. Oh yes, when I said PLASMA BOLT contained by a MAGNETIC FIELD, it obviously implies a PLASMA BOLT is less devastating to FUTURE OMGWTFBBQ HIGH-TECH ARMOR than INERT MASS. Now, you might be right that your INERT LEAD/URANIUM bullets might fly further, however what good is it when they have the same impact as BB NERF GUN BULLETS?
(Note; Use of capital words is in an effort to highlight the important parts of the above text for the slow readers, e.g. OP)
Also we have yet to come across any example of inert mass projectiles, and until SMG and HMG get a devblog we won't know. |
DeltaTango19
Killshot Corp
23
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Posted - 2013.03.01 17:29:00 -
[35] - Quote
OP, I understand your point about the non-sense of nerf threads and agree with you. I would like to point out that these drop suits have shields and serious armor. Dusts Gun's and amunition might actually match caliburs and distances equivelent to IRL guns, its just that they might do no damage at thier max ranges due to shields and armor. My friend was shot with a 9mm bullet at range without body armor in Iraq, and it did not penetrate the skin. My point is that while dust guns might be capable of killing an un-armored civilian at similar ranges to irl guns, we are fighting well armored super soldiers. |
Jotun Hiem
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
451
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Posted - 2013.03.01 17:49:00 -
[36] - Quote
Rasatsu wrote:Oh yes, when I said PLASMA BOLT contained by a MAGNETIC FIELD, it obviously implies a PLASMA BOLT is less devastating to FUTURE OMGWTFBBQ HIGH-TECH ARMOR than INERT MASS. Now, you might be right that your INERT LEAD/URANIUM bullets might fly further, however what good is it when they have the same impact as BB NERF GUN BULLETS?
(Note; Use of capital words is in an effort to highlight the important parts of the above text for the slow readers, e.g. OP)
Also we have yet to come across any example of inert mass projectiles, and until SMG and HMG get a devblog we won't know. Uhm... yes we will. We already do know.
Minmatar weapons use modern bullets. They're the only race that still uses completely mechanical firearms. This is like, EvE lore 101 man. Actually, just look at the damn weapon descriptions in the market. They clearly tell you what type of ammo both the HMG and SMG use.
And you're use of capitalization and over-the-top exaggeration only serves to make you look an idiot. Consider italics next time. |
Hagintora
Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation
33
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Posted - 2013.03.01 17:58:00 -
[37] - Quote
Beuford T Justice wrote:Hagintora The OP makes a valid point. For the people crying "Nerf" for realism sake, read the OP again and realize why that's a bad idea. Reality is great jumping off point for games (well...the only jumping off point, really), but the balance of the game has to be consistant with the Lore and the "science" being utilized within the universe. Ok, great post. That's half of what I'm saying. I think a lot of the confusion here is coming from the fact that I was OP about FPS and nerfers in general. I also said I would like to see a game that accuratley represented blah, blah. I should have elaborated more. I would like to see a game that stuck to its real life counterpart more and see how much hell everyone raised then. In regards to dust I was saying cut out the nerf wars. I was using real life as a base line to say that. If it gets too real there's gonna be issues, if everything gets nerfed there's gonna be issues. I know it's the future but the weapons represented are based on reality too an extent. If we dumb it down too much are we really doing anyone any favors? Notice not once did I mention energy based weaponry. I didn't realize I was gonna have fanboy's of diffrent weapon systems blowing their O-rings all over the forums[:lol: wrote: . I like dust over many FPS's as it is, including COD.
Bottom line quit crying nerf. Do research on what your raising hell about. Adapt and Overcome.
As soon as anybody mentions "realism" in game, there's immediately going to be a whole bunch of people ready to jump up and explain to you all the different reasons why it isn't real. As a wanna be writer, I've tried to remove the words "realistic", and "realism" from my vocabulary when it comes to anything remotely story related. It's why I use "Plausible", and "Consistant" instead.
Most of my post wasn't aimed at you, but I can see why you would think that it was. I actually agree with you on all of your points. Keep posting, and don't let the Beuford T. Justice Jr's get you down. (You've seen the movie, so you know what that means ). |
Severus Smith
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
169
|
Posted - 2013.03.01 18:21:00 -
[38] - Quote
Why does everyone want everything perfectly balanced. Balance is the opposite of chaos. And chaos is what New Eden was built on. I'd rather have crazy OP everything, where the battlefield is a chaotic mess than a perfectly balanced FPS.
War isn't balanced. And this is a futuristic war game. Adapt and survive. |
Hagintora
Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation
36
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Posted - 2013.03.01 18:26:00 -
[39] - Quote
Severus Smith wrote:Why does everyone want everything perfectly balanced. Balance is the opposite of chaos. And chaos is what New Eden was built on. I'd rather have crazy OP everything, where the battlefield is a chaotic mess than a perfectly balanced FPS.
War isn't balanced. And this is a futuristic war game. Adapt and survive.
Actually war is pretty balanced if you're talking about two standing armies facing off against each other. The chaos on the battlefield doesn't come from the weapons, it comes from how those weapons are used. It comes from the people, which is the only thing that a game can't balance out. Balance the weapons, give them to the players, and watch the chaos insue. |
Beuford T Justice
Amarr Black Ops
34
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Posted - 2013.03.01 18:42:00 -
[40] - Quote
Hagintora wrote:Severus Smith wrote:Why does everyone want everything perfectly balanced. Balance is the opposite of chaos. And chaos is what New Eden was built on. I'd rather have crazy OP everything, where the battlefield is a chaotic mess than a perfectly balanced FPS.
War isn't balanced. And this is a futuristic war game. Adapt and survive. Actually war is pretty balanced if you're talking about two standing armies facing off against each other. The chaos on the battlefield doesn't come from the weapons, it comes from how those weapons are used. It comes from the people, which is the only thing that a game can't balance out. Balance the weapons, give them to the players, and watch the chaos insue. .
Somebody shoulda told the Aztecs that when Cortez landed... |
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Beuford T Justice
Amarr Black Ops
34
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Posted - 2013.03.01 18:58:00 -
[41] - Quote
Jotun Hiem wrote:Rasatsu wrote:Oh yes, when I said PLASMA BOLT contained by a MAGNETIC FIELD, it obviously implies a PLASMA BOLT is less devastating to FUTURE OMGWTFBBQ HIGH-TECH ARMOR than INERT MASS. Now, you might be right that your INERT LEAD/URANIUM bullets might fly further, however what good is it when they have the same impact as BB NERF GUN BULLETS?
(Note; Use of capital words is in an effort to highlight the important parts of the above text for the slow readers, e.g. OP)
Also we have yet to come across any example of inert mass projectiles, and until SMG and HMG get a devblog we won't know. Uhm... yes we will. We already do know. Minmatar weapons use modern bullets. They're the only race that still uses completely mechanical firearms. This is like, EvE lore 101 man. Actually, just look at the damn weapon descriptions in the market. They clearly tell you what type of ammo both the HMG and SMG use. And you're use of capitalization and over-the-top exaggeration only serves to make you look an idiot. Consider italics next time.
And I bet he smells like POOP. |
Hagintora
Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation
39
|
Posted - 2013.03.01 19:01:00 -
[42] - Quote
Beuford T Justice wrote:Somebody shoulda told the Aztecs that when Cortez landed...
I looked it up (see, research!). If it hadn't been for smallpox and famine, I don't think Cortez would've have made it out alive. |
Sontie
VENGEANCE FOR HIRE
103
|
Posted - 2013.03.01 19:02:00 -
[43] - Quote
Cortez has a hard counter. It's called greed and avarice will eventually lead to the destruction of mankind. |
Beuford T Justice
Amarr Black Ops
34
|
Posted - 2013.03.01 19:33:00 -
[44] - Quote
Hagintora wrote:Beuford T Justice wrote:Somebody shoulda told the Aztecs that when Cortez landed... I looked it up (see, research!). If it hadn't been for smallpox and famine, I don't think Cortez would've have made it out alive.
LOL good deal! I think the Aztec king had something to do with it too. Something about a myth if memory serves... |
Kwik Draw
Traitors Function
4
|
Posted - 2013.03.01 19:48:00 -
[45] - Quote
Beuford T Justice wrote:Hey folks,
First post on any forum EVER. I had to get this off my chest though. Been playing FPS's for as long as I can remember but this is the first game I have ever took time to check out the forums for advice and stuff. Noticed the back and forth nerfing post's. So naturally had to put my two cents. This is mainly for the players we all know so well that think AR's and Sub's fire 155mm arty rounds. I am gonna give ya'll a real life break down of cal. and max effective rarget range for the modern US military small arms arsenal.
Weapons Cal. Range
M9(pistol): 9mm 50 m
M16/M4(Carbine): 5.56mm 550/500 meters (max effective point target)
SAW(LMG): 5.56mm 800 meters
240B(LMG): 7.62x51mm 1,100 m
M203: 40mm 350 meters
MK19: 40mm 1,500 meters
M2(HMG): .50 BMG 1,800 meters
M134(Minigun): 7.62x51mm 1,000 meters
Any US Sniper rifle: 7.62x51mm to .50 BMG 800meters to 1,829meters
I have trained on all above weapons and applied them in OIF III & OIF IX except sniper rifles and the mini. The most impressive destruction is delivered by MG's and grenade launchers hands down. A well trained sniper can halt combat operations for hours possibly. AR's are effective especially when employed in numbers by a maneuverable force. Submachine guns were phased out by the advent of the carbine. Who wants a sub that fires a pistol cartridge when you can have a carbine roughly the same size?
I guess what I'm getting at is that all you nerfer's need to chill out. Especially the HMG haters. You better be glad that the "heavies" in the future only shoot what appears to be raisinettes compared to its "little brother" the AR. Sub users just sit in the back of the class, keep your heads down and try not to get called on.
FPS's gamers this is the truth. Deal with it. I know their just games but a little dose of common since here and there don't hurt. Just once I would like to see a game with accurate representations of weapon's calibers, ranges, etc. I mean I'm not asking anyone to eat apples and crap a fruit salad. Is this unreasonable?
..That mind of urs.... i need u in my Corp. join me - Traitors Function.
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