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Overwhelming new/ casual players possible solution

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Bogon Vdemotch Expert Intervention Caldari State 2	Posted - 2013.03.05 07:32:00 - [31] - Quote Actually,I think it does behoove them to simplify, and more importantly, focus. There's really no call for 3 different scanning skills; that's not depth, that's just being needlessly fiddly with your skill system (doubly so as the scanning skills don't seem to do anything). Now that fiddleyness is fine for a MMORPG ruled entirely by 100 per second automated number checks. However, the real time demands of an FPS really do not suit that layer of detail. Results are measured in fractions of seconds, not aggregated over a 1000 checks. As it stands now, there just are not enough constraints on anything to make any skill choice interesting or compelling; Last buid i spent 2.5 mil sp on dropship skills and I'm not sure i ended up with anything better than i could have done with militia ships with general skills. Weapon skills and shield skills and call it a day seems to be the current build in a nutshell, Until you place real constraints on weapons, vehicles and suits, its not going to really matter at all. EVE is great, but Dust will need to be designed to its own needs if its going to succeed.
Canari Elphus Pro Hic Immortalis RISE of LEGION 18	Posted - 2013.03.05 19:46:00 - [32] - Quote I dont think we need to dumb it down too much.. what I think would be good is a few 'premade' suits up to 2nd tier (Type II) for the different classes. The info on the suits would explain their purpose and give some general ideas of what skills would be preferable for that suit (though not all would be mandatory). Its one things to teach people what does what but the best way is to give them a goal. That allows the newberries a little more comfort room to get used to the system before throwing them to the wolves.
Red Dot 24601-HA S.e.V.e.N. 38	Posted - 2013.03.06 23:40:00 - [33] - Quote Canari Elphus wrote: I dont think we need to dumb it down too much.. what I think would be good is a few 'premade' suits up to 2nd tier (Type II) for the different classes. The info on the suits would explain their purpose and give some general ideas of what skills would be preferable for that suit (though not all would be mandatory). Its one things to teach people what does what but the best way is to give them a goal. That allows the newberries a little more comfort room to get used to the system before throwing them to the wolves. Thats a good suggestion. Iwas kinda thinking the path system would keep the player informed as they progress down the path and would also help them understand the role of each skill as they learned it. It could be displayed like a skill tree or something so there is a visual representation of their progress. The paths should probably end at or before advanced gear. Then if they want they can choose a new path or venture on their own.
S Park Finner BetaMax. 94	Posted - 2013.03.07 01:10:00 - [34] - Quote I've been watching youtube videos of new DUST 514 players and I caught a bit of the Escapist Magazine live feed. New players are just lost. The starter fits, now that the game has been around for a while, are death traps. In the name of giving new players a quick way to get into the fight they turn them into hamburger. The tutorials are ignored. The screen with directions pops up. There is a second or two hesitation, GÇ£Do you want to know more?GÇ¥ GÇô GÇ£No wayGÇ¥ says the player. Click. The problem seems to be that new players don't get the core mechanics of skill books, skill advancement, and how they tie to purchasing equipment and fitting. I saw a staff member at the Escapist buy multiple copies of skill books thinking that was how you advanced skill. The also wanted to buy all the skill books they were qualified for just because the skill description seemed interesting. They didn't have any idea of a skill acquisition plan based on play style. I was thinking a mandatory, interactive tutorial GÇ£How do you like to play an FPS?GÇ¥ where the new player has to answer questions and in the process learns how to buy skill books, advance skills, purchase equipment and fit a dropsuit to achieve their goals. It would be a lot of work for the developers but there's a chance it could pay off big with better starter fits. In another thread I suggested a GÇ£Mentor ModeGÇ¥ where the player's screen was echoed to another player and they were in a common chat channel. The GÇ£MentorGÇ¥ could give advice or evaluate the player for a corporation. It might be possible for friends / corp-mates to help each other out a little easier if there was something like that.
Red Dot 24601-HA S.e.V.e.N. 38	Posted - 2013.03.07 02:43:00 - [35] - Quote S Park Finner wrote: I've been watching youtube videos of new DUST 514 players and I caught a bit of the Escapist Magazine live feed. New players are just lost. The starter fits, now that the game has been around for a while, are death traps. In the name of giving new players a quick way to get into the fight they turn them into hamburger. The tutorials are ignored. The screen with directions pops up. There is a second or two hesitation, GÇ£Do you want to know more?GÇ¥ GÇô GÇ£No wayGÇ¥ says the player. Click. The problem seems to be that new players don't get the core mechanics of skill books, skill advancement, and how they tie to purchasing equipment and fitting. I saw a staff member at the Escapist buy multiple copies of skill books thinking that was how you advanced skill. The also wanted to buy all the skill books they were qualified for just because the skill description seemed interesting. They didn't have any idea of a skill acquisition plan based on play style. I was thinking a mandatory, interactive tutorial GÇ£How do you like to play an FPS?GÇ¥ where the new player has to answer questions and in the process learns how to buy skill books, advance skills, purchase equipment and fit a dropsuit to achieve their goals. It would be a lot of work for the developers but there's a chance it could pay off big with better starter fits. In another thread I suggested a GÇ£Mentor ModeGÇ¥ where the player's screen was echoed to another player and they were in a common chat channel. The GÇ£MentorGÇ¥ could give advice or evaluate the player for a corporation. It might be possible for friends / corp-mates to help each other out a little easier if there was something like that. These are great ideas as well. I watched the tutorials when I first started in the closed beta a few months ago and honestly they told you nothing. Just how to navigate the menus. The mentor sounds like a cool idea and is similar to the trainer ideas earlier in the thread. There are a lot of possibilites hopefull ccp will consider some of them.
Fraceska Opus Arcana Orion Empire 86	Posted - 2013.03.07 02:52:00 - [36] - Quote When I first played EvE it took me 3 characters to make one that was even playable. Since then EvE's learning curve as come down with a simplified character creation system. It rewards players who are smart and take time to train clinically instead of jumping right into the next tier of ships and trying to pilot a BC with electronics/engineering/mechanics 1, they practically screamed shoot me and the little devil on my shoulder twisted my arm until I did. What made EvE easier to grasp was those certifications. You could clearly see what was needed to get to where you wanted and most recently it started to calculate Years/Months/Days to get there. Once they bring that to Dust and give us an in depth tutorial like EvE has then there will be no excuse to not understanding the game. Nothing more frustrating in EvE than chatting with Corp and a new player hops on "How do I do.." then it is "Did you do the tutorial?" "No I skipped it". My concern is that in keeping the game like EvE (Which I have no problem with) it limits the available customer base which will always keep the game small just like it is with EvE. So do they appeal to a wider market and dumb it down or do they stay true to their core group of fans (like most of us are).
Thrillhouse Van Houten Expert Intervention Caldari State 17	Posted - 2013.03.07 05:16:00 - [37] - Quote I think their GOAL is to appeal to a wider group than the Eve'ers and in order to do that they have to dumb it down. This game is already dumbed down compared to Eve. Maybe that is just because they don't have as many weapons, modules, dropsuits, vehicles, etc... as they plan to have but I doubt it. In terms of roles, there are only COMBAT roles in Dust. In Eve, you practically never have to leave a station if you don't want to. I could have (assuming the know how) hopped in a Cal shuttle on day 1, flew to Jita 4/4 and made myself into a billionaire in 3 weeks. Not likely fresh of the capsuleer employment line, but possible. You could become a research scientist, an industrialist, non-combat explorer chasing down WHs for a corporate pension...you name it. You didn't just have to choose Launchers or Turrets? Shield tank or Armor? Passive or Active? Frigate or Cruiser or BC or BS? A good chunk of the skills in the game are not directly tied to combat. Not so in Dust. Thus, the number of things for a new guy to choose are pretty minimal in the grand scheme. It is (relatively) simple. It is hardly TOO COMPLICATED for the average person to understand. The problem isn't that its too hard for people to understand. It is that they aren't getting ANY explanation and they don't care enough to go looking. Tutorials are practically useless. Most people skip the stupid things and FPS gamers WILL skip the stupid things. Many FPS gamers just want to play the game. Putting token tutorials in and justifying the lack of "easy mode" by pointing and saying "see, you have tutorials" isn't going to make new people and the typical FPS gamer stick around to play. Easy mode suit and skill configurations will. So CCP should make them. Make them cost 10% or 15% over market cost, basically as a punitive tax on being lazy. Call it pandering to the lazy dummies who don't really want to play Dust but just ANY shooter outer there because that is what it is. Pandering. That doesn't mean it isn't worth it to keep the players active and around. We NEED the population a shooter calls to the table. It'll make the game more vibrant and alive in the long run to have those massive number of boots on the ground. We should all want those boots crunching... I say let the people who want to think and make fancy strategies and conquer planets and make clever suit fits so that and let the people who just want to shoot stuff do that. The two don't combine into
Fraceska Opus Arcana Orion Empire 97	Posted - 2013.03.07 05:30:00 - [38] - Quote In a way that will happen. There will be public matches and then there will be null sec. I hope to improve enough to go where the major stuff happens. Why be an immortal warrior if I am just shooting someone in the face? I want to be an immortal warrior kicking down the gates of Heaven!
RINON114 B.S.A.A. 30	Posted - 2013.03.07 06:51:00 - [39] - Quote People are, in general, quite lazy or they don't have the time. I am not one of these people but I do know many of them. Fast track is a good idea.
RINON114 B.S.A.A. 30	Posted - 2013.03.07 10:30:00 - [40] - Quote Chinduko wrote: I would love to see a respec or reallocation of skill points. People will make a ton of mistakes with SP so offering this would help. Good idea! +1 Also I was thinking, when they bring in certificates then players could be presented with a choice of basic certificates to begin with, much like they are with the current "classes". The certificates would the automatically purchase and train the relevant skills to complete the certificate, giving the simplest basic course of how skills work. This could obviously be done for advanced certificates too. Just pick the profession you want and follow the yellow brick road.

Red Dot 24601-HA S.e.V.e.N. 40	Posted - 2013.03.07 22:25:00 - [41] - Quote RINON114 wrote: Chinduko wrote: I would love to see a respec or reallocation of skill points. People will make a ton of mistakes with SP so offering this would help. Good idea! +1 Also I was thinking, when they bring in certificates then players could be presented with a choice of basic certificates to begin with, much like they are with the current "classes". The certificates would the automatically purchase and train the relevant skills to complete the certificate, giving the simplest basic course of how skills work. This could obviously be done for advanced certificates too. Just pick the profession you want and follow the yellow brick road. Edit: I think this is where PvE would definitely improve the state of things. The game could begin with you just being alone in one of the maps, a timer in the corner and some text on the screen: "Two minutes until enemy reinforcements arrive". As a new player you are shown the intro skill screen (what type of player are you) and you shoot stuff right away. The first round is easy and you can destroy everything in minutes. A supply depot is dropped next to you and you are told by a mysterious voice to hack it, so you do. Now access fittings and restock ammo or give another class a go. Fight off another wave and you get told to escape. Call for aerial support and high tail it to a pre-determined exit zone in your fast as hell LAV. There you go CCP, I just wrote your tutorial for you :) It actually sounds a lot like the tutorials in MAG. Just without the PvE. The main thing that confuses people though is the skills and their function and dropsuit fittings. These need a good in depth tutorial or training program to help people understand it better.
RINON114 B.S.A.A. 36	Posted - 2013.03.13 09:27:00 - [42] - Quote Red Dot 24601-HA wrote: RINON114 wrote: Chinduko wrote: I would love to see a respec or reallocation of skill points. People will make a ton of mistakes with SP so offering this would help. Good idea! +1 Also I was thinking, when they bring in certificates then players could be presented with a choice of basic certificates to begin with, much like they are with the current "classes". The certificates would the automatically purchase and train the relevant skills to complete the certificate, giving the simplest basic course of how skills work. This could obviously be done for advanced certificates too. Just pick the profession you want and follow the yellow brick road. Edit: I think this is where PvE would definitely improve the state of things. The game could begin with you just being alone in one of the maps, a timer in the corner and some text on the screen: "Two minutes until enemy reinforcements arrive". As a new player you are shown the intro skill screen (what type of player are you) and you shoot stuff right away. The first round is easy and you can destroy everything in minutes. A supply depot is dropped next to you and you are told by a mysterious voice to hack it, so you do. Now access fittings and restock ammo or give another class a go. Fight off another wave and you get told to escape. Call for aerial support and high tail it to a pre-determined exit zone in your fast as hell LAV. There you go CCP, I just wrote your tutorial for you :) It actually sounds a lot like the tutorials in MAG. Just without the PvE. The main thing that confuses people though is the skills and their function and dropsuit fittings. These need a good in depth tutorial or training program to help people understand it better. The SP tutorial would come after that first PvE engagement and as soon as you return to merc quarters. You are stuck in the starting position and the lady voice says "Earning skill points in battle allows you to train skills. Open your neocom and select 'character-skills' to view your skillset." From there she could tell you to choose one and tell you the benefits of all the starting skills that each player can begin with and let you go from there. If you are making an alt then the game should recognise you already have one character and ask if you want to skip it, just so we aren't spending half an hour locked into something we may have already done twice.
Red Dot 24601-HA S.e.V.e.N. 40	Posted - 2013.03.14 01:29:00 - [43] - Quote RINON114 wrote: Red Dot 24601-HA wrote: RINON114 wrote: Chinduko wrote: I would love to see a respec or reallocation of skill points. People will make a ton of mistakes with SP so offering this would help. Good idea! +1 Also I was thinking, when they bring in certificates then players could be presented with a choice of basic certificates to begin with, much like they are with the current "classes". The certificates would the automatically purchase and train the relevant skills to complete the certificate, giving the simplest basic course of how skills work. This could obviously be done for advanced certificates too. Just pick the profession you want and follow the yellow brick road. Edit: I think this is where PvE would definitely improve the state of things. The game could begin with you just being alone in one of the maps, a timer in the corner and some text on the screen: "Two minutes until enemy reinforcements arrive". As a new player you are shown the intro skill screen (what type of player are you) and you shoot stuff right away. The first round is easy and you can destroy everything in minutes. A supply depot is dropped next to you and you are told by a mysterious voice to hack it, so you do. Now access fittings and restock ammo or give another class a go. Fight off another wave and you get told to escape. Call for aerial support and high tail it to a pre-determined exit zone in your fast as hell LAV. There you go CCP, I just wrote your tutorial for you :) It actually sounds a lot like the tutorials in MAG. Just without the PvE. The main thing that confuses people though is the skills and their function and dropsuit fittings. These need a good in depth tutorial or training program to help people understand it better. The SP tutorial would come after that first PvE engagement and as soon as you return to merc quarters. You are stuck in the starting position and the lady voice says "Earning skill points in battle allows you to train skills. Open your neocom and select 'character-skills' to view your skillset." From there she could tell you to choose one and tell you the benefits of all the starting skills that each player can begin with and let you go from there. If you are making an alt then the game should recognise you already have one character and ask if you want to skip it, just so we aren't spending half an hour locked into something we may have already done twice. Yeah that sounds like a viable option. I hate playing through tutorials I have already played through once. Especially lengthy ones.
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis 822	Posted - 2013.03.14 02:52:00 - [44] - Quote Buster Friently wrote: As I mentioned in my first post in this thread, I'm pretty sure I saw some dev comment that Certifications were coming. I think this should help with the "How should I train" kind of questions at least. I have been unable to locate the link but I believe you are correct regarding certifications. If the descriptions on the Certs are clear and there is a list of "recommended certifications" provided by in game prompts linked to the 'class' selection of the player I think that will help quite a bit in providing new players with the information they need at the times they need it. 0.02 ISK Cross ps ~ I fully support the concept of doing more for the new player experience, the game is good but for some of those not already accustomed to CCPs level of complexity it can be a rough climb up that learning curve. On a related note having a militia version of all gear so that new players can try stuff out before pumping their SP into permanent skill selections would also be a boon to new players. EDIT: I like the ideas expressed by RINON114 (and the quotes) in post #42
RINON114 B.S.A.A. 39	Posted - 2013.03.14 06:35:00 - [45] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Buster Friently wrote: As I mentioned in my first post in this thread, I'm pretty sure I saw some dev comment that Certifications were coming. I think this should help with the "How should I train" kind of questions at least. I have been unable to locate the link but I believe you are correct regarding certifications. If the descriptions on the Certs are clear and there is a list of "recommended certifications" provided by in game prompts linked to the 'class' selection of the player I think that will help quite a bit in providing new players with the information they need at the times they need it. 0.02 ISK Cross ps ~ I fully support the concept of doing more for the new player experience, the game is good but for some of those not already accustomed to CCPs level of complexity it can be a rough climb up that learning curve. On a related note having a militia version of all gear so that new players can try stuff out before pumping their SP into permanent skill selections would also be a boon to new players. EDIT: I like the ideas expressed by RINON114 (and the quotes) in post #42 Thanks and +1. New players need the most love as we need to make them want to stick around. This game will die quickly of we can't do this. It's something that has been mentioned before and probably announced as coming soon, but some tutorial gameplay is definitely needed. If you want the steep learning curve just throw players straight into a PvE or even PvP battle and THEN teach them all the number crunching skills and market stuff. The tutorial we have now is not good enough, although it's certainly in-depth and explains everything very well, it isn't suited to somebody who just wants to play. I also thoroughly support the idea of class based certificate selection as a pop up option that is shown at the start of the game.
Gorgoth24Reborn Machetes at Midnight Ghosts of Deep Space 0	Posted - 2013.03.14 21:10:00 - [46] - Quote I think this idea would really improve new player reception to the game. End of tutorial? Pick one of these skill paths to auto-train. I know EVE has a certificate system that is SUPPOSED to do a similar thing, but I've been playing EVE for ~5 years~ and haven't met a player who seriously considers the certificate planner as a valuable tool in skill planning. A far more structured system like the one described would, I think, be far superior then adding a certificate system like the one in EVE to Dust. +1
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 633	Posted - 2013.03.14 22:30:00 - [47] - Quote Gorgoth24Reborn wrote: I think this idea would really improve new player reception to the game. End of tutorial? Pick one of these skill paths to auto-train. I know EVE has a certificate system that is SUPPOSED to do a similar thing, but I've been playing EVE for ~5 years~ and haven't met a player who seriously considers the certificate planner as a valuable tool in skill planning. A far more structured system like the one described would, I think, be far superior then adding a certificate system like the one in EVE to Dust. +1 Well its far from perfect, but it's an attempt. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=612098
RINON114 B.S.A.A. 41	Posted - 2013.03.15 04:33:00 - [48] - Quote Gorgoth24Reborn wrote: I think this idea would really improve new player reception to the game. End of tutorial? Pick one of these skill paths to auto-train. I know EVE has a certificate system that is SUPPOSED to do a similar thing, but I've been playing EVE for ~5 years~ and haven't met a player who seriously considers the certificate planner as a valuable tool in skill planning. A far more structured system like the one described would, I think, be far superior then adding a certificate system like the one in EVE to Dust. +1 I think the point for Dust would be simply something for new players to aim for, a goal if you wish. I had the goal when playing EVE to fly the Megathron, granted I never got there but it meant I was focused. That is what new players need. As for the links to certificates, thanks. I can't check it out on my phone for some reason but I'll take a look later. This still does not really solve many problems though as anybody interested enough to watch the tutorials (which they would do before signing into or finding the forums) would know how to train skills and not really have need of certificates as they have been presented here. We really just need an interactive tutorial that gives players a simple, fun and hands on experience. Then they can get into the nitty gritty skill system and go searching for more answers once we have them hooked.
Red Dot 24601-HA S.e.V.e.N. 41	Posted - 2013.03.15 22:17:00 - [49] - Quote I guess the PvE environment would be perfect for a tutorial that includes action and excitement. The new player makes his character and then is transported via dropship to the surface of a planet with a rogue drone infestation. Battle commences and they are taught all kinds of new and interesting things!
RINON114 B.S.A.A. 42	Posted - 2013.03.16 05:28:00 - [50] - Quote Red Dot 24601-HA wrote: I guess the PvE environment would be perfect for a tutorial that includes action and excitement. The new player makes his character and then is transported via dropship to the surface of a planet with a rogue drone infestation. Battle commences and they are taught all kinds of new and interesting things! Agreed. I can't wait for some PvE news!

Red Dot 24601-HA S.e.V.e.N. 42	Posted - 2013.03.17 18:55:00 - [51] - Quote With a PvE tutorial you could actually run the player through the diferent classes with supply depots. They could start as an assualt and move into position fighting the first few drones and securing a supply depot. They could then be promted to switch to a logi and repair a turret installation set up a drop link and a nano hive. Fight a few drones and then be promted to switch to a heavy with an hmg to fight a big hoard of weak drones. Maybe switch over to the forge gun or swarm launcher for a queen drone. Then possibly be over run and be prompted to change to a scout to make your escape or call in an orbital or lav. It would cover a good bit of the different types of gameplay. However when it comes to skills and character progression a certificate or path system would be the best route.
RINON114 B.S.A.A. 46	Posted - 2013.03.18 04:11:00 - [52] - Quote Red Dot 24601-HA wrote: With a PvE tutorial you could actually run the player through the diferent classes with supply depots. They could start as an assualt and move into position fighting the first few drones and securing a supply depot. They could then be promted to switch to a logi and repair a turret installation set up a drop link and a nano hive. Fight a few drones and then be promted to switch to a heavy with an hmg to fight a big hoard of weak drones. Maybe switch over to the forge gun or swarm launcher for a queen drone. Then possibly be over run and be prompted to change to a scout to make your escape or call in an orbital or lav. It would cover a good bit of the different types of gameplay. However when it comes to skills and character progression a certificate or path system would be the best route. That is exactly what should happen. Combine this with the ideas in this thread and we have an idea worth presenting to CCP.
slypie11 Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 0	Posted - 2013.03.18 20:42:00 - [53] - Quote I think that there should be some kind of certification/tutorial thing, but it should only be temporary. It will let newly injected FPS players get their feet wet, and then it will slowly ween them off the games helping hand until their just as DUST savvy as we are. When I first started DUST, I had no idea where to start. There was just soooo much stuff to customize and tweak. Should I specialize in assaults and AR's or heavies and HMGs. Should I buy new dropsuits, weapons, or modules. Or maybe I should jump straight in as a vehicle person. Should I be a frontline person or a medic. Hopefully, a tutorial like I described will ease some of the strifes of a beginner without dumbing down the entire experience.
Lynn Beck Forsaken Legion-0 0	Posted - 2013.03.19 00:31:00 - [54] - Quote Buster Friently wrote: Thrillhouse Van Houten wrote: There is a gigantic elephant in the room here... DUST 514 needs players to be successful. Normally, you'd never hear me speak out for lazy mushbrains who can't take 3 days of playing a game to figure out how it works, but the entire enterprise that CCP is going for here is a massive COD or MW FPS crowd to populate the ground level combat of the Eve universe. Two major things could crush this game if only 100k dedicated people end up playing it: 1) It is totally free. All incoming money relies solely on the AUR market. More players playing equals more people buying gear, boosters, etc... on the market. The second 2) is that there are literally a thousand solar systems or more in the Eve universe and most of those systems have belts, moons or planets that could be potential battlefields. If there are only 20k people signed into Dust 4 months after launch during a given hour because so many people jumped ship, that will make for a pretty pathetic number of active battles literally strewn across a thousand star systems. I don't know about you, but I want as many people to stick around as possible for the second reason and CCP wants just as many peeps to stick around for the first reason. IF implementing some kind of rookie skill and equipment training system will keep people logged in, I'm pretty much all for it. I am not for the dumbing down of this system as it is (it hardly seems complicated to me as I am typically not a FPS person) but the OPs idea would keep the game open to both types of players AND doesn't do anything that they couldn't do on their own already. The one point of contention I have is making stock dropsuit fittings easily available. MAYBE add some kind of "completed fitting" tax (5% over actual market costs) so lazy people can still play, don't lose too much ISK but are still being held responsible for their being lazy. "Convenience fee." One thing is certain in DUST 514: more players, more battles, more AUR and ISK being spent...more fun for everyone. I respect what you are saying, and I think you're right - to an extent. Personally, I like playing Dust. I'd rather have a better game with fewer players than the most popular game in the world - that I think sucks. Yeah, that's selfishness for you, but so long as we don't fall below whatever threshold is necessary for proper integration into Eve and proper compensation for CCP, I vote for a more cerebral shooter. I personally think that having more players in the game would help. 1)having more players means more ISK being spent, whether it's wise or not, is not important. Having for example: a standard AR, Standard Sniper, and advanced/prototype versions of these sets should be totally available to FPS gamers. also the training ground to test out damages/maneuvering: spawn in a large blaster turret to test out it's damage with hybrid turret operation lv 5 against an advanced dropship would be great for telling if it's even worth it.
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis 832	Posted - 2013.03.21 21:40:00 - [55] - Quote RINON114 wrote: Red Dot 24601-HA wrote: With a PvE tutorial you could actually run the player through the diferent classes with supply depots. They could start as an assualt and move into position fighting the first few drones and securing a supply depot. They could then be promted to switch to a logi and repair a turret installation set up a drop link and a nano hive. Fight a few drones and then be promted to switch to a heavy with an hmg to fight a big hoard of weak drones. Maybe switch over to the forge gun or swarm launcher for a queen drone. Then possibly be over run and be prompted to change to a scout to make your escape or call in an orbital or lav. It would cover a good bit of the different types of gameplay. However when it comes to skills and character progression a certificate or path system would be the best route. That is exactly what should happen. Combine this with the ideas in this thread and we have an idea worth presenting to CCP. Sounds good, a PvE intro to the way battlefield roles work would really help players become grounded before they start spending ISK and SP. I think that would help improve the new player exprience and lead to greater retention. I'm all for keeping Dust as it's own entity, I don't think it needs to be watered down for "mass appeal" but I also don't see any harm done to the nature of the game by making new player orientation a more robust offering. In short don't make it easier to play dust by oversimplifying dust, Make dust easier to play by providing strong tutorials, PvE intros etc. to ensure a robust system for our new player experience. A complex game adds depth and fun value, driving new players away at the door does not. 0.02 ISK Cross ps ~ for those who care I play EVE and everyone I know in EVE agrees that the new player experience is one of the weakest links in the game, it would be great if D514 could buck that trend.
Red Dot 24601-HA S.e.V.e.N. 44	Posted - 2013.03.22 00:58:00 - [56] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: RINON114 wrote: Red Dot 24601-HA wrote: With a PvE tutorial you could actually run the player through the diferent classes with supply depots. They could start as an assualt and move into position fighting the first few drones and securing a supply depot. They could then be promted to switch to a logi and repair a turret installation set up a drop link and a nano hive. Fight a few drones and then be promted to switch to a heavy with an hmg to fight a big hoard of weak drones. Maybe switch over to the forge gun or swarm launcher for a queen drone. Then possibly be over run and be prompted to change to a scout to make your escape or call in an orbital or lav. It would cover a good bit of the different types of gameplay. However when it comes to skills and character progression a certificate or path system would be the best route. That is exactly what should happen. Combine this with the ideas in this thread and we have an idea worth presenting to CCP. Sounds good, a PvE intro to the way battlefield roles work would really help players become grounded before they start spending ISK and SP. I think that would help improve the new player exprience and lead to greater retention. I'm all for keeping Dust as it's own entity, I don't think it needs to be watered down for "mass appeal" but I also don't see any harm done to the nature of the game by making new player orientation a more robust offering. In short don't make it easier to play dust by oversimplifying dust, Make dust easier to play by providing strong tutorials, PvE intros etc. to ensure a robust system for our new player experience. A complex game adds depth and fun value, driving new players away at the door does not. 0.02 ISK Cross ps ~ for those who care I play EVE and everyone I know in EVE agrees that the new player experience is one of the weakest links in the game, it would be great if D514 could buck that trend. I agree 100%!! I would hate for CCP to simplify things or make the game idiot compatible. I am just looking for ways to make the game easier to get started in. I tried EVE once with the free trial and was pretty overwhelmed by it. I wasn't willing to spend a monthly subscription on a game I didn't fully understand.
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis 833	Posted - 2013.03.22 04:26:00 - [57] - Quote Red Dot 24601-HA wrote: I agree 100%!! I would hate for CCP to simplify things or make the game idiot compatible. I am just looking for ways to make the game easier to get started in. I tried EVE once with the free trial and was pretty overwhelmed by it. I wasn't willing to spend a monthly subscription on a game I didn't fully understand. Your story is one I have (unfortunately) encountered all to frequently during my time in EVE (and I'm not even what's considered a veteran player upstairs in the attic ). There are reasons why EVE is complex even in it's intro and to give CCP their due they are still improving the new player experience even now, but there's no doubt it's one of the weak elements of the game. Dust has a much better chance to do this right in that at present it does not have so much content build in, the complexity is there but the diversity is still maturing and that makes this moment opportune for establishing a strong and dynamic set of tools in game for teaching new players the ropes without getting them tied in knots. What the in game introduction resources fundamentally need to do is provide a player with the grounding and tools needed to play the game in a stable way until either A) they master things on their own or B) they become part of a Corp/other community of players who will help them learn in a more effective way. As an additional note to point B if those same tools (such as PvE) made mentoring friends who are new to the game easier and more effective that would be a real boon for the player communities and groups which seek to provide such training and support. Thanks for posting this thread and +1 again for your work in it. Cheers, Cross ps ~ if you ever decide you'd like to give flying another try shoot me a mail in game and I'll be happy to help walk you through some things sky side the more reasonable, conversant individuals in New Eden (space or ground let alone both ) the better in my opinion.
slypie11 Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 6	Posted - 2013.03.22 05:05:00 - [58] - Quote I hate the people who say "oh, we have to keep it complicated so we can keep the idiots and the CoD players out". To me that's just cruel and selfish. I almost passed this game by. I had seen trailers for it a while back, but didn't even know it had been released in open beta until recently. When I first went on, I was completely lost. I would have given up, but after an hour or two, I sort of got the hang of it. And I am a CoD player (at my friend's house anyway). And I'm 13. It's just infuriating how many stereotypes there are surround people's "gaming background" and age in this game.
Sylwester Dziewiecki BetaMax. CRONOS. 34	Posted - 2013.03.22 06:09:00 - [59] - Quote http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Certificate
RINON114 B.S.A.A. 63	Posted - 2013.03.22 08:37:00 - [60] - Quote slypie11 wrote: I hate the people who say "oh, we have to keep it complicated so we can keep the idiots and the CoD players out". To me that's just cruel and selfish. I almost passed this game by. I had seen trailers for it a while back, but didn't even know it had been released in open beta until recently. When I first went on, I was completely lost. I would have given up, but after an hour or two, I sort of got the hang of it. And I am a CoD player (at my friend's house anyway). And I'm 13. It's just infuriating how many stereotypes there are surround people's "gaming background" and age in this game. Stereotypes usually exist for a reason and it's good you're not too much a part of it. You've still upheld the part of stereotype by starting the post "I hate..." but I can let that go because you posted well. We could use more teenagers like you.



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