Cost, though the surge does the job the best. It is the least cost efficient of the lot. This is true of a lot of the vehicle mods.

I don't use hardeners, but if they are anything like the extenders. You get a marginal increase in performance, for close to double the price. I still use the complex versions none the less.

Shield hardeners blow tbh when compared against the armor versions

60sec and a 15sec cooldown

This ^^ shields seriously got messed up here. That's why armor is better, your hardners will run forever, where as shield.......ya hope you like that cool down compared to pulse time.

Such a joke.

The balance being that shields regenerate passively and don't add weight. It wasn't all that long ago that everyone was talking about how much better shields were and how awful armor was, without any real changes between then and now to how either works.

Says to me that it's mostly personal preference.

that is also why i did not suggest a buff to match the armor hardeners, i think its fine that the armor tanks can tank some more damage than shield tanks.

really want to see a dev response on here and if they have plans on changing it.

How does passive regeneration make up for the difference? Because your getting 30 hp a sec, imo keep it. While my hardners run a full minute while I run away to a supply depot that reps my armor faster then your passive regeneration. Not including the massive burst tank my tank is capable of.

I have an alt in a gunnlogi, me in a madrugar, let me tell you, there is no comparison whatsoever.

Yes shields handle swarms better. I handle them fine with hardners and forge gunners.

What happens when the new new cannon comes out that is made to vs shields? A light weapon mind you.

If you look at the pro's and cons shield tanks are just flat out under powered.

People will say, armor tanks are slow blah blah, have you seen zitro? Just lol. Armor tanks are actually faster then shield.

How does passive regeneration make up for the difference? Because your getting 30 hp a sec, imo keep it. While my hardners run a full minute while I run away to a supply depot that reps my armor faster then your passive regeneration. Not including the massive burst tank my tank is capable of.

I have an alt in a gunnlogi, me in a madrugar, let me tell you, there is no comparison whatsoever.

Yes shields handle swarms better. I handle them fine with hardners and forge gunners.

What happens when the new new cannon comes out that is made to vs shields? A light weapon mind you.

If you look at the pro's and cons shield tanks are just flat out under powered.

People will say, armor tanks are slow blah blah, have you seen zitro? Just lol. Armor tanks are actually faster then shield.

he could be rocking speed/boost modules or just kb/m
that brings another thing to my attention.

CCP, Why the hell are vehicles faster with keyboard and mouse than controller?? JUST W T F, makes no sense.

To be clear, I actually agree with you. Armor has been pretty well shown to be inherently better than shields for tanks. Being a dropship pilot, I was thinking in terms of dropships rather than tanks, in which, IMO the difference is personal preference.

Still, you can't have a supposedly serious conversation about balance, without at least mentioning any of the things that are supposed to balance the items in question.

I don't understand how CCP could screw something up something basic as speed, did they not test it themselves? just wow... going to adjust my setup and keep my keyboard close to me when i need to escape.

Shield hardeners blow tbh when compared against the armor versions

60sec and a 15sec cooldown

The balance being that shields regenerate passively and don't add weight. It wasn't all that long ago that everyone was talking about how much better shields were and how awful armor was, without any real changes between then and now to how either works.

Says to me that it's mostly personal preference.

If CCP adds a skill to reduce Armor Mass then yes Buff shield hardeners to 15-20secs other than that tbqh Shield tanks are still the best and will continue to be the best when it comes to Tank Destroying

Armor is and was always meant to be better at defense and with bonus to blasters for marauders its clearly meant to get in and absorb punishment and wreak havoc on Infantry.


While we on the topic of tanks, There is also too much bs that makes armor easier to take out than shields
AV Nades home in, Swarms lock on, RE/Proxy mines all deal explosive dmg

Shields do not hav a native AV weapon that deals them more dmg atm

something has been bothering me all this time and i really want to know what the hell the devs were thinking.

There are 3 shield hardeners in the marketplace.

'Surge' Shield reinforcement
Damage reduction -30% CPU 45 PG 5

Extender Shield Hardener
Damage reduction -27% CPU 50 PG 5
under attributes it says a damage reduction of 28%

Shield Hardener I
Damage reduction -25% CPU 45 PG 5

All three have a cooldown of 30 seconds and pulse interval of 10 seconds. If you look at the stats 2/3 hardeners are completely useless... why did ccp add a shield hardener with less damage reduction but with more cpu and pg?

i might be missing something here but as i see it, it makes no freaking sense!

also a bit of the same story with armor hardeners, all the same pg and cpu requirement, all available with the same skills, yet they have a -20%, -22% and a -25% hardener. the only difference is a bit of isk but which tanker actually cares about a bit of isk.

i really hope ccp does something about this and actually make them different.

p.s while im on the topic, please buff the shield hardeners, they run for 10 seconds and the cooldown is 30 seconds. at least make it something like 15-20 seconds and a cooldown of 30.

what do you think about this?

did you read my post? there is no increase in performance

Where is this logic shield tanks are tank killers?

Its well known that armor tanks are tank killers, for the very reason you put. Absorb punishment and wreck havoc.

Armor tanks are faster then shield tanks, add a nitro booster and they will start moving just as fast as a shield tank.

A shield tank can fit a railgun sit behind the redline and stack damage mods, what happens when maps are bigger or the redline is changed?

These are eventuality's that need to be looked at.

Weight means nothing other then if my armor tank hits your shield tank at half speed you blow up and I get a dent.

Also passive regen is a joke 30hp sec compared to my faster tank going to a supply depot while my burst tank can't be broke.

lolno
no amount of defense will save u from a proto rail with loldmgmods atm
u will still get 2-3 shotted

Armor has to give up its defense to fit dmg mods to get a strong rail fit


add a nitro booster just to get ur speed up u mean
by that time u;ve already eaten 2-3 AV shots

Gonna break it, gonna break it.

Alright, so the shield tanks move quickly around the battlefield. Primarily their roles are pretty much blitzkrieg tactics. Move in, hit the target, GTFO. You activate the hardners just before you begin your assault keep moving and engaging, then retreat, turn around and sweep again. You are meant to hit the enemy and get out, simple.

Armor on the other hand are more like Pavlovs house. You go in and support the advance, draw the fire and suppress the enemy. Youre definetely going to take a few hits, even when you have to retreat its slow. The hardeners are active longer for that reason.

Its actually very balanced if you engage an armor tank at close range youll probably have to pull back, but if you get it at long range you can chase it as it retreats. Youve got mobility a huge advantage.

...
vehicles [are] faster with keyboard and mouse than controller
...

How do nitrous/afterburners play into this point, though? Don't they negate shields' primary advantage over armor tanks/dropships?