DUST Search - New Blog: Tuning the Mass Driver

All Channels

General Discussions

New Blog: Tuning the Mass Driver

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Dusters Blog Bragian Order Amarr Empire 116	Posted - 2013.02.22 14:26:00 - [1] - Quote " The next weapon we take a look at is another in dire need of tuning. The Mass Drivers first incarnation was woefully inept, and so it certainly needed to be tuned upwards. But the current version has been tuned too powerfully, and now gameplay has been gifted with what FPS veterans affectionately refer to as a 'noob tube'. It is now a high fire rate, high DPS weapon with a low accuracy requirement, and it also has something no other weapon in the game has: Suppression Effect. User skill will never be even, but with that said, weapons must be tuned with the skilled user in mind. Devs must consider the person who can wield a weapon and land 8 of 10 shots, not the one who cant hit the broad side of a barn. Because the skilled user breaks the game with a poorly balanced weapon. " read the rest here: http://tinyurl.com/bxuhgpo
Leovarian L Lavitz Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 278	Posted - 2013.02.22 14:35:00 - [2] - Quote NO EDIT You are mistaken on the accuracy requirement, and admit it in your blog "Weapons should be tuned using the high-skilled user" What makes him high skilled? His accuracy, timing and motion prediction. Unlike the assault rifle, massdriver rounds take time to travel to their destination, during which time any suit could have moved out of the max skilled 6 meter explosion at their suits 7.8 meter/s sprint speed. Hell, I've seen people just jump over my mass-driver's explosions. Additionally, the mass driver deals explosive damage which loses 30% of its effectiveness against shields. Which everyone fits, so the damage argument is out again with the mass driver. The mass-driver is in a good place at the moment, it isn't over-powered, nor under-powered. It's balanced, imo. So leave it alone.
Tyjus Vacca Valor Coalition RISE of LEGION 8	Posted - 2013.02.22 14:58:00 - [3] - Quote +1 leave the damage as is. fire rate and reload time a good compromise.
Prius Vecht Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire 15	Posted - 2013.02.22 15:02:00 - [4] - Quote Leovarian L Lavitz wrote: NO EDIT You are mistaken on the accuracy requirement, and admit it in your blog "Weapons should be tuned using the high-skilled user" What makes him high skilled? His accuracy, timing and motion prediction. Unlike the assault rifle, massdriver rounds take time to travel to their destination, during which time any suit could have moved out of the max skilled 6 meter explosion at their suits 7.8 meter/s sprint speed. Hell, I've seen people just jump over my mass-driver's explosions. Additionally, the mass driver deals explosive damage which loses 30% of its effectiveness against shields. Which everyone fits, so the damage argument is out again with the mass driver. The mass-driver is in a good place at the moment, it isn't over-powered, nor under-powered. It's balanced, imo. So leave it alone. over my mass driver explosion? lol well atleast your not biased or anything.
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders Red Rock Consortium 295	Posted - 2013.02.22 15:11:00 - [5] - Quote You call it a noob tube then say it must be balanced based on the expert users. I have trained for the mass driver and use the EXO-5 on my good suits. The weapon is still very situational and I often find myself switching to my AR suits, even though I haven't put a single SP into that weapon, just to deal with enemy tactics. The mass driver's real strength is limited by ammo. I'm constantly thinking about ammo conservation and where my next reload is coming from. Its much better on defense where you can sit on a nanohive it keep it fed but on the offense you quickly run out.
DEADPOOL5241 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 231	Posted - 2013.02.22 15:21:00 - [6] - Quote Leovarian L Lavitz wrote: NO EDIT You are mistaken on the accuracy requirement, and admit it in your blog "Weapons should be tuned using the high-skilled user" What makes him high skilled? His accuracy, timing and motion prediction. Unlike the assault rifle, massdriver rounds take time to travel to their destination, during which time any suit could have moved out of the max skilled 6 meter explosion at their suits 7.8 meter/s sprint speed. Hell, I've seen people just jump over my mass-driver's explosions. Additionally, the mass driver deals explosive damage which loses 30% of its effectiveness against shields. Which everyone fits, so the damage argument is out again with the mass driver. The mass-driver is in a good place at the moment, it isn't over-powered, nor under-powered. It's balanced, imo. So leave it alone. Exactly! +1 Exactly what makes it a high accuracy weapon? I aim the weapon same as an AR or forge gun player does, but that is the player not the weapon. Dusters blog (BS blog post) again thinks he knows all and probably has not even once played with a MD. But he sure knows enough to go open his big mouth about the weapon. How much do you want to beat that OP Dusters blog got killed a few times by a MD and is so butt hurt about it, he decided to write more BS about it. Am I right OP? Gek vs MD gee who wins that fight nine out of 10 times.. OP go play another game you noob..
Cyn Bruin Imperfects Negative-Feedback 651	Posted - 2013.02.22 15:28:00 - [7] - Quote Dusters Blog wrote: " The next weapon we take a look at is another in dire need of tuning. The Mass Drivers first incarnation was woefully inept, and so it certainly needed to be tuned upwards. But the current version has been tuned too powerfully, and now gameplay has been gifted with what FPS veterans affectionately refer to as a 'noob tube'. It is now a high fire rate, high DPS weapon with a low accuracy requirement, and it also has something no other weapon in the game has: Suppression Effect. User skill will never be even, but with that said, weapons must be tuned with the skilled user in mind. Devs must consider the person who can wield a weapon and land 8 of 10 shots, not the one who cant hit the broad side of a barn. Because the skilled user breaks the game with a poorly balanced weapon. " read the rest here: http://tinyurl.com/bxuhgpo As to most things you supposedly "report on".... You're wrong.
DEADPOOL5241 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 231	Posted - 2013.02.22 15:40:00 - [8] - Quote Cyn Bruin wrote: Dusters Blog wrote: " The next weapon we take a look at is another in dire need of tuning. The Mass Drivers first incarnation was woefully inept, and so it certainly needed to be tuned upwards. But the current version has been tuned too powerfully, and now gameplay has been gifted with what FPS veterans affectionately refer to as a 'noob tube'. It is now a high fire rate, high DPS weapon with a low accuracy requirement, and it also has something no other weapon in the game has: Suppression Effect. User skill will never be even, but with that said, weapons must be tuned with the skilled user in mind. Devs must consider the person who can wield a weapon and land 8 of 10 shots, not the one who cant hit the broad side of a barn. Because the skilled user breaks the game with a poorly balanced weapon. " read the rest here: http://tinyurl.com/bxuhgpo As to most things you supposedly "report on".... You're wrong. I think Dusters Blog should consider playing with a MD before he opens his mouth about the weapon. OP you get MD to LVL 5 and get a Proto MD and then you can try to post something about MD, until then its just you being butt hurt by players killing you with a MD.
Sobriety Denied Universal Allies Inc. 432	Posted - 2013.02.22 15:49:00 - [9] - Quote TLDR he got killed by an lolmass driver and wrote a blog about it
Skihids Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 969	Posted - 2013.02.22 15:55:00 - [10] - Quote We've gone over this a dozen times already. The MD is situational. The MD actually requires the most skill of any weapon in the game. The MD is not a "noob tube". It is in CoD where it OHK's, but that's not the case in DUST. You can't treat a MD user as just another AR user. Try your leet dance moves and it will step on your feet. That's not broken, it's rock/paper/scissors. The folks who cry "OP!" have never used the MD. I'll listen to you when you pick up the MD and improve your KDR over the AR.

TITAN A-D Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 15	Posted - 2013.02.22 16:01:00 - [11] - Quote Screw your blog. Stop ranting and crying on forums because you got killed by a mass driver. A mass driver does what is is supposed to do. If it gets nerfed because you sit there on your computer making up a legitimate explanation to why and how you got killed by a games weapon which sole purpose is to kill, it will become another missile turret weapon nobody uses. Using the missile turrets as an example because some other winers cried about it during closed beta. My advise, play the dang game and stop crying about it on your blog.
Tolen Rosas Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 37	Posted - 2013.02.22 17:10:00 - [12] - Quote i agree. leave the dmg and slow fire rate and lower clip size.
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 373	Posted - 2013.02.22 17:14:00 - [13] - Quote MD's are fine as they are, they're a situational weapon much like the LR and the HMG, there are times when they dominate and there are times when they get smashed, leave them alone
DEADPOOL5241 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 231	Posted - 2013.02.22 17:25:00 - [14] - Quote gbghg wrote: MD's are fine as they are, they're a situational weapon much like the LR and the HMG, there are times when they dominate and there are times when they get smashed, leave them alone See OP thinks that MD are all purpose weapons like an AR, but you are correct its not. Any opponent that is higher then you has a huge advantage, does an AR player have that problem.. NO. Do AR players have to think about a shot before pressing a button, no. While MD depending on the range have to assume where you are going to be in 1 second from the time we shoot. AR/Laser/HMG all are point and shoot with instant hits. "and it also has something no other weapon in the game has: Suppression Effect" Like no Duh OP, that is what the weapon is supposed to do. Again OP has never fraking touched a MD, but he loves to write about them.
Sentient Archon Red Star. 690	Posted - 2013.02.22 17:31:00 - [15] - Quote DEADPOOL5241 wrote: gbghg wrote: MD's are fine as they are, they're a situational weapon much like the LR and the HMG, there are times when they dominate and there are times when they get smashed, leave them alone See OP thinks that MD are all purpose weapons like an AR, but you are correct its not. Any opponent that is higher then you has a huge advantage, does an AR player have that problem.. NO. Do AR players have to think about a shot before pressing a button, no. While MD depending on the range have to assume where you are going to be in 1 second from the time we shoot. AR/Laser/HMG all are point and shoot with instant hits. "and it also has something no other weapon in the game has: Suppression Effect" Like no Duh OP, that is what the weapon is supposed to do. Again OP has never fraking touched a MD, but he loves to write about them. DP: Why do you even bother wasting your time with the ******* moron a.k.a. Dusters Blog? This is the same dude that thinks I am the CEO of Red Star and my directors robbed me blind and that a corp battle between SyN and STB was a corporate heist.
DEADPOOL5241 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 231	Posted - 2013.02.22 17:36:00 - [16] - Quote Sentient Archon wrote: DEADPOOL5241 wrote: gbghg wrote: MD's are fine as they are, they're a situational weapon much like the LR and the HMG, there are times when they dominate and there are times when they get smashed, leave them alone See OP thinks that MD are all purpose weapons like an AR, but you are correct its not. Any opponent that is higher then you has a huge advantage, does an AR player have that problem.. NO. Do AR players have to think about a shot before pressing a button, no. While MD depending on the range have to assume where you are going to be in 1 second from the time we shoot. AR/Laser/HMG all are point and shoot with instant hits. "and it also has something no other weapon in the game has: Suppression Effect" Like no Duh OP, that is what the weapon is supposed to do. Again OP has never fraking touched a MD, but he loves to write about them. DP: Why do you even bother wasting your time with the ******* moron a.k.a. Dusters Blog? This is the same dude that thinks I am the CEO of Red Star and my directors robbed me blind and that a corp battle between SyN and STB was a corporate heist. @ Sentient, I know.. I know, but he makes me so dam frustrated with his Jr. High school level of writing skills, terrible ideas for posts and then he comes down on my MD... I hate to feed the stupid trolls more food but I can't stand some of the players responses to any other weapon then a fraking AR. Just for fun I took my exile out and decided to play a few rounds. Went 45-2, 35-4 and 21-0. I almost forgot how stupidly simple an AR gun game fight is. If I wanted to play AR id go play BF or COD, but I don't so I play dust and use the "noob tube" as OP calls it. Which is not even correct a Noob Tube is a COD weapon and its nothing like Dusts MD. But OP is to darn daft to figure even that out. Ok, I think I vented enough Sentient.. thanks for the support
Fox Gaden DUST University Ivy League 165	Posted - 2013.02.22 18:39:00 - [17] - Quote In my experience you get more kills with an Assault Riffle than with a Mass Driver. Although I have to admit you get lots of kill assists with the thing, and it is very good for suppression fire. Even with the Area of Effect I think it is harder to hit someone with it than with an Assault Riffle (way harder to hit anything at range). I did see a video of someone getting massive kills with the Mass Driver, but I have also seen a video of the same person getting massive kills with an Assault Riffle. Lastly, there is something strangely rewarding about shooting someone in the chest when they try to melee you. You die, but at least you take them with you.
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 373	Posted - 2013.02.22 18:50:00 - [18] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Lastly, there is something strangely rewarding about shooting someone in the chest when they try to melee you. You die, but at least you take them with you. Yeah it really is satisfying, what's also satisfying is when you teach the newberries why they should never huddle together when MD'S are around.
Sobriety Denied Universal Allies Inc. 432	Posted - 2013.02.22 19:13:00 - [19] - Quote because a weapon has gone massive kills in the last month means nothing- we are farming low health newbs here, and we're still doing that in %60 of games with any weapon. ppl are going to get high kills with any weapon because of that. i also find it ironic that ppl want to nerf the best counter to heavies which is a mass driver but at the same time they want the heavy nerfed too..? you ppl speak of balance but not everything has to be a nerf, why not propose to have weapons that are not "OP" brought up to stregnth of the ones you deem are OP? if these weapons were actually as OP then you would see it in game but on an average there are only about 2-3 MDs a match (same with lasers), if even any at all.. the weapon suffers greatly in rough terrain, it only takes about a foot of terrain to deflect MD blast.. the biggest threat is when you put MD, HMG, laser, and AR all in one squad.. then ppl come crying to the forums about all of these, because they encounter a perfect squad and get owned by every weapon in one match if your running under 500 health well you have no right to ask for anyones weapon to be nerfed. the MD pwns noobs but that's about the extent of it, any geared, disciplined and skilled AR player will pwn an MD, and those with enough health just get right in the MDs face causing them to suicide.
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 373	Posted - 2013.02.22 19:20:00 - [20] - Quote Sobriety Denied wrote: the biggest threat is when you put MD, HMG, laser, and AR all in one squad.. then ppl come crying to the forums about all of these, because they encounter a perfect squad and get owned by every weapon in one match So true, I was playing in a corp squad yesterday with 2 MD's 1 HMG and an AR, everything before us died

Sentient Archon Red Star. 690	Posted - 2013.02.22 19:37:00 - [21] - Quote Sobriety Denied wrote: TLDR he got killed by an lolmass driver and wrote a blog about it Its Dusters Blog man! He never gets killed by anything because he never plays the ******* game.
Gunner Nightingale Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 215	Posted - 2013.02.22 20:01:00 - [22] - Quote Facepalm Duster. Seriously have you even used a MD. I thought that the EXO was perfect and was sure the Freedom would be OP. Guess what it isnt. Even at prof level 2 and 3 com mods its not a OHK unless its a miltiia suit and some std level scouts. Most are 2 hit kills which is fine, but with larger radius and larger splash damage come at a HUGE price. For every bit you make the MD stronger past the base level of the EXO you deal yourself even more damage in CQC and will become more and more likely to commit suicide in CQC. This is the balance of the MD. The stronger it gets the harder it hits you as much as it hits others. Really inside/outside of 10-20m mark the weapon gets smoked. AR's shred me to pieces if the round has to travel farther cause they can dodge it while maintaining bullets on me . Travel time of the round is one of the BIGGEST disadvantages of the weapon at range. Get too close on us and we are very likely to go down with you. Dont get mad that MD users more than any other user is an expert at MANAGING THIER OPTIMAL RANGE. Because unlike all the rest of you nube weapon users we have a very tight optimal range in which we DOMINATE, outside of this its all SKILL that allows us to walk away the victor. Too far and we're likely to die from contnous fire in between our shots while they take time to travel to our target. Too close and we're likely to commit suicide and almost never survive past 1-2 kills, ARs, HMG, LR, Snipers etc none of them have the kind of tight window like we do. Now quit the QQ and Get good scrubs.
Tidaen Nova Corps Marines 20	Posted - 2013.02.22 20:08:00 - [23] - Quote Quote: and it also has something no other weapon in the game has: Suppression Effect. Please inform us of your definition of suppression effect. Firing one round every 1.6 seconds (average with reload) for a total of 18 rounds makes a pretty terrible suppression weapon. I'll take a laser rifle or HMG over a Mass Driver any day for keeping enemies behind cover. Now, for KILLING those enemies behind cover - I'll take the MD . I really feel like the posted article is based upon ignorance of the weaknesses of the Mass Driver, if I am repeatedly getting killed by lasers - I don't forum post about how OP lasers are. Instead I grab a SMG or Sniper rifle and fix the problem. I recommend the author of the article do the same.
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders Red Rock Consortium 295	Posted - 2013.02.22 21:33:00 - [24] - Quote Tidaen wrote: Quote: and it also has something no other weapon in the game has: Suppression Effect. Please inform us of your definition of suppression effect. Firing one round every 1.6 seconds (average with reload) for a total of 18 rounds makes a pretty terrible suppression weapon. I'll take a laser rifle or HMG over a Mass Driver any day for keeping enemies behind cover. Now, for KILLING those enemies behind cover - I'll take the MD . I really feel like the posted article is based upon ignorance of the weaknesses of the Mass Driver, if I am repeatedly getting killed by lasers - I don't forum post about how OP lasers are. Instead I grab a SMG or Sniper rifle and fix the problem. I recommend the author of the article do the same. Other weapons can be used to suppress, in that you stick your head up it gets shot, but the MD explosions actively disrupt your ability to see and shoot. Maybe disruption would be a better term than suppression.
Sontie VENGEANCE FOR HIRE 95	Posted - 2013.02.22 21:36:00 - [25] - Quote I'm a skilled user with a type B assault suit, 2 complex shield extenders, and a complex shield recharger and with my EXO-5 I will lose to a skilled GEK in a long range battle every time, a mid range battle 90% of the time, and a close range battle 80% of the time. It doesn't do as much DPS as a AR, it just does nice bursts of damage. The weapon is only good for what it's role is, area denial. And with our ammo reserves, we can't deny an area for long. It can kill damage mod AR's pretty decently, but those suckers needed a counter. Even a 10% damage reduction will make the Mass Driver useless. maybe a 10-20% splash radius spread decrease would work, or a 20% damage increase with a 50% splash radius decrease. This game is obviously not shaking up into a game where everything is perfectly balanced for 1v1. The balance will come with the COST. Mass Drivers are DAMNED EXPENSIVE! My suit with a freedom costs 140k! In a skirmish I can easily lose as much as a tank. And your complaining about AOE damage is like an archer complaining about a mages damage... when archers often beat mages. Mass Drivers require a different set of tactics to beat than an AR. Since most of you don't know what those skills are, this allows us to destroy your KDR which is what makes you want us nerfed. God I hate AR people. (I'd be ok with you suggested alterations of the MD IF AND ONLY IF it also became a sidearm. Otherwise it would be completely useless. A clip of 4 and a reload of 5 seconds? are you freaking kidding me? Now, if splash was 300 and direct hits where 550 maybe...)
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 3064	Posted - 2013.02.22 21:44:00 - [26] - Quote That would be terrible STRONGLY APPOSE MD does low dps for splash, only medium dps for direct damage despite being the hardest gun to land a direct hit with, low ammo count, high fitting requirements, risk of self harm, round travel time, and firing arc. In exchange for these drawbacks, it gets ok splash damage within a certain radius, and the "suppression" effect. Make an alt spec into the MD, and compare your success with the MD with your success with the AR, shotgun, laser, and sniper rifle; I think you'll find it balanced for a short to medium range weapon. I'm not a great player, and i use nothing but militia gear and my exile AR (basically a standard AR BPO). I'm not specializing until the new weapons and suits arrive. Despite this, I have no problems killing mass driver users. I rarely ever see MD users in first place with lots of kills either. You need to not only see its strengths, but experience its weaknesses. Compare your success witth the MD with results from other light weapons (AR, shotgun, laser, sniper). Your unfounded misinformed opinions could lead to nerfs that ruin legitimate balanced weapons/playstyles, and make them not worth using anymore (and a waste to develop and add to the game to begin with). A standard basic variant assault rifle contains more damage per magazine than a mass driver, and is way easier to use since it just shoots exactly where you point without having to predict paths. The standard basic variant assault rifle (which does 31 damage per shot) for example has 387.5 damage PER SECOND, which means in 2 SECONDS, it does 775 damage, enough to kill basically anyone but a well built heavy (which would just a second more second). The assault rifle can be used effectively at a greater ranges, and has no risk of damaging the user at close range unlike the mass driver. Compare this to a basic variant standard mass diver. An MD fires 60 rounds per minute, which is 1 round per second. It does 225 shots per second if its a direct hit; did you read that? only 225 per second, and that is ONLY if you get a direct hit (rare). The basic variant standard AR does 387.5. Landing a direct hit with a mass driver not only takes more skill to do then getting direct hits with the AR (since you have to predict trajectory), but also does LESS damage per second. Now to the splash damage, the splash damage is 115 per shot (and per second since 1 shot per second), and that is usually all you will get since direct hits are rare. 387.5 > 225 387.5 > 115
DEADPOOL5241 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 231	Posted - 2013.02.22 22:54:00 - [27] - Quote So proud of my fellow MD players that know MD are not OP at all. Also MD is harder to play then an AR is fact.
Nova Knife Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 785	Posted - 2013.02.25 00:24:00 - [28] - Quote Personally, I feel that the buff to the splash radius was too much. It was great before they buffed it. The clip size was a much welcome change, and the splash radius was like 2.5-3m which meant at level 5 it would have a 4m splash (What it has now before any skills affect it) Now though... I think the standard variant has too much of a combination of good splash radius + splash damage, which is never a good thing. As an interesting sidenote, Dusters actually approached me wanting my input on balancing things. I told them I have something in progress that I didn't want to really weigh in on with snippets until the whole thing was done so that it was not misconstrued out of context, and they were welcome to help. Rather than accept that offer, they chose to publish their own shorts on the Mass Driver and Nova Knives, with horribly flawed information suggesting they have pretty much never touched the things they comment on, more than picking it up maybe once and then deciding they knew all about it.
Jotun Hiem Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 412	Posted - 2013.02.25 00:26:00 - [29] - Quote Heavy here. I think the Mass Driver is fine, at the moment. It's a pain in the ass for me, but I'm an armor tanker so that's kind of how it should work. If anything on the MD could be improved, it would probably be a slight reduction to splash radius, but I don't think it's really needed.
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 1058	Posted - 2013.02.25 01:23:00 - [30] - Quote Complete bullshit First of all, it takes far more skill than an assault rifle- the firing arc is really hard to get used to, and you'll kill yourself if you aren't careful. Not to mention how slow moving the round is. Second, what ****** started saying they have too high a RoF? It's pretty damn slow in reality. Always try a weapon before moaning for a nerf.



Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online/DUST514, the EVE/DUST514 logo, EVE/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to OMG Labs to use EVE Online/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, OMG Labs. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.