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2100 Angels
The Southern Legion
9
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Posted - 2013.02.21 04:58:00 -
[61] - Quote
I don't understand why there's so much whine about snipers. Seriously, harden up. Any sniper worth his kit can take out snipers on the opposing team, and when there are no snipers on the opposing team they have free reign to pick off players on the battlefield. This is entirely reasonable and how the mechanic was intended. This is the role of a sniper; to stay in a relatively safe position far away from the action and provide support for their team.
Snipers are very easily countered by anybody who knows what they're doing, and in fact in more recent times its becoming increasingly rare to see a sniper get the ~20-25 kills which was more common only a month ago. If you ask me, it's more efficient to get into a type 2 assault suit with a gek and an armour rep and go 40-10 than it is to snipe so for the love of god stop crying nerf and get a grip. When I snipe, I spend most of my time killing other snipers so that I can avoid being killed.
Red line sniping however, is a seperate issue. The red line should be altered so that there are no effective vantage points to encourage this sort of play and so that other classes do pose some modicum of threat. On the flip side though, I think that there should be more vantage points incorporated into the maps. Currently, there are only 3-4 really good spots on each map (sometimes less), making finding snipers a lot less of a challenge than what it could be. |
BaD FuRrYV2
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
11
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Posted - 2013.02.21 04:59:00 -
[62] - Quote
Finn Kempers wrote:I hear plenty of QQ for and against them, mostly against. But why? It's usually because you're going 10-0 and then out of nowehere. "XXX NT-511 Sniper Rifle You" on the killfeed. And if there's one thing we hate with a passion more than shotguns and lampposts, its pussies hiding in the hills relaxing and picking people off while drinking their coffee. Gotta hate them cowards. Face us on the ground like a man and settle this! Have at ya! But wait! He doesn't want to why so? That is because of current mechanics in-game. As-is, when you zoom in you have initial sway that will kick like a mule in any random direction (used to be fixed direction). You never actually zoom into the exact spot you did. Hooray, no quick scoping! Oh wait, it looks like it only settles if you stay rock still, otherwise you you will aim like a drunk man. But there's more! If you crouch onto your knees, you settle sway even more. Fair enough, rests those arms. Oh wait I have sniper operation 5....WHAT NO SWAY THIS IS NOT LEGIT. Must...resist...exploiting...game mechanics... Basically by sitting in the hills with their George Foreman grill they actually are using the sniping mechanics properly, They are doing it right. But isn't that a little unfair, being forced to camp and munch bacon while picking people from silly distances? I mean, they cant even get you unless they countersnipe. My point is, CCP has made it so with snipers that Camping >>>>> moving with team. if you grt pissed off for it, don't blame them, the game forces them to if they want to survive. What we should be doing is suggesting how mechanics should be changed such that snipers will camp less, yet not make them useless over AR's. My personal suggestion is increase recovery time/recoil but decrease sway while moving. Post away down here. "Gotta hate them cowards. " only nerds rage over this stuff dont be a nerd. |
Vin Vicious
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
14
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Posted - 2013.02.21 05:57:00 -
[63] - Quote
2100 Angels wrote:I don't understand why there's so much whine about snipers. Seriously, harden up. Any sniper worth his kit can take out snipers on the opposing team, and when there are no snipers on the opposing team they have free reign to pick off players on the battlefield. This is entirely reasonable and how the mechanic was intended. This is the role of a sniper; to stay in a relatively safe position far away from the action and provide support for their team.
Snipers are very easily countered by anybody who knows what they're doing, and in fact in more recent times its becoming increasingly rare to see a sniper get the ~20-25 kills which was more common only a month ago. If you ask me, it's more efficient to get into a type 2 assault suit with a gek and an armour rep and go 40-10 than it is to snipe so for the love of god stop crying nerf and get a grip. When I snipe, I spend most of my time killing other snipers so that I can avoid being killed.
Red line sniping however, is a seperate issue. The red line should be altered so that there are no effective vantage points to encourage this sort of play and so that other classes do pose some modicum of threat. On the flip side though, I think that there should be more vantage points incorporated into the maps. Currently, there are only 3-4 really good spots on each map (sometimes less), making finding snipers a lot less of a challenge than what it could be.
lol, you mean the guy thats in the frontlines right? flux nading heavies so maybe he can take him out before his squad notices all while dodging perma steady scope sniper fire? that guy right?
you RARELY see an AR player going 40 and anything. |
2100 Angels
The Southern Legion
9
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Posted - 2013.02.21 06:31:00 -
[64] - Quote
Vin Vicious wrote:
lol, you mean the guy thats in the frontlines right? flux nading heavies so maybe he can take him out before his squad notices all while dodging perma steady scope sniper fire? that guy right?
you RARELY see an AR player going 40 and anything.
....no. I regularly have 30+ kill games when I run Assault/AR with my 1mil SP char. I see plenty of players do exactly the same. |
Syther Shadows
CowTek
7
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Posted - 2013.02.21 06:57:00 -
[65] - Quote
I have seen a LOT of good ideas in this thread
1. bullet drop. duh ~
2. more focus on Intel gathering. well ye but if we can see the target shouldn't we just shoot them ? or act as a area denial system and any enemy who wants to poke there head out of specific bits of cover do so at there own risk
3. semi close combat sniping well this would be good for medium to long ranged engagements and allow people who don't attempt to flank there enemy and just take pot shots at them to learn a good lesson
4. make all snipers have to charge up im already using that sniper it works wonders on the heavy's head
personally i think a few things can be done to snipers
"increase the cpu of a sniper"
you are using a device that is using super advanced ammo that can travel Way further than normal ammo
"increase the uses scan radius with it on" so they fire and they light up like a wild fire on the enemy teams map
"allows for more variation"
so a sniper that has high damage and small sway and a lower scan radius but its range has been cut down to the range of a ar
forcing you into medium ranged combat but the reduced scan radius makes it easier for you to flank your enemy and fire for a "safe" reasonable distance
but one of the best points that has been made in this post is
"you can't do anything with the sniper it would either become under powered or over powered" this is extremely true what we have now is a close to good game system the only things people dislike are the mechanics that are being exploited like behind red line fire "points for these kills should be removed and death behind this location should be removed" so if players want kills then they have to push the enemy back and fight on there terms the enemy did push them into a corner after all
but at the same time the enemy shouldn't be able to spawn near the front line so your team has a chance to take a good foot hold back
also more option in spawn locations so its not all aim for those hills and wait for them to poke there heads out
but regardless of everything there is SO MUCH that ccp still has left they can do
its amazing and the game is still free to play so i say we should just enjoy our self's with what we have and see what comes along pros will always find that is the best for competitive play
and pubs will always be stomped by good players
and things will always change idk how many of you play eve but whats just been implemented
i just have to say wow. i love this universe. |
Rasatsu
Much Crying Old Experts
437
|
Posted - 2013.02.21 07:59:00 -
[66] - Quote
What's the whining about snipers?...
I barely ever seem them these days, much more prevalent in early beta and since open I've had perhaps 3 games where there was any noticeable presence. |
sharted pantaloon
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
35
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Posted - 2013.02.21 08:15:00 -
[67] - Quote
Rasatsu wrote:What's the whining about snipers?...
I barely ever seem them these days, much more prevalent in early beta and since open I've had perhaps 3 games where there was any noticeable presence.
"please shoot me." Noted. |
Laurent Cazaderon
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
1155
|
Posted - 2013.02.21 09:04:00 -
[68] - Quote
As anyone suggesting making sniper not a simple "point and click" weapon ? Adding a real recoil that just doesnt bumps and then puts you right back on your target ? Or i dunno, adding some kind of skill to using it, like making it an actual projectile based weapon that would need a bit trajectory work ?
I never played as a sniper in any game before Dust. And i rock thirty kills on most maps with the standard one when i need to talk about corp stuff while playing |
General John Ripper
Baltar Research
22
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Posted - 2013.02.21 10:21:00 -
[69] - Quote
snipers need snacks. so they can bring their snacks with them while they are camping and munch on a taco or two. |
TV Repair Guy
Resheph Interstellar Strategy Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2013.02.21 11:22:00 -
[70] - Quote
Since when isn't it a skill to hit a small target moving in erratic directions?
I say the AR should take more skill, make the assault guy's arms get tired and the rifle sway all over the place, lol. |
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Takahiro Kashuken
Intara Direct Action Caldari State
102
|
Posted - 2013.02.21 12:00:00 -
[71] - Quote
Remove them
Or just remove all points for actions in the redzone and any kills obtained are not counted |
Soozu
5o1st
4
|
Posted - 2013.02.21 12:20:00 -
[72] - Quote
I snipe, and I have a few points that haven't been brought up.
I'd like to see: the ability for a sniper class to start the match and spawn with his secondary weapon equipped. Get 5-6 spawns in a row as a sniper next to a heavy and well,, you'll beg for this. A small hope of survival. Nerf the militia sniper rifle. It's OP as a freebie starter weapon, any toon can switch to sniper and be way too effective. And yes, I'm guilty of this as my secondary character. Make people work for the better gun. You can't run up a tally in any other starter kit like that of a sniper.
Sniper rifles only have 3-5 shots per clip. That is low. And I'm fine with it. Any higher and THEN you would have a right to whine about something, and I would give it to you. <-- This explains why they can travel so far so fast with no drop. More powerful bullet.
There are tactics to dealing with snipers in the mountains, other snipers naturally come to mind. I've spent entire battles not even having a go at the people on the battlefield. I couldn't.... Ever seen the movie 'Enemy at the Gates'? Just like that, SNIPER BATTLE. It happens and if you're on the ground you might not even know there is a whole other personal war going on around you.
I can think of other tactics to deal with me, but frankly, I ain't telling. But the game does have them.
Hitting a moving target while he jumps around is harder than you think. Add a distance and all the popup info of guys he's grouped with and the objects his team owns plastering the area around him in RED until you can only make out his feet when he hits the ground, well,,,, I give a little cheer when I bag one and reward myself with a sip of coffee. I earned it. I'd like the option to not see all that red popup info. I'll just assume everybody is full up on health and aim for the head and then when I bag one, check the ticker to see who it was.
Because of map size and spawn points, snipers in skirmishes have it good. However, snipers in ambushes can have it bad, real bad. Nor are all maps equal in the eyes of a sniper. Some don't lend itself to it at all.
Careful, I practice shooting from the hip.
Soozu - 5o1st |
Fivetimes Infinity
Immobile Infantry
1086
|
Posted - 2013.02.21 15:17:00 -
[73] - Quote
SSBBW Amber wrote:I disagree, people care about realism. If they didn't there wouldn't be anyone yelling something is OP. You claim that to be a better sniper, the sniper needs to be more engaged in the combat by being closer to the action, I disagree..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MK4SEoBFXk
People do not care about realism. Nobody is asking for CCP to include the mercs taking a coffee break, or going to the bathroom before getting in their dropsuit, or taking a nap because they've just done 10 missions in a row. Realism doesn't matter. What matters is that the game is fun. People don't like things being imbalanced because it isn't fun. Not because, in fact, a forge gun in real life is supposed to do X and Y, but CCP only has it doing X. The only thing that matters is that Dust is a good, fun game.
And I did not claim that to be a "better sniper" the sniper needs to be closer to the action. I said that making sniper take skill would encourage snipers to get more involved in the action, because shooting from 500 m away from atop a mountain would get fewer kills due to hitting small, distant, moving targets would be much more difficult. It has nothing to do with the sniper himself being better. Instead, it has to do with improving Dust by making snipers an actual part of the game, rather than just non-contributors around the periphery.
And I didn't watch your video, as I assume it's dumb real world tryhard sniper nonsense that has nothing to do with video games. |
Zyrus Amalomyn
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
29
|
Posted - 2013.02.21 15:53:00 -
[74] - Quote
Syther Shadows wrote:I have seen a LOT of good ideas in this thread
1. bullet drop. duh ~
(We don't fire bullets, we fire kinetically charged flechettes. Learn the difference)
2. more focus on Intel gathering. well ye but if we can see the target shouldn't we just shoot them ? or act as a area denial system and any enemy who wants to poke there head out of specific bits of cover do so at there own risk
(We already have this, it's called scan profiles)
3. semi close combat sniping well this would be good for medium to long ranged engagements and allow people who don't attempt to flank there enemy and just take pot shots at them to learn a good lesson
(Tactical sniper rifle)
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SSBBW Amber
Church of the Unforgiven
26
|
Posted - 2013.02.21 17:59:00 -
[75] - Quote
Fivetimes Infinity wrote:People do not care about realism. Nobody is asking for CCP to include the mercs taking a coffee break, or going to the bathroom before getting in their dropsuit, or taking a nap because they've just done 10 missions in a row. Realism doesn't matter. What matters is that the game is fun. People don't like things being imbalanced because it isn't fun. Not because, in fact, a forge gun in real life is supposed to do X and Y, but CCP only has it doing X. The only thing that matters is that Dust is a good, fun game.
And I did not claim that to be a "better sniper" the sniper needs to be closer to the action. I said that making sniper take skill would encourage snipers to get more involved in the action, because shooting from 500 m away from atop a mountain would get fewer kills due to hitting small, distant, moving targets would be much more difficult. It has nothing to do with the sniper himself being better. Instead, it has to do with improving Dust by making snipers an actual part of the game, rather than just non-contributors around the periphery.
And I didn't watch your video, as I assume it's dumb real world tryhard sniper nonsense that has nothing to do with video games.
I think its funny you actually believe the garbage coming out of your mouth. Bullet drop, bullet flight time, all things suggested in this very thread. All real things, realism, people care about it, because for some realism and fun go hand in hand.
Dedicated snipers don't snipe for 50+ kills, they snipe for WOW moments. Moments that are youtube worthy, moments where other players says "holy ****, did you see that ******* head shot from 600 meters while that guy was in an LAV?" That is what snipers live for. Not the, "Oh man, I got 50 kills just like 3 other players", moment. Snipers are involved in the action every time they take out the other guy in the hills and then go back to watching your back while some one tries to come up behind you.
While the video is about a real world sniper, one who happens to hold the longest shot in the world, not one who was concerned with being "more involved in the action, because shooting from 500 m away from atop a mountain would get fewer kills due to hitting small, distant, moving targets would be much more difficult. It has nothing to do with the sniper himself being better." But you are right, it has nothing to do with video game snipers, so here is a link that does:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x11ZuZiFqwo
Thats what real game snipers like to do. |
Keeriam Miray
Vacuum Cleaner. LLC
1
|
Posted - 2013.02.21 22:33:00 -
[76] - Quote
We have a RAILGUN sniper rifles in Dust 514, that shoots bullets (charges) with 2500m\sec velocity... No bullet drop in current maps size. & max distance we can hit something, is like MCC from 750m. It's instahit system at where your dot is... for now. |
Finn Kempers
BetaMax.
222
|
Posted - 2013.02.21 23:17:00 -
[77] - Quote
Keeriam Miray wrote:We have a RAILGUN sniper rifles in Dust 514, that shoots bullets (charges) with 2500m\sec velocity... No bullet drop in current maps size. & max distance we can hit something, is like MCC from 750m. It's instahit system at where your dot is... for now. Its legit so yeah no reason for drop with freakin railguns. I like the discussion guys, just for clarification I snipe myself and typically move with the team or countersnipe. My sniping usually involves helping my corp squad take objectives by killing enemies at a point or keeping them away from from points by sniping enemies before they reach points, not to mention scouting via mic. Also I agree there does need to be a spotting mechanic |
Israckcatarac
Opus Arcana Orion Empire
3
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Posted - 2013.02.21 23:44:00 -
[78] - Quote
I love creaping up behind a sniper with my HVY, Mele tap them once and when they turn around the last thing they see is the big barrel of the HMG. I have noticed that most of these types of complaint's on the forums are easily fixed by simply joining a proper Corps and Squad up. |
Cortez The Killer
Immobile Infantry
186
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 04:42:00 -
[79] - Quote
Preacher Death 2 wrote:Would like to see some bullet drop in the game.
I'll go with this, so long as the optics have hash marks. No doubt it has been discussed in a CCP dev round-table already. More than likely it would cause more programming trouble than good while the basic gameplay is still being worked on. It would make a good addition down the road though.
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