DUST Search - We need redline sniping fixed.

fred orpaul wrote:

137H4RGIC wrote:

Primarily, I am a tank pilot. I love driving me tanks. And in the map where there's mountains everywhere and rock formations in the middle (Not sure what it's called) One of two things are happening on that map. Sniper Swarm Launchers/Forge Guns or Snipers. Rarely will I ever see a heavy or an assault, or a logi for that matter.

Different maps call for different class compisitions. Naturally you will be strong on one map, and weak in another. I've noticed that in Installation maps, my tank is a lot stronger as it has more cover to hide in and bank around. Snipers naturally have a much more difficult time on those maps. In open terrain maps with lots of visibility, those maps will favor the classes that rely on range. Such as snipers.

In short, Tanks get Hate because they are OP in some maps where CQC is called for, why? Because they're nearly impossible to kill at CQ. They kill you (usually) faster before you can do anything about it.

Snipers get hate because they are OP in some maps where Long range combat is called for, why? Because they're so far away that your AR, HMG, or SMG won't reach them, and you're at the mercy of their scopes. In short? All classes are working as intended. Having been playing a Sniper class the past few days, I feel that this insight is unbiased and largely true for any class that benefits from certain maps.

the problem isn't losing a match because of getting sniped the problem is losing a match because of your waste of a team redline sniping, there should be no reason ever for matches to turn into sniping wars on the red line.

that said the Idiots that use the insane depth of their red line to make it almost impossible to shoot them so they can pad stats by going 20-0(i'll admit to great respect for their skills) are borderline exploit users.

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Shijima Kuraimaru WarRavens 168	Posted - 2013.02.11 02:34:00 - [61] - Quote fred orpaul wrote: 137H4RGIC wrote: Primarily, I am a tank pilot. I love driving me tanks. And in the map where there's mountains everywhere and rock formations in the middle (Not sure what it's called) One of two things are happening on that map. Sniper Swarm Launchers/Forge Guns or Snipers. Rarely will I ever see a heavy or an assault, or a logi for that matter. Different maps call for different class compisitions. Naturally you will be strong on one map, and weak in another. I've noticed that in Installation maps, my tank is a lot stronger as it has more cover to hide in and bank around. Snipers naturally have a much more difficult time on those maps. In open terrain maps with lots of visibility, those maps will favor the classes that rely on range. Such as snipers. In short, Tanks get Hate because they are OP in some maps where CQC is called for, why? Because they're nearly impossible to kill at CQ. They kill you (usually) faster before you can do anything about it. Snipers get hate because they are OP in some maps where Long range combat is called for, why? Because they're so far away that your AR, HMG, or SMG won't reach them, and you're at the mercy of their scopes. In short? All classes are working as intended. Having been playing a Sniper class the past few days, I feel that this insight is unbiased and largely true for any class that benefits from certain maps. the problem isn't losing a match because of getting sniped the problem is losing a match because of your waste of a team redline sniping, there should be no reason ever for matches to turn into sniping wars on the red line. that said the Idiots that use the insane depth of their red line to make it almost impossible to shoot them so they can pad stats by going 20-0(i'll admit to great respect for their skills) are borderline exploit users. IMO, there's nothing borderline about it. It should be considered an exploit. I have accidentally sniped from the redline but that was merely from the edge of the redline. I could have been shot from the other side of the redline with a scrambler pistol. But I do my best whenever I pick up a sniper rifle, I hate playing sniper, to make sure I'm not redlineing. I do agree that there should be no rewards for kills from behind the red line and that deaths while behind the red line should still be tracked.
Tribalfreak Baham Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 9	Posted - 2013.02.12 12:45:00 - [62] - Quote me thinks the issue of redlining also comes from the fact that you could win matches by killing the other team enough. in skirmish, remove the clones and make it a total objective based match. there won't be much reason to redline then (in theory)
Corineus Albion Commando Perkone Caldari State 3	Posted - 2013.02.25 04:32:00 - [63] - Quote In short; "I didn't pick the gun with the longest range, so everyone should be forced into my engagement range! It's just not fair!"
Professormohawk Stasis Military Support 22	Posted - 2013.02.25 04:36:00 - [64] - Quote you won, right? thats why. 7 redline snipers means the team loses. its already fixed
Jathniel G I A N T 39	Posted - 2013.02.25 13:03:00 - [65] - Quote 137H4RGIC wrote: Primarily, I am a tank pilot. I love driving me tanks. And in the map where there's mountains everywhere and rock formations in the middle (Not sure what it's called) One of two things are happening on that map. Sniper Swarm Launchers/Forge Guns or Snipers. Rarely will I ever see a heavy or an assault, or a logi for that matter. Different maps call for different class compisitions. Naturally you will be strong on one map, and weak in another. I've noticed that in Installation maps, my tank is a lot stronger as it has more cover to hide in and bank around. Snipers naturally have a much more difficult time on those maps. In open terrain maps with lots of visibility, those maps will favor the classes that rely on range. Such as snipers. In short, Tanks get Hate because they are OP in some maps where CQC is called for, why? Because they're nearly impossible to kill at CQ. They kill you (usually) faster before you can do anything about it. Snipers get hate because they are OP in some maps where Long range combat is called for, why? Because they're so far away that your AR, HMG, or SMG won't reach them, and you're at the mercy of their scopes. In short? All classes are working as intended. Having been playing a Sniper class the past few days, I feel that this insight is unbiased and largely true for any class that benefits from certain maps. The most intelligent post in this entire thread, imo as a humble sniper. Corineus Albion wrote: In short; "I didn't pick the gun with the longest range, so everyone should be forced into my engagement range! It's just not fair!" Probably, the funniest post in this entire thread, imo as a humble sniper. It is simply not fun to get sniped, ever. For many people it's maddening. As it should be. It's especially not fun to get sniped by a sniper that's behind the red line of a team, YOU are red lining. "How dare I get killed while I keep this entire team pinned! Anyone that kills me from a place I can't reach with my AR is a damned coward! Sniper is a coward's weapon! You're a ***!" Someone was redlining an enemy team, and was getting sniped. It's that person's own damned fault for exposing themselves by approaching the enemy red line in the first place. Simply put, someone red lined everyone. They thought they were hot , until a sniper blew their brains out, and because they didn't believe it was an equal opportunity engagement; they ask CCP to fix something that isn't broken to have it better tailored to them. Before, an enemy could run right under your MCC, or wait right outside your base. There was almost no defending red zone. Now, the red zone allows a competent team the space necessary to mount a significant counter attack. Snipers from within the red zone can help clear the nearest objective, shoot enemy AV that may try to destroy incoming RDV carrying armor and vehicles, and fire on infantry stupid enough to be running around exposed along the red line. This makes redline sniping a legitimate tactic. If that redline sniper has gone 15-0 or 30-0 in a match and had a good line-of-fire on an objective, whether his team was pinned or not, then he had a successful game. If on the other hand, he is low on kills (like 2), then he isn't being an asset to his team, and should rethink his strategy. Yet you don't find snipers asking CCP for personal red-lines to make sure you guys don't get close. Suck it up. Thank you, CCP. For a red line that allows a defending team a chance. Y0UR NAME HERE wrote: Livith Kai wrote: GoD-NoVa wrote:** i say if they are in the redline, they wont get any points till they leave So then what about when all the points are in control of the enemy? They are at the border of the redline camping your team? A sniper will get no points for trying to help get out of that situation? Doesn't sound like a good idea to me. game should simply end, have a timer countdown from the start of you being redlined, say 5 minutes. If you can't capture an objective in that amount of time, end the game. How does a game timer address the issue of points that GoD-NoVa raised? Every member of a team deserves to get their war points for participation, and especially for trying to resist a red line suppression. Okay forget it. There's too much vitriol here to get any reasonable dialog going. if the situation is in reverse, and your team has too many snipers, and no objectives are getting captured, that's not something CCP can do anything about. That's entirely because those people enjoy sniping. Completely replacing hitscan snipers with ballistic snipers won't change that, you will simply open a whole new can of worms and demands if you introduce that to the game. You will STILL get plenty of baby noob snipers, except now, they all can't hit anything. Which won't be any different than it is NOW, when you get a whole team of snipers, and you hear their gunfire, but none of them are getting kills. I'm not against ballistics. All I'm saying is that removing the railgun-hitscan snipers, and replacing them entirely with ballistic snipers will by no means fix the issues you're trying to address, and you're simply going to make more yourself more grief. Fighting a sniper in real life, is not supposed to be an equal opportunity engagement. It's not fair for YOU at long-range, but it's definitely not fair for the sniper at close-range. But this is a game, and with the current hitscan system, an equal opportunity against sniper's at long range actually exists. You too, can pick up a sniper rifle and counter snipe into a red zone. Isn't game balance what you are concerned about?
BASSMEANT ZionTCD Legacy Rising 110	Posted - 2013.02.25 13:33:00 - [66] - Quote get rid of the red line altogether. turn on FF. fixes all the problems. i have less of a problem with enemy snipers then the 6 micless, squadless morons sitting on top of the hill overlooking b, with that huge 4/2 kd that is REALLY helping us out... cept we have no flags. and these friggin dbags, none of em will get up and take. so yeah bring back FF. and get rid of the redline altogether. if folks wanna paint themselves into a corner, then fine, they should get what they have coming. if that means being spawn trapped below the mcc because the CRU was destroyed, so be it. quit with the casual gamer hand holding CCP. Peace B
Vermaak Doe SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 385	Posted - 2013.02.25 13:36:00 - [67] - Quote Simple fix, CONCORDOKEN for killing from or so one behind the redline.
Alex Bradshaw Carbon 7 3	Posted - 2013.02.26 03:11:00 - [68] - Quote Y0UR NAME HERE wrote: This has gotten ridiculous. Yes, I'm mad lol. I just played a game, with I'd say 7 people doing objectives the rest sniping in the redline. It's recorded too :P Its just extremely annoying atm, Yes I can switch out to a sniper class and counter snipe, yes I did, yes all I got was hit detection bugs :) Kinda crazy this stuff hasn't been fixed, fix the hit detection or fix the redline, whichever is the easiest. This game should be about getting the objectives, not hiding for KDR. wen't from 17-1 to 17-9 because they all started sniping :) At the end I just spawned in the MCC and let my team get cloned, regardless we were gunna win from the enemy MCC damage. +1 had a game tonight, saw 3 snipers being repeatedly dropped in by dropship, nice relaxing game for them.
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 384	Posted - 2013.02.26 03:30:00 - [69] - Quote Jathniels post (it's too large to quote) This pretty much sums up everything that can be said in defence of keeping things as they are, and you all know he's right, it's not the game causing these problems it's the players, as YOUR NAME HERE said it's "annoying" not game breaking "annoying". The redline exists for a reason we all know that, so removing it isn't an option and some of the ideas put down here to "punish" someone with a different playstyle to your own will also cause problems for players who are getting redlined and need every advantage they can get to out and back into the game. There are hitbox problems that can make counter sniping an issue so fix them, and one of your major problems are solved. At the end of the day redline sniping is as valid a play stlye as playing a triage logi, an AV heavy, a tanker, a pilot, and all the other play styles in dust. It is ******* annoying though
Finn Kempers BetaMax. 222	Posted - 2013.02.26 14:18:00 - [70] - Quote Moar tears of blood >:D Seriously though look at it this way. What was a sniper intended for? To shoot someone at low risk. Dust does that well. I feel like some games have corrupted what snipers are meant to do, which is not run around like a headless chicken with a 50 cal. However I would (as a sniper) ask for a reduction of RPM. While I feel headshots and damage atm are fine, the RPM seems a tad too fast for a sniper. CCP could come up with a suitable Handwave like "the electromagnets needed to fire the flechette in the rail/coilgun require time to cool down/charge up.

Soraya Xel Gentlemen's Foreign Legion Gentlemen's Agreement 6	Posted - 2013.02.26 16:13:00 - [71] - Quote If I can hit you, you can hit me. Unless you suck.
Severus Smith ZionTCD Legacy Rising 163	Posted - 2013.02.26 17:16:00 - [72] - Quote They can be easily dealt with. They just need to fix the hit detection bugs. I have a counter sniper suit specifically for red line snipers. It's a Heavy Type A with 2x Complex damage / armor mods. Its funny to watch the sniper I'm beading in on try desperately to go through my 1000+ HP with his militia rifle before I end him with mine. Only time it sucks is when the hit detection bug loses me a kill. Fixing that will allow you to actually countersnipe redline snipers which will restore balance to the world.
Monkxx Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 20	Posted - 2013.02.26 17:55:00 - [73] - Quote I see red line sniping as following: Players spawn as sniper in the beginning of the match as snipers. They don't have to leave the deadzone("red zone") because they can see the battlefield from their spawn or the "red zone". In this case problem lies in the bad map design and way too big "red zone". What is needed to fix is spawn locations for the teams to prevent both teams from sniping each other. Eventually decrease the size of the deadzone. Look at Battlefield 2(3) - that game doesn't have spawn sniping issues but that's mostly due to the fact that assault rifles don't shoot for 50m...Who thinks that is a great idea,btw? One team gets redlined and can't leave its spawn ("red zone"). 3-5 min timer should fix the issue. Perhaps, also decrease the "red zone" radius.


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