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Why does everyone hate the idea of jetpacks?

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madd greazy OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 27	Posted - 2013.02.03 13:13:00 - [1] - Quote Jetpacks would be just plain awesome in dust. I've heard people saying, "oh jetpacks willl make people think its a halo clone", and other crp like that. just so everyone could be clear on this, Halo was not the first FPS with jetpacks! Also who cares what people think of other games, this is dust, not something else. But seriously, what would be wrong with jetpacks? There are many simple ways to avoid jetpacks becoming too OP. For starters, jetpacks will only be able to provide a certain amount of thrust. Thrust can be limited by several factors, one would be: The weight of a dropsuit, the heavier the dropsuit is, the slower it will accelerate with a jetpack. Therefore the suits type, sub-tybe and modules equipped will end up determining its overall weight. In the favor of how CCP has run/sprint speeds set up, we'll say that the fastest suits would be inherently the lightest. With 1 being the lightest and 4 being the heaviest, including suit sub-types: 1: Scout Type II: 7.8 m/s 2: Scout Type I: 7.7 m/s 3: Assault Type II: 7.1 m/s 4: Logistics Type II/Assault Type I: 7 m/s 5: Logistics Type I: 6.6 m/s 6:Heavy Type II: 5.5 m/s 7: Heavy Type II: 5.1 m/s This list uses the suits base stats. So, with this system, lets get some hypothetical numbers in place. Using the average clone weight of 185 pounds and approximate (hypothetical) weights of dropsuits, we can reach a total approx. weight. 1 = approx. 300 pounds 2 = approx. 320 pounds 3 = approx. 350 pounds 4 = approx. 485 pounds 5 = approx. 400 pounds 6 = approx. 485 pounds 7 = approx. 550 pounds * lets not forget that the drosuits are hydraulically assisted using internal sensors, to make it possible for a human to operate such a heavy outfit. ** Also these weights would not include potential armor plating, which would increase a suits weight and therefore reduce it's speed and benefit from thrust. Jetpacks (strictly the module, not the effect on the dropsuit) can have different thrust levels depending on either meta/technology level, "jetpack operation" skill or a combination of the both. Lets say for example: A basic Type I jetpack, should have approximately these stats: Burn time: 6 seconds Thrust amount: 565 pounds of thrust Recharge time: 12 seconds (from 0) Move speed penatly: 3% Scan profile penalty : 10% (only during use) * A proper PG and CPU cost can be determined later ** As well as a proper slot allocation Having a thrust amount slightly higher than the heaviest available dropsuit in the game, would give the Type I Jetpack the ability to give said dropsuit a very small amount of lift while in use. Basically just a small amount of lift past the ability to hover in place. The lighter dropsuits on the other hand would gain a nice, jump and boost ability giving them the option to reach low buildings or rooftops from ground level, without having to climb deathtraps... i mean ladders. The jetpack operation skill can be defined as strictly a prereq. for other types of jetpacks like the current dropsuit system. Whereas level one training only unlocks Type I suits, and level II training unlocks different variants of the Type I before becoming Advanced Tech. A possible Type II variant could have increased PG cost for slightly higher thrust levels. Possibly less upward thrust, resulting in more forward thrust, or even a reduction in the move speed penalty from equipping the jetpack. Perhaps a jetpack proficiency skill could be used to increase lift or burn time. Heck multiple jetpack skills could be utilized, modifying recharge time, burn time, thrust, even CPU/PG cost. Jetpacks should be an equippable module, whether it is a high/low slot or equipment slot, they should only need to be activated by holding the x button after a jump to engage them for immediate lift. Just some more notes as to why they couldn't get too OP: 1: There is nowhere on any of the maps you could get to with a jetpack, that you couldn't get to with a dropship. 2: Only the players willing the sacrifice a module slot as well as having the required amount of PG/CPU for a jetpack will be using them. 3: Heavies will only benefit by being able to jump the tiny obstacle they can't currently get over (not soar over you). 4: Having a jetpack equipped will actually slow down your move speed until activated. 5: Specialization will be required, as not every player will have the spare SP for a skill they may not always use. 6: Flying too high while taking fire may cause you to fall to your death after your jetpack runs out of boost. 7: Limit jetpack use so that it can not be activated after a certain amount of free fall time to avoid dampener activation or loosing of the ability to fire your weapon in mid-air. 8: Using a jetpack to fly and fire, will only be effective with certain weapons. 9: Flying targets can't maneuver quickly and are easy targets. 10: Jetpacks will only be useful in specific situations, like assaulting cap points or reaching sniper nests. 11: Jetpacks are fun :D Feedback plus your own ideas are always ww
Vyzion Eyri The Southern Legion 155	Posted - 2013.02.03 13:35:00 - [2] - Quote I'm all for jet packs as long as I can safely slam into a flying mercenary without my dropship exploding too.
thesupertman Better Hide R Die 15	Posted - 2013.02.03 15:27:00 - [3] - Quote If they put in a jetpack, they should make it like the one in killzone 3.
madd greazy OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 27	Posted - 2013.02.03 15:36:00 - [4] - Quote Vyzion Eyri wrote: I'm all for jet packs as long as I can safely slam into a flying mercenary without my dropship exploding too. LMAO i don't think jetpacks would get people high enough for that too happen but you're 100% right. lol
Skihids Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 969	Posted - 2013.02.03 15:52:00 - [5] - Quote madd greazy wrote: Vyzion Eyri wrote: I'm all for jet packs as long as I can safely slam into a flying mercenary without my dropship exploding too. LMAO i don't think jetpacks would get people high enough for that too happen but you're 100% right. lol Dropships can't get very high, and they have to take off and land. Right now all you have to do is scratch the paint and they self destruct.
DeathStalker Synchro D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION 24	Posted - 2013.02.03 16:27:00 - [6] - Quote I automatically thought NO JETPACKS!!! But after reading the rest of the OP I guess its not such a bad idea. They just have to be balanced appropriately. And have a great deal of requirements. Oh and the must ultimately have to and I mean HAVE TO explode when I shoot the person down. Nothing makes killing a jetpacker more fun than seeing him go boom in the air.
Mobius Wyvern BetaMax. 1216	Posted - 2013.02.03 18:14:00 - [7] - Quote Tribes is a good game. This game does not need to be Tribes. If there are ever jetpacks of any type, no matter how hard CCP might try to balance them, they will eventually become required to compete and break the entire game. Better to just never even try.
madd greazy OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 27	Posted - 2013.02.03 19:13:00 - [8] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: Tribes is a good game. This game does not need to be Tribes. If there are ever jetpacks of any type, no matter how hard CCP might try to balance them, they will eventually become required to compete and break the entire game. Better to just never even try. With the right limitations and requiring a decent amount of skill points only specialized shock troops/squads will use them, as the SP investment will be too great to make it a must for every other player. Along with the move speed reduction and scan profile penalty when activated, that i suggested, many scouts probably wont even use the jetpacks as they would impeded their scouting ability to some degree, unless all the want is that sniper nest location on a building top or something.
madd greazy OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 27	Posted - 2013.02.03 19:16:00 - [9] - Quote The only real suit type the jetpacks will hold their worth for are the assault suits, they move fast enough and have the strength to act as shock troops.
Terry Webber Gothic Wars Consortium 35	Posted - 2013.02.03 19:47:00 - [10] - Quote As long as they are balanced, jetpacks are fine with me.

Herrick Arcos The Shadow Cavalry Mercenaries 56	Posted - 2013.02.03 19:55:00 - [11] - Quote As this is a future far advanced from us, the concept of using jetpacks in combat is not very far-fetched. I think avoiding the implementation of them into the game simply because they are common in other games is a bit nearsighted. I do however agree that they should fill a very specific role in combat and should be skill intensive. Perhaps they could function more as a jump aid rather than a flight mechanic.
Irish Syn Chernova Industries 123	Posted - 2013.02.03 20:14:00 - [12] - Quote If they made them at least as difficult to maneuver with as dropships that'd be great, would love to see people try a jet pack for the first time and slam into a wall and die.
Arramakaian Eka Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 363	Posted - 2013.02.03 20:41:00 - [13] - Quote I'm all for them. I'm a long-term Tribes player and a fan. But they would require extensive balancing, and the game has much more pressing features lacking and work in progress. SoonGäó.
Booby Tuesdays THE DOLLARS 13	Posted - 2013.02.03 21:08:00 - [14] - Quote Irish Syn wrote: If they made them at least as difficult to maneuver with as dropships that'd be great, would love to see people try a jet pack for the first time and slam into a wall and die. Haha, agreed. They should require quite a bit of SP to skill up as well. Similar to the initial sniper rifle sway, when you first start flying them they should be a bit unwieldy until you have skilled up extensively. I can see it now, jet pack snipers everywhere!
Jason Punk DUST University Ivy League 71	Posted - 2013.02.03 21:19:00 - [15] - Quote Irish Syn wrote: If they made them at least as difficult to maneuver with as dropships that'd be great, would love to see people try a jet pack for the first time and slam into a wall and die. Ha ha he, how about your basic jet packs are simplistic, short boosts meant to assist things like a 10-20 ft climb while the prototype is meant to create a new specialized infantry class by allowing them to tweak their suits and stabilize the packs for continued thrust.... ...but if they crash...oh man, I want fireballs and tears X)
4447 ZionTCD Legacy Rising 650	Posted - 2013.02.03 21:29:00 - [16] - Quote jet packs could give a counter against snipers.
Valmar Shadereaver Lost-Legion 18	Posted - 2013.02.03 21:45:00 - [17] - Quote there are other implimentable thing's then jetpack's whit near the same capabilety's that cuild make it balanced grapling hook like mod for instance whit motorized movment upward and downward so no flying to evade ppl enemy's/aly's that make noise and lure more enemy's a mod for thruster boots to temporarily give increased jump to get on higher obstical's or over wall's either whit fuel based making noise and heat or energy based causing les noise but a distinguisable sound the cooldown shudent be short to ensure ppl not abusing it to evade ppl when under attack wel thats wat i asume the boots trajectory doesent need to be a smal arc and might be able to go for a les high arc for further jump to jump over gap's and other trenchlike structure's thats my 2isk
Grims Tooth Deadly Blue Dots RISE of LEGION 8	Posted - 2013.02.03 22:06:00 - [18] - Quote I like this idea, but make jetpacks use an equipment slot, then heavys couldn't use them at all and assault suits would have to sacrifice their one slot for it. I could see jetpacks being best used in a support role by logis to quickly get in and out of a combat zone to rez and heal people. or placing a drop uplink in a safe place.
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 1062	Posted - 2013.02.03 22:16:00 - [19] - Quote jetpacks are unoriginal and hard to control (when you think about it) I prefer the idea of something to let you climb spiderman style.
KalOfTheRathi CowTek 168	Posted - 2013.02.03 22:41:00 - [20] - Quote As long as there is a Small Arms version of the Swarm launcher that will work on the Jet Packed Merc it would be good. And make them slow enough that I can hit them with a Large Rail Gun Turret. I would love, love that. Probably as much as I like getting head shots with them now. Vaporize at three o'clock.

DeathStalker Synchro D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION 24	Posted - 2013.02.04 01:03:00 - [21] - Quote Grims Tooth wrote: I like this idea, but make jetpacks use an equipment slot, then heavys couldn't use them at all and assault suits would have to sacrifice their one slot for it. I could see jetpacks being best used in a support role by logis to quickly get in and out of a combat zone to rez and heal people. or placing a drop uplink in a safe place. Oh man, I forgot about logi. This should be a definite for them. I'm not a logi ,sadly, but they could sure use something of the sort.
Citrutex The High and Mighty 64	Posted - 2013.02.04 01:22:00 - [22] - Quote As much as i like the idea, Jetpacks would create a pretty big imbalance between controller and mouse users. +1 to the dropship style controls for a jetpack
Buzzwords Deadly Blue Dots RISE of LEGION 416	Posted - 2013.02.04 01:30:00 - [23] - Quote aren't there already enough guys on roofs, mountaintops, pipes, scaffolding, gantries, and for some reason a weird elevated road thing right underneath a rocket engine?
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 1062	Posted - 2013.02.04 01:50:00 - [24] - Quote Citrutex wrote: As much as i like the idea, Jetpacks would create a pretty big imbalance between controller and mouse users. +1 to the dropship style controls for a jetpack On second thought... I like this idea!
Ted Cougarjuice Resheph Interstellar Strategy Gallente Federation 11	Posted - 2013.02.04 02:02:00 - [25] - Quote I oppose the idea of jetpacks. I opposed it when they introduced it in Halo and I oppose it in Dust. It'd make navigating the levels easier. It'd also make fighting head to head more annoying. The aiming system in Dust isn't exactly fluid, and having to make large adjustments because someone has fire shooting out of his butt would not make the game any more fun for me. Not to mention, headshots are crucial in Dust, and it's easy to make adjustments when you're the one jetting, which puts someone who doesn't have a jetpack at a disadvantage. With the finite dropsuit system in Dust, it would marginalize every other piece of tech in whatever slot the jetpack would occupy. It would throw equipment balancing out the window.
Volgair Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 200	Posted - 2013.02.04 02:31:00 - [26] - Quote Fun idea but it should be limited to Jump Jets and even then its still for some reason going to be frowned upon by the community. -Equipment slot Jump Jet instant action 6 seconds max, and only then if it requires a recharge period and the use of both hands. Acceleration should be based on sprint speed. -The "High Thrust Version" for heavies available via the off hand slot. this should have a longer duration but a spool up time. Acceleration should be based on sprint speed.
Patoman Radiant ZionTCD Legacy Rising 53	Posted - 2013.02.04 02:34:00 - [27] - Quote What would jetpacks be, equipment or a midslot or lowslot. A big perk of a pack would be, being able to shoot while in the air, but you can't do that if it is equipment. Mobility would be good for a close range class, with a nova knife or shotgun, but it would bring a delay to landing and shooting a victim if you had to switch out the pack for a gun. How would you use it with current controller setup? Its not impossible, but I can see issues. I think a jump pack suit should be a different suit entirely, being all of the current ones would need to be remodeled for once piece of equipment, and some of them either don't have space or power-plant to support it (light suit) or too heavy (heavy). A assault like suit that has less hp, (lightweight materials) and a jetpack on it, no sprint, instead flys.
Jackof All-Trades Bojo's School of the Trades 79	Posted - 2013.02.04 03:34:00 - [28] - Quote Sure, but make it more lore-friendly. Another thread tried to suggest an 'inertial capacitor' to make you jump way high. Not sure how it goes into lore, but it's a closer step.
Mobius Wyvern BetaMax. 1216	Posted - 2013.02.04 03:55:00 - [29] - Quote madd greazy wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: Tribes is a good game. This game does not need to be Tribes. If there are ever jetpacks of any type, no matter how hard CCP might try to balance them, they will eventually become required to compete and break the entire game. Better to just never even try. With the right limitations and requiring a decent amount of skill points only specialized shock troops/squads will use them, as the SP investment will be too great to make it a must for every other player. Along with the move speed reduction and scan profile penalty when activated, that i suggested, many scouts probably wont even use the jetpacks as they would impeded their scouting ability to some degree, unless all the want is that sniper nest location on a building top or something. I get that you like the idea, but there isn't any way this would be a good addition to this game. I'd support the idea of a cover system before something like this, and I'm not too hot on those, either.
Arron Rift Commando Perkone Caldari State 73	Posted - 2013.02.04 08:10:00 - [30] - Quote I don't think CCP really wants people hovering and having those floating of fire fights. They seem to like people actually walking from point to point, taking cover, etc. Plus they'd have to redesign all the suits to fit a jetpack (where would a logi put his normal backpack full of gear?) I think most people would be open to a gadget that allows people to get to higher ledges though, in which case I think This may be an answer that is simpler, more unique, and easier to fit into the current code by comparison.



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