and your point is? if it would have infinite amount of RPM and deal 0 damage, the damage would be still zero

unlike you, I dont get thet stats from the imaginary ether, I check them ingame. and the AR deals more DPS than the SMG, deal with it. oh and btw, the total damage per reload is higher on the AR as well.

If you want more range, invest in sharpshooter. That's what it is there for. And AR with no sharpshooter has a pretty weak range for the all range weapon it is supposed to be, but again, that's why we have sharpshooter.

As for bullets stopping after a distance, that's because they ARE NOT BULLETS. Plasma disperses after it can't hold itself together anymore. Think about lightning, which is plasma as well. It travels for as far as it can hold itself together, then ends abruptly with slight remnants of it's energy petering out from the ends into nothingness as the energy disperses. This is how our plasma weapons behave, and how they should behave.

Don't try to bring earth weaponry mechanics into a game that has nothing to do with Earth. This is thousands of years in the future in a completely different galaxy in a totally different corner of the universe. People have been trying to bring Earth mechanics into this game since the beginning of the beta and it hasn't worked, so you're not gonna get it to work now. This game is set in a sci-fi world of CCP's creation, and they thereby set the rules of their universe, not a bunch of newberries and half dots who want their favorite weapon buffed.

*Ahem* Sorry... got a little carried away there at the end...

The SMG DOES top the AR on DPM

it's not earth mechanics, it's phsyics, so stop saying "oh it's not earth so phsyics don't apply". secondly, you have to reload the chamber on both the SMG and AR after a reload, so what dose that tell you? i'll give you a hint, there's something being loaded into the chamber. you do NOT need to reload the chamber if you arn't using soild projectiles, you don't need a Barrel if you arn't fireing soild projectiles. everything points to Physical, Soild bullets. the fact that the gun actualy kicks a bit (not enuff to even be consider REAL recoil) means you're fireing something soild. plasma would NOT kick up your gun even a little.

you're not taking into the consideration that AR dose more damage per shot than the SMG. so the smg has A LOT of bullets to make up the damage...so what. the AR dose more in fewer bullets. That's REAL DPS.

You are wrong all over this reply. Read the descriptions of the weapons. The projectiles fired by our weapons are plasma formed into bullet-like shapes using magnetic force. The changing of the clip is the power-pack being depleted that powers the weapons. If you know anything about physics, you would know that everything has an equal and opposite reaction - you couldn't shoot some plasma at extremely high speeds without getting some recoil.

As for your statement about the SMG, yes it does less damage per round but the rate of fire outweighs this quite signifcantly. Without being able to get on right now I couldn't quote the exact figures but it does outpower the AR within the 100% SMG effective range.

You are wrong all over this reply. Read the descriptions of the weapons. The projectiles fired by our weapons are plasma formed into bullet-like shapes using magnetic force. The changing of the clip is the power-pack being depleted that powers the weapons. If you know anything about physics, you would know that everything has an equal and opposite reaction - you couldn't shoot some plasma at extremely high speeds without getting some recoil.

As for your statement about the SMG, yes it does less damage per round but the rate of fire outweighs this quite signifcantly. Without being able to get on right now I couldn't quote the exact figures but it does outpower the AR within the 100% SMG effective range.

SMG outperform AR YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST!

seriously the content of your post is imaginary at its finest

SMGs can never outperform the AR at any range because the AR deals more damage/DPS.

SMGs vs. shotgun, depends on the shotgun, some of them are pretty accurate with good range, so they will still outdamage the SMG.

As for your statement about the SMG, yes it does less damage per round but the rate of fire outweighs this quite signifcantly. Without being able to get on right now I couldn't quote the exact figures but it does outpower the AR within the 100% SMG effective range.

Ignorant newberry is ignorant. Hit up google's calculator and multiply the rpm by the damage per bullet for each weapon. That'll give you the damage per minute. The SMG DOES top the AR on DPM, especially equal lvl SMG vs equal lvl AR. I'd do the math for you right now, but I can't recall the exact damage per bullet on an SMG atm... =( BUT, the DPM on a basic AR (not counting reloads) is 31x750 which equals 23250 DPM minus reload times (which are a lot longer than SMG reloads btw ). Anyone care to run the SMG damage per bullet numbers? Or get me the number so I can run it? I think the RPM is 1000.

As for bullets stopping after a distance, that's because they ARE NOT BULLETS.

The AR loses more damage against an erratic target than the SMG does because of this.

this logic is dump, please more of that dump logic because these are "good" arguments trololo. you said yourself AR does more damage (even when you take the basic AR stats, the numbers in are favor for the AR) but for some reason you are assuming you miss more often with AR than SMG without any conclusive reason. and the best is how you claim that lower accuracy is an advantage, if you cant keep your aim on the target, maybe learn to aim? your post is also a good indication that you also have no clue how ROF affects the recoil. weapon kick stat of the weapon determines how much your accuracy is impaired for EACH shot and it stacks with itself up to a cap. higher ROF results in faster stacking of weapon kick.

You might want to go back and re-read my post. Particularly the part where I already explained very clearly the exact reasons behind WHY there's a benefit to lower accuracy in CQC.

And kick is a part of the CQC advantage for the SMG, because it helps to further reduce accuracy, thus ensure a better chance of hitting a target that isn't moving predictably.

Or are you claiming to be a high-grade psychic capable of reading the minds of other players in far corners of the world with nothing more than their in-game name to work from? Good luck with that.

missing drops your dps, missing also lower your chances for killing. you are eather right in their face (or back) fireing from the hilt or the luckiest man alive with each bullet hiting the target. Spread is great for groups but sence it takes so much to kill one dude with SMG's, yah, you're idea has a major flaw. It's just not a reliable weapon at any range, sence most weapons can not only kill faster, but can kill groups easyer.

You might want to go back and re-read my post. Particularly the part where I already explained very clearly the exact reasons behind WHY there's a benefit to lower accuracy in CQC.

And kick is a part of the CQC advantage for the SMG, because it helps to further reduce accuracy, thus ensure a better chance of hitting a target that isn't moving predictably.

.

Congratulations on continuing to miss the point.

At close range, the AR, even when you spray with it, has a relatively tight grouping. You hit pretty consistently within the crosshairs, even without training up your skill to improve accuracy. You HAVE to be aimed pretty much dead on or your shots are GUARANTEED to miss. ALL of them. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE.

That means, with an erratic target, moving unpredictably, and not standing still or following a path where you can track them easily (have I thrown the same idea at you with enough different words that you get my point yet?), you potentially have as few as 0% of your shots hitting. As you said yourself, it doesn't matter what number you multiply by 0, you still deal no damage. Maybe, if you're lucky, REALLY good or the target screws up, you can get as high as 10% of your shots hitting with the AR against someone competent in CQC. MAYBE.

When my SMG's shots are spreading wide, I don't need to be precise with my aim. I just need to ensure that I keep my crosshairs NEAR the target and I have decent odds on my shots hitting. It's not going to even be 50%, but it's still a LOT better than you're getting with your AR. I'm going to be consistently getting 30% of my shots hitting a target, AT LEAST. Probably more if I'm good at reading their movements. It's still not going to be nearly the 100% you'd need for those earlier damage calculations to apply accurately, and it will be rare to see better than 50% hit accuracy against someone who knows how to handle themselves in close quarters, but that low end of 30% means I'm dealing almost triple the best damage stats you'll see with your AR.

you the get award for the most stupid posts of the day. your logic is dump and you dont get it. if you miss 30% of times then you miss 30% of times with both type of weapons and the damage lost is the same no matter which weapon you hold and it only helps chance to hit for you because you obviously cannot aim. lack of aim is no argument and you cannot control the spread, not to mention that movement in this game is not as fast as it once was and it is really easy to hold the target under the crosshair. I might aswell claim, not firing does more damage because I dont miss same stupid monkey troll logic like yours.

in short: your point is null and void.

Chill, folks. Blacknova is referring to the fact that the un-upgraded SMG is essentially a slow motion shotgun. Unleashing a clip will have a similar spread to a shotgun blast, only with the bullets going out one at a time instead of all at once. If you've got a guy bunnyhopping all over the place in CQC, you can pretty much just hipfire in the general direction of his torso and the majority of your bullets will connect somewhere on his body for damage. I do this to people all the time, usually killing them with my last few bullets while they're trying to reload.

The problem with this strategy is that it assumes that your opponent is not using a mouse, in which case he's going to be able to draw a bead on you even while jumping like a crazy idiot. Also, it becomes less and less viable as you skill up the SMG, as that reduces the kick and increases the accuracy.

To really get kills with the SMG, you need to upgrade the hell out of it, along with sidearm sharpshooter. You still have to get into medium to close range, and you'll never compete with the sheer damage of an AR, but the bigger clip and faster reloading time means you will almost always win in a reloading fight.

I'd also recommend avoiding HMG heavies altogether. Even if you get the drop on them, they'll probably have just enough time to smear you into paste before their armor gives out. (If I had a quarter for every heavy that's killed me with only a tiny sliver of his health left, dinner would be free tonight.)

1. When you line your crosshairs up on a target and pull the trigger, your shot goes approximately where you aim. The first shot's accuracy is based on the accuracy stat of the weapon. Subsequent shots are affected by kick and the weapons rate of fire.

3. You aren't psychic, and therefore don't know exactly when your opponent is going to move, or which direction they're going to move in.

4. When your crosshairs AREN'T directly over the target, you're relying on the spread of your shots to give you a chance to hit the target.

5. Weapons with a higher rate of fire give you more chances for a shot to hit in the scenario described in point 4.

6. Weapons with a wider spread give you a wider arc in which you still have a chance to hit the target.

7. When a skilled CQC player is moving UNPREDICTABLY, you're not going to be keeping your crosshairs on them even for the 0.1s (or less) it would take to land a bullet on target.

8. Point 7 means that, in extreme close range, you rely almost entirely on your weapon's spread in order to land hits.

9. As a result of the above list, you SHOULD be able to see that SMGs with a wider spread have an advantage in a scenario where you're relying on spread.

your bullets are not heading straite, they are heading everywhere. while your chances for A bullet to hit the target is higher, you also have more of a chance to miss as well, i get that accraccy is pointless when they are in your face. i use hipfire is many games. but the POINT is that it's rubish aganced anything over 5 to 10 meters. that kind of range disavantage is SO severe that. the point is that the range sux, period. You are obviously being to defencive, because you keep ammiting that the range sux but saying that's ok because i can work around it. if you like SMG's a bunch you should see how benifical of having a range increase of SMGs would be awesome. Ecpecaly for logi, sence they are best around teammates who need revives and health. you can't heal and rez if the enemy flanks you and you need to support the team.

Chill, folks. Blacknova is referring to the fact that the un-upgraded SMG is essentially a slow motion shotgun. Unleashing a clip will have a similar spread to a shotgun blast, only with the bullets going out one at a time instead of all at once. If you've got a guy bunnyhopping all over the place in CQC, you can pretty much just hipfire in the general direction of his torso and the majority of your bullets will connect somewhere on his body for damage. I do this to people all the time, usually killing them with my last few bullets while they're trying to reload.

The problem with this strategy is that it assumes that your opponent is not using a mouse, in which case he's going to be able to draw a bead on you even while jumping like a crazy idiot. Also, it becomes less and less viable as you skill up the SMG, as that reduces the kick and increases the accuracy.

To really get kills with the SMG, you need to upgrade the hell out of it, along with sidearm sharpshooter. You still have to get into medium to close range, and you'll never compete with the sheer damage of an AR, but the bigger clip and faster reloading time means you will almost always win in a reloading fight.

I'd also recommend avoiding HMG heavies altogether. Even if you get the drop on them, they'll probably have just enough time to smear you into paste before their armor gives out. (If I had a quarter for every heavy that's killed me with only a tiny sliver of his health left, dinner would be free tonight.)

Mid-range SMG fire kills Shotgunners with minimal (if any) damage in return. Which leads me to....

Unless you're using a Shotgun or coming with friends, you generally don't want to engage HMGs within their effective range. Doesn't matter which non-Shotgun weapon you're using

this is again wrong. shotguns can still kill you in a single "clip" at mid range, additionally some of the shotguns have more range and accuracy. also define mid range.

funny how you discredited yourself that often and still keep posting. very amusing. I guess ignorance is a blessing.

if you aiming would not suck then you could point the SMG at the heavies head when you get the drop on him and kill him in a second. but as you point out yourself you have issues with aiming

I know I said I wouldn't bother replying, but you've actually moved on from your idiocy before. Good job!
Mid-rnge is where most Shotguns stop dealing enough damage to be worth firing. And a Shotgun takes a LOT longer to deal damage than SMGs do at that kind of range, even if it's one with enough range to be capable of hitting a target.

...except that it takes less than half the time for him to kill you with bodyshots.

TRYING to aim in that situation makes you miss MORE against someone who knows how to fight at that range.

I feel like I should be saying that to you. Not so much for the above part of this post, but almost everything else you've said since you first replied to me. Including what comes next...

isnt it a bit low?

nice that you pointed out how you cant aim so you spray against people that can