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JohnDS Wolf
Exit Wound Heavy Industries
10
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Posted - 2013.01.30 04:26:00 -
[1] - Quote
i think it's best to say....why limit the range Period. Three things that can help with the whole "Ranged" problem recoil, spread, bullet drop.
i'm sorry, but, a weapon changes spread as the recoil pushes the gun up/sideways, thus the range of the gun is considered "reduce". a short range automatic weapon has Horrable recoil via fast rate of fire, thus increase it's spread which is great for fast, close up, group confrontations.
oh and sniper rifles are still serpior at range due to it's laser like accraccy, but i still be able to take or suppress a sniper with an AR.
there are way's to decrease the range of a weapon without making the bullets magicly disappear, which can cause the lose of imersion. infact, i don't remember a single FPS where the bullets magicly disappear when the target is out of "Range". |
JohnDS Wolf
Exit Wound Heavy Industries
10
|
Posted - 2013.01.30 06:24:00 -
[2] - Quote
correct, for bullet drop lowers the damage of the bullet once it hits a certain range. thus smg's are still mainly CQ weapon but you don't feel like a derp for using it.
RSB is how you Poperly balance weapons. |
JohnDS Wolf
Exit Wound Heavy Industries
10
|
Posted - 2013.01.30 07:56:00 -
[3] - Quote
RedZer0 MK1 wrote:They are machine pistols, not really smgs. Otherwise, they would be main weapons, and not sidearms.
Dosn't matter, my point is that weapons have a defenate range, and shouldn't. oh and a famous smg called a P90 is used sometimes as a sidearm due to the low weight, small size, high fire rate, and great stoping power at close range. it may not be standard issue in the US but it is know for this role. i don't see why SMG's can't be just as effective. |
JohnDS Wolf
Exit Wound Heavy Industries
10
|
Posted - 2013.01.31 03:11:00 -
[4] - Quote
bump because this IS serious
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JohnDS Wolf
Exit Wound Heavy Industries
10
|
Posted - 2013.01.31 06:10:00 -
[5] - Quote
Zekain Kade wrote:SMG's are awesome. I use a toxin in nearly every fit.
get into a cqc match, and I have run out of ammo? just swap and pop.
what about the lagi? they don't have the sidearm slot. they arn't effective weapons peirod, especaly at lower lvls.
Cinnamon267 wrote: No, it's only low if you have no points in Sharpshooter. Put points into Sharpshooter and see it become a completely different weapon. Very glad I did. Makes all the difference in the world.
they are still useless at lower lvls, which forces the lagi to go into AR. both range and power needs to go up but i think range should be based of the weapon's RSB. IMHO weapon type advantages shouldn't be based of if your bullet can reach them or not, it should be on the size of the bullet. especaly in a FPS. |
JohnDS Wolf
Exit Wound Heavy Industries
10
|
Posted - 2013.01.31 11:27:00 -
[6] - Quote
Baal Omniscient wrote:If you want more range, invest in sharpshooter. That's what it is there for. And AR with no sharpshooter has a pretty weak range for the all range weapon it is supposed to be, but again, that's why we have sharpshooter.
As for bullets stopping after a distance, that's because they ARE NOT BULLETS. Plasma disperses after it can't hold itself together anymore. Think about lightning, which is plasma as well. It travels for as far as it can hold itself together, then ends abruptly with slight remnants of it's energy petering out from the ends into nothingness as the energy disperses. This is how our plasma weapons behave, and how they should behave.
Don't try to bring earth weaponry mechanics into a game that has nothing to do with Earth. This is thousands of years in the future in a completely different galaxy in a totally different corner of the universe. People have been trying to bring Earth mechanics into this game since the beginning of the beta and it hasn't worked, so you're not gonna get it to work now. This game is set in a sci-fi world of CCP's creation, and they thereby set the rules of their universe, not a bunch of newberries and half dots who want their favorite weapon buffed.
*Ahem* Sorry... got a little carried away there at the end...
it's not earth mechanics, it's phsyics, so stop saying "oh it's not earth so phsyics don't apply". secondly, you have to reload the chamber on both the SMG and AR after a reload, so what dose that tell you? i'll give you a hint, there's something being loaded into the chamber. you do NOT need to reload the chamber if you arn't using soild projectiles, you don't need a Barrel if you arn't fireing soild projectiles. everything points to Physical, Soild bullets. the fact that the gun actualy kicks a bit (not enuff to even be consider REAL recoil) means you're fireing something soild. plasma would NOT kick up your gun even a little.
Baal Omniscient wrote:The SMG DOES top the AR on DPM you're not taking into the consideration that AR dose more damage per shot than the SMG. so the smg has A LOT of bullets to make up the damage...so what. the AR dose more in fewer bullets. That's REAL DPS. |
JohnDS Wolf
Exit Wound Heavy Industries
10
|
Posted - 2013.01.31 12:35:00 -
[7] - Quote
Django Quik wrote: You are wrong all over this reply. Read the descriptions of the weapons. The projectiles fired by our weapons are plasma formed into bullet-like shapes using magnetic force. The changing of the clip is the power-pack being depleted that powers the weapons. If you know anything about physics, you would know that everything has an equal and opposite reaction - you couldn't shoot some plasma at extremely high speeds without getting some recoil.
As for your statement about the SMG, yes it does less damage per round but the rate of fire outweighs this quite signifcantly. Without being able to get on right now I couldn't quote the exact figures but it does outpower the AR within the 100% SMG effective range.
kenetic energy is not the same as using magnatic energy.
i'm going to explain how magnatic perpolsion works. (especaly in a vacume)
1. object has a north or positive charge, magnet has a north or positive charge.
2. object has equal mass to magnet, they pushe them selfs away
3. if object has more mass than magnet, magnet get's pushed away
4. if object has less mass than magnet, object get's pushed away.
it starts geting complext now on but to simple it down (asume magnet and object have same mass still.)
5. if object and magnet have equal charge, they push eachother away same speed
6. if object has a higher charge than magnet, magnet get's pushed faster than object.
7. if object has a lower charge than magnet, object get's pushed faster than magnet.
plasma dose not have the same mass, it's basicly super heated air, and i'm sure that the plasma dose not have a greater charge to overcome that mass. there for the recoil should NOT exist period. there for saying that "the gun uses plasma and are no bullets" dose not hold up (i'm sorry devs, it's not).
oh, DPS don't mean squat if you can't hit the target. you out of range, your DPS is zero. that's why range limitation is stupid regardless. Not to mentions these are HUGE maps. having such a handycap on these maps is inexusable. and these maps will only get bigger as they add more players (which IMHO would be awesome but i degress). the point here is not the DPS of the SMG, but the range. and i say range limitation period should go AWAY. |
JohnDS Wolf
Exit Wound Heavy Industries
10
|
Posted - 2013.01.31 14:32:00 -
[8] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Jack McReady wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:The AR loses more damage against an erratic target than the SMG does because of this. this logic is dump, please more of that dump logic because these are "good" arguments trololo. you said yourself AR does more damage (even when you take the basic AR stats, the numbers in are favor for the AR) but for some reason you are assuming you miss more often with AR than SMG without any conclusive reason. and the best is how you claim that lower accuracy is an advantage, if you cant keep your aim on the target, maybe learn to aim? your post is also a good indication that you also have no clue how ROF affects the recoil. weapon kick stat of the weapon determines how much your accuracy is impaired for EACH shot and it stacks with itself up to a cap. higher ROF results in faster stacking of weapon kick. You might want to go back and re-read my post. Particularly the part where I already explained very clearly the exact reasons behind WHY there's a benefit to lower accuracy in CQC. And kick is a part of the CQC advantage for the SMG, because it helps to further reduce accuracy, thus ensure a better chance of hitting a target that isn't moving predictably. Or are you claiming to be a high-grade psychic capable of reading the minds of other players in far corners of the world with nothing more than their in-game name to work from? Good luck with that.
missing drops your dps, missing also lower your chances for killing. you are eather right in their face (or back) fireing from the hilt or the luckiest man alive with each bullet hiting the target. Spread is great for groups but sence it takes so much to kill one dude with SMG's, yah, you're idea has a major flaw. It's just not a reliable weapon at any range, sence most weapons can not only kill faster, but can kill groups easyer. |
JohnDS Wolf
Exit Wound Heavy Industries
10
|
Posted - 2013.01.31 15:02:00 -
[9] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:JohnDS Wolf wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Jack McReady wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:The AR loses more damage against an erratic target than the SMG does because of this. this logic is dump, please more of that dump logic because these are "good" arguments trololo. you said yourself AR does more damage (even when you take the basic AR stats, the numbers in are favor for the AR) but for some reason you are assuming you miss more often with AR than SMG without any conclusive reason. and the best is how you claim that lower accuracy is an advantage, if you cant keep your aim on the target, maybe learn to aim? your post is also a good indication that you also have no clue how ROF affects the recoil. weapon kick stat of the weapon determines how much your accuracy is impaired for EACH shot and it stacks with itself up to a cap. higher ROF results in faster stacking of weapon kick. You might want to go back and re-read my post. Particularly the part where I already explained very clearly the exact reasons behind WHY there's a benefit to lower accuracy in CQC. And kick is a part of the CQC advantage for the SMG, because it helps to further reduce accuracy, thus ensure a better chance of hitting a target that isn't moving predictably. Or are you claiming to be a high-grade psychic capable of reading the minds of other players in far corners of the world with nothing more than their in-game name to work from? Good luck with that. missing drops your dps, missing also lower your chances for killing. you are eather right in their face (or back) fireing from the hilt or the luckiest man alive with each bullet hiting the target. Spread is great for groups but sence it takes so much to kill one dude with SMG's, yah, you're idea has a major flaw. It's just not a reliable weapon at any range, sence most weapons can not only kill faster, but can kill groups easyer. Congratulations on continuing to miss the point. At close range, the AR, even when you spray with it, has a relatively tight grouping. You hit pretty consistently within the crosshairs, even without training up your skill to improve accuracy. You HAVE to be aimed pretty much dead on or your shots are GUARANTEED to miss. ALL of them. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE. That means, with an erratic target, moving unpredictably, and not standing still or following a path where you can track them easily (have I thrown the same idea at you with enough different words that you get my point yet?), you potentially have as few as 0% of your shots hitting. As you said yourself, it doesn't matter what number you multiply by 0, you still deal no damage. Maybe, if you're lucky, REALLY good or the target screws up, you can get as high as 10% of your shots hitting with the AR against someone competent in CQC. MAYBE. When my SMG's shots are spreading wide, I don't need to be precise with my aim. I just need to ensure that I keep my crosshairs NEAR the target and I have decent odds on my shots hitting. It's not going to even be 50%, but it's still a LOT better than you're getting with your AR. I'm going to be consistently getting 30% of my shots hitting a target, AT LEAST. Probably more if I'm good at reading their movements. It's still not going to be nearly the 100% you'd need for those earlier damage calculations to apply accurately, and it will be rare to see better than 50% hit accuracy against someone who knows how to handle themselves in close quarters, but that low end of 30% means I'm dealing almost triple the best damage stats you'll see with your AR.
your bullets are not heading straite, they are heading everywhere. while your chances for A bullet to hit the target is higher, you also have more of a chance to miss as well, i get that accraccy is pointless when they are in your face. i use hipfire is many games. but the POINT is that it's rubish aganced anything over 5 to 10 meters. that kind of range disavantage is SO severe that. the point is that the range sux, period. You are obviously being to defencive, because you keep ammiting that the range sux but saying that's ok because i can work around it. if you like SMG's a bunch you should see how benifical of having a range increase of SMGs would be awesome. Ecpecaly for logi, sence they are best around teammates who need revives and health. you can't heal and rez if the enemy flanks you and you need to support the team. |
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