DUST Search - SMG range

JohnDS Wolf wrote:

Baal Omniscient wrote:

If you want more range, invest in sharpshooter. That's what it is there for. And AR with no sharpshooter has a pretty weak range for the all range weapon it is supposed to be, but again, that's why we have sharpshooter.

As for bullets stopping after a distance, that's because they ARE NOT BULLETS. Plasma disperses after it can't hold itself together anymore. Think about lightning, which is plasma as well. It travels for as far as it can hold itself together, then ends abruptly with slight remnants of it's energy petering out from the ends into nothingness as the energy disperses. This is how our plasma weapons behave, and how they should behave.

Don't try to bring earth weaponry mechanics into a game that has nothing to do with Earth. This is thousands of years in the future in a completely different galaxy in a totally different corner of the universe. People have been trying to bring Earth mechanics into this game since the beginning of the beta and it hasn't worked, so you're not gonna get it to work now. This game is set in a sci-fi world of CCP's creation, and they thereby set the rules of their universe, not a bunch of newberries and half dots who want their favorite weapon buffed.

*Ahem* Sorry... got a little carried away there at the end...

it's not earth mechanics, it's phsyics, so stop saying "oh it's not earth so phsyics don't apply". secondly, you have to reload the chamber on both the SMG and AR after a reload, so what dose that tell you? i'll give you a hint, there's something being loaded into the chamber. you do NOT need to reload the chamber if you arn't using soild projectiles, you don't need a Barrel if you arn't fireing soild projectiles. everything points to Physical, Soild bullets. the fact that the gun actualy kicks a bit (not enuff to even be consider REAL recoil) means you're fireing something soild. plasma would NOT kick up your gun even a little.

Baal Omniscient wrote:

The SMG DOES top the AR on DPM

you're not taking into the consideration that AR dose more damage per shot than the SMG. so the smg has A LOT of bullets to make up the damage...so what. the AR dose more in fewer bullets. That's REAL DPS.


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Django Quik R.I.f.t 220	Posted - 2013.01.30 10:42:00 - [1] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: also close quarter weapon argument does not hold. shotgun is a close range weapon but it outdamages the SMG outside close range. pistol is also a close quarter personal defense weapon, yet the breach scrambler pistol can be used as a battle rifle. a headshot from this little thing can oneshot the majority of suits. the breach SMG on the other hand is far behind, recoil makes shooting outside close range annoying and the breach SMG loses over 100 dps over the regular SMG. The SMG is an awesome close quarters SIDEARM - the shotgun is a primary weapon, so is not comparable. The pistol is a single shot close to mid range sidearm with small clips and low total ammo - the SMG has huge clips and will easily take down a heavy if the heavy has to turn to shoot you. The pistol is really difficult to hit with especially if your enemy is dodging around well. With the SMG you can just spray in the area and you'll take him down pretty quick. I run an assault 1 suit with pistol primary and SMG secondary and I love it. With the extra CPU and PG I can put 2 shield extenders as well as an armor plate and armor repair module with grenades and nanohives. My advice is get yourself up the first couple of levels of sidearm sharpshooter - it really does wonders.
Django Quik R.I.f.t 220	Posted - 2013.01.30 15:13:00 - [2] - Quote You should not assume you know anything about another player from what you have read. I have no aiming issues - what I stated was that if someone is dodging all over the place, you can still take him down with a high ROF weapon like the SMG. You can not compare a sidearm to a primary weapon, plain and simple. If you could, why not just compare the SMG to an AR or even an HMG? That would be ridiculous. A shotgun fires single shot blasts of multiple pellets with an aim of close quarters combat. In no way should a SMG outpower a shotgun within a shotgun's range. The max clip size of a pistol is 12 and that's with proto level. Even with all levels of sidearm ammo capacity, you still get only 5 clips worth of ammo. With the SMG you get 80 rounds in each clip and hundreds of rounds of extra ammo - that is an absolutely massive difference. Granted any pistol can one shot most opponents if you get a headshot because they have that headshot bonus but non-headshots it takes at least an entire clip on better armoured enemies and is extremely difficult if the target knows how to dodge effectively. I don't know how you're using the SMG but I often take people out at much much further than melee range with hip fire. Maybe you should try the assault SMG - it's far more effective than the standard or toxin variants.
Django Quik R.I.f.t 220	Posted - 2013.01.30 16:28:00 - [3] - Quote Sur Deimos wrote: i strongly agree either boost the range or atleast make the bullets hit with a reduced damage i dont see why my bullets will dissapear after a certain distance, it would be more fun and logical that they do less damage at the distance in wich they are currently iniffective There already is a diminishing damage mechanic - when you're aiming at someone or something it shows a % and that is the effectiveness of the shot at that range. At 100% you're firing within the weapon's optimal range and at 0% the shots do no damage at all and everything inbetween. Now I agree that there shouldn't really be a range at which shots do 0 damage but not sure how they could represent ineffective range otherwise - maybe the could make shots head off target at 0% instead of just disappearing like they do now.
Django Quik R.I.f.t 220	Posted - 2013.01.31 10:21:00 - [4] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Anything from maimum Shotgun range down to point-blank, SMGs will outperform ARs. At the high end of Shotgun range, they beat Shotguns (if you use aimed fire). I've tested this with Toxin vs. Advanced Shotguns and ARs, Weaponry 4 and SMG Ops at 2 on my character. Don't know exact skill stats on the opponents, but they can't possibly have as low Operations for their weapons as I do. SMG outperform AR YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST! seriously the content of your post is imaginary at its finest SMGs can never outperform the AR at any range because the AR deals more damage/DPS. SMGs vs. shotgun, depends on the shotgun, some of them are pretty accurate with good range, so they will still outdamage the SMG. I don't know where you get your stats from McReady because their ridiculous SMG rate of fire means that if you're within the 100% effective range, they do outperform the AR, especially the assault SMG. Plus your AR clip will run out far before your SMG. Not so sure about them beating shotguns though. Would have to be right at the top of the effective range.
Django Quik R.I.f.t 220	Posted - 2013.01.31 11:40:00 - [5] - Quote JohnDS Wolf wrote: Baal Omniscient wrote: If you want more range, invest in sharpshooter. That's what it is there for. And AR with no sharpshooter has a pretty weak range for the all range weapon it is supposed to be, but again, that's why we have sharpshooter. As for bullets stopping after a distance, that's because they ARE NOT BULLETS. Plasma disperses after it can't hold itself together anymore. Think about lightning, which is plasma as well. It travels for as far as it can hold itself together, then ends abruptly with slight remnants of it's energy petering out from the ends into nothingness as the energy disperses. This is how our plasma weapons behave, and how they should behave. Don't try to bring earth weaponry mechanics into a game that has nothing to do with Earth. This is thousands of years in the future in a completely different galaxy in a totally different corner of the universe. People have been trying to bring Earth mechanics into this game since the beginning of the beta and it hasn't worked, so you're not gonna get it to work now. This game is set in a sci-fi world of CCP's creation, and they thereby set the rules of their universe, not a bunch of newberries and half dots who want their favorite weapon buffed. Ahem Sorry... got a little carried away there at the end... it's not earth mechanics, it's phsyics, so stop saying "oh it's not earth so phsyics don't apply". secondly, you have to reload the chamber on both the SMG and AR after a reload, so what dose that tell you? i'll give you a hint, there's something being loaded into the chamber. you do NOT need to reload the chamber if you arn't using soild projectiles, you don't need a Barrel if you arn't fireing soild projectiles. everything points to Physical, Soild bullets. the fact that the gun actualy kicks a bit (not enuff to even be consider REAL recoil) means you're fireing something soild. plasma would NOT kick up your gun even a little. Baal Omniscient wrote: The SMG DOES top the AR on DPM you're not taking into the consideration that AR dose more damage per shot than the SMG. so the smg has A LOT of bullets to make up the damage...so what. the AR dose more in fewer bullets. That's REAL DPS. You are wrong all over this reply. Read the descriptions of the weapons. The projectiles fired by our weapons are plasma formed into bullet-like shapes using magnetic force. The changing of the clip is the power-pack being depleted that powers the weapons. If you know anything about physics, you would know that everything has an equal and opposite reaction - you couldn't shoot some plasma at extremely high speeds without getting some recoil. As for your statement about the SMG, yes it does less damage per round but the rate of fire outweighs this quite signifcantly. Without being able to get on right now I couldn't quote the exact figures but it does outpower the AR within the 100% SMG effective range.
Django Quik R.I.f.t 220	Posted - 2013.01.31 21:25:00 - [6] - Quote I think this whole thread has gotten a little overheated and somewhat off-topic. The point that was made in the OP is that the SMG needs more range. What needs to be said is that the SMG is fine because it is a sidearm - I return to my far earlier point that you can not compare a sidearm to a primary weapon. The reason why is that SMGs take up a whole load less CPU and PG, allowing players to add on better extra modules, even complex damage mods if you want. That is why it's the standard weapon for a logibro - they need all the CPU and PG they can get for the extra equipment. Besides, if you're going to give the SMG more range, it just becomes a new version of the AR.