DUST Search - SMG range

Django Quik wrote:

Jack McReady wrote:

also close quarter weapon argument does not hold. shotgun is a close range weapon but it outdamages the SMG outside close range. pistol is also a close quarter personal defense weapon, yet the breach scrambler pistol can be used as a battle rifle. a headshot from this little thing can oneshot the majority of suits. the breach SMG on the other hand is far behind, recoil makes shooting outside close range annoying and the breach SMG loses over 100 dps over the regular SMG.

The SMG is an awesome close quarters SIDEARM - the shotgun is a primary weapon, so is not comparable.

The pistol is a single shot close to mid range sidearm with small clips and low total ammo - the SMG has huge clips and will easily take down a heavy if the heavy has to turn to shoot you. The pistol is really difficult to hit with especially if your enemy is dodging around well. With the SMG you can just spray in the area and you'll take him down pretty quick.

I run an assault 1 suit with pistol primary and SMG secondary and I love it. With the extra CPU and PG I can put 2 shield extenders as well as an armor plate and armor repair module with grenades and nanohives.

My advice is get yourself up the first couple of levels of sidearm sharpshooter - it really does wonders.

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Jack McReady A.C.M.E Corp 71	Posted - 2013.01.29 23:06:00 - [1] - Quote isnt it a bit low? sure it is a sidearm but the scrambler pistols range is boss compared to it. I even experienced that some shotguns outdamage SMGs at medium range. it does not have the stopping power of a scrambler pistol and also not the damage and range of AR, dont you think that the range could use a small buff, considering that the logi is supposed to use it as starting weapon?
Thranx1231 CowTek 90	Posted - 2013.01.29 23:13:00 - [2] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: isnt it a bit low? It is a close quarters weapon. I thought I would point that out. And shooting from the hip is not ... optimal. Also, got Nerfed. Prey we don't Nerf it again. Logi Bros can use any Light Weapon or Sidearm in that slot. The close quarters choice is to keep them alive while they get rushed trying to do their Logi Bro thing. But use whatever floats your boat. ARs, Shotty, Scrambler, SMG or just dope slapping them Reds. through breath mask.
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 1062	Posted - 2013.01.30 00:24:00 - [3] - Quote I agree- shooting someone at scrambler pistol range is a joke.
Tarquin Markel The Synenose Accord Celestial Imperative 85	Posted - 2013.01.30 00:34:00 - [4] - Quote sigh If an SMG at scrambler range is a joke, and you end up at that range often, perhaps you should consider using a scrambler? The SMG is almost (that's almost) as much a close-range weapon as the shotgun.
Breakin Stuff Immobile Infantry 680	Posted - 2013.01.30 01:54:00 - [5] - Quote Tarquin Markel wrote: sigh If an SMG at scrambler range is a joke, and you end up at that range often, perhaps you should consider using a scrambler? The SMG is almost (that's almost) as much a close-range weapon as the shotgun. but is awesome as an armor sandblaster.
Ten-Sidhe Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 414	Posted - 2013.01.30 02:14:00 - [6] - Quote energy weapons are longer range then projectile. Smg seems fine to me. If you have a lot of points in sidearm sharpshooter it has decent range. Scrambler has more, but is not as good up close.
DeathStalker Synchro D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION 24	Posted - 2013.01.30 02:21:00 - [7] - Quote Yeah, I hope they get a tad bit more range. I love SMGs in modern day shooter, mostly German SMGs; MP5, UMP, ect.. But these don't feel like SMGs more like fully automatic pistols....or well...sidearms. I guess they accomplish they goal of having a fully automatic sidearms. But it doesn't seem like there are any SMGs in this game. I'm not looking for a UMP or MP5 in a sci-fi shooter placed hundreds of years in the future. Although, I wish they add enough range to be considered lethal. Though, I can see this becoming a problem if they gave them a range boost. With perhaps a Assault soldier depleting his/her AR clip only to shift to a nearly equally lethal SMG.
xprotoman23 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 1452	Posted - 2013.01.30 02:52:00 - [8] - Quote SMG's used to be able to go toe-to-toe with the creodron but CCP nerfed that
mollerz s1ck3r Corp 73	Posted - 2013.01.30 02:54:00 - [9] - Quote I run a dragonfly with dual toxin subs. It is all about having two subs because it's faster to switch than to reload. and I go toe to toe with assaults all the time. You need to get close! + Use obstacles to put cover in between you and your target. Hills, shipping crates, wall, even a railing. Use time behind cover to reload one sub, switch to a fully loaded sub, maybe reload both subs. It depends on the amount of time you can buy. + ABM. Always Be Moving!! ABM! ABM! + Be conscious of his shields. The more you hide, the more his shields have time to bounce back. Keep the pressure high. + Hip fire mostly and run around him. Only aim fire when he's reloading and move in a strait line at him. This will be a few seconds of concentrated fire while he is defenseless (usually). + Timing is EVERYTHING. More often than not, you can bait someone into shooting at you. If you can get them to blast at least a half a mag at you as you duck behind cover, then you probably have the guy- especially if he's solo. Then you rush him, blasting through your sub.. but don't reload when you get low- hit the swap weapon key and continue ripping into him in one smooth motion. It doesn't matter if the first sub had a few more rounds in it. It's better because you won't accidentally reload- which can kill you in a CQC. And remember ABM! + Also, if someone is chasing you- zig zag leap, etc.. but once the firing stops, whip around and charge at him. He'll be stuck reloading, and even if he swaps, most times you will have him flustered enough to keep him off target. As long as you are on target, and he isn't you are going to do more damage. + If you find yourself in a group of enemies, and it happens! Just keep running and spray as you go past. + And finally, if you blow through both subs fall back on a few melee strikes. I have to take heavies out this way because two toxins most times won't kill them all the way :) Never underestimate the melee! Happy hunting! PS- IF you can shoot someone in the back- do it in the back of the head- they go down extremely fast... 1k RPM!
JohnDS Wolf Exit Wound Heavy Industries 10	Posted - 2013.01.30 04:26:00 - [10] - Quote i think it's best to say....why limit the range Period. Three things that can help with the whole "Ranged" problem recoil, spread, bullet drop. i'm sorry, but, a weapon changes spread as the recoil pushes the gun up/sideways, thus the range of the gun is considered "reduce". a short range automatic weapon has Horrable recoil via fast rate of fire, thus increase it's spread which is great for fast, close up, group confrontations. oh and sniper rifles are still serpior at range due to it's laser like accraccy, but i still be able to take or suppress a sniper with an AR. there are way's to decrease the range of a weapon without making the bullets magicly disappear, which can cause the lose of imersion. infact, i don't remember a single FPS where the bullets magicly disappear when the target is out of "Range".

Patoman Radiant ZionTCD Legacy Rising 53	Posted - 2013.01.30 04:57:00 - [11] - Quote you are also firing it as a burst, the bullets may fly far but that doesn't realy help its effective range
JohnDS Wolf Exit Wound Heavy Industries 10	Posted - 2013.01.30 06:24:00 - [12] - Quote correct, for bullet drop lowers the damage of the bullet once it hits a certain range. thus smg's are still mainly CQ weapon but you don't feel like a derp for using it. RSB is how you Poperly balance weapons.
RedZer0 MK1 Opus Arcana Orion Empire 1	Posted - 2013.01.30 07:24:00 - [13] - Quote They are machine pistols, not really smgs. Otherwise, they would be main weapons, and not sidearms.
JohnDS Wolf Exit Wound Heavy Industries 10	Posted - 2013.01.30 07:56:00 - [14] - Quote RedZer0 MK1 wrote: They are machine pistols, not really smgs. Otherwise, they would be main weapons, and not sidearms. Dosn't matter, my point is that weapons have a defenate range, and shouldn't. oh and a famous smg called a P90 is used sometimes as a sidearm due to the low weight, small size, high fire rate, and great stoping power at close range. it may not be standard issue in the US but it is know for this role. i don't see why SMG's can't be just as effective.
Jack McReady A.C.M.E Corp 71	Posted - 2013.01.30 09:08:00 - [15] - Quote RedZer0 MK1 wrote: They are machine pistols, not really smgs. Otherwise, they would be main weapons, and not sidearms. the weapon is too large to actually be a "proper" machine pistol, the definition of a real machine pistol is that it is built out of a small semi automatic pistol. anyway, modern small calibers are very well known to be able to reach the effective stopping power and range of rifle calibers, but for some reason the future evolved backwards I know that real life comparision have no place in a game but I just wanted to point this out. Thranx1231 wrote: Jack McReady wrote: isnt it a bit low? It is a close quarters weapon. I thought I would point that out. And shooting from the hip is not ... optimal. Also, got Nerfed. Prey we don't Nerf it again. Logi Bros can use any Light Weapon or Sidearm in that slot. The close quarters choice is to keep them alive while they get rushed trying to do their Logi Bro thing. But use whatever floats your boat. ARs, Shotty, Scrambler, SMG or just dope slapping them Reds. through breath mask. starting with logi background gives you SMG skills, it obviously was the intention that logistic use it as a weapon to save PG and CPU for demanding modules. why give them those skills then, just give them higher weaponry skill cause SMG puts you at a disadvantage and let them select the weapon by themself. a scout suit can overcome the disadvantage of an SMG by being fast, but a logi suits cannot. if we take a look at the SMG stats we can see that it has all the disadvantages of a SMG but no real advantage beside a minor saving in PG and CPU. also close quarter weapon argument does not hold. shotgun is a close range weapon but it outdamages the SMG outside close range. pistol is also a close quarter personal defense weapon, yet the breach scrambler pistol can be used as a battle rifle. a headshot from this little thing can oneshot the majority of suits. the breach SMG on the other hand is far behind, recoil makes shooting outside close range annoying and the breach SMG loses over 100 dps over the regular SMG.
Django Quik R.I.f.t 220	Posted - 2013.01.30 10:42:00 - [16] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: also close quarter weapon argument does not hold. shotgun is a close range weapon but it outdamages the SMG outside close range. pistol is also a close quarter personal defense weapon, yet the breach scrambler pistol can be used as a battle rifle. a headshot from this little thing can oneshot the majority of suits. the breach SMG on the other hand is far behind, recoil makes shooting outside close range annoying and the breach SMG loses over 100 dps over the regular SMG. The SMG is an awesome close quarters SIDEARM - the shotgun is a primary weapon, so is not comparable. The pistol is a single shot close to mid range sidearm with small clips and low total ammo - the SMG has huge clips and will easily take down a heavy if the heavy has to turn to shoot you. The pistol is really difficult to hit with especially if your enemy is dodging around well. With the SMG you can just spray in the area and you'll take him down pretty quick. I run an assault 1 suit with pistol primary and SMG secondary and I love it. With the extra CPU and PG I can put 2 shield extenders as well as an armor plate and armor repair module with grenades and nanohives. My advice is get yourself up the first couple of levels of sidearm sharpshooter - it really does wonders.
Jack McReady A.C.M.E Corp 71	Posted - 2013.01.30 12:39:00 - [17] - Quote Django Quik wrote: Jack McReady wrote: also close quarter weapon argument does not hold. shotgun is a close range weapon but it outdamages the SMG outside close range. pistol is also a close quarter personal defense weapon, yet the breach scrambler pistol can be used as a battle rifle. a headshot from this little thing can oneshot the majority of suits. the breach SMG on the other hand is far behind, recoil makes shooting outside close range annoying and the breach SMG loses over 100 dps over the regular SMG. The SMG is an awesome close quarters SIDEARM - the shotgun is a primary weapon, so is not comparable. The pistol is a single shot close to mid range sidearm with small clips and low total ammo - the SMG has huge clips and will easily take down a heavy if the heavy has to turn to shoot you. The pistol is really difficult to hit with especially if your enemy is dodging around well. With the SMG you can just spray in the area and you'll take him down pretty quick. I run an assault 1 suit with pistol primary and SMG secondary and I love it. With the extra CPU and PG I can put 2 shield extenders as well as an armor plate and armor repair module with grenades and nanohives. My advice is get yourself up the first couple of levels of sidearm sharpshooter - it really does wonders. first, shotgun is very well comparable, it does not really matter that it isnt a sidearm, what matters is the role, fittings and that everyone can use it. shotgun is already superior at close range which is fine but it should not outdamage the SMG at the SMGs highest effective range. second, the ammo count of the pistol is not that low and can be increased with skills, additionally it can one shot people, it does not need huge amounts of ammo. third, spray and prey with SMG? this shows how little you actually know about the weapon. SMG hip fire range is almost melee otherwise good luck bringing down the target in reasonable amount of time. fourth, I have sidearm sharpshooter skill. sorry but your post indicates that you have aiming issues and how little you know about the capabilities of some of the shotguns and pistols. Spray and prey being better because you are not able to hit well is not an argument.
Django Quik R.I.f.t 220	Posted - 2013.01.30 15:13:00 - [18] - Quote You should not assume you know anything about another player from what you have read. I have no aiming issues - what I stated was that if someone is dodging all over the place, you can still take him down with a high ROF weapon like the SMG. You can not compare a sidearm to a primary weapon, plain and simple. If you could, why not just compare the SMG to an AR or even an HMG? That would be ridiculous. A shotgun fires single shot blasts of multiple pellets with an aim of close quarters combat. In no way should a SMG outpower a shotgun within a shotgun's range. The max clip size of a pistol is 12 and that's with proto level. Even with all levels of sidearm ammo capacity, you still get only 5 clips worth of ammo. With the SMG you get 80 rounds in each clip and hundreds of rounds of extra ammo - that is an absolutely massive difference. Granted any pistol can one shot most opponents if you get a headshot because they have that headshot bonus but non-headshots it takes at least an entire clip on better armoured enemies and is extremely difficult if the target knows how to dodge effectively. I don't know how you're using the SMG but I often take people out at much much further than melee range with hip fire. Maybe you should try the assault SMG - it's far more effective than the standard or toxin variants.
Knarf Black Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 397	Posted - 2013.01.30 15:36:00 - [19] - Quote I'm currently up to level 1 in Sidearm Sharpshooter Proficiency. That puts the assault SMG on par wtih an un-buffed AR for range. I'm still never going to win at long range engagements, but it no longer feels hobbled as a primary weapon. Plus, since it applies to the pistol as well, I can plink away at longer ranges. (If they ever add the option to put a reflex sight on scramblers, watch out.) Remember to use the SMG's sight, if you're not sure of the range: If the dot turns red, you can make the red dot dead. If the dot stays blue, his bullets are likely coming for you.
Sur Deimos Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2013.01.30 15:58:00 - [20] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: isnt it a bit low? sure it is a sidearm but the scrambler pistols range is boss compared to it. I even experienced that some shotguns outdamage SMGs at medium range. it does not have the stopping power of a scrambler pistol and also not the damage and range of AR, dont you think that the range could use a small buff, considering that the logi is supposed to use it as starting weapon? i strongly agree either boost the range or atleast make the bullets hit with a reduced damage i dont see why my bullets will dissapear after a certain distance, it would be more fun and logical that they do less damage at the distance in wich they are currently iniffective

Django Quik R.I.f.t 220	Posted - 2013.01.30 16:28:00 - [21] - Quote Sur Deimos wrote: i strongly agree either boost the range or atleast make the bullets hit with a reduced damage i dont see why my bullets will dissapear after a certain distance, it would be more fun and logical that they do less damage at the distance in wich they are currently iniffective There already is a diminishing damage mechanic - when you're aiming at someone or something it shows a % and that is the effectiveness of the shot at that range. At 100% you're firing within the weapon's optimal range and at 0% the shots do no damage at all and everything inbetween. Now I agree that there shouldn't really be a range at which shots do 0 damage but not sure how they could represent ineffective range otherwise - maybe the could make shots head off target at 0% instead of just disappearing like they do now.
JohnDS Wolf Exit Wound Heavy Industries 10	Posted - 2013.01.31 03:11:00 - [22] - Quote bump because this IS serious
Zekain Kade BetaMax. 931	Posted - 2013.01.31 03:28:00 - [23] - Quote SMG's are awesome. I use a toxin in nearly every fit. get into a cqc match, and I have run out of ammo? just swap and pop.
Cinnamon267 The Southern Legion 30	Posted - 2013.01.31 03:59:00 - [24] - Quote No, it's only low if you have no points in Sharpshooter. Put points into Sharpshooter and see it become a completely different weapon. Very glad I did. Makes all the difference in the world.
JohnDS Wolf Exit Wound Heavy Industries 10	Posted - 2013.01.31 06:10:00 - [25] - Quote Zekain Kade wrote: SMG's are awesome. I use a toxin in nearly every fit. get into a cqc match, and I have run out of ammo? just swap and pop. what about the lagi? they don't have the sidearm slot. they arn't effective weapons peirod, especaly at lower lvls. Cinnamon267 wrote: No, it's only low if you have no points in Sharpshooter. Put points into Sharpshooter and see it become a completely different weapon. Very glad I did. Makes all the difference in the world. they are still useless at lower lvls, which forces the lagi to go into AR. both range and power needs to go up but i think range should be based of the weapon's RSB. IMHO weapon type advantages shouldn't be based of if your bullet can reach them or not, it should be on the size of the bullet. especaly in a FPS.
Cinnamon267 The Southern Legion 30	Posted - 2013.01.31 08:41:00 - [26] - Quote JohnDS Wolf wrote: Zekain Kade wrote: SMG's are awesome. I use a toxin in nearly every fit. get into a cqc match, and I have run out of ammo? just swap and pop. what about the lagi? they don't have the sidearm slot. they arn't effective weapons peirod, especaly at lower lvls. Cinnamon267 wrote: No, it's only low if you have no points in Sharpshooter. Put points into Sharpshooter and see it become a completely different weapon. Very glad I did. Makes all the difference in the world. they are still useless at lower lvls, which forces the lagi to go into AR. both range and power needs to go up but i think range should be based of the weapon's RSB. IMHO weapon type advantages shouldn't be based of if your bullet can reach them or not, it should be on the size of the bullet. especaly in a FPS. Calling it useless is an exaggeration. I've been using one as a secondary since the Codex build and it is far from useless. It's only useless if you're using it as an AR. Which, obviously, won't work.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2013.01.31 08:51:00 - [27] - Quote Anything from maimum Shotgun range down to point-blank, SMGs will outperform ARs. At the high end of Shotgun range, they beat Shotguns (if you use aimed fire). I've tested this with Toxin vs. Advanced Shotguns and ARs, Weaponry 4 and SMG Ops at 2 on my character. Don't know exact skill stats on the opponents, but they can't possibly have as low Operations for their weapons as I do.
Jack McReady A.C.M.E Corp 71	Posted - 2013.01.31 09:20:00 - [28] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Anything from maimum Shotgun range down to point-blank, SMGs will outperform ARs. At the high end of Shotgun range, they beat Shotguns (if you use aimed fire). I've tested this with Toxin vs. Advanced Shotguns and ARs, Weaponry 4 and SMG Ops at 2 on my character. Don't know exact skill stats on the opponents, but they can't possibly have as low Operations for their weapons as I do. SMG outperform AR YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST! seriously the content of your post is imaginary at its finest SMGs can never outperform the AR at any range because the AR deals more damage/DPS. SMGs vs. shotgun, depends on the shotgun, some of them are pretty accurate with good range, so they will still outdamage the SMG.
Django Quik R.I.f.t 220	Posted - 2013.01.31 10:21:00 - [29] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Anything from maimum Shotgun range down to point-blank, SMGs will outperform ARs. At the high end of Shotgun range, they beat Shotguns (if you use aimed fire). I've tested this with Toxin vs. Advanced Shotguns and ARs, Weaponry 4 and SMG Ops at 2 on my character. Don't know exact skill stats on the opponents, but they can't possibly have as low Operations for their weapons as I do. SMG outperform AR YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST! seriously the content of your post is imaginary at its finest SMGs can never outperform the AR at any range because the AR deals more damage/DPS. SMGs vs. shotgun, depends on the shotgun, some of them are pretty accurate with good range, so they will still outdamage the SMG. I don't know where you get your stats from McReady because their ridiculous SMG rate of fire means that if you're within the 100% effective range, they do outperform the AR, especially the assault SMG. Plus your AR clip will run out far before your SMG. Not so sure about them beating shotguns though. Would have to be right at the top of the effective range.
Jack McReady A.C.M.E Corp 71	Posted - 2013.01.31 10:44:00 - [30] - Quote Django Quik wrote: Jack McReady wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Anything from maimum Shotgun range down to point-blank, SMGs will outperform ARs. At the high end of Shotgun range, they beat Shotguns (if you use aimed fire). I've tested this with Toxin vs. Advanced Shotguns and ARs, Weaponry 4 and SMG Ops at 2 on my character. Don't know exact skill stats on the opponents, but they can't possibly have as low Operations for their weapons as I do. SMG outperform AR YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST! seriously the content of your post is imaginary at its finest SMGs can never outperform the AR at any range because the AR deals more damage/DPS. SMGs vs. shotgun, depends on the shotgun, some of them are pretty accurate with good range, so they will still outdamage the SMG. I don't know where you get your stats from McReady because their ridiculous SMG rate of fire means that if you're within the 100% effective range, they do outperform the AR, especially the assault SMG. Plus your AR clip will run out far before your SMG. Not so sure about them beating shotguns though. Would have to be right at the top of the effective range. and your point is? if it would have infinite amount of RPM and deal 0 damage, the damage would be still zero unlike you, I dont get thet stats from the imaginary ether, I check them ingame. and the AR deals more DPS than the SMG, deal with it. oh and btw, the total damage per reload is higher on the AR as well.



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