DUST Search - character build time

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Dropsuit Command:
Dropsuit Command (1) Unlocks assault suits at lvl1, scout and logistics at lvl2, heavy at lvl3, and access to specific suit specializations at lvl5. -5% to scan profile per level.
Minmatar Logistics Dropsuit (8) Unlocks access to standard dropsuits at lvl1; advanced at lvl3; prototype at lvl5.

Dropsuit Upgrades:
Endurance (3) Unlocks ability to use cardiac stimulant modules to increase stamina. +5% stamina per level.
Mobility (3) Unlocks ability to use kinectic catalyzer modules to increase sprinting speed.
Vigor (3) Unlocks ability to use cardiac regulator modules to increase max stamina and stamina recovery rate. +5% max stamina and stamina recovery rate per level.

Electronics:
Circuitry (1) Unlocks ability to use drop uplinks end electronics modules. +5% bonus to dropsuit and vehicle cpu output per level.
CPU Upgrades (2) Unlocks ability to use cpu upgrade modules.
Long Range Scanning (2) Unlocks ability to use range amplifier modules. +5% bonus to dropsuit scan radius per level.
Nanocircuitry (2) Unlocks access to nanohives and nanite injectors. 5% reduction to cpu usage of modules that require the nanocircuitry skill per level.
Profile Dampening (2) Unlocks the ability to use profile dampener modules. -5% dropsuit scan profile per level.
Sensor Upgrades (2) 5% reduction to cpu usage of scanning and sensors.
Drop Uplink Deployment (3) Unlocks access to standard drop uplinks at lvl1; advanced at lvl3; prototype at lvl5.
Profile Analysis (3) Unlocks ability to use precision enhancer modules. -5% dropsuit scan precision per level.
Systems Hacking (4) Unlocks ability to use codebreaker modules. +5% bonus to hacking speed per level.

Engineering:
Combat Engineering (1) +5% to dropsuit and vehicle maximum powergrid output per level.
Powergrid Upgrades (2) Unlocks ability to use powergrid modules. 5% reduction to cpu usage of modules that require the powergrid upgrade skill per level.
Shield boost systems (2) Unlocks ability to use shield booster modules. +3% to dropsuit and vehicle shield recharge rate per level.
Shield Enhancements (2) Unlocks ability to use the upper-tier shield enhancers. 3% reduction to cpu usage of shield enhancer modules per level.
Shield Control (3) +5% to dropsuit and vehicle maximum shield.
Shield Transportation (3) Unlocks ability to use remote shield transporter modules.
Shield Adaptation (5) Unlocks ability to use shield resistance amplifier modules. 3% reduction to spu usage of shield resistance amplifier modules per level.

Mechanics:
Field Mechanics (1) Unlocks ability to use armor modules. +5% to dropsuit and vehicle maximum armor.
Armor Repair Systems (2) Unlocks ability to use armor repair modules. +3% armor repair rate per level.
Armor Upgrades (2) Unlocks ability to use upper-tier armor modules. 3% reduction to pg usage of armor upgrade modules per level.
Remote Repair Systems (3) Unlocks ability to use remote repair modules and equipment.
Armor Adaptation (5) Unlocks ability to use armor hardener modules. 3% reduction to cpu usage of armor hardener modules per level.

Demolitions:
Grenadier (4) Unlocks access to standard grenades at lvl1; Advanced at lvl3; Prototype at lvl5.

Handheld Weapons:
Weaponry (1) 2% to handheld damage
Assault Rifle Operation (2) 5% bonus to assault rifle dispersion and kick per level.
Assault Rifle Proficiency (5) +3% assault rifle damage per level.

Handheld Weapon Upgrades:
Light Weapon Capacity (2) +5% light weapons maximum ammunition capacity per level.
Light Weapon Rapid Reload (2) +3% bonus to light weapon reload speed per level.
Light Weapon Sharpshooter (2) +5% light weapon maximum effective range per level.
Light Weapon Upgrade (2) 5% reduction to light weapon cpu usage per level.
Light Weapon Capacity Proficiency (5) +3% light weapon maximum ammunition capacity per level.
Light Weapon Rapid Reload Proficiency (5) 2% bonus to light weapon reload speed per level.
Light Weapon Sharpshooter Proficiency (5) +3% light weapon maximum effective range per level.
Light Weapon Upgrade Proficiency (5) 3% reduction to light weapon cpu usage per level.

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Rustonius Intara Direct Action Caldari State 4	Posted - 2013.01.28 08:33:00 - [1] - Quote Hi all, Trying to wrap my head around some numbers for character builds using numbers from mark shirey skill list and Dust skill point requirements per rank/level (google docs) and this dev post ccp frame: skill point earn rate. Looking at one role (logi): Quote: Dropsuit Command: Dropsuit Command (1) Unlocks assault suits at lvl1, scout and logistics at lvl2, heavy at lvl3, and access to specific suit specializations at lvl5. -5% to scan profile per level. Minmatar Logistics Dropsuit (8) Unlocks access to standard dropsuits at lvl1; advanced at lvl3; prototype at lvl5. Dropsuit Upgrades: Endurance (3) Unlocks ability to use cardiac stimulant modules to increase stamina. +5% stamina per level. Mobility (3) Unlocks ability to use kinectic catalyzer modules to increase sprinting speed. Vigor (3) Unlocks ability to use cardiac regulator modules to increase max stamina and stamina recovery rate. +5% max stamina and stamina recovery rate per level. Electronics: Circuitry (1) Unlocks ability to use drop uplinks end electronics modules. +5% bonus to dropsuit and vehicle cpu output per level. CPU Upgrades (2) Unlocks ability to use cpu upgrade modules. Long Range Scanning (2) Unlocks ability to use range amplifier modules. +5% bonus to dropsuit scan radius per level. Nanocircuitry (2) Unlocks access to nanohives and nanite injectors. 5% reduction to cpu usage of modules that require the nanocircuitry skill per level. Profile Dampening (2) Unlocks the ability to use profile dampener modules. -5% dropsuit scan profile per level. Sensor Upgrades (2) 5% reduction to cpu usage of scanning and sensors. Drop Uplink Deployment (3) Unlocks access to standard drop uplinks at lvl1; advanced at lvl3; prototype at lvl5. Profile Analysis (3) Unlocks ability to use precision enhancer modules. -5% dropsuit scan precision per level. Systems Hacking (4) Unlocks ability to use codebreaker modules. +5% bonus to hacking speed per level. Engineering: Combat Engineering (1) +5% to dropsuit and vehicle maximum powergrid output per level. Powergrid Upgrades (2) Unlocks ability to use powergrid modules. 5% reduction to cpu usage of modules that require the powergrid upgrade skill per level. Shield boost systems (2) Unlocks ability to use shield booster modules. +3% to dropsuit and vehicle shield recharge rate per level. Shield Enhancements (2) Unlocks ability to use the upper-tier shield enhancers. 3% reduction to cpu usage of shield enhancer modules per level. Shield Control (3) +5% to dropsuit and vehicle maximum shield. Shield Transportation (3) Unlocks ability to use remote shield transporter modules. Shield Adaptation (5) Unlocks ability to use shield resistance amplifier modules. 3% reduction to spu usage of shield resistance amplifier modules per level. Mechanics: Field Mechanics (1) Unlocks ability to use armor modules. +5% to dropsuit and vehicle maximum armor. Armor Repair Systems (2) Unlocks ability to use armor repair modules. +3% armor repair rate per level. Armor Upgrades (2) Unlocks ability to use upper-tier armor modules. 3% reduction to pg usage of armor upgrade modules per level. Remote Repair Systems (3) Unlocks ability to use remote repair modules and equipment. Armor Adaptation (5) Unlocks ability to use armor hardener modules. 3% reduction to cpu usage of armor hardener modules per level. Demolitions: Grenadier (4) Unlocks access to standard grenades at lvl1; Advanced at lvl3; Prototype at lvl5. Handheld Weapons: Weaponry (1) 2% to handheld damage Assault Rifle Operation (2) 5% bonus to assault rifle dispersion and kick per level. Assault Rifle Proficiency (5) +3% assault rifle damage per level. Handheld Weapon Upgrades: Light Weapon Capacity (2) +5% light weapons maximum ammunition capacity per level. Light Weapon Rapid Reload (2) +3% bonus to light weapon reload speed per level. Light Weapon Sharpshooter (2) +5% light weapon maximum effective range per level. Light Weapon Upgrade (2) 5% reduction to light weapon cpu usage per level. Light Weapon Capacity Proficiency (5) +3% light weapon maximum ammunition capacity per level. Light Weapon Rapid Reload Proficiency (5) 2% bonus to light weapon reload speed per level. Light Weapon Sharpshooter Proficiency (5) +3% light weapon maximum effective range per level. Light Weapon Upgrade Proficiency (5) 3% reduction to light weapon cpu usage per level. That is max core skills plus roles' dropsuite skill, grenade and 1 weapon for 34,201,200 skill points, no vehicle skills. According to dev post of daily skill point caps being: active/passive 27,200/24,000 with boosters 40,800/36,000. It would take 668 days or 446 days with boosters to max out 1 role with 1 weapon, assuming you hit the cap each day. Or 1598/1065 days for the 81,771,960 skill points it takes to get all suits/weapons (but still no vehicles). question in next post:
Rustonius Intara Direct Action Caldari State 4	Posted - 2013.01.28 08:33:00 - [2] - Quote I am failing to follow how this works in an FPS. I've tried to do my research so hopefully i missed something. I keep seeing references to new players catching up in a few months ... not even close. 1.2 years to catch up to someone who is using a weapon that already does 50% more base damage (militia vrs advanced rifle) add in all the skills (25% more damage, 40% more ammo, 25% faster reload, 40% longer range) more skills: dropsuite scan (can see them earlier and they will see you later) and all the additional shield/armor you have over them. I guess i am looking for some reference to incentives for the late comers coming against a stacked deck. Why would i put 1.2 - 1.8 years into a character where the game is disincentivising player growth after launch? What's so bad about putting everyone on equal footing ealier? this is pvp and not pve game correct
Martin0 Brancaleone Maphia Clan Corporation CRONOS. 191	Posted - 2013.01.28 08:44:00 - [3] - Quote Shield adaptation, shield transporters and armor adaptation ARE vehicles skills. Also you don't NEED all those skills to 5 to be effective, if you want to be a logi weapons are sencondary to skills. Your problem is that you want to train EVERYTHING a logi can use now, focus on tanking and support skills first, the rest can wait.
Rustonius Intara Direct Action Caldari State 4	Posted - 2013.01.28 08:54:00 - [4] - Quote thanks about those 3 skills I would arguably add in the hacking one in as worthless, but my question remains the same. It's not what i want or need, this is going to be the case in 1 year. It would still take 1 year for some to catch up to the rest of the population who is doing (i hope its not rude to quote myself) Quote: using a weapon that already does 50% more base damage (militia vrs advanced rifle) add in all the skills (25% more damage, 40% more ammo, 25% faster reload, 40% longer range) more skills: dropsuite scan (can see them earlier and they will see you later) and all the additional shield/armor you have over them. this is a pvp game, if anything when you take a handicap, the person with the handicap should be given bonus to their skill cap pool or something. Would you play this game in one year, if you knew it would take you 1 year to make the playing field even? Although by then there would have been new skills added, so by the their 2nd year, and your 1st, you would still be behind. Seems kind of sick cycle, almost the opposite of fun in this case. Just asking what the plan is to make the player base grow instead of shrink.... maybe they just dont care, they'lle just release dust 524 come ps4? edit: added ", this is going to be the case in 1 year"
XXfootnoteXX ZionTCD Legacy Rising 76	Posted - 2013.01.28 09:12:00 - [5] - Quote This isn't EvE. We are not in flying Spreadsheets. There is a level of skill involved.
Rustonius Intara Direct Action Caldari State 4	Posted - 2013.01.28 09:28:00 - [6] - Quote XXfootnoteXX wrote: This isn't EvE. We are not in flying Spreadsheets. There is a level of skill involved. come on, i quoted the relevant part twice. the current advantage is set to: Quote: using a weapon that already does 50% more base damage (militia vrs advanced rifle) add in all the skills (25% more damage, 40% more ammo, 25% faster reload, 40% longer range) more skills: dropsuite scan (can see them earlier and they will see you later) and all the additional shield/armor you have over them. My question was why would i invest time into a game that on paper seems to make new subscribers not want to sign up the longer the game plays out. Currently as its set, trivilizing the advantage would seem like a slap in the face of the people who log in everyday for a year. Now if they let us grunts become some space marines and board some super caps/titans or other internet space ships belonging to actual Eve players and kill their captains... that would be something. However, the only goal in the game currently is the skill points. And skill be dammed with the current advantages and the time to overcome them for newbies. If i wanted such an advantage i would play an offline FPS and set the AI to ********.
Arramakaian Eka Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 363	Posted - 2013.01.28 09:59:00 - [7] - Quote Rustonius wrote: My question was why would i invest time into a game that on paper seems to make new subscribers not want to sign up the longer the game plays out. The main reason is matchmaking, corp battles and faction warfare. Matchmaking will ensure newbies will be fighting against other newbies. Most high-level players will be doing corp battles and faction warfare, and if they play pubs they will be fighting each other due to matchmaking. Another factor is specialization. I would say after 3m SP you more or less max out a role, even earlier if you don't take every skill to 5. Everything beyond that is either fine tweaks with minor improvements, or expanding to other roles. Therefore you can specialize and be in very good gear with very good skills within five months on passive SP alone. EVE has a similar system, and continues to sign up new players. EVE and Dust players are not in it for SP only - it is not a means to an end. I enjoy playing Dust. Having fun with it, you know. Also, the game is still in beta. And CCP (and us players) are in it for the long haul, and new features will come SoonGäó.
R F Gyro ZionTCD Legacy Rising 315	Posted - 2013.01.28 10:35:00 - [8] - Quote From a game design point of view, the skill progression system you've described is not designed to tempt the most new players to sign up, it is designed to keep the ones who do sign up playing for years. With respect to the time it takes to max out (catch-up), it only takes a few million SP to get to a "good enough" setup. Once your setup is good enough, player skill and teamwork dominates. As you point out, currently the only goal in the game for the vast majority of players is earning SP. That is not the intent of the game design team though, imho. The goal should eventually be capturing territory and winning wars, with SP just a means to an end. We clearly aren't there yet. In summary, if you view Dust as just another FPS then the skill progression system will seem like a bad thing, and Dust is probably not the right game for you.
Reout Karaal Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 51	Posted - 2013.01.28 14:01:00 - [9] - Quote XXfootnoteXX wrote: This isn't EvE. We are not in flying Spreadsheets. There is a level of skill involved. You mean the legendary "aiming and shooting" skill I keep hearing about? Funny, how it seems so even every first week after reset, when SP amounts are more or less equal, and only later "gun game" talks start when some people get ahead in SP. Good luck on bringing down shield tanked ADV+Duvolle with your MIL suit + Militia AR. One ADV/Duvole assault can kill Militia/STD squads until they give up and rage quit. A squad like that will stomp the match and no amount of tactics, or team effort, put in by MIL/STDs will be able to stop them. It's not about actual skill, it's about SP skill. So yeah, we are kind of running spreadsheets, but with aiming element added. There is no catching up and no "level of skill" that will let you jump over this kind of disadvantage, only way is to clench your teeth and grind SP in hopes to be good enough to get out alive, or to team up with people who already no-lifed to some leet gear. I'm OK with the reality, just stop BSing.
3 bird DUST University Ivy League 86	Posted - 2013.01.28 16:03:00 - [10] - Quote Hi, I keep saying this and i will keep on saying this. Please remember that what you are playing now is not a game, what you are doing is allow CCP to stress test servers, core game mechanics, balances gear and test maps. To that extent what you are currently playing is only the bare minimum CCP need to release to test what needs testing. If you fall into the mental trap of thinking this is the game you will come to the conclusion that this is nothing but yet another fps with a badly thought out skill system. and if this was the extent of the game you would be right to think that. Now in regards to your concerns over the skills system, a lot of people have already commented on the sp system its self but let me point out another aspect that most have failed to expand upon. In dust the idea is to capture land through battles, this land will contain resources that can be used in EVE Online to build all manner of gear for both eve players and dust players. A single merc will stand no chance on their own in achieving this object of claiming land, so groups of like minded mercs will work together to better there chances of victory forming corporations to better solidify this team work element. Soon groups of corporations will banding together to form alliances to further increase there combined effectiveness on the field, remembering each victory means more land, more resources, more isk, more money to buy better gear to fight better, longer and harder. All these corporations will be looking for new players to bolster there ranks and improve there chances. So while you are right, in a normal FPS the skill system would lead to those who have been playing longest repeatedly beating those who have just started. in Dust 514 every boot on the ground, no matter how skilled could be the difference between winning land or losing it. while individual skill (read sp) helps in a 1 on 1 conflict, the sizes of the conflict in Dust will be so staggering large that that 1 new player could literally be the deference between an entire alliance crumbling or winning. My point is there is a victory above and beyond simply K/D or W/L. and what you will probably see is in time to come, when new players join they will be pointed to a roll in combat that best suits them while the train up to specialise in a given roll. For instance every battle needs grunts, guys with guns willing to keep the pressure on a given objective. a commander might be reluctant to use his heavily specialised mercs to do that. So new players will always have a place in Dust 514, unskilled as they may well be. and while your right, if you look at it purely in terms of K/D ratio the new players will always be at a disadvantage to the older players, and yes it will take them a long time to match there peers, but there is so much more to Dust than that. and that is why the SP system isn't as ill fitting as it first appears to be in the open beta.

OMI43221 Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 15	Posted - 2013.01.28 16:53:00 - [11] - Quote Rustonius wrote: I am failing to follow how this works in an FPS. I've tried to do my research so hopefully i missed something. I keep seeing references to new players catching up in a few months ... not even close. 1.2 years to catch up to someone who is using a weapon that already does 50% more base damage (militia vrs advanced rifle) add in all the skills (25% more damage, 40% more ammo, 25% faster reload, 40% longer range) more skills: dropsuite scan (can see them earlier and they will see you later) and all the additional shield/armor you have over them. I guess i am looking for some reference to incentives for the late comers coming against a stacked deck. Why would i put 1.2 - 1.8 years into a character where the game is disincentivising player growth after launch? What's so bad about putting everyone on equal footing ealier? this is pvp and not pve game correct 50% more damage from a militia rifle vs an advance rifle ? Where are you getting that info from?
Fox Gaden DUST University Ivy League 163	Posted - 2013.01.28 17:21:00 - [12] - Quote There is a big difference between level 1 of a skill and level 5 of a skill, but not so big a difference between level 3 of a skill and level 5 of the skill and it does not take long to get to level 3. Then you go for level 4, which for a long time with be GÇ£good enoughGÇ¥ unless it is a base skill where you need level 5 to unlock other stuff. In EVE I have killed many players who have as much as an 8 year head start in their skill point development. It is all about specializing in a role, getting the right equipment, and using your gear and skills to take advantage of your enemyGÇÖs weaknesses. In EVE I would not go one on one with a 10 year vet in a similar ship. I would use a ship that countered their ship choice, or I would work with other EVE pilots as a team. In Dust I will not run out into the open and shoot another player in the face if I think their skills are higher or their equipment is better. Their Tank/DPS will beat my Tank/DPS. I will use cover and positioning and try to get the drop on them.
Rustonius Intara Direct Action Caldari State 4	Posted - 2013.01.28 21:18:00 - [13] - Quote Thanks for the great replies, but in my view they dont answer my question still. In one year why would a person deciding to pick up a game want to come into this game, so why should i play this? They will always be at a disadvantage, doesnt sound like fun, and the big overview doesnt do anything for the actual cog in the big machine. There are no other choices in this FPS, you go into the game and go immediately into battle looking at the wrong end of someone elses gun. Zero other play styles. And the later you join the game the bigger your handicap that you can never fix. I dont know where the 3M sp char is coming from, but i did the math, and there is a 9,047,580 skill point build that has all core skills to 3 except where higher required to meet prerequisite requirements. That build takes 177 days or 118 days boosted to reach. Not much of a difference where it counts between a 500k sp and 3M sp char. The difference between a 4 month char and a 1 year char is still damage between militia and rank 3 weapons are the same so, compared to rank 5 weapons, both have 50% less base damage (check the marketplace for statistics on weapons or this link on google docs marketplace weapons stats) as far as the rest of stats between 4 month old and 1 year old chars: just look at the numbers yourself below, i kept the descriptions: 10% less weapon damage, 10% more weapon kick, 6% less ammo, 4% slower reload, 6% less range etc. in addition to 10% less dropsuit cpu, power and armor, 6% slower shield recharge, 20% less stamina, 10% less sta recovery, ~20% bigger scan profile, 10% smaller scanner range, 10% less scanner accuracy. Same numbers for bonuses to equiping gear (using less cpu/power) which effect Fit layout choices. all that adds up to a disadvantage in every concievable fighting situation. "9M sp/4-6month" wrote: Dropsuit Command: Dropsuit Command (R1 L3) Unlocks assault suits at lvl1, scout and logistics at lvl2, heavy at lvl3, and access to specific suit specializations at lvl5. -5% to scan profile per level. Minmatar Logistics Dropsuit (R8 L3) Unlocks access to standard dropsuits at lvl1; advanced at lvl3; prototype at lvl5. Dropsuit Upgrades: Endurance (R3 L3) Unlocks ability to use cardiac stimulant modules to increase stamina. +5% stamina per level. Mobility (R3 L3) Unlocks ability to use kinectic catalyzer modules to increase sprinting speed. Vigor (R3 L3) Unlocks ability to use cardiac regulator modules to increase max stamina and stamina recovery rate. +5% max stamina and stamina recovery rate per level. Electronics: Circuitry (R1 L4) Unlocks ability to use drop uplinks end electronics modules. +5% bonus to dropsuit and vehicle cpu output per level. CPU Upgrades (R2 L3) Unlocks ability to use cpu upgrade modules. Long Range Scanning (R2 L3) Unlocks ability to use range amplifier modules. +5% bonus to dropsuit scan radius per level. Nanocircuitry (R2 L3) Unlocks access to nanohives and nanite injectors. 5% reduction to cpu usage of modules that require the nanocircuitry skill per level. Profile Dampening (R2 L3) Unlocks the ability to use profile dampener modules. -5% dropsuit scan profile per level. Sensor Upgrades (R2 L3) 5% reduction to cpu usage of scanning and sensors. Drop Uplink Deployment (R3 L3) Unlocks access to standard drop uplinks at lvl1; advanced at lvl3; prototype at lvl5. Profile Analysis (R3 L3) Unlocks ability to use precision enhancer modules. -5% dropsuit scan precision per level. Engineering: Combat Engineering (R1 L3) +5% to dropsuit and vehicle maximum powergrid output per level. Powergrid Upgrades (R2 L3) Unlocks ability to use powergrid modules. 5% reduction to cpu usage of modules that require the powergrid upgrade skill per level. Shield boost systems (R2 L4) Unlocks ability to use shield booster modules. +3% to dropsuit and vehicle shield recharge rate per level. Shield Enhancements (R2 L3) Unlocks ability to use the upper-tier shield enhancers. 3% reduction to cpu usage of shield enhancer modules per level. Shield Control (R3 L3) +5% to dropsuit and vehicle maximum shield. Mechanics: Field Mechanics (R1 L3) Unlocks ability to use armor modules. +5% to dropsuit and vehicle maximum armor. Armor Repair Systems (R2 L3) Unlocks ability to use armor repair modules. +3% armor repair rate per level. Armor Upgrades (R2 L3) Unlocks ability to use upper-tier armor modules. 3% reduction to pg usage of armor upgrade modules per level. Remote Repair Systems (R3 L3) Unlocks ability to use remote repair modules and equipment. Demolitions: Grenadier (R4 L3) Unlocks access to standard grenades at lvl1; Advanced at lvl3; Prototype at lvl5. Handheld Weapons: Weaponry (R1 L3) 2% to handheld damage Assault Rifle Operation (R2 L5) 5% bonus to assault rifle dispersion and kick per level. Assault Rifle Proficiency (R5 L3) +3% assault rifle damage per level. Handheld Weapon Upgrades: Light Weapon Capacity (R2 L5) +5% light weapons maximum ammunition capacity per level. Light Weapon Rapid Reload (R2 L5) +3% bonus to light weapon reload speed per level. Light Weapon Sharpshooter (R2 L5) +5% light weapon maximum effective range per level. Light Weapon Upgrade (R2 L5) 5% reduction to light weapon cpu usage per level. Light Weapon Capacity Proficiency (R5 L3) +3% light weapon maximum ammunition capacity per level. Light Weapon Rapid Reload Proficiency (R5 L3) 2% bonus to light weapon reload speed per level. Light Weapon Sharpshooter Proficiency (R5 L3) +3% light weapon maximum effective range per level. Light Weapon Upgrade Proficiency (R5 L3) 3% reduction to light weapon cpu usage per level.
LXicon Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 54	Posted - 2013.01.28 21:50:00 - [14] - Quote Rustonius wrote: ... In one year why would a person deciding to pick up a game want to come into this game, so why should i play this? They will always be at a disadvantage, doesnt sound like fun, and the big overview doesnt do anything for the actual cog in the big machine.... By that logic, there would be no new players joining any MMO games. In World of Warcraft (or similar) you don't get LVL 1 chars going up against LVL 70s. Similarly, there will be match-making in public matches where people with under 1 million SP won't get put in with people who have 7 million. Rustonius wrote: ...There are no other choices in this FPS, you go into the game and go immediately into battle looking at the wrong end of someone elses gun. Zero other play styles. In addition to the "it's still a beta" argument, there is also corporation battles and Faction Warfare which you have not mentioned. become a CEO, recruit an army and make a difference! Those are choices, they might just not appeal to you personally, but they exist.
OMI43221 Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 15	Posted - 2013.01.28 22:39:00 - [15] - Quote I just want to start this out by saying good questions and line of thinking. The link you posted matches my info but I think you need to take a closer look at it. A baseline militia tier 1 assault rifle does 31 damage. (militia Assault Rifle or Assault Rifle) A tier two or advanced assault rifle does 32.5 damage a 4.85% increase (Gek-38 Assault Rifle) A tier three or prototype assault rifle does 34.1 damage a 10% increase (Duvolle Assault Rifle) all of them have the same rate of fire. That's not a staggering or insurmountable difference. Within a month anyone can have weaponry at 5 and 3 points in assault rifle damage skill. Which means the 1 year player will have only around 6% damage increase over a starting character. I'm just point this out that the difference from someone starting out and someone with 15million SP you'll close to within 85-95% of what they do fairly quickly. Second I think overall you have a strong point that there is a lot more than just damage that affects gameplay....dropsuits, shields, stealth, movespeed and in total a brand new player is going to have a tough time facing anyone who has been playing for 6 months or more. But you have to balance that against risk and reward. If I'm using dropsuit fits that cost 40,000 and your using starter fits that cost you nothing then shouldn't I have some advantage over you since technically you don't have any real skin in the game. If you die no isk lost...every time I die I lose 40,000 isk. Ultimately though I think ccp will have to develop good match making to solve this issue that will develop over time. I want to add one more thing. That 3 million number is from people who have played the closed beta. Roughly once you get about 3 million SP into a single build its pretty 'flushed out' and additional points make a very small difference. That has been our collective experience with it. You might believe all the skills up their are necessary or will give you a significant advantage but many of them will not.
Knarf Black Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 396	Posted - 2013.01.28 22:56:00 - [16] - Quote Nobody is going to even be trying to max out all their core skills for a long time; especially the weapon proficiencies. Eventually you hit a point where it costs multi-millions in SP to add 3% damage or 2% reload speed, and frankly you'd have to be insane to pump everything up to the max when you could be adding multiple weapons or modules to your repertoire for the same cost. More likely, people will completely max out one or two things all the way through the 5x proficiency skill. (I might max out sidearm sharpshooter, but will never spend the gajillions of SP required to completely minimize the CPU requirements of my pistols and SMGs.)
Monkxx Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 18	Posted - 2013.01.28 23:00:00 - [17] - Quote So yeah..it takes appr. 1 year to achieve "something" in Dust514. As long as Eve gives the opprotunities to exist in New Eden with such skill system and different ways to interact with the virtual world Dust514 gives only one choice: 24 vs 24 typical console FPS. Other so called MMOFPS have levelling system which is similar to Dust514 skillpoints but the player is allowed to have High-Tier equipment much faster than in Dust514. There are no limits for the 'no-lifers" in other games too, btw. But overall it works in every MMOG because of matchmaking system. You will not meet 1y old Mercs as Newberry on the Instant Battle fields. But as soon as you join Corp Wars you will be smacked and crashed 24/7 by those Veteran Characters - those vets also want to beat the kittens from time to time... In the sum, the difference between Dust514 and other MMOFPS is amount of time you need to get "the last level" or "full build".
Rustonius Intara Direct Action Caldari State 4	Posted - 2013.01.28 23:12:00 - [18] - Quote oh you are right, i was comparing regular to tactical, which is available at every level. yes i dint think about the costs as well, right now the ISK reward seems fixed in a very small range no matter how bad or well i do, 150-250k i think. And some of the prototype suites cost more then the full ISK reward of a match, let alone putting any gear in the suit. yeah the isk balance is a very good point and the counter balance i wasnt seeing. As long as the two market places (eve and dust) are separate and money cant flow from Eve into Dust, then yes, i would gladly use a free suit compared to a 500k isk prototype suite per death. if the markets are open to each other then the bets are off the table when trillioners can drop pocket change on grunts to always wear full prototype suites. thanks omi! and everyone else for their replies. edit: fixed typo and finished sentence i left hanging.
Tanque Manutz Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 0	Posted - 2013.01.29 03:39:00 - [19] - Quote Really, the cost of dropsuit fits isn't balancing, or at least won't be when the game launches. The economy of Dust is tied directly into that of Eve, so Eve pilots will be putting out contracts to Dust mercenaries and building the gear that mercs use in combat. If Eve is anything to go by, then this means that your player who has been around for a long time will have acquired large amounts of income by accepting well funded contracts, as well as buying and selling gear on the open market. Thus, a player that has a 1 year advantage will always have a 1 year advantage, both in terms of skill points and money - Just like Eve.


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