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Rustonius Intara Direct Action Caldari State 4	Posted - 2013.01.28 08:33:00 - [1] - Quote Hi all, Trying to wrap my head around some numbers for character builds using numbers from mark shirey skill list and Dust skill point requirements per rank/level (google docs) and this dev post ccp frame: skill point earn rate. Looking at one role (logi): Quote: Dropsuit Command: Dropsuit Command (1) Unlocks assault suits at lvl1, scout and logistics at lvl2, heavy at lvl3, and access to specific suit specializations at lvl5. -5% to scan profile per level. Minmatar Logistics Dropsuit (8) Unlocks access to standard dropsuits at lvl1; advanced at lvl3; prototype at lvl5. Dropsuit Upgrades: Endurance (3) Unlocks ability to use cardiac stimulant modules to increase stamina. +5% stamina per level. Mobility (3) Unlocks ability to use kinectic catalyzer modules to increase sprinting speed. Vigor (3) Unlocks ability to use cardiac regulator modules to increase max stamina and stamina recovery rate. +5% max stamina and stamina recovery rate per level. Electronics: Circuitry (1) Unlocks ability to use drop uplinks end electronics modules. +5% bonus to dropsuit and vehicle cpu output per level. CPU Upgrades (2) Unlocks ability to use cpu upgrade modules. Long Range Scanning (2) Unlocks ability to use range amplifier modules. +5% bonus to dropsuit scan radius per level. Nanocircuitry (2) Unlocks access to nanohives and nanite injectors. 5% reduction to cpu usage of modules that require the nanocircuitry skill per level. Profile Dampening (2) Unlocks the ability to use profile dampener modules. -5% dropsuit scan profile per level. Sensor Upgrades (2) 5% reduction to cpu usage of scanning and sensors. Drop Uplink Deployment (3) Unlocks access to standard drop uplinks at lvl1; advanced at lvl3; prototype at lvl5. Profile Analysis (3) Unlocks ability to use precision enhancer modules. -5% dropsuit scan precision per level. Systems Hacking (4) Unlocks ability to use codebreaker modules. +5% bonus to hacking speed per level. Engineering: Combat Engineering (1) +5% to dropsuit and vehicle maximum powergrid output per level. Powergrid Upgrades (2) Unlocks ability to use powergrid modules. 5% reduction to cpu usage of modules that require the powergrid upgrade skill per level. Shield boost systems (2) Unlocks ability to use shield booster modules. +3% to dropsuit and vehicle shield recharge rate per level. Shield Enhancements (2) Unlocks ability to use the upper-tier shield enhancers. 3% reduction to cpu usage of shield enhancer modules per level. Shield Control (3) +5% to dropsuit and vehicle maximum shield. Shield Transportation (3) Unlocks ability to use remote shield transporter modules. Shield Adaptation (5) Unlocks ability to use shield resistance amplifier modules. 3% reduction to spu usage of shield resistance amplifier modules per level. Mechanics: Field Mechanics (1) Unlocks ability to use armor modules. +5% to dropsuit and vehicle maximum armor. Armor Repair Systems (2) Unlocks ability to use armor repair modules. +3% armor repair rate per level. Armor Upgrades (2) Unlocks ability to use upper-tier armor modules. 3% reduction to pg usage of armor upgrade modules per level. Remote Repair Systems (3) Unlocks ability to use remote repair modules and equipment. Armor Adaptation (5) Unlocks ability to use armor hardener modules. 3% reduction to cpu usage of armor hardener modules per level. Demolitions: Grenadier (4) Unlocks access to standard grenades at lvl1; Advanced at lvl3; Prototype at lvl5. Handheld Weapons: Weaponry (1) 2% to handheld damage Assault Rifle Operation (2) 5% bonus to assault rifle dispersion and kick per level. Assault Rifle Proficiency (5) +3% assault rifle damage per level. Handheld Weapon Upgrades: Light Weapon Capacity (2) +5% light weapons maximum ammunition capacity per level. Light Weapon Rapid Reload (2) +3% bonus to light weapon reload speed per level. Light Weapon Sharpshooter (2) +5% light weapon maximum effective range per level. Light Weapon Upgrade (2) 5% reduction to light weapon cpu usage per level. Light Weapon Capacity Proficiency (5) +3% light weapon maximum ammunition capacity per level. Light Weapon Rapid Reload Proficiency (5) 2% bonus to light weapon reload speed per level. Light Weapon Sharpshooter Proficiency (5) +3% light weapon maximum effective range per level. Light Weapon Upgrade Proficiency (5) 3% reduction to light weapon cpu usage per level. That is max core skills plus roles' dropsuite skill, grenade and 1 weapon for 34,201,200 skill points, no vehicle skills. According to dev post of daily skill point caps being: active/passive 27,200/24,000 with boosters 40,800/36,000. It would take 668 days or 446 days with boosters to max out 1 role with 1 weapon, assuming you hit the cap each day. Or 1598/1065 days for the 81,771,960 skill points it takes to get all suits/weapons (but still no vehicles). question in next post:
Rustonius Intara Direct Action Caldari State 4	Posted - 2013.01.28 08:33:00 - [2] - Quote I am failing to follow how this works in an FPS. I've tried to do my research so hopefully i missed something. I keep seeing references to new players catching up in a few months ... not even close. 1.2 years to catch up to someone who is using a weapon that already does 50% more base damage (militia vrs advanced rifle) add in all the skills (25% more damage, 40% more ammo, 25% faster reload, 40% longer range) more skills: dropsuite scan (can see them earlier and they will see you later) and all the additional shield/armor you have over them. I guess i am looking for some reference to incentives for the late comers coming against a stacked deck. Why would i put 1.2 - 1.8 years into a character where the game is disincentivising player growth after launch? What's so bad about putting everyone on equal footing ealier? this is pvp and not pve game correct
Rustonius Intara Direct Action Caldari State 4	Posted - 2013.01.28 08:54:00 - [3] - Quote thanks about those 3 skills I would arguably add in the hacking one in as worthless, but my question remains the same. It's not what i want or need, this is going to be the case in 1 year. It would still take 1 year for some to catch up to the rest of the population who is doing (i hope its not rude to quote myself) Quote: using a weapon that already does 50% more base damage (militia vrs advanced rifle) add in all the skills (25% more damage, 40% more ammo, 25% faster reload, 40% longer range) more skills: dropsuite scan (can see them earlier and they will see you later) and all the additional shield/armor you have over them. this is a pvp game, if anything when you take a handicap, the person with the handicap should be given bonus to their skill cap pool or something. Would you play this game in one year, if you knew it would take you 1 year to make the playing field even? Although by then there would have been new skills added, so by the their 2nd year, and your 1st, you would still be behind. Seems kind of sick cycle, almost the opposite of fun in this case. Just asking what the plan is to make the player base grow instead of shrink.... maybe they just dont care, they'lle just release dust 524 come ps4? edit: added ", this is going to be the case in 1 year"
Rustonius Intara Direct Action Caldari State 4	Posted - 2013.01.28 09:28:00 - [4] - Quote XXfootnoteXX wrote: This isn't EvE. We are not in flying Spreadsheets. There is a level of skill involved. come on, i quoted the relevant part twice. the current advantage is set to: Quote: using a weapon that already does 50% more base damage (militia vrs advanced rifle) add in all the skills (25% more damage, 40% more ammo, 25% faster reload, 40% longer range) more skills: dropsuite scan (can see them earlier and they will see you later) and all the additional shield/armor you have over them. My question was why would i invest time into a game that on paper seems to make new subscribers not want to sign up the longer the game plays out. Currently as its set, trivilizing the advantage would seem like a slap in the face of the people who log in everyday for a year. Now if they let us grunts become some space marines and board some super caps/titans or other internet space ships belonging to actual Eve players and kill their captains... that would be something. However, the only goal in the game currently is the skill points. And skill be dammed with the current advantages and the time to overcome them for newbies. If i wanted such an advantage i would play an offline FPS and set the AI to ********.
Rustonius Intara Direct Action Caldari State 4	Posted - 2013.01.28 21:18:00 - [5] - Quote Thanks for the great replies, but in my view they dont answer my question still. In one year why would a person deciding to pick up a game want to come into this game, so why should i play this? They will always be at a disadvantage, doesnt sound like fun, and the big overview doesnt do anything for the actual cog in the big machine. There are no other choices in this FPS, you go into the game and go immediately into battle looking at the wrong end of someone elses gun. Zero other play styles. And the later you join the game the bigger your handicap that you can never fix. I dont know where the 3M sp char is coming from, but i did the math, and there is a 9,047,580 skill point build that has all core skills to 3 except where higher required to meet prerequisite requirements. That build takes 177 days or 118 days boosted to reach. Not much of a difference where it counts between a 500k sp and 3M sp char. The difference between a 4 month char and a 1 year char is still damage between militia and rank 3 weapons are the same so, compared to rank 5 weapons, both have 50% less base damage (check the marketplace for statistics on weapons or this link on google docs marketplace weapons stats) as far as the rest of stats between 4 month old and 1 year old chars: just look at the numbers yourself below, i kept the descriptions: 10% less weapon damage, 10% more weapon kick, 6% less ammo, 4% slower reload, 6% less range etc. in addition to 10% less dropsuit cpu, power and armor, 6% slower shield recharge, 20% less stamina, 10% less sta recovery, ~20% bigger scan profile, 10% smaller scanner range, 10% less scanner accuracy. Same numbers for bonuses to equiping gear (using less cpu/power) which effect Fit layout choices. all that adds up to a disadvantage in every concievable fighting situation. "9M sp/4-6month" wrote: Dropsuit Command: Dropsuit Command (R1 L3) Unlocks assault suits at lvl1, scout and logistics at lvl2, heavy at lvl3, and access to specific suit specializations at lvl5. -5% to scan profile per level. Minmatar Logistics Dropsuit (R8 L3) Unlocks access to standard dropsuits at lvl1; advanced at lvl3; prototype at lvl5. Dropsuit Upgrades: Endurance (R3 L3) Unlocks ability to use cardiac stimulant modules to increase stamina. +5% stamina per level. Mobility (R3 L3) Unlocks ability to use kinectic catalyzer modules to increase sprinting speed. Vigor (R3 L3) Unlocks ability to use cardiac regulator modules to increase max stamina and stamina recovery rate. +5% max stamina and stamina recovery rate per level. Electronics: Circuitry (R1 L4) Unlocks ability to use drop uplinks end electronics modules. +5% bonus to dropsuit and vehicle cpu output per level. CPU Upgrades (R2 L3) Unlocks ability to use cpu upgrade modules. Long Range Scanning (R2 L3) Unlocks ability to use range amplifier modules. +5% bonus to dropsuit scan radius per level. Nanocircuitry (R2 L3) Unlocks access to nanohives and nanite injectors. 5% reduction to cpu usage of modules that require the nanocircuitry skill per level. Profile Dampening (R2 L3) Unlocks the ability to use profile dampener modules. -5% dropsuit scan profile per level. Sensor Upgrades (R2 L3) 5% reduction to cpu usage of scanning and sensors. Drop Uplink Deployment (R3 L3) Unlocks access to standard drop uplinks at lvl1; advanced at lvl3; prototype at lvl5. Profile Analysis (R3 L3) Unlocks ability to use precision enhancer modules. -5% dropsuit scan precision per level. Engineering: Combat Engineering (R1 L3) +5% to dropsuit and vehicle maximum powergrid output per level. Powergrid Upgrades (R2 L3) Unlocks ability to use powergrid modules. 5% reduction to cpu usage of modules that require the powergrid upgrade skill per level. Shield boost systems (R2 L4) Unlocks ability to use shield booster modules. +3% to dropsuit and vehicle shield recharge rate per level. Shield Enhancements (R2 L3) Unlocks ability to use the upper-tier shield enhancers. 3% reduction to cpu usage of shield enhancer modules per level. Shield Control (R3 L3) +5% to dropsuit and vehicle maximum shield. Mechanics: Field Mechanics (R1 L3) Unlocks ability to use armor modules. +5% to dropsuit and vehicle maximum armor. Armor Repair Systems (R2 L3) Unlocks ability to use armor repair modules. +3% armor repair rate per level. Armor Upgrades (R2 L3) Unlocks ability to use upper-tier armor modules. 3% reduction to pg usage of armor upgrade modules per level. Remote Repair Systems (R3 L3) Unlocks ability to use remote repair modules and equipment. Demolitions: Grenadier (R4 L3) Unlocks access to standard grenades at lvl1; Advanced at lvl3; Prototype at lvl5. Handheld Weapons: Weaponry (R1 L3) 2% to handheld damage Assault Rifle Operation (R2 L5) 5% bonus to assault rifle dispersion and kick per level. Assault Rifle Proficiency (R5 L3) +3% assault rifle damage per level. Handheld Weapon Upgrades: Light Weapon Capacity (R2 L5) +5% light weapons maximum ammunition capacity per level. Light Weapon Rapid Reload (R2 L5) +3% bonus to light weapon reload speed per level. Light Weapon Sharpshooter (R2 L5) +5% light weapon maximum effective range per level. Light Weapon Upgrade (R2 L5) 5% reduction to light weapon cpu usage per level. Light Weapon Capacity Proficiency (R5 L3) +3% light weapon maximum ammunition capacity per level. Light Weapon Rapid Reload Proficiency (R5 L3) 2% bonus to light weapon reload speed per level. Light Weapon Sharpshooter Proficiency (R5 L3) +3% light weapon maximum effective range per level. Light Weapon Upgrade Proficiency (R5 L3) 3% reduction to light weapon cpu usage per level.
Rustonius Intara Direct Action Caldari State 4	Posted - 2013.01.28 23:12:00 - [6] - Quote oh you are right, i was comparing regular to tactical, which is available at every level. yes i dint think about the costs as well, right now the ISK reward seems fixed in a very small range no matter how bad or well i do, 150-250k i think. And some of the prototype suites cost more then the full ISK reward of a match, let alone putting any gear in the suit. yeah the isk balance is a very good point and the counter balance i wasnt seeing. As long as the two market places (eve and dust) are separate and money cant flow from Eve into Dust, then yes, i would gladly use a free suit compared to a 500k isk prototype suite per death. if the markets are open to each other then the bets are off the table when trillioners can drop pocket change on grunts to always wear full prototype suites. thanks omi! and everyone else for their replies. edit: fixed typo and finished sentence i left hanging.

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