I'm still all for advocating this idea.
Force first person vehicle views, add enter and exit animations and it's pure gold.
I know, you hate those suggestions.

But until you can control who is in your tank it makes its useless where chances are a blue dot may get the main turret so the ****** will fire at anything

Until tank driver can lock the doors and boot out any and all gunners if they want to this will continue to be a bad idea as it stands

If every other vehicle currently has to deal with it, changing tanks to work that way would be balance, until it's fixed.

That's what LAVs are like right now, if you can't stand being put down to the same level as everyone else, then **** you.

McBob, you know this will break HAVs. Why not ask for improvements to LAVs? Asking CCP to make others unhappy because you aren't happy is ._. I believe CCP is balancing the game based on corp vs corp battles, and not pub stomping.

IMO you should make a thread about changes you'd like to see in LAVs. I don't support breaking tanks, but I definitely believe that the role of LAVs needs to be tweaked.

I see LAVs as support vehicles. I would love it if LAVs became the vehicle equivalent of a logibro. I would have no problem with CCP removing the turret and replacing it with an extra seat. Right now we have four man squads, but only three seats! Their defense could be running people over lol. Or maybe people in the LAV could shoot out of it with small weapons?

Drive-by LAV with SMGs and pistols would be so awesome! It might even make more people spec into small weapons.

if u get a bad gunner in a LAV at least u can roadkill ppl if u get a bad gunner in a tank ur screwed.

I'm not saying to ruin the game for tanks- I'm saying to make it consistent in the idea that no vehicle with multiple seats should be possible to be a one man army in.

I can understand that position, but any tank that tries to be a one man army will get demolished.

Tanks do seem like a one man army, and I thought they were too before I started driving and skilling one. There is so much strategy and teamwork that is required to successfully use a tank. I'm not talking about stuff like railgun sniping, because tanks that do that are most likely not supporting infantry.

Tanks are very easy to kill. For instance, a proto forge gun deals more damage than a proto railgun on a tank. AV nades and swarms are no-skill weapons that can easily kill armor HAVs. HAVs can actually be solod in a large number of situations.

Tanks are also a formidable weapon on the field. When used correctly, tanks need at least one other person supporting them, or even the whole team. What you are asking for will not make a good tank into a two-man vehicle, it will make a good tank into a three to four man vehicle. Requiring even more people than are already needed to operate a tank is not a buff.

I know you probably won't believe me about tanks not being a one man army, but if CCP is seriously considering this, could CCP please listen to the comms of a skilled tank during a corp battle or hard pub game? (I'm sure they'd give it the ok!) Tankers don't want to give out their strategy to everyone who reads forums.

I guess another example is what happened to me. I started using tanks a week or two ago, and I sucked. It was bad. I got blown up by everything. Slap gave me lots of help ^^ and now I can kill some tanks. I'm obviously not the best tanker in the game, but I'm no longer the worst!

The biggest change I made to stay alive long enough to kill something was: strategy and teamwork.

edit: made my post before Breaking Stuff made his, but I also agree with what he said.

Didn't know that was possible...

I like cats. They taste great.

Ok now that the childish streak is over with...

back on topic, punks.

There are two schools of thought here, both are equally valid. Do you specialize so that you get good at one thing, and one thing only, then expand from there?

Or do you get a solid, broad base and insure you will not be found with your pants around your ankles?

This is a personal decision and there's really no one right answer, because some people (like me) want overall competence and flexibility.

Others want to be the nova knife slashing through their chosen situation like a scout shotty on a newly-spawned protobear.

I sortof understand what you're saying, but I don't understand what this has to do with the thread.

i was posting in the wrong window. So I suggest you edit what i was saying to sound as Derp as possible. have fun with it. I do.

Edit: TL;DR version of the OP: tanks suck because they are efficient, they need the driver and gunner separate.

TL;DR response: You are a freaking moron, OP.

They aren't 'efficient' they are different. They aren't tanks either, no matter how often we call them such. They are, for all intents and purposes, an LAV after a binge. Why they are different is what the OP is attempting to answer, and all the HAV drivers jumped him for trying to make them equal to everyone else.

A tank is expensive. If you field one out of your own singular pocket, then you are missing the point of a corporation. Even if you intend to fund it from an EVE profile, that's still two different 'you's with a massive difference in pay grades. HAVs are a squad support vehicle, not a single man power-up. Will the driver lose his ability to fire and move? Yes. Will that make him any different from any other driver? No.

nobody wants to be a driver that cannot accrue warpoints. In fact this is a primary reason people don't fly dropships. They're a surefire way of losing 300k ISK and little else. CRU dropships get parked on an impossible-to-reach roof and left there as an impromptu droplink and left for the duration.

And screw you, no, if you can afford a tank and willing to risk it you are ENTIRELY justified in expecting to be able to rock out and party with a blaster like it's the night before the apocalypse. if you hate tanks do what I'm doing. train forge guns to 5 and forge gun proficiency to 5 and go hunt them mercilessly with an Ishukone Assault Forge Gun. they die in rapid order to those.

Tanks are not OP. There's a distinct shortage of people who know how to fight them without the zerg rush, or half a dozen militia forges or swarms. If you're not going to try to do that wait till there's more people like me who get a woody making them go pop.

nobody wants to be a driver that cannot accrue warpoints. In fact this is a primary reason people don't fly dropships. They're a surefire way of losing 300k ISK and little else. CRU dropships get parked on an impossible-to-reach roof and left there as an impromptu droplink and left for the duration.

And screw you, no, if you can afford a tank and willing to risk it you are ENTIRELY justified in expecting to be able to rock out and party with a blaster like it's the night before the apocalypse. if you hate tanks do what I'm doing. train forge guns to 5 and forge gun proficiency to 5 and go hunt them mercilessly with an Ishukone Assault Forge Gun. they die in rapid order to those.

Tanks are not OP. There's a distinct shortage of people who know how to fight them without the zerg rush, or half a dozen militia forges or swarms. If you're not going to try to do that wait till there's more people like me who get a woody making them go pop.

Fine, but if you are JUSTIFIED in bringing in a tank on your lonesome, the lone AV specialist who kills you is equally just, deal?

Also, if HAVs are meant to be your little solo 'rock out' then why do so many HAV users pussyfoot their red line for fear of loss? Because their lone tailpipe can't afford it. If you can afford to buy a Titan for yourself, congrats at your opulence, but it doesn't make it any less badly suited to 1 v 1.

Also, I did do what you are doing. I spent an entire build doing nothing but that. I spent another build tanking, and another using the HMG, and still one more being a Logi Bro. I've seen a tank from all sides.

Blowing up other peoples' expensive investments is kinda my hobby. But I'm not advocating making tanks invulnerable. far from it. Don't take away the driver's turret control. That's it. it's a ******** idea because unless you and Johnny B. Shotmyself over there tagteaming a tank have spent real world time driving and gunning in an M-1 Abrams YOU DO NOT know how to set up an optimal shot.

I've seen tank drivers having a hard time setting up shots to take things ddown. i have less problems because I'm a cheapass that uses blasters and consider my own tanks to be expendable LOLroll machines that someone gets to brag about smashing.

They have my blessing, because my average ISK payout is enough for a militia soma each battle. I cheer when they pop my LOLroll hull and end my murderous rampages.

Then I go rampage in a dropsuit and do even more damage.

However. there is no reason to believe that your average blueberry is more than a lukewarm IQ moron who thinks he's slick sh** and fails to prioritize threats. Second sometimes when the tank is moving drivers hit **** that botches your aim. Finally, you bought a tank. Who am I to tell you that it's not your perogative to hose down your enemies with cannon fire?

Just understand I won't apologize when I kill you. And i will chase you like an angry bloodhound who wants nothing more than to make you cry. Because you took away his treats.

There's a lot of Derp in that thar post.

1.because the HAV has a critical weakness if you force it to use a gunner. that's one less set of boots on the ground looking to intercept me before I put a shot through it's glacis plate.

2. I don't normally die to the tanks when i'm tank hunting. it's the infantry the tank is supporting that usually nail me.

3. Plus you have not made any point that convinces me that tank drivers need to lose gun control. Your arguments are anecdotal and quite frankly misinformed.

4. A driver parking on a slight incline is quite capable of putting the tank at enough of an angle that a gunner cannot depress the cannon enough to shoot me as I stand nearby merrily chucking AV grenades from the center of a nanohive. the driver also using the main cannon can correct this very quickly.

5. Also. If the driver (who has ISK invested in not having his tank pop like a zit) spots a threat and the gunner doesn't? or ignores the driver who;s screaming on comms that there's a madrugar sighting down on them? or worse? An Immobile Infantry forgegun execution line preparing a twenty-one gun salute?

6. Until you give me a compelling reason why tanks should require a four man crew, I'm not going to agree. Because it nerfs the effectiveness of tanks by slowing down the reaction time. And It punishes the HAV driver who spent a lot of SP pumping up not only the tank and relevant module skills, but the turret control skills to be able to shoot effectively.

7. You're talking about the equivalent of taking a heavy and making it so he can;t fire the HMG unless a scout spoons with him and helps pull the trigger.

ARRGH STOP POINTING OUT THAT TANKS HAVE AN OBVOUSLY UNFAIR ADVANTAGE OVER EVERY VEHICLE IN THE GAME