Because a tank costs about a million ISK generally, while LAV's have a Max cost of 400 k and move pretty damn fast.

WHAT? It would be a huge nerf. Many corps can field many tanks. As it stands right now, having three tanks on the field is much better than having one tank with a couple of guys in turrets.

How would separating the driver from the gunner make them harder to kill? A driver can predict his next move without using a mic... because he is making the move. An additional gunner doesn't always know what move the driver will make next, and when is the right time to take the shot.

This would also destroy any form of vehicle combat in pub matches. I understand if you don't want a tank destroying noobs, I try to use railgun for mostly tank v tank, but the way to do this is by restricting what vehicles and gear can be used in pub matches. Making it so that one dumb **** blue dot is your gunner is a terrible idea.

Imo you don't truely understand how bad blue dots are until you drive a tank. They shoot at the enemy MCC, they shoot at your own tank and turret causing smoke and vibrations making it harder to use and see, they fire and overheat the small turrets randomly at no targets or your own tank so they can't be used against enemy infantry, they rarely leave the tank to capture objectives, and they love to fire shots that give away your position instead of waiting for the best time.

If you want to try using a large turret, ask a tanker in your corp to try out his tank, or skill into them yourself. Tankers skilled into large turrets so we can use them, and not some randumb blueberry or people without any points in large turrets.

And like the other guy said, a good proto tank might cost 2mil. Don't you think a tank that costs five times more than your LAV should have some cool benefit that your LAV does not have?

lol already put down Mobius fo suggesting this dumb idea
to drop some logic on u OP what happens when MTACs and Fighters get added?
u gonna have 1 person operate the legs of the MTAC and 1 gun or have more than 1 person fly a jet?
ppl need to accept that there will be single manned vehicles thats just how it is

tanks already need support as is with either good gunners in the small turrets or ground infantry

ppl need to stop comparing LAVs and Dropships needing 2 ppl to a tank

Video games: Fun > Real life.

If you want to use the IRL argument, ask that we only fight on Earth and take out anything futuristic.

._. What? Tanks can easily be blown up by "halfassed AV". You even go as far to say that they get blown up so easily in ambush that they shouldn't be used at all.

._. You realize that vehicles can help each other, right? There are even logi LAVs and you can even fit a HAV to be a logi type too.

If you want a 4 man tank then the base hp of shield/armor needs to be increase by 50% at least so that it requires more than 1 person in AV to kill it

Also allow driver to boot anyone from all the guns if need be so blue dots dont take up room

I can say from experience that both need a buff. LAV's need more eHP and CPU/PG, and HAV's need slightly more speed and CPU/PG. Also, there should be a different class of vehicle that's has more eHP than HAV's And the driver gets a small turret. No need to already nerf the already bad vehicles. Anyways, I'll pretend you haven't used them, in a sad attempt to validate my opinion

I am in favor of tank change to separate driver-gunners.

It would be more consistent as of all the current vehicles it is the one that can shoot solo. As it is the powerhouse of the three, it is a bit strange to have it this current way.


Would that hurt or help tank operators?
Both.
- Having a minimum of two is a tremendous handicap for the operating team - but that can be considered an acceptable price to have such a behemoth.
+ It would be easier to concentrate on aiming, especially smaller targets.
- It would be more difficult playing peek-a-boo, doing those quick out of cover shots before backing into cover.
+ It would be easier to use active modules - they are currently quite impractical.
- It might be harder to drive backwards, although driver might be given ability to rotate view.
+ On the other hand, it would be easier to make a fighting retreat, the driver could concentrate on road and obstacles while the turret could still do semi-effective shooting.
- On general, it would take more effort to take most out of the effectiveness of a tank as teamwork and communication would be paramount (that could also be considered as a good point as anything which promotes teamwork... Is good.)
+ Tank would have more sets of eyes and better awareness, especially to back.


I would really like to see tanks as roaring mobile vantage points having turrets able to shoot in all directions, requiring teamwork.


And leave the role of 100% solo operated equipment to future MTACs, which would have huge weakness in their blind backside.

This post is the worst idea in the world, not the worst but who's Gunna risk their spendy tank when u might get a ****** turret operator, unless of course in order to use the tank as gunners you had to put in 25% of the isk for the tank cost before being able to bored the tank.

I'm still all for advocating this idea.
Force first person vehicle views, add enter and exit animations and it's pure gold.
I know, you hate those suggestions.

But until you can control who is in your tank it makes its useless where chances are a blue dot may get the main turret so the ****** will fire at anything

Until tank driver can lock the doors and boot out any and all gunners if they want to this will continue to be a bad idea as it stands

McBob, you know this will break HAVs. Why not ask for improvements to LAVs? Asking CCP to make others unhappy because you aren't happy is ._. I believe CCP is balancing the game based on corp vs corp battles, and not pub stomping.

IMO you should make a thread about changes you'd like to see in LAVs. I don't support breaking tanks, but I definitely believe that the role of LAVs needs to be tweaked.

I see LAVs as support vehicles. I would love it if LAVs became the vehicle equivalent of a logibro. I would have no problem with CCP removing the turret and replacing it with an extra seat. Right now we have four man squads, but only three seats! Their defense could be running people over lol. Or maybe people in the LAV could shoot out of it with small weapons?

Drive-by LAV with SMGs and pistols would be so awesome! It might even make more people spec into small weapons.

if u get a bad gunner in a LAV at least u can roadkill ppl if u get a bad gunner in a tank ur screwed.

I can understand that position, but any tank that tries to be a one man army will get demolished.

Tanks do seem like a one man army, and I thought they were too before I started driving and skilling one. There is so much strategy and teamwork that is required to successfully use a tank. I'm not talking about stuff like railgun sniping, because tanks that do that are most likely not supporting infantry.

Tanks are very easy to kill. For instance, a proto forge gun deals more damage than a proto railgun on a tank. AV nades and swarms are no-skill weapons that can easily kill armor HAVs. HAVs can actually be solod in a large number of situations.

Tanks are also a formidable weapon on the field. When used correctly, tanks need at least one other person supporting them, or even the whole team. What you are asking for will not make a good tank into a two-man vehicle, it will make a good tank into a three to four man vehicle. Requiring even more people than are already needed to operate a tank is not a buff.

I know you probably won't believe me about tanks not being a one man army, but if CCP is seriously considering this, could CCP please listen to the comms of a skilled tank during a corp battle or hard pub game? (I'm sure they'd give it the ok!) Tankers don't want to give out their strategy to everyone who reads forums.

I guess another example is what happened to me. I started using tanks a week or two ago, and I sucked. It was bad. I got blown up by everything. Slap gave me lots of help ^^ and now I can kill some tanks. I'm obviously not the best tanker in the game, but I'm no longer the worst!

The biggest change I made to stay alive long enough to kill something was: strategy and teamwork.

edit: made my post before Breaking Stuff made his, but I also agree with what he said.

Ok now that the childish streak is over with...

back on topic, punks.

There are two schools of thought here, both are equally valid. Do you specialize so that you get good at one thing, and one thing only, then expand from there?

Or do you get a solid, broad base and insure you will not be found with your pants around your ankles?

This is a personal decision and there's really no one right answer, because some people (like me) want overall competence and flexibility.

Others want to be the nova knife slashing through their chosen situation like a scout shotty on a newly-spawned protobear.

nobody wants to be a driver that cannot accrue warpoints. In fact this is a primary reason people don't fly dropships. They're a surefire way of losing 300k ISK and little else. CRU dropships get parked on an impossible-to-reach roof and left there as an impromptu droplink and left for the duration.

And screw you, no, if you can afford a tank and willing to risk it you are ENTIRELY justified in expecting to be able to rock out and party with a blaster like it's the night before the apocalypse. if you hate tanks do what I'm doing. train forge guns to 5 and forge gun proficiency to 5 and go hunt them mercilessly with an Ishukone Assault Forge Gun. they die in rapid order to those.

Tanks are not OP. There's a distinct shortage of people who know how to fight them without the zerg rush, or half a dozen militia forges or swarms. If you're not going to try to do that wait till there's more people like me who get a woody making them go pop.

how are tanks Overpowered?

a forge gun equivalent to the tank pretty much 2-4 shot kills it.

Oh wait, are U mad your AV grenades don't instapop the caldari tanks?

Swap to Flux nades, they strip shields like a boss.

The HAVs have been nerfed to hell. they don't need another nerf.

And when I say my LOLroll tank? I mean the cheapseat thing i have the skills for that me and my family make bets on how long it takes someone to pop me. It's a bucket of laughs. I think I lost like eight of them in a row over the course of three battles.

It was a blast.

yet you still have not explained why thiss change should happen beyond it fits your mental model of symmetry somehow.

Not good enough

Instead of asking CCP to change what already exists why not ask for a variation?

If you want a HAV that needs a seperate gunner to driver why not request that aswell as having a solo HAV?

If you were to put it to the community I would put money on people wanting it to stay as it is but im sure they wouldnt say no to having the option to have a two man HAV.

The more of a variety the better