Welcome to New Eden, where everyone is going to kill you, including your team.

Drop Uplinks are places where you can spawn in where ever they are dropped.

New Eden is not a nice place, and a drop uplink doesn't mean you won't get camped, since they are easy to see and camp.

Well since your an EVE player, you should be familar with this, it's called station camping.

you undock and get killed by many many people who hate you and they kill you with dreads.

wow how little you understand proper station camping.

First you can only really be camped if you don't have a jump clone, and if you don't well you are not going anywhere. Second most station campers use the station they are camping for medical clones, so they can be back in the fight in about 45 seconds.

Now to address you main complaint, if your spawning into a spot that is camped and you know it's camped, that your fault. if you don't know it's camped then your not on comms, again your fault. if you are on comms and still don't know it's camped, your team mates suck, this is their fault, but still.

If you spawn into a group of people sitting on a spawn point you better be on comms tells everyone exactly which point it is, how many people, and to not use it. Anything less and it's your fault.

If the enemy has camped you into to one point, you fail, just give it up.

I know plenty, and in the right circumstances, it does work like that. However, it's not my failure if the game mechanics are spawning me IN TO the site that is being camped. If there is nothing you can do about it, how can it be your failure?

I don't have coms, I don't have a team yet, and players don't suck just because they don't even get a chance to get a shot off. You're a bad person and you should feel bad for being completely non-constructive. This isn't EVE, this is DUST - it's a shooter, there is a huge difference between the mechanics of a shooter and the mechanics of an open-world no-holds-barred MMO.

Unfortunately, you don't get to choose your spawn sites - so no, if I've been getting killed the moment I spawn, I just sit in the map overview and afk the rest of the game. It's got nothing to do with how good or bad players are at the game. Grow up, get a clue, and stop blaming players for a legitimate problem with the game.

And FYI - I've not only been the victim of being spawned right in front of the enemy, I've had the enemy spawn right in front of me on multiple occasions, with their backs to me, no where near a camp. This is bad mechanics, plain and simple. You can blame the players all you want, but I'm pretty sure it's just an opportunity for another lonely little gamer boy to rage on the forums. Go be non-constructive somewhere else.

I played a game earlier where I got spawned right in front of an enemy tank, gun pointed right at me. I don't blame the player for taking advantage of that situation. The mechanics are what is wrong. Fortunately, this is just the beta, and I'm sure that they will get a tune. But there is NO comparison whatsoever between getting spawncamped on DUST (as a result of where players are being spawned due to mechanics) and station camped in EVE (which is the result of careful planning, coordinating, and positioning to camp the specific player you are after, and there are a wide range of tactics to avoid being station camped, like insta-undocks that you can warp to without having to align - there are no such tactics available to avoid getting instakilled upon spawning in dust).

wow utter failure to understand sir.

This is New Eden, this is EVE, this is Dust514. they are the same game, only with different inputs.

However, beyond that point, if your just playing ambush and using default spawn that isn't what this game is. This is a Team based game, as I said if your not on comms, it's your fault, how do you expect to find a decent group of people to play with, or a good Corp if your not gonna talk to anyone?

I do get to pick my spawn points, even in ambush, because I am on comms, even if I'm not running with my corp I'm in the team channel communicating with my team, dropping uplinks so that people have a large number of places they can spawn from. atm we have a very small number of maps, because that's not what we are testing, we are testing the game play mechanincs, and we have been playing on the same basic maps for about 4 months, we know where all the spawn points are by default, so the get camped. This issue will be fairly easily resolve once the game goes live and we have thousands of maps, memorizing the spawn patterns on that number of maps is not gonna happen so this kind of event will not likely happen.

This game is not about instant action, or grinding sp, or running up your stats, people do that because we do not yet have the meat of this game, which is taking and holding planets.

If you think I should feel bad for the way I have reacted to you, you should feel worse for coming into a game not knowing what is going on, complaining about things and making assumptions on how things should work. Then your trying to argue this isn't what it is, dude, just walk away.

So my sugestions for you sir, get on comms, you can get a cheap 10 dollar usb headset and be on comms, there is no reason other than laziness for that. then start working with your team. at that point you won't have any issues with spawning unless your team is failing you. I have seen a team of randoms roll even the best squads when they work together. shoot in april I watched groups of randoms roll over anyone that stood in front of them because they worked together, and guess what, they weren't even on comms.

Yes I'm being mean here, but guess what, you are at fault for not participating and then coming here on the forums to whine about mechanics when they are not at fault.

you do know there are such things called drop uplinks? they let you spawn where every you plant them

wow how little you understand proper station camping.

Now to address you main complaint, if your spawning into a spot that is camped and you know it's camped, that your fault. if you don't know it's camped then your not on comms, again your fault. if you are on comms and still don't know it's camped, your team mates suck, this is their fault, but still.

If you spawn into a group of people sitting on a spawn point you better be on comms tells everyone exactly which point it is, how many people, and to not use it. Anything less and it's your fault.

If the enemy has camped you into to one point, you fail, just give it up.

When will spawning be fixed so we don't appear alone in front of a group of six people armed with HMGs and die instantly?

Well I'm sorry if you find everything offensive to you.

And if you can not afford 10 dollars for a cheap headset, then I am sorry for your situation, but at that point I should ask why you are playing Dust at all, but then you would probably find that offensive as well.

Also Zan is not trolling, it's what CCP has said several times http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgvM7av1o1Q

that's a bad excuse V, and you know it.

Good on your friend for helping you out, good on you for paying them back.

I refuse to get into a "My situation" arguement with you. RL is RL but an excuse is nothing more than that.

as for dealing with people, this is a social game, your gonna have to talk to people. some of them are gonna be like zan and G, some of them are gonna be like me, some of them are gonna be "nice" their are others who will lie to your face then as soon as you trust them they will steal eventhing that isn't nailed down.

You have said you play EVE, you should know how important a community is in a CCP game, this is no different..

as to the way I talk to people, sorry, but that's not gonna change and I stand by my statements. your understanding is lacking. you could have easily made this thread completely different as an example here are two possible ways to state your OP that would completely change the tone of this thread

"I am relatively new to Dust514 and I seem to keep spawning into areas with hostiles and killed very quickly. is this a rampant issue or is there a bug in the spawning system"

"The Spawning system seems to not take into account location of hostiles in relation to the spawning point, is this a bug or an intented game mechanic."

Either one of those would have gotten the same point across without the rest of us coming to the conclusions we have.

"HTFU" isn't an insult.

It isn't spiteful on a personal level.

It's part of the intended, supported ethos of New Eden, in which DUST 514 is set, alongside EVE Online. CCP themselves wrote a song about it (check the video out on YouTube). It's how their universe works, and when you're here, you're a part of that environment.

Yes, there are valid reasons for you to take offense to impolite behaviour, but within the setting of an official forum for a game which promotes "HTFU" as one of the core values instilled into their playerbase, there isn't a valid reason to call it immature and impolite.

The "problem" this thread is describing is something which everyone deals with equally, and for which there are in-built counters already in the game. It's also a problem which has been acknowledged by CCP, has been worked on and improved, and is continuing to be improved. If you aren't using the tools provided, that isn't the game's fault. If you're using the proper tools, but the enemy are still spawn camping your team, then you got outplayed. Either they found your Uplink and are camping that too, or they destroyed it to camp the other spawn locations (fixed or random)

The "problem" this thread is describing is something which everyone deals with equally, and for which there are in-built counters already in the game. It's also a problem which has been acknowledged by CCP, has been worked on and improved, and is continuing to be improved. If you aren't using the tools provided, that isn't the game's fault. If you're using the proper tools, but the enemy are still spawn camping your team, then you got outplayed. Either they found your Uplink and are camping that too, or they destroyed it to camp the other spawn locations (fixed or random)

Hence My sugestion the question shouldn't be is it a problem, it should be bug or intended operation.

So... it's not a problem, but CCP has acknowledged it's a problem and has constantly been improving the problem... that isn't a problem. You seem to be playing both sides of the fence here. Either it is a problem, criticism is valid, but it's getting better... or it isn't a problem, and they need to HTFU. But the two are pretty mutually exclusive. Otherwise it's pretty silly to tell someone to HTFU for pointing out an acknowledged issue.

I don't like HTFU on the principle that it's a spiteful thing to say - the assumption is that the target of the comment is soft and "unworthy". I don't think anyone needs to "HTFU", but rather the people who feel the need to use such hasty and degrading terms need to "GTFU".

G = Grow

You can argue that it's not all you like, the bottom line is that people are going to be offended by saying such a thing, and if you don't know that or can't understand why, well I'm afraid ignorance is no defence for ignorance or general dickiness.

So... it's not a problem, but CCP has acknowledged it's a problem and has constantly been improving the problem... that isn't a problem. You seem to be playing both sides of the fence here. Either it is a problem, criticism is valid, but it's getting better... or it isn't a problem, and they need to HTFU. But the two are pretty mutually exclusive. Otherwise it's pretty silly to tell someone to HTFU for pointing out an acknowledged issue.

[quote=Tinodi]
I don't like HTFU on the principle that it's a spiteful thing to say - the assumption is that the target of the comment is soft and "unworthy". I don't think anyone needs to "HTFU", but rather the people who feel the need to use such hasty and degrading terms need to "GTFU".

G = Grow

You can argue that it's not all you like, the bottom line is that people are going to be offended by saying such a thing, and if you don't know that or can't understand why, well I'm afraid ignorance is no defence for ignorance or general dickiness.

It isn't a severe problem, because there are workarounds for it in place already, but they're still trying to fix the remaining minor issues with the system.

"HTFU" is a valid response for the claims that it's "unfair" to be spawn-camped, because there's already a way to avoid that, and because everyone has the same "unfair" problem to deal with, which negates the claim completely.

It isn't a severe problem, because there are workarounds for it in place already, but they're still trying to fix the remaining minor issues with the system.

"HTFU" is a valid response for the claims that it's "unfair" to be spawn-camped, because there's already a way to avoid that, and because everyone has the same "unfair" problem to deal with, which negates the claim completely.

So your whole complaint was over semantics? Why not just acknowledge that it is a problem, it's being worked on, and move on?

At the start of just about every match I've been in today, I've been spawned, right at the start, in front of a stack of enemies. Sometimes I escape, sometimes enemies get spawned in front of me, but most of the time, I die. All within the first 10-30 seconds. Tell me, where was my opportunity for tis "workaround" you speak of?

HTFU is never a valid response, it's rude, and childish, and unconstructive. It's also antagonistic - how on earth do you expect someone to respond to that? "Oh sorry sir, I do now realise that I'm a softcock and need to HTFU, although my problem still remains completely unresolved within the simplicity of such a broad statement, I guess I'll just have to rethink all my core values and adjust to suit your standards of ability."

Yeah, like that's gonna happen.

The sheer fact that it's a "workaround" and not a complete solution should tell you that it's not perfect and that there's still a need for work to be done on the systems currently in place. For the record, while it's sometimes REALLY bad, the worst moments are MUCH fewer than they used to be, even compared with Codex, and especially when compared with some previous builds.


As I said in my previous post, and as I tried to explain at first, "HTFU" isn't an insulting term. It's advice about how the game developers intend for it to be played. The game universe is MEANT to be harsh and brutal, and you're meant to have to live with the consequences. When things are going wrong, for the most part, you just have to deal with it.


You're right. Nobody will appreciate the concept. Because EVE Online hasn't lasted 9 years with almost exactly that attitude.

When will spawning be fixed so we don't appear alone in front of a group of six people armed with HMGs and die instantly?

+1

I manage to randomly spawn into a hail of HMG bullets, 3 times in a row; even trying to run is not an option, as I was dead-on-arrival Every Single Time.

Based on impressions from last night, even perfectly random spawning would have resulted in better spawns than the current system.

@CCP: I would suggest either completely random spawning, or using a weighted map (or heat map) to spawn players relatively closer to blue dots than to red ones.

Why is it always an HMG that's killing people who spawn? Are the HMG user mapping out the location of every possible spawn point?

It only seems that way

Random spawns is a particular problem to ambush, one of the reasons I don't play it too much. Spawns on skirmish are in a much better place due to the number of controllable objectives and base spawns. If you chose to spawn on a flashy objective or one you've just died near its your decision. The random spawn near the objective is much better than the old one.

I'll leave red lining for another discussion.

Was no one on your team using drop uplinks?

I totally agree. This is why I don't often play ambush without a squad.
It's much less of a problem on Skirmish. Worst case scenario you can spawn in the base or on the MCC. Getting redlined can be a slight problem, but at least with that you get the opportunity to play your way out of it. I've seen teams concentration so hard on trying to redline us that once we managed to sneak past their perimeter, we had no obstacle taking a few objectives.

TLDR;

The spawn system needs some work but you are making it worse with your gameplay.

Stop dieing. You will need to spawn much less.

Look around and move constantly especially when you spawn in. The number of people I shoot in the side/back of the head because of their poor mobility and tactical sense is comedic.

Stop filling the forums with crying. There are only some many bits on the internets and you have used yours up.

The spawn mechanic is fixed. If you spawn into a situation like the one you explained in the OP, then you have alternate avenues to spawn in. In other shooters you don't really have this option. Also you can spawn back in your camp so that you can not get killed by the enemy.

P.s. play a game through before saying something broke. One situation or bad move on your part doesn't mean it's broken just you have not found the counterattack. They give everyone the power of a god, it's up to you what you do with it.

I think we should all settle down and stay on topic :D this isn't constructive at all

TLDR;

The spawn system needs some work but you are making it worse with your gameplay.

Stop dieing. You will need to spawn much less.

Look around and move constantly especially when you spawn in. The number of people I shoot in the side/back of the head because of their poor mobility and tactical sense is comedic.

Stop filling the forums with crying. There are only some many bits on the internets and you have used yours up.

TLDR;

The spawn system needs some work but you are making it worse with your gameplay.

Stop dieing. You will need to spawn much less.

Look around and move constantly especially when you spawn in. The number of people I shoot in the side/back of the head because of their poor mobility and tactical sense is comedic.

Stop filling the forums with crying. There are only some many bits on the internets and you have used yours up.

Welcome to dust.

You are correct in your observation of the spawn camping problem, but believe me it was much, much, much worse.

Most of us are a bit jaded and have been preaching dropping up links so it may come off wrong to a new player.

Yes it is a skill or you can go to the militia items and purchase them for cheap, then get creative in where you hide them and you can spawn in the whole game with nothing to worry about. Well not nothing there is whole other team with guns looking for you.

Just a suggestion if you are getting spawn camped out of the mcc. Do not keep spawning out of it, spawn at the ground unit.


Good luck and check the training grounds room for lots of other advice.

Of course, so easy to say when your corp gets a **** load of ISK from you EVE acct before it could be stopped, giving you the option and ability to purchse those skillbooks that cost 1M isk + while the rest of us go through match by match earning ours. Personally you shouldn't open your mouth or type about others not dieing or needing to spawn less with the ISK you got. That alone is truly comedic as you so eloquently state!

The point is there are too many panties in a twist right now and V is right in the fact that in many ambush matches most of us are spawned right in front of others and barely get the chance to move anywhere.

The bully **** that's flying around is pathetic. We were once all rookies at some point and we all needed guidence as well.

V- I understand your situation and would like to invite you to join my corp 30D (3dge of D4rkness). We will work with you and support you in anyway that we can. Mics are required and your situation will be taken into consideration. I hope you think about it and look to us as your friends hun.

Spoken like a true warrior. Those who insult thy enemy are only looked to as mindless savages. We need more people like you on this planet :P

Now we just have to figure out what planet we are on :p

I don't have a team, and I have no idea what an uplink is at this stage. I'm still learning the game.... it seems to me though that requiring a special module to prevent spawning right in front of the enemy is a little pithi. I haven't got voice stuff atm, only just got a ps3 tbh and this is my first go at the game. I've played a lot of shooters... I have no problem with camping snipers, I just hunt them down and snipe them myself. Annoying shotgunners? That's what 'nades are for. I don't have the "I died so I'm going to whine about player tactics" problem - if they've worked out how to camp spawn sites, then there is a problem with the mechanics of spawn sites. I know this is EVE... but it's definitely more of a shooter, this game, and the mechanics need to reflect that. Spawning definitely needs to be fixed.

Let me just add, too... that this perhaps comes off as a bit of a whine. While it can be incredibly annoying to spawn right in front of a squad of enemy soldiers, I understand that this is just a beta still, and I'm just trying to provide feedback - the spawning system needs to be tuned.

When will spawning be fixed so we don't appear alone in front of a group of six people armed with HMGs and die instantly?

TLDR;

The spawn system needs some work but you are making it worse with your gameplay.

Stop dieing. You will need to spawn much less.

Look around and move constantly especially when you spawn in. The number of people I shoot in the side/back of the head because of their poor mobility and tactical sense is comedic.

Stop filling the forums with crying. There are only some many bits on the internets and you have used yours up.

TLDR;

The spawn system needs some work but you are making it worse with your gameplay.

Stop dieing. You will need to spawn much less.

Look around and move constantly especially when you spawn in. The number of people I shoot in the side/back of the head because of their poor mobility and tactical sense is comedic.

Stop filling the forums with crying. There are only some many bits on the internets and you have used yours up.

Welcome to the game! Excellent point. Spawning has been buggy forever. Everyone knows it. The best CCP seems to offer at this point is for you to use uplinks (basically you choose your own future spawn point), which is better than nothing but was born out of laziness - instead of fixing a problem CCP pushes us to live with and deal with it.

As a side note, let me offer a piece of advice for the forum. Don't try to argue a point. Most ppl take threads as an opportunity to advertise themselves at your expense rather than discuss a topic. Good luck in the game!

If everybody could post like you, this forum would be a much more productive place.

Also,

I do not believe we had this problem in CODEX. It seems like since they have made the maps tighter (in ambush) that we have this issue. And, there is no random spawn points in ambush......at least not for me. I have spawned in the same spot every time on the ambush games that I have played.

And Veronika, if you would like you can apply to 3dge of D4rkness in the game and we will gladly welcome you into our corp and show you the ropes and help you out with your game/gun play.

Was no one on your team using drop uplinks?

I don't have a team.

I might just do that, as long as you're aware that I don't have voice, and may not have it for a while

TLDR; the spawning system sucks. I just played a match where every spawn spawned me into someone's gunsights - I started spawning with starter fits after the first two deaths. Also, learn to spell - it's *dying, and I will probably stop dying when the spawning mechanics get fixed.

How about, instead of trolling legitimate complaints (especially considering that this has been acknowledged as a legitimate problem) with accusations of "crying on the forum", you go back to school and learn to spell. Also, learn something about balancing an FPS - this might be New Eden, but it's not EVE, it's an FPS and it NEEDS to be balanced, or people just won't play. You'll get an elite few, a loyal base of fanboys that will never give up telling everyone else how they suck, but when the game comes to an end because it doesn't have enough players, it'll be you and your elitist ilk that will be crying.

*Shrug* you've moaned for pages in this thread.

Work harder at moving and shooting. You've typed a great deal into the forums with little effect on your ability to survive a poor spawn situation.

WOW....once again mindless babble with nothing of great importance to say. Some people should learn to either say something nice and constructive or not say anything at all. In fact, it would do you some good to learn from your corp member HowDidThatTaste and take the civil way about things in giving advice.

"CIVILITY COSTS NOTHING" - people alone, not to mention this world would be better off with that in mind.

Keep in mind she's autistic and new to this game, so as you should know, it's a rookie stage with little in skills obtained at this time. The whole part of *Shrugging* and complaining about her moaning wasn't necessary. You could have pointed out that yes there are spawning problems and she'll get better at as time goes and she builds her skills.

Veronika-Once again, you are more than welcome to join our corp 30D 3dge of D4rkness as we will be there with you every step of the way with full support and full consideration of your inability to have a mic at this time. We'd be honored to have you as Maffia-Thug said ;-) You will always have a friend in us hun.

wow srsly op just spawn in skirmish already

and get over yourself no one wants t have a pssing constest with you we're just easily trolled by your walls of tears

It was advice for someone who sounded like they were taking another person's "HTFU" comment far too seriously.

I think the "LTFU" comment from your previous post is probably a more helpful response to all involved (myself included, unfortunately. Consider me suitably chastised).

Also, +1 to the LTFU comment. Lastly, I don't play EVE. I was providing an explanation for the term being less about actually insulting anyone and more about emphasising that New Eden is always going to be cruel and horrible.

you should see how we treat each other on IRC. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=22699&find=unread

1. Okay here is the problem everyone is neglecting. Even though the random spawns suck in that it can often get you killed before you can react, it can also spawn you behind enemies who have no clue you are there and can wipe out an entire squad with a few nades and MD fire, so it effects everyone equally.

In the scenario you describe, that might be cool for the guy spawning, but not so fun for the squad now screwed through no fault of their own.

Heh if 1 guy takes out an entire squad its entirely their own fault ambush is chaotic and they should be watching their back not all facing the same direction and bunched up.