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Who complained about the AR damage gap??

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Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising 886	Posted - 2012.12.17 12:51:00 - [1] - Quote I hope I'm misunderstanding the patch note that says, "reducing damage gap" between standard, adv, and proto weapons. I hope they're not bringing them closer to together. The 3hp damage gap between each level was perfect. That's why they are protoypes and advanced and the price difference is justified. why would you reduce the gap between the two??? You can kill people with the Assault Rifle and the GEK-38 effectively. Why try to bring the guns closer to the point where it doesn't make sense to buy a prototype??
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2866	Posted - 2012.12.17 12:56:00 - [2] - Quote Weapons like the Swarm launcher and few others had massive gaps between meta 1 to 5. These where the type sof weapons we complained about the most in terms of ramped up damage scales being way off where milita where way too weak and prototypes where way to strong. Hopefully the shift is only bringing the two ends closer to center or closer to high end intentioned balanace at max.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 3064	Posted - 2012.12.17 12:56:00 - [3] - Quote Not me, but I guess it doesn't affect me since I just use standard weapons. I don't think its a good idea, but I guess I'll have to play it to know for sure. Whether its good for gameplay or not, higher tier weapons need a big price cut, otherwise they won't be worth the extra cost.
empty souls Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising 3	Posted - 2012.12.17 13:07:00 - [4] - Quote Just dont understand....
Alldin Kan Imperfects Negative-Feedback 169	Posted - 2012.12.17 13:10:00 - [5] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: I hope I'm misunderstanding the patch note that says, "reducing damage gap" between standard, adv, and proto weapons. I hope they're not bringing them closer to together. The 3hp damage gap between each level was perfect. That's why they are protoypes and advanced and the price difference is justified. why would you reduce the gap between the two??? You can kill people with the Assault Rifle and the GEK-38 effectively. Why try to bring the guns closer to the point where it doesn't make sense to buy a prototype?? PREPARE YOUR BODY FOR THE INCOMING LASER LIGHT SHOWS.
xxwhitedevilxx M Maphia Clan Corporation CRONOS. 229	Posted - 2012.12.17 13:13:00 - [6] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: I hope I'm misunderstanding the patch note that says, "reducing damage gap" between standard, adv, and proto weapons. I hope they're not bringing them closer to together. The 3hp damage gap between each level was perfect. That's why they are protoypes and advanced and the price difference is justified. why would you reduce the gap between the two??? You can kill people with the Assault Rifle and the GEK-38 effectively. Why try to bring the guns closer to the point where it doesn't make sense to buy a prototype?? PREPARE YOUR BODY FOR THE INCOMING LASER LIGHT SHOWS. _
Sephirian Fair ZionTCD Legacy Rising 48	Posted - 2012.12.17 13:37:00 - [7] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: I hope I'm misunderstanding the patch note that says, "reducing damage gap" between standard, adv, and proto weapons. I hope they're not bringing them closer to together. The 3hp damage gap between each level was perfect. That's why they are protoypes and advanced and the price difference is justified. why would you reduce the gap between the two??? You can kill people with the Assault Rifle and the GEK-38 effectively. Why try to bring the guns closer to the point where it doesn't make sense to buy a prototype?? You realize that the damage gap between Standard and Prototype is not their base damage, but their effective ranges, don't you? Prototype gear has a far, far greater effective range than standard gear and is the reason why it is so much stronger. The 3 or 6 damage is absolutely negligible in this game. The thing that separated Prototype from Standard is the fact that its effective range is so much greater. They could make the damages all the same and people will still rush prototype. In a game where there is no ballistics and bullets just disappear after a set distance, having a greater effective range over you opponents means infinitely more than 6 base damage.
aden slayer ZionTCD Legacy Rising 407	Posted - 2012.12.17 13:41:00 - [8] - Quote my reaction.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 3064	Posted - 2012.12.17 13:53:00 - [9] - Quote Since the ARs are getting a recoil boost, the main reason to upgrade might be for less recoil (if higher tier has less recoil) and not for more damage. It might still be worth it to buy higher tier for ARs.
charlesnette dalari Creative Killers 159	Posted - 2012.12.17 13:56:00 - [10] - Quote Not a real fan of this myself if the effect is higher tier weapons damage decreases in any way. CCP just put AUR weapons on sale so of course I bought a bunch and I really hope they aren't now nerfing what I paid real money for that would be like buying a corvette and taking it to the shop and them saying well you got the vette on sale so we put a Yugo engine in it to make it more like other cars. I bought the vette precisely for the increased benefit same reason I buy aur higher tier weapons. Well if they do reduce the damage of higher tier weapons then that's one less revenue stream they will have from me.

KryptixX Imperfects Negative-Feedback 320	Posted - 2012.12.17 13:58:00 - [11] - Quote Sephirian Fair wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: I hope I'm misunderstanding the patch note that says, "reducing damage gap" between standard, adv, and proto weapons. I hope they're not bringing them closer to together. The 3hp damage gap between each level was perfect. That's why they are protoypes and advanced and the price difference is justified. why would you reduce the gap between the two??? You can kill people with the Assault Rifle and the GEK-38 effectively. Why try to bring the guns closer to the point where it doesn't make sense to buy a prototype?? You realize that the damage gap between Standard and Prototype is not their base damage, but their effective ranges, don't you? Prototype gear has a far, far greater effective range than standard gear and is the reason why it is so much stronger. The 3 or 6 damage is absolutely negligible in this game. The thing that separated Prototype from Standard is the fact that its effective range is so much greater. They could make the damages all the same and people will still rush prototype. In a game where there is no ballistics and bullets just disappear after a set distance, having a greater effective range over you opponents means infinitely more than 6 base damage. Not sure if serious... Since when does range increase from upgrading to adv/proto? That certainly wasnt the case with my HMG.
Jack Boost Zarena Family 194	Posted - 2012.12.17 14:47:00 - [12] - Quote Now militia AR is OP. After patch at last we can have chance.
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising 886	Posted - 2012.12.17 15:07:00 - [13] - Quote Sephirian Fair wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: I hope I'm misunderstanding the patch note that says, "reducing damage gap" between standard, adv, and proto weapons. I hope they're not bringing them closer to together. The 3hp damage gap between each level was perfect. That's why they are protoypes and advanced and the price difference is justified. why would you reduce the gap between the two??? You can kill people with the Assault Rifle and the GEK-38 effectively. Why try to bring the guns closer to the point where it doesn't make sense to buy a prototype?? You realize that the damage gap between Standard and Prototype is not their base damage, but their effective ranges, don't you? Prototype gear has a far, far greater effective range than standard gear and is the reason why it is so much stronger. The 3 or 6 damage is absolutely negligible in this game. The thing that separated Prototype from Standard is the fact that its effective range is so much greater. They could make the damages all the same and people will still rush prototype. In a game where there is no ballistics and bullets just disappear after a set distance, having a greater effective range over you opponents means infinitely more than 6 base damage. So you're saying that it has nothing to do with the base hp damage of each weapon but just their ranges? The difference between the guns are noticeable....when you upgrade to a GEK from an Assault Rifle, you can feel the difference. I don't even have to mention the Duvolle. But even if they nerfed the ranges, it is still a horrible "fix" because it wasn't broken. Upper tier weapons are supposed to be better. What I don't notice between the weapons is the effective range, however. There isn't a huge noticeable difference between all the guns except maybe damage...maybe. Accuracy, fire rate, are all relatively the same. Now, their nerfing the damge....wtf man? CCP get it together guys
Sentient Archon Red Star. 690	Posted - 2012.12.17 15:14:00 - [14] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: CCP get it together guys This is all because a bunch of noobs QQed and cried and whined about nerfing everything. Instead of having a noob only zone CCP goes ahead and nerfs all weapons. Hey guess what CCP! Noobs have always sucked, still suck and will always suck. Nerfs will never help them improve their game. They will always get destroyed. Just to prove my point I am going to destroy all noobs with militia weapons and teabag their sorry asses. Once you see them crying about militia weapons you will know that they will always suck. You dont send a kitty cat to the jungle man! You keep them at home! Just my 0.02 TeabagANoob
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising 886	Posted - 2012.12.17 15:29:00 - [15] - Quote I don't understand the purpose of it all....I mean, what is bringing them closer together supposed to do?? I'd rather they nerf the damage on the Duvolle or something than just trying to make all ARs more like militia. CCP, follow your gut....the AR damage system was fine! You're beginning to make me worry now because this is an outrage!!! There is no logical reason to do this.
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising 886	Posted - 2012.12.17 15:31:00 - [16] - Quote Sentient Archon wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: CCP get it together guys This is all because a bunch of noobs QQed and cried and whined about nerfing everything. Instead of having a noob only zone CCP goes ahead and nerfs all weapons. Hey guess what CCP! Noobs have always sucked, still suck and will always suck. Nerfs will never help them improve their game. They will always get destroyed. Just to prove my point I am going to destroy all noobs with militia weapons and teabag their sorry asses. Once you see them crying about militia weapons you will know that they will always suck. You dont send a kitty cat to the jungle man! You keep them at home! Just my 0.02 TeabagANoob Exactly....some people get consistently smoked with standard ARs, it wouldn't matter what they do. NOT TO MENTION that EVERYONE can get a duvolle. It isn't hard to obtain. It doesn't require a lvl 5 under a 10x multiplier. If a Duvolle is beating you, then go out and get one. It is open to all.
mikegunnz Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 425	Posted - 2012.12.17 15:45:00 - [17] - Quote The ARs were fine before, but whatever. I can live with the smaller gap, but the problem is that they need to reduce the price on the higher end ARs now. Pretty rediculous to have a 4k isk standard AR, and then a 90k isk duvolle that is hardly any better. They will become what the Heavy proto suit has become... obsolete, because they nerfed the suit, but not the price.
William HBonney Imperfects Negative-Feedback 318	Posted - 2012.12.17 15:46:00 - [18] - Quote My issue is that they did this to all weapons...and increased the mass driver clip....this game is becoming more and more noon friendly . The swarms were fine...militia gear is suppose to suck otherwise tanks would be worthless...I am very worried about the direction of things. And they brought a big nerf bat to the pistol....
The dark cloud Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 1060	Posted - 2012.12.17 15:52:00 - [19] - Quote Good this will have only a little effect on me. Standard laser damage 15HP (overheat at 21 rounds left) Advanced laser damage 15HP (no overheat) And recoil added too. So yes sucks for you scrubs. Payback is a *****.
Sephirian Fair ZionTCD Legacy Rising 48	Posted - 2012.12.17 16:06:00 - [20] - Quote KryptixX wrote: Sephirian Fair wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: I hope I'm misunderstanding the patch note that says, "reducing damage gap" between standard, adv, and proto weapons. I hope they're not bringing them closer to together. The 3hp damage gap between each level was perfect. That's why they are protoypes and advanced and the price difference is justified. why would you reduce the gap between the two??? You can kill people with the Assault Rifle and the GEK-38 effectively. Why try to bring the guns closer to the point where it doesn't make sense to buy a prototype?? You realize that the damage gap between Standard and Prototype is not their base damage, but their effective ranges, don't you? Prototype gear has a far, far greater effective range than standard gear and is the reason why it is so much stronger. The 3 or 6 damage is absolutely negligible in this game. The thing that separated Prototype from Standard is the fact that its effective range is so much greater. They could make the damages all the same and people will still rush prototype. In a game where there is no ballistics and bullets just disappear after a set distance, having a greater effective range over you opponents means infinitely more than 6 base damage. Not sure if serious... Since when does range increase from upgrading to adv/proto? That certainly wasnt the case with my HMG. Test it with a buddy again. There's a huge difference concerning HMG's. My brother runs HMG all the time. With the MH-82, he gets 100% damage efficiency up to about 42m. With the Boundless HMG, the 100% damage efficiency is around 55m. That is a HUGE increase. Assault Rifles experience a similar range increase with their higher grade gear.

fahrenheitM Pro Hic Immortalis RISE of LEGION 212	Posted - 2012.12.17 16:12:00 - [21] - Quote Sephirian Fair wrote: The thing that separated Prototype from Standard is the fact that its effective range is so much greater. It's a compilation of it all. To run with prototype weapon, you need a better suit to house it. You also need better skills, which provides more damage etc.. You compile it all together, and you get a huge gap in performance between a n00b with a Militia AR vs. a Prototype user. It's the entire painting together.
Mavado V Noriega SyNergy Gaming 2282	Posted - 2012.12.17 16:13:00 - [22] - Quote i hope prices would be adjusted personally i dont mind if prices are adjusted to suit
J'Jor Da'Wg KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 648	Posted - 2012.12.17 16:14:00 - [23] - Quote If this is true all proto gear needs a pretty big price cut to br anywhere near a 1 to 1 risk vs reward balance
Sephirian Fair ZionTCD Legacy Rising 48	Posted - 2012.12.17 16:16:00 - [24] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Sephirian Fair wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: I hope I'm misunderstanding the patch note that says, "reducing damage gap" between standard, adv, and proto weapons. I hope they're not bringing them closer to together. The 3hp damage gap between each level was perfect. That's why they are protoypes and advanced and the price difference is justified. why would you reduce the gap between the two??? You can kill people with the Assault Rifle and the GEK-38 effectively. Why try to bring the guns closer to the point where it doesn't make sense to buy a prototype?? You realize that the damage gap between Standard and Prototype is not their base damage, but their effective ranges, don't you? Prototype gear has a far, far greater effective range than standard gear and is the reason why it is so much stronger. The 3 or 6 damage is absolutely negligible in this game. The thing that separated Prototype from Standard is the fact that its effective range is so much greater. They could make the damages all the same and people will still rush prototype. In a game where there is no ballistics and bullets just disappear after a set distance, having a greater effective range over you opponents means infinitely more than 6 base damage. So you're saying that it has nothing to do with the base hp damage of each weapon but just their ranges? The difference between the guns are noticeable....when you upgrade to a GEK from an Assault Rifle, you can feel the difference. I don't even have to mention the Duvolle. But even if they nerfed the ranges, it is still a horrible "fix" because it wasn't broken. Upper tier weapons are supposed to be better. What I don't notice between the weapons is the effective range, however. There isn't a huge noticeable difference between all the guns except maybe damage...maybe. Accuracy, fire rate, are all relatively the same. Now, their nerfing the damge....wtf man? CCP get it together guys I'm sorry that I gave you that impression, but I am uncertain what the changes are going to be "exactly." I was commenting about that you were complaining only about the 3HP a round difference between the tiers of weapons and I stated that there are far greater differences between weapons than just base damage. The primary difference between tier of weapons is their longer effective range. If they are hitting just the base damages, it'll mean practically nothing, in my opinion. Greater effective range is probably the most important edge in a gunfight, outside of personal FPS skills. If they are hitting the effective ranges of the weapons, that might be too much compared to just hitting the base damages. And I know there is a big difference between each tier. It's laughable how strong the Duvolle is compared to Standard or even GEK. I get to hit my maximum damage for a good 15-20m further than GEK's and probably 25-30m further than Standards. The difference is huge and that makes or breaks gun fights. As for the nerf, I'm indifferent. I'm not for or against. It's happening, so just have to play and provide data for CCP.
Fivetimes Infinity Immobile Infantry 1086	Posted - 2012.12.17 16:36:00 - [25] - Quote They don't make changes because people complain about something. They make changes because it's their game, they're the people who do this stuff for a living, and they felt this was the right way to take the game (at least for the time being). You don't seriously think they're taking their cues from random people who post on their forums, do you?
Gaff Origami ZionTCD Legacy Rising 49	Posted - 2012.12.17 16:57:00 - [26] - Quote Not to state the obviously but while 3-6 dmg seems like a very small difference it does equate to 10-20%. What would it take to boost your shields and armor 20% above base to compensate for your reduce Militia AR damage output (all else being equal)? You would need to utilize at least 1 HP slot and 1 LP slot...probably more. I hope they dont nerf the "Officer" weapon variants.
Chinduko KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 19	Posted - 2012.12.17 18:36:00 - [27] - Quote I highly doubt the reduced damage gap will influence the guns effectiveness. It's the recoil that will be more influential. I hope it lowers the effectiveness more in line with other weapons.
Wakko03 Better Hide R Die 134	Posted - 2012.12.17 19:03:00 - [28] - Quote My Sharpshooter already has Recoil, and still can't use the AIM; I have been hipfiring for weeks now, and I finally got the hang of it.....I guess I will have to see what this actually means first hand & not just a description of the effect..... because going by the description so far has worked out so well for the SKILLS.
Moonracer2000 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 311	Posted - 2012.12.17 19:19:00 - [29] - Quote This is definitely something that will need to be tested and experienced in game before forming a real opinion. As stated there are a lot of variables that change in a weapon class other than damage, so I will not rule out that higher level weapons will still be better.
1CLIP 1KILL Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 87	Posted - 2012.12.17 19:29:00 - [30] - Quote I like it. Players have been complaining that the game is imbalanced. If you play other hardcore FPS games, you'll know how much even just slight stat changes matter. Players will gladly spend a lot of extra $ for corp battles for even just a slight advantage. Just because fewer players will join PUG games in proto gear isn't that big of a problem. I'm a little sad about pistol nerf, and with a larger MD mag, but maybe it'll be fine. I'll wait to try the changes before I comment for real on them I support the changes for now.

KingBabar Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 442	Posted - 2012.12.17 20:31:00 - [31] - Quote First off, fixing the ROF of the ttactical and breach AR is the only issue I have with the ARs. I do however think that this might be a good idea. Just look at the two ARs the Blindfire and the Killswitch. - They both do 33 damage - They have the same clip - Same reload speed - The Blindfire is 30 AUR and needs 47 CPU - The Killswitch is 50 AUR and needs 90 CPU The only stat I have found to be better on the gun that takes twice as much space, cost 66% more and needs higher skill tier level is a measly 0.5 better accuracy. Then why is the Killswitch on the most bought items list and the Blindfire is not I wonder... Some will see the higher cost and fittings and assume its better. Personally I notice this slight accuracy boost and I very much prefer the more expensive gun. Accuracy trumps damage in the hands of a skilled player, just look at MAG.... This might actually be a good thing, Im not sure but Im not pessimistic about this at all.
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders Red Rock Consortium 295	Posted - 2012.12.17 20:33:00 - [32] - Quote J'Jor Da'Wg wrote: If this is true all proto gear needs a pretty big price cut to br anywhere near a 1 to 1 risk vs reward balance That is not how CCP rolls. You pay a premium to be just a little bit better.
Berserker007 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 206	Posted - 2012.12.17 20:49:00 - [33] - Quote KingBabar wrote: First off, fixing the ROF of the ttactical and breach AR is the only issue I have with the ARs. I do however think that this might be a good idea. Just look at the two ARs the Blindfire and the Killswitch. - They both do 33 damage - They have the same clip - Same reload speed - The Blindfire is 30 AUR and needs 47 CPU - The Killswitch is 50 AUR and needs 90 CPU The only stat I have found to be better on the gun that takes twice as much space, cost 66% more and needs higher skill tier level is a measly 0.5 better accuracy. Then why is the Killswitch on the most bought items list and the Blindfire is not I wonder... Some will see the higher cost and fittings and assume its better. Personally I notice this slight accuracy boost and I very much prefer the more expensive gun. Accuracy trumps damage in the hands of a skilled player, just look at MAG.... This might actually be a good thing, Im not sure but Im not pessimistic about this at all. this might be a description error; as last build and all previous builds it has been equal to the duvolle at 36damage
Unit-775 Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 36	Posted - 2012.12.17 20:52:00 - [34] - Quote Fivetimes Infinity wrote: They don't make changes because people complain about something. They make changes because it's their game, they're the people who do this stuff for a living, and they felt this was the right way to take the game (at least for the time being). You don't seriously think they're taking their cues from random people who post on their forums, do you? after nearly 8 years playing EVE i have to say : YES THEY DO !!!! first there is whine on the Forums, then the Nerf hammer hits so hard, turning everything it hits into a pile of junk. after years the pile of junk will get some buff, but only if your really lucky. thats EVE. Lucky we are still into game development and the buffs come faster in Dust than in EVE. this isn't adapt or die its go whine on the forums to get it nerfed. if only the would apply the nerf hammer with more control and not smash everything with it.
Ten-Sidhe Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 414	Posted - 2012.12.17 21:31:00 - [35] - Quote Range gap is not drastic, from the [GUIDE] Weapon Ranges & Optimals (First turrets added) thread. militia ar optimal 35m, max 79m Duvolle ar optimal 39m, max 87m 11.4% more optimal range and 10.1% more maximum, and 20% more damage. Proto guns may need a price reduction to go with this, but if they are the right price they are still worth buying. For officer guns, leave them but make them rarer, and put new drop only guns in between that are more common.
Cerebral Wolf Jr Immobile Infantry 760	Posted - 2012.12.17 21:47:00 - [36] - Quote Maybe time i rolled something other than a AR/Assault class this time. Maybe time to go Logi/Mass driver.
Gunner Visari Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 163	Posted - 2012.12.17 21:57:00 - [37] - Quote This might seems silly and completely wrong but the damage reduction is stated for all "handheld" weapons. Granted every weapon is a handheld weapon, however if you look at the descriptions of the the weaspons AR's categorized as Infantry Light Weapon, Pistols/Knives are categorized as Sidearm, and everything else is described as "handheld" weapon, with no weapons being described as a "heavy" at least in my enforcer build, perhaps heavy class has all the heavy weapons. Anyway the point is given the description of these items in the beta client is it entirely possible that the damage change is coming to all the SMGs, MD's, Snipers, Shottys, etc and not the AR's. Granted i am basing this off the show info information of each weapon, if you go by the skill menu list than obviously all those weapons above include the side-arms and AR are all "handheld" weaspons.
Cerebral Wolf Jr Immobile Infantry 760	Posted - 2012.12.17 22:09:00 - [38] - Quote Fivetimes Infinity wrote: They don't make changes because people complain about something. They make changes because it's their game, they're the people who do this stuff for a living, and they felt this was the right way to take the game (at least for the time being). You don't seriously think they're taking their cues from random people who post on their forums, do you? You know you're trying to reason with pubbies right?...
fenrir storm Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 314	Posted - 2012.12.17 22:13:00 - [39] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Sentient Archon wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: CCP get it together guys This is all because a bunch of noobs QQed and cried and whined about nerfing everything. Instead of having a noob only zone CCP goes ahead and nerfs all weapons. Hey guess what CCP! Noobs have always sucked, still suck and will always suck. Nerfs will never help them improve their game. They will always get destroyed. Just to prove my point I am going to destroy all noobs with militia weapons and teabag their sorry asses. Once you see them crying about militia weapons you will know that they will always suck. You dont send a kitty cat to the jungle man! You keep them at home! Just my 0.02 TeabagANoob Exactly....some people get consistently smoked with standard ARs, it wouldn't matter what they do. NOT TO MENTION that EVERYONE can get a duvolle. It isn't hard to obtain. It doesn't require a lvl 5 under a 10x multiplier. If a Duvolle is beating you, then go out and get one. It is open to all. If your both so skillfull why complain about the change
Laurent Cazaderon Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 1155	Posted - 2012.12.17 22:16:00 - [40] - Quote Sephirian Fair wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: I hope I'm misunderstanding the patch note that says, "reducing damage gap" between standard, adv, and proto weapons. I hope they're not bringing them closer to together. The 3hp damage gap between each level was perfect. That's why they are protoypes and advanced and the price difference is justified. why would you reduce the gap between the two??? You can kill people with the Assault Rifle and the GEK-38 effectively. Why try to bring the guns closer to the point where it doesn't make sense to buy a prototype?? You realize that the damage gap between Standard and Prototype is not their base damage, but their effective ranges, don't you? Prototype gear has a far, far greater effective range than standard gear and is the reason why it is so much stronger. The 3 or 6 damage is absolutely negligible in this game. The thing that separated Prototype from Standard is the fact that its effective range is so much greater. They could make the damages all the same and people will still rush prototype. In a game where there is no ballistics and bullets just disappear after a set distance, having a greater effective range over you opponents means infinitely more than 6 base damage. wrong. check Musta torius thread stickied in the locker room where there are all range and optimal range. There aint a good enough difference between standard and proto AR to justify the difference in damage. In fact, there's none. The 3 HP difference added to all the skill multiplier and damage boost is what makes a proto better than a standard. The lower you decrease base damage, the lower you decrease multiplier's impact and benefit. The duller you make the game where everyone will just tank instead of trying to max damage. Thus you can end up killing the variety in fits on the battlefield. Now, let's just see the actual changes. EDIT: here are stats from Musta's thread : Militia Assault Rifle Max Range: 79m Optimal Range: 1 - 35m (47 maxed sharpshooter) Meta Level: 0 Assault Rifle Max Range: 78m Optimal Range: 1 - 35m Meta Level: 1 'bllindfire' Assault Rifle Max Range: 81m Optimal Range: 1 - 37m Meta Level: 3 GEK-38 Assault Rifle Max Range: 83m Optimal Range: 1 - 37m Meta Level: 5 GK-13 Assault Rifle Max Range: 83m Optimal Range: 1 - 37m Meta Level: 6 'Killswitch' GEK-38 Assault Rifle Max Range: 92m Optimal Range: 1 - 41m Meta Level: 7 Duvolle Assault Rifle Max Range: 87m Optimal Range: 1 - 39m (53m max sharpshooter) Meta Level: 8 See. difference in optimal is minimal. As you can only get a 35% (or 40) to those stats, it stays very little. In the end, you'll get 6m difference in optimal between a standard and a proto. Add to that a reduced damage gap and difference risks to vanish.

Fivetimes Infinity Immobile Infantry 1086	Posted - 2012.12.17 22:49:00 - [41] - Quote Unit-775 wrote: after nearly 8 years playing EVE i have to say : YES THEY DO !!!! This isn't EVE, happy to help.
Cerebral Wolf Jr Immobile Infantry 760	Posted - 2012.12.17 22:53:00 - [42] - Quote Unit-775 wrote: Fivetimes Infinity wrote: They don't make changes because people complain about something. They make changes because it's their game, they're the people who do this stuff for a living, and they felt this was the right way to take the game (at least for the time being). You don't seriously think they're taking their cues from random people who post on their forums, do you? after nearly 8 years playing EVE i have to say : YES THEY DO !!!! Shut up you utter muppet, the stuff CCP has tweaked so far as been for testing of balance reasons and it's all been perfectly reasonable, they may have been a little heavy handed sometimes in the nerfs etc they have applied but the reasoning behind it has always been pretty sound. You're clearly a bit mental.
Goat of Dover Shadow Company HQ 161	Posted - 2012.12.17 23:26:00 - [43] - Quote Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote: Maybe time i rolled something other than a AR/Assault class this time. Maybe time to go Logi/Mass driver. I want to say that I was Logi/Mass driver before the patches were posted. lol
Cerebral Wolf Jr Immobile Infantry 760	Posted - 2012.12.17 23:51:00 - [44] - Quote Goat of Dover wrote: Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote: Maybe time i rolled something other than a AR/Assault class this time. Maybe time to go Logi/Mass driver. I want to say that I was Logi/Mass driver before the patches were posted. lol I'm a firm believer that the MD's are really quite over powered right now and have been for some time but i've kept my mouth shut because i've not tested them personally so i figure now's the time. Especially with them getting a buff in the next build and if the stuff that i've talked about with Sha and Jenza is even half true they don't need the buff they are getting.
KingBabar Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 442	Posted - 2012.12.18 00:01:00 - [45] - Quote Berserker007 wrote: KingBabar wrote: First off, fixing the ROF of the ttactical and breach AR is the only issue I have with the ARs. I do however think that this might be a good idea. Just look at the two ARs the Blindfire and the Killswitch. - They both do 33 damage - They have the same clip - Same reload speed - The Blindfire is 30 AUR and needs 47 CPU - The Killswitch is 50 AUR and needs 90 CPU The only stat I have found to be better on the gun that takes twice as much space, cost 66% more and needs higher skill tier level is a measly 0.5 better accuracy. Then why is the Killswitch on the most bought items list and the Blindfire is not I wonder... Some will see the higher cost and fittings and assume its better. Personally I notice this slight accuracy boost and I very much prefer the more expensive gun. Accuracy trumps damage in the hands of a skilled player, just look at MAG.... This might actually be a good thing, Im not sure but Im not pessimistic about this at all. this might be a description error; as last build and all previous builds it has been equal to the duvolle at 36damage You might be right, it says 33 at least. And perhaps you mix it up with that other 36 damage AUR gun they removed, I forgot the name and cant be bothered to turn the game on. Its still in the top 5 list even though it got removed in the middle of the third build I believe.
Sleepy Zan Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 2046	Posted - 2012.12.18 00:04:00 - [46] - Quote lol AR cry threads, the build hasn't even dropped yet this is only the beginning
Goat of Dover Shadow Company HQ 161	Posted - 2012.12.18 00:07:00 - [47] - Quote Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote: Goat of Dover wrote: Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote: Maybe time i rolled something other than a AR/Assault class this time. Maybe time to go Logi/Mass driver. I want to say that I was Logi/Mass driver before the patches were posted. lol I'm a firm believer that the MD's are really quite over powered right now and have been for some time but i've kept my mouth shut because i've not tested them personally so i figure now's the time. Especially with them getting a buff in the next build and if the stuff that i've talked about with Sha and Jenza is even half true they don't need the buff they are getting. Call it OP in retrospect to what. Yes they are very good weapons when you skill into them and know how to use them but it requires a lot of skill to use. A lot of people say just shoot it at peoples feet and you will win. The trick is to hit there legs or the ground near them and not hit yourself as the radius increase at each skill level and tier of the weapon. Also its rounds actually have travel time so must really account for movement, and it is weak against shields which everyone is stacking in this build. It is a hard weapon to use I kill myself a bunch in CQC. Just now that I have put some time into I have learned how to use it efficiently. But it will be OP depending on whether it gets a buff to mag size or ammo carried(which it needed).
Icy Tiger Universal Allies Inc. 1026	Posted - 2012.12.18 00:12:00 - [48] - Quote Sleepy Zan wrote: lol AR cry threads, the build hasn't even dropped yet this is only the beginning Don't worry, we haven't seen snipers yet. Although, this is looking great already.
Goat of Dover Shadow Company HQ 161	Posted - 2012.12.18 00:13:00 - [49] - Quote I don't understand why people don't take into account the dps of an AR. Yes there is only a buff of 3 damage per tier, but take this into account over 10 to 15 rounds to the chest that is 30 to 45 damage. That is a good amount since it is a the difference in an enhanced to complex shield mod. Man if you put a complex damage mod now you are looking at 60 to 90 damage that is a whole lot of damage. So maybe adjusting it will be good maybe it will bad time will only tell just take into consideration the dps of the weapon not the difference in the damage per shot.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2866	Posted - 2012.12.18 00:42:00 - [50] - Quote I just find it amazing everyone thinks it the ar they are talking about. Have you considered maybe the swarm launcher and other huge massive ramp up damage weapons from meta 1-5 getting adjusted?

steadyhand amarr Imperfects Negative-Feedback 338	Posted - 2012.12.18 00:47:00 - [51] - Quote I used mass drivers before they were cool B-)
Goat of Dover Shadow Company HQ 161	Posted - 2012.12.18 00:50:00 - [52] - Quote steadyhand amarr wrote: I used mass drivers before they were cool B-) Me to. I started two weeks before before codex. Tried the AR and then fell in love with the mass driver, and then they made it better when codex came out. i was so excited.
l8erXD Bragian Order Amarr Empire 33	Posted - 2012.12.18 00:56:00 - [53] - Quote Goat of Dover wrote: steadyhand amarr wrote: I used mass drivers before they were cool B-) Me to. I started two weeks before before codex. Tried the AR and then fell in love with the mass driver, and then they made it better when codex came out. i was so excited. The mass driver was unproficient when I got it. I started leveling up the skillbook and I got a lot better with it until after a few minutes it glitched on me and the shots I threw were passing through and not even damaging them.
Goat of Dover Shadow Company HQ 161	Posted - 2012.12.18 02:12:00 - [54] - Quote l8erXD wrote: Goat of Dover wrote: steadyhand amarr wrote: I used mass drivers before they were cool B-) Me to. I started two weeks before before codex. Tried the AR and then fell in love with the mass driver, and then they made it better when codex came out. i was so excited. The mass driver was unproficient when I got it. I started leveling up the skillbook and I got a lot better with it until after a few minutes it glitched on me and the shots I threw were passing through and not even damaging them. Come on what about when you get the animation like you shot the round but no explosion and the round is still in the clip thats my favorite. Scare the **** out of people, but that is it really. lol
RolyatDerTeufel D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION 1648	Posted - 2012.12.18 02:57:00 - [55] - Quote Sleepy Zan wrote: lol AR cry threads, the build hasn't even dropped yet this is only the beginning ^that. I use the AR's as primary and I don't even care about the changes till they happen. "Who complained about the..." AR changes before the AR's were changed?
Elijah Sol' Dzusaki Onward Defrosted Tuna Team 485	Posted - 2012.12.18 03:05:00 - [56] - Quote I never complained about the damage gap but I thought about it... But I do not see what's the big deal good players shouldn't be effected by mere damage values...
Pent'noir Algintal Core Gallente Federation 61	Posted - 2012.12.18 03:32:00 - [57] - Quote It brings up some concerns for me and my swarms. It was just 1-2 missles more. What are they going to do, make that them into a mini missle. Ppl already don't skill for swarms because there wasn't that much difference and consider it a secondary or worse role.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2866	Posted - 2012.12.18 04:05:00 - [58] - Quote Elijah Sol' Dzusaki wrote: I never complained about the damage gap but I thought about it... But I do not see what's the big deal good players shouldn't be effected by mere damage values... ^This I run around in milita gear because mostly Im locked to it can still manage decent in all things except for AV roles.
fred orpaul Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 211	Posted - 2012.12.18 04:38:00 - [59] - Quote oh for the love of god thIs is ******. all of you shut the up. God forbid any one nerf your precious AR the one gun that has only gotten more powerful while every other gun has been nerfed. Hell heavies were *** useless for two builds because of the nerfs that made HMGs unusable. There is a reason you saw ARs on the field more then any other weapon, they are OP as . yes you are probably right this may be an over nerf, but at least wait to *** till you actually have some play time to prove that. CCP nerfs stuff and brings it back to a reasonable level, so stop your bitching and if its unusable well I guess you will have to use another weapon like the rest of us.
fred orpaul Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 211	Posted - 2012.12.18 04:42:00 - [60] - Quote Fivetimes Infinity wrote: They don't make changes because people complain about something. They make changes because it's their game, they're the people who do this stuff for a living, and they felt this was the right way to take the game (at least for the time being). You don't seriously think they're taking their cues from random people who post on their forums, do you? you gotta remember a lot of these people came from mag were the company did listen to them and it ruined the game. that said im gonna have to trust ccp

Cerebral Wolf Jr Immobile Infantry 760	Posted - 2012.12.18 05:30:00 - [61] - Quote Pent'noir wrote: It brings up some concerns for me and my swarms. It was just 1-2 missles more. What are they going to do, make that them into a mini missle. Ppl already don't skill for swarms because there wasn't that much difference and consider it a secondary or worse role. Swarms are getting buffed though. Swarms has been my secondary build all along. I enjoy them.
Trevak Shi Nephilim Fedaykin 38	Posted - 2012.12.18 05:45:00 - [62] - Quote Ten-Sidhe wrote: Range gap is not drastic, from the [GUIDE] Weapon Ranges & Optimals (First turrets added) thread. militia ar optimal 35m, max 79m Duvolle ar optimal 39m, max 87m 11.4% more optimal range and 10.1% more maximum, and 20% more damage. Proto guns may need a price reduction to go with this, but if they are the right price they are still worth buying. For officer guns, leave them but make them rarer, and put new drop only guns in between that are more common. So what happened to the Stormside Roden and the Compact GU-15??
Cerebral Wolf Jr Immobile Infantry 760	Posted - 2012.12.18 06:19:00 - [63] - Quote Trevak Shi wrote: Ten-Sidhe wrote: Range gap is not drastic, from the [GUIDE] Weapon Ranges & Optimals (First turrets added) thread. militia ar optimal 35m, max 79m Duvolle ar optimal 39m, max 87m 11.4% more optimal range and 10.1% more maximum, and 20% more damage. Proto guns may need a price reduction to go with this, but if they are the right price they are still worth buying. For officer guns, leave them but make them rarer, and put new drop only guns in between that are more common. So what happened to the Stormside Roden and the Compact GU-15?? removed for balancing.
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising 886	Posted - 2012.12.18 09:09:00 - [64] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I just find it amazing everyone thinks it the ar they are talking about. Have you considered maybe the swarm launcher and other huge massive ramp up damage weapons from meta 1-5 getting adjusted? It doesn't matter...it actually says all handheld weapons. But my point still stands across the board....what is the point in closing the gap? They are all fine as they are. There are supposed to be noticeable differences between the tiers
Enkidu Camuel Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 69	Posted - 2012.12.18 09:22:00 - [65] - Quote This what CCP Wang said about the damage gap: CCP Cmdr Wang wrote: This is a reduction on the amount of damage done by weapons in the same class. Previously, the difference in damage output was very wide depending on the meta level of the weapon and we wanted to narrow that.
fred orpaul Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 211	Posted - 2012.12.18 10:54:00 - [66] - Quote Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote: Goat of Dover wrote: Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote: Maybe time i rolled something other than a AR/Assault class this time. Maybe time to go Logi/Mass driver. I want to say that I was Logi/Mass driver before the patches were posted. lol I'm a firm believer that the MD's are really quite over powered right now and have been for some time but i've kept my mouth shut because i've not tested them personally so i figure now's the time. Especially with them getting a buff in the next build and if the stuff that i've talked about with Sha and Jenza is even half true they don't need the buff they are getting. as a user of MDs they are OP but scale really badly. they rely on you hitting your target with a direct hit every single time to maintain a kill per clip on anything over a std suit. that said any thing under that is pretty screwed. not really sure how to balance them.
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising 886	Posted - 2012.12.18 12:11:00 - [67] - Quote Enkidu Camuel wrote: This what CCP Wang said about the damage gap: CCP Cmdr Wang wrote: This is a reduction on the amount of damage done by weapons in the same class. Previously, the difference in damage output was very wide depending on the meta level of the weapon and we wanted to narrow that. Yeah, I read that....but for which weapon does this hold true? The ARs are fine, the HMGs are fine, swarms carries the same damage per rocket but the upper tiers has 1 or two more rockets (which is absolutely fine). You are paying 3x and more ISK for upper tier weapons than the previous class......why should the guns hit the same. They were balanced before and noone complained about them. CCP blindsided us with this "fix" and it wasn't even broken. They need to actually fix broken stuff like the killswitch GEK stats. Or, the framerate dropping and smoother movement
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising 886	Posted - 2012.12.18 12:16:00 - [68] - Quote fred orpaul wrote: Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote: Goat of Dover wrote: Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote: Maybe time i rolled something other than a AR/Assault class this time. Maybe time to go Logi/Mass driver. I want to say that I was Logi/Mass driver before the patches were posted. lol I'm a firm believer that the MD's are really quite over powered right now and have been for some time but i've kept my mouth shut because i've not tested them personally so i figure now's the time. Especially with them getting a buff in the next build and if the stuff that i've talked about with Sha and Jenza is even half true they don't need the buff they are getting. as a user of MDs they are OP but scale really badly. they rely on you hitting your target with a direct hit every single time to maintain a kill per clip on anything over a std suit. that said any thing under that is pretty screwed. not really sure how to balance them. No, they don't.....you don't need a direct hit for any suit. That gun requires you to get caught in the splash damage range and that's all. And as you level up, the splash damage is so ridiculous that you really don't have to aim with the upper tier MDs. The only thing I ask for MDs is that they reload after every grenade. You shouldn't be able to spam 4 and 6 grenades at a time with the splash damage and range that it has. This weapon requires the least amount of skill to use.
Kaughst The Nommo Insurance Fraud. 3	Posted - 2012.12.18 12:40:00 - [69] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: fred orpaul wrote: Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote: Goat of Dover wrote: Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote: Maybe time i rolled something other than a AR/Assault class this time. Maybe time to go Logi/Mass driver. I want to say that I was Logi/Mass driver before the patches were posted. lol I'm a firm believer that the MD's are really quite over powered right now and have been for some time but i've kept my mouth shut because i've not tested them personally so i figure now's the time. Especially with them getting a buff in the next build and if the stuff that i've talked about with Sha and Jenza is even half true they don't need the buff they are getting. as a user of MDs they are OP but scale really badly. they rely on you hitting your target with a direct hit every single time to maintain a kill per clip on anything over a std suit. that said any thing under that is pretty screwed. not really sure how to balance them. No, they don't.....you don't need a direct hit for any suit. That gun requires you to get caught in the splash damage range and that's all. And as you level up, the splash damage is so ridiculous that you really don't have to aim with the upper tier MDs. The only thing I ask for MDs is that they reload after every grenade. You shouldn't be able to spam 4 and 6 grenades at a time with the splash damage and range that it has. This weapon requires the least amount of skill to use. For a weapon that is rarely seen or used as apposed to the AR I hardly see it as OP. Frequently anyone who does make that statement has never used or has little experience. Besides that there is a counter, the use of high shields counter the explosive effect, if you do not skill into that it is only your fault.
Enji Elric Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Zombie Ninja Space Bears 176	Posted - 2012.12.18 13:07:00 - [70] - Quote every time i read the title to the start of this thread, I want to answer.............. Your mom..



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