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Telcontar Dunedain
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
328
|
Posted - 2012.12.13 17:30:00 -
[61] - Quote
Captain-Awesome wrote:I would prefer a system that hands out items based on the individual kill not on the team as a whole: damage at certain points of the body affect the damage on the potential drop items: Quote: headshot damage = high slot modules upper body (stomach and up) shot damage = low slot modules and weapons lower body (hips and below) shot damage = equipment and grenades
A = Shield repair B = Assault Riffle C = Armor plate
playerA = A,B,C
playerB hits playerA with 75 damage (head) playerC hits playerA with 25 (head)
(the damage is also used as their % chance to win possible loot)
looters = playerB, playerC
FOR EACH item IN playerA item.damage = damage recieved in area
if item.damage < 70 (this is the variable CCP deams fair to being broken beyond repair) looters.winner = (do calculation for item assigning) item.lootable = true item.looter = looters.winner end if NEXT
from here the player is then assigned the item fairly. This means those who did absolutely nothing the whole match or simply wasn't involved in the kill can not reap the rewards from your efforts. Something that would really **** me off if my forge gun kills downed vehicles.
Interesting idea with the head shots versus body shots affecting the drop. I'll have to think about that one a bit.
I would like to see a -squad- based looting system. Ie you use the existing contrib system to determine who gets a direct roll but then that your squad should have a chance at the same loot as well. Perhaps with a double roll ie contributors first then a second roll for the winners squad.
Logibro or AV situations sort of require it. |
Captain-Awesome
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
349
|
Posted - 2012.12.13 17:52:00 -
[62] - Quote
well that does leave it open to people who attend and don't do anything, a couple of times I've gone afk a whole match (accident sometimes, sometimes not), It just doesn't sit well that someone who had no role in me downing the enemy gets my loot. in other mmo games, only those involved get to roll.
< forger gunner. means I would get vehicle loot. But I do get the odd infantry kill too ;) ;) |
Octavian Vetiver
Dog Nation United Relativity Alliance
152
|
Posted - 2012.12.13 18:04:00 -
[63] - Quote
I like idea of items taking damage and all that so loot is not 100% certainty. And making it so loot is only based on what was on the player or combatants. I don't agree that vehicles that get killed should be salvagable. Except beyond possible parts. As for crew members in the vehicle. They should be toast if they die in it. Since fuel cell or reactor like the vehicles have would leave nothing usable after it cooks off. |
Telcontar Dunedain
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
328
|
Posted - 2012.12.13 18:31:00 -
[64] - Quote
Captain-Awesome wrote:well that does leave it open to people who attend and don't do anything, a couple of times I've gone afk a whole match (accident sometimes, sometimes not), It just doesn't sit well that someone who had no role in me downing the enemy gets my loot. in other mmo games, only those involved get to roll.
< forger gunner. means I would get vehicle loot. But I do get the odd infantry kill too ;) ;)
Protip - don't squad with useless players.
This game needs to be balanced and designed around the idea that squads are organized.
Once lowsec and nullsec come to the game even hisec will change a lot. |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
1012
|
Posted - 2012.12.13 18:33:00 -
[65] - Quote
Telcontar Dunedain wrote:EnglishSnake wrote:Telcontar Dunedain wrote:...
You are the reason the system needs to change. Sure i would System is fine Be funny if all one side comes out in proto gear, other side in milita basically farming the otherside out of proto items Are you really gonna stand ther for a 1min and use a salvager on a dead body to get loot? corse not your 'pro' and thats DUSTs way of mining for noobs to do This randoms loot is the best way tbh because the game aint going to remeber who you killed and what you will get just for 1 person then go and times that by a 1000players and then again if we have 10000 players and so on Plus the bodies burn up after death and not all mods survive this end so you cant pick and choose you get what your given Did you even read my OP? I'm not suggesting salvagers on field, just that the loot pool come from the dead players instead of being random. Try to think of the game as it will be, ie hisec/lowsec and then nullsec. Think about risk/reward.
It will always be random anyways, the bodies burn up mods are lost and you get what you get, it barely a change from the current system we already have which is fine except it needs tweeking so we get all mods dropsuit and vehicle mods
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Telcontar Dunedain
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
328
|
Posted - 2012.12.13 18:47:00 -
[66] - Quote
EnglishSnake wrote:Telcontar Dunedain wrote:
Try to think of the game as it will be, ie hisec/lowsec and then nullsec. Think about risk/reward.
It will always be random anyways, the bodies burn up mods are lost and you get what you get, it barely a change from the current system we already have which is fine except it needs tweeking so we get all mods dropsuit and vehicle mods
Do you know how Eve works?
What I'm suggesting is basically Eve but with some compromises for the lobby shooter that we play in Dust514. |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
1012
|
Posted - 2012.12.13 18:53:00 -
[67] - Quote
Telcontar Dunedain wrote:EnglishSnake wrote:Telcontar Dunedain wrote:
Try to think of the game as it will be, ie hisec/lowsec and then nullsec. Think about risk/reward.
It will always be random anyways, the bodies burn up mods are lost and you get what you get, it barely a change from the current system we already have which is fine except it needs tweeking so we get all mods dropsuit and vehicle mods Do you know how Eve works? What I'm suggesting is basically Eve but with some compromises for the lobby shooter that we play in Dust514.
Lock target shoot target and get random loot from ship which is random because you never know what survives and then use a salavger T2 so that you may get lucky again and get T2 salvage or some good salavge in general
Either way on EVE it works but can i see this working on DUST in a similar way? no tbh it would be really too much info to process i think if you have at least 10000players shooting each other in different matches and just say they get 10 kills each game has to remember what loadouts and mods/weapons they had on and what mods the players will get as loot
Too complicated, it was better a couple of builds ago when we got all kinds of loot and not just guns even tho it was random it worked |
charlesnette dalari
Creative Killers
159
|
Posted - 2012.12.13 19:30:00 -
[68] - Quote
While some things I agree would be nice like the loot table being generated from the enemy deaths I keep in my mind that the more complex a mechanic is something somewhere else must be made less complex since we are playing a console game not a PC based game like eve. The hardware limitations mean we all may have our wish list but we must remember the developers must allocate resources especially with what is soon last Gen hardware. So for me I can think of at least a dozen other areas where I would rather see hardware resources and developer time spent before launch, like maybe the number of players in a match or squad size or graphics enhancements rather than loot tables derived from reality.
Edit
Oh and since this thread is so important to the success of dust and therefore CCP I think it should be stickied and then a rule added to the forum rules that everyone should read this thread before posting any new threads of their own. I swear the success of dust and CCP absolutely depends on everyone reading this thread!
My edit is ALMOST as melodramatic as your thread title. :) |
Telcontar Dunedain
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
328
|
Posted - 2012.12.13 20:14:00 -
[69] - Quote
charlesnette dalari wrote:While some things I agree would be nice like the loot table being generated from the enemy deaths I keep in my mind that the more complex a mechanic is something somewhere else must be made less complex since we are playing a console game not a PC based game like eve. The hardware limitations mean we all may have our wish list but we must remember the developers must allocate resources especially with what is soon last Gen hardware. So for me I can think of at least a dozen other areas where I would rather see hardware resources and developer time spent before launch, like maybe the number of players in a match or squad size or graphics enhancements rather than loot tables derived from reality.
Edit
Oh and since this thread is so important to the success of dust and therefore CCP I think it should be stickied and then a rule added to the forum rules that everyone should read this thread before posting any new threads of their own. I swear the success of dust and CCP absolutely depends on everyone reading this thread!
My edit is ALMOST as melodramatic as your thread title. :)
This is about 2k of memory on the server side fwiw.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilobytes |
BASSMEANT
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
109
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 00:01:00 -
[70] - Quote
"the current loot system is a temporary stepping stone to what we'll get in future. of course it's not perfect, but it's better than nothing"
it's not a loot system. jesus.
and the solution is simple:
if i kill you, and i get to your corpse in time and i "hit x to loot" and i don't get killed, then i get what you had in your kit at the time and you lose that gear from your inventory, permanently.
that's looting.
anything else is just console milk for the veal.
no i don't expect this game to be finished right now.
i do expect this game to be what they hyped it to be back way back before the betas started.
which it is not.
Peace B |
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Telcontar Dunedain
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
328
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 00:31:00 -
[71] - Quote
BASSMEANT wrote:"the current loot system is a temporary stepping stone to what we'll get in future. of course it's not perfect, but it's better than nothing"
it's not a loot system. jesus.
and the solution is simple:
if i kill you, and i get to your corpse in time and i "hit x to loot" and i don't get killed, then i get what you had in your kit at the time and you lose that gear from your inventory, permanently.
that's looting.
anything else is just console milk for the veal.
no i don't expect this game to be finished right now.
i do expect this game to be what they hyped it to be back way back before the betas started.
which it is not.
Peace B
I'm actually cool with this solution but not without friendly fire.
If some scrub tries to take my loot I can solve the problem.
In other news this is how Darkfall works and it's awesome.
|
charlesnette dalari
Creative Killers
159
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 02:38:00 -
[72] - Quote
Telcontar Dunedain wrote:charlesnette dalari wrote:While some things I agree would be nice like the loot table being generated from the enemy deaths I keep in my mind that the more complex a mechanic is something somewhere else must be made less complex since we are playing a console game not a PC based game like eve. The hardware limitations mean we all may have our wish list but we must remember the developers must allocate resources especially with what is soon last Gen hardware. So for me I can think of at least a dozen other areas where I would rather see hardware resources and developer time spent before launch, like maybe the number of players in a match or squad size or graphics enhancements rather than loot tables derived from reality.
Edit
Oh and since this thread is so important to the success of dust and therefore CCP I think it should be stickied and then a rule added to the forum rules that everyone should read this thread before posting any new threads of their own. I swear the success of dust and CCP absolutely depends on everyone reading this thread!
My edit is ALMOST as melodramatic as your thread title. :) This is about 2k of memory on the server side fwiw. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilobytes
The amount of memory used on the server side has nothing to do with my post but since you think its simple based upon the amount of memory it takes tell me which sounds simpler a single loot table that doesn't change per match or one that changes each time a kill is registered (I could be wrong but you quoting wikipedia for how much memory you THINK this would take leads me to the safe assumption you have never programmed before.).We had an event some time back where we tried to reach 1 million kills over the course of a weekend I think it was. So lets just assume your 2kb calculation is correct. now take your 2 kilobytes times 1 million for the individual loot tables needed to be tracked per kill over just that weekend during the beta not after release. Now figure the server cycles necessary to calculate the chances to get the loot by the person on the winning team not to mention the CPU in the ps3 must also generate some processing cycles as well for it to work.
So back to my point what is more important the loot system right now or core game mechanics like hit detection, which I would rather my ps3 CPU calculating since if I can't hit anyone I don't get loot anyway. This is all a matter of prioritizing what is TRULY game breaking versus what we may all like to see at some point but it is far from as important as many other things that need to be completed before launch. Stay focused guys we need to concentrate our testing and feedback on what's most important not our wish list. |
Kaze Eyrou
ROGUE SPADES
53
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 04:11:00 -
[73] - Quote
Telcontar Dunedain wrote:Maken Tosch wrote:Why is it always imperfects the first to start posting their displeasure about anything? We like making you feel bad bro. 0 out of 10.
EDIT: On topic, I do like the sound of getting loot from a loot table containing all that the enemy team used during the battle. |
Telcontar Dunedain
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
328
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 07:40:00 -
[74] - Quote
charlesnette dalari wrote: ... I could be wrong but you quoting wikipedia for how much memory you THINK this would take leads me to the safe assumption you have never programmed before.
Yes you are wrong. I program for a living.
You are rather profoundly confused about what information is stored on your ps3 and what's "in memory" in CCP's servers and what's committed to the databases that store this information.
|
Vance Alken
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
94
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 08:49:00 -
[75] - Quote
I don't get it, if the loot after match doesn't come from player gear, where the **** does it come from? Come on CCP, don't you guys like, employ economists or something? |
Heinz Doofenshertz
BetaMax.
360
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 09:04:00 -
[76] - Quote
they do, however the current system is there merely to test if loot disrobution works and is not the final system. |
Telcontar Dunedain
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
328
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 09:12:00 -
[77] - Quote
Heinz Doofenshertz wrote:they do, however the current system is there merely to test if loot disrobution works and is not the final system.
Wrong. The current system appears to be being made permanent.
Read forward in the devblog from ""Once complete, the full system will allow...""" |
Heinz Doofenshertz
BetaMax.
360
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 09:17:00 -
[78] - Quote
read what you just wrote, "Once Complete" it's not complete, it's not the full final system |
Telcontar Dunedain
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
328
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 09:18:00 -
[79] - Quote
Heinz Doofenshertz wrote:read what you just wrote, "Once Complete" it's not complete, it's not the full final system
Ummmm.
Read forward as I said.
He goes on to describe an EXPANDED version of the temp system. Ie random crap but based on system security.
Not actual looting. No mention of actual looting. |
BASSMEANT
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
109
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 13:45:00 -
[80] - Quote
"In other news this is how Darkfall works and it's awesome."
this is pretty much how ALL mmos work. which is yet one more reason why 514 is not an mmo. not currently and apparently not in the future either.
and FF on needs to happen with or without looting.
FF on needs to happen so all these fake clans can find out how not good they are.
and so snipers can start to feel some of the cost of the game, since all they do is sit on the hilltops queefing each other while the rest of the team actually wins the match for em. need to be able to tk snipers on the way back into the match.
and to tk people for looting your kill.
you loot my kill.... i kill you, loot the enemies stuff AND your stuff.
that's fair. that's how 514 should be.
Peace B |
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Captain-Awesome
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
349
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 14:48:00 -
[81] - Quote
BASSMEANT wrote:"the current loot system is a temporary stepping stone to what we'll get in future. of course it's not perfect, but it's better than nothing"
it's not a loot system. jesus.
and the solution is simple:
if i kill you, and i get to your corpse in time and i "hit x to loot" and i don't get killed, then i get what you had in your kit at the time and you lose that gear from your inventory, permanently.
that's looting.
anything else is just console milk for the veal.
no i don't expect this game to be finished right now.
i do expect this game to be what they hyped it to be back way back before the betas started.
which it is not.
Peace B
"Jesus" it is a current loot system, what you are referring to is a salvage system.
At the current phase, any type of farming system whether (loot OR salvage) is going to be whole items because item parts are not currently in the game and won't be for a very long time. But to make things clear in the eve universe (and by the sounds of things you should know this):
Loot = 100% undamaged items Salvage = workable parts of damaged items
there's a big difference. What we get now is loot. End of match items, 100% undamaged. I can only assume this system will be kept in place as "rewards" for winning a match, this can be (and currently is) how officer gear is introduced into the economy.
I 100% agree a "Salvage" system is not present in the game. When you don't cross your references (ever think that other mmos are over simplifying their referencing to gathering systems?) it's blatant to see there is no salvage system in dust.
and yes, when you kill someone, you should take their inventory. and if you die - that passes on, oldest / least valuable items get removed to be replaced with the newly salvaged items from the latest corpse, and at the end you should be able to trade with members / join their squad / go to a location to trade any items you want to swap.
This also brings into question the possability of a salvage processing facility to bank your items for safe keeping - this transports your items to your war barge where your items are kept. |
BASSMEANT
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
109
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 18:03:00 -
[82] - Quote
i don't know what mmos you have been playing but this right here...
this right here...
this ish right here, dawg...
this right here...
this ain't looting.
Peace B |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
775
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 18:44:00 -
[83] - Quote
In response to the OP
Quote:Once complete, the full system will allow players to influence the quality and quantity of the salvage they receive. Play in a battle with more players and more destruction, and there will more to salvage, and victory earns you the lionGÇÖs share of the spoils. Equip modules that assist you in finding better salvage, and you will become much more likely to receive higher quality items, such as the rare Officer-tier weapons. Quality and type of salvage will also potentially differ based upon the planet you fight on, with rare gear most likely found on nullsec planets.
The Dev blog already addresses your concerns, and while it is not specifically the methodology you're describing it's much closer than you've made it out to be. In addition to that (and the simple fact that above Proto meta gear isn't going to see the market without some method of earning it outside of usual production chains) the current system is temporary which is stated in the blog. The Devs are already busy, please don't distract them from constructive feedback by trolling them (also, feedback belongs in the feedback sub-forum).
0.02 ISK Cross |
Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
132
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 20:45:00 -
[84] - Quote
There should be a pool of salvaged gear that every participant should get to bid on with with points equivalent to their contributioan i. e. WP. For example, if I care about AR and not FG this is what I should get to bid on. Also, if I contributed more to victory I should get more stuff than the #16 on my team |
charlesnette dalari
Creative Killers
159
|
Posted - 2012.12.14 20:53:00 -
[85] - Quote
Telcontar Dunedain wrote:charlesnette dalari wrote: ... I could be wrong but you quoting wikipedia for how much memory you THINK this would take leads me to the safe assumption you have never programmed before.
Yes you are wrong. I program for a living. You are rather profoundly confused about what information is stored on your ps3 and what's "in memory" in CCP's servers and what's committed to the databases that store this information.
i am confused about nothing. where data is stored is not what i am referring to. if you program for a living then you surely know 2kb is likely much larger than the data we are talking about which again is not that important to my point i keep trying to get across. you also know that the client on your ps3 must report to the server what fit was selected by the player to determine what items should be stored on the server in the loot table that must be generated for each kill. now the fact that the ps3 must report the fit being used requires processing cycles on the ps3 that would not be needed for a static loot table stored one time on the server. so again i shouldnt have to tell you, a programmer, your wish list wiil require processing that a static loot table wouldnt no matter where the info is stored or how much info is stored.
thats my point that right now although what you want would be nice and ultimately i agree i just think its something that doesnt need to be a priority right now especially when those processing cycles and that development time can be spent on other things. no matter what, code doesnt write itself and while working on the code for this they are not working on true CORE mechanics like hit detection. |
Rhadiem
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
496
|
Posted - 2012.12.15 05:00:00 -
[86] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:"This system is temporary, and serves as a stepping stone towards final implementation, which should prove far more robust and enjoyable."
/thread
We won't have EVE market integration at release either. |
Marston EV
Doomheim
75
|
Posted - 2012.12.15 15:13:00 -
[87] - Quote
This is probably how things are going to work in the future. CCP is basing Dust heavily off of what they do in EVE. Everything in this game is similar to how EVE works. (for the most part). Its my assumption that eventually there going to make salvaging just like Eve as well. When you kill someones ship in EVE you cant get their ship back in salvage, however depending on your salvaging skill you can probably get scrap metal from the ship, along with a lot of the modules and cargo they had on the ship.
In dust, theres probably going to be a similar system where depending on your salvaging skill you get a bit of the modules/ gear that the clone was using when you kill it. However i dont know if this is going to be in an "active" form or a "passive" form. Active means you would have to go and loot each body individually after killing them (which is what eve is like, although there is salvaging ships that speed this process up a great deal). passive just means that you automatically get some of the clones gear when you kill him/her.
There probably going to have skills like "infantry salvage" and "infantry salvage proficiency" and depending on how high these skills are, you'll be able to get more out of each clone you kill. The higher the level your salvaging skill is, the more valuable the gear you can get out of killing someone. But theres also the selfdestruct button in Eve where if the pilot can get away with it then the aggressors wont get anything.....
At any rate, this will be very good and profitable later on when they add an actual player run market (just like in eve). People who skill into salvage will be very wealthy and will allow for other people to get good gear as well. |
Telcontar Dunedain
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
328
|
Posted - 2013.01.24 03:34:00 -
[88] - Quote
Necroing this thread because YO we need real loot. |
Telcontar Dunedain
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
328
|
Posted - 2013.01.24 05:17:00 -
[89] - Quote
UPDATE
(2013-01-23 7:39:00 PM) [CCP]nothin: Telc: I think you misunderstand -- the current loot system isn't being made permanent
(2013-01-23 7:39:49 PM) Skytt: nothin, the biggest issue with that blog is that there's no mention of future intention to have loot come from what players lose, instead it reads as if it'll always be magic loot coming from thin air
(2013-01-23 7:42:17 PM) [CCP]nothin: we're not moving to that direction though, more into the direction of making loot meaningful in other ways (2013-01-23 7:42:40 PM) [CCP]nothin: and yes, 'real' loot has been always in plans
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Mars El'Theran
Red Rogue Squadron Heart 0f Darkness
52
|
Posted - 2013.01.24 06:39:00 -
[90] - Quote
EVE isn't a loot game, but it does have loot. Dust is less a kill you and take your stuff than a loot game. So far, I haven't seen any ability to salvage corpses pop up.
Besides that, you are getting salvage from the planet, not the opposing force with regard to the loot table; could you explain how you expect that to occur without a loot table? Perhaps you'd rather receive fragmented burning shards of that incinerated tank over there..
..or maybe pluck the scored, burned, and shrapnel torn dropsuit off that corpse over there; the one smoking and smelling of fried chicken and seaweed?
Sure, you could loot the burned wreck of the MCC from the other side I suppose, and hope to get something for it, but for this you should actually have to 'loot' it. As in, walk inside and scan its compartments and storage areas and see if you can find something.
Sure that might be fun, but I imagine it would be time consuming too, and eventually become tedious and repetitive. |
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