Maybe you should compare the codewish duvolle tactical assault rifle to the duvolle tactical assault rifle (its isk equivalent, which has the exact same damage stats) rather than compare 2 different variants of weapons and expecting them to do the same damage.

Nooo, I like free things because I am a cheap person, and I have yet to encounter a truly pay-to-win option in this game.

Stop This Madness!

Maybe you should compare the codewish duvolle tactical assault rifle to the duvolle tactical assault rifle (its isk equivalent, which has the exact same damage stats) rather than compare 2 different variants of weapons and expecting them to do the same damage.

holy **** it is a tactical isn't it, boy i need to learn to read.. How the hell am I getting dropped by that thing before the first volley of my burst is finished then? I can't imagine someone is legitimately able to fire that quickly.

Your codewish comment is still valid when you compare the lower leveled codewish with the higher requirement tac rifle. The higher requirement one requires more (almost double) the CPU/PG to equip, thereby allowing you to equip better mods and equipment with the AUR variant. This should be changed

its hardly p2w when you can get to the same spot without boosters, it just takes a bit more time. It would be p2w if you could never get to the same spot, which is what most f2p models do. I think they are being very fair with what they have done so far.

Right now in this build, those with boosters have the same cap as everyone else. Those that currently have bought boosters threw a fit about the fact they have the same cap as everyone else though where CCP had confirmed those who purchase boosters will have a higher cap in an upcoming build. Imagine buying active boosters to boost your cap and then also buying passive boosters to increase your cap further. Therefore, those who pay more get more accrued SP; hence, pay to win.

Right now in this build, those with boosters have the same cap as everyone else. Those that currently have bought boosters threw a fit about the fact they have the same cap as everyone else though where CCP had confirmed those who purchase boosters will have a higher cap in an upcoming build. Imagine buying active boosters to boost your cap and then also buying passive boosters to increase your cap further. Therefore, those who pay more get more accrued SP; hence, pay to win.

Wrong.
The AUR variant costs more CPU/PG than the ISK variant.
Look again.
Compare apples to apples.
Same level AUR weaponery needs more CPU/PG than the ISK variant of that weapon.
And boosters aren't pay to win, it doesn't do anything on the battlefield and you can reach the same position the booster guy can, just slower.

THIS GAME IS NOT P2W....ITS PAY TO GRIND

also like the man up there said......Merc pack, there is your subscription.

I'm sorry, but the Codewish uses less CPU/PG than the Duvolle Tac, which it is the AUR variant of. I'm looking at the stats right in front of me.
Codewish (AUR variant tac rifle): 47 CPU/ 6 PG
Duvolle Tactical Assault Rifle (ISK variant tac rifle): 90 CPU/ 13 PG
You need to look again.
Edit: And BTW, the Broadside HMG is set up the same way, the ISK variant has far more CPU/PG requirements than the Broadside

This. Cheap bastards unite.

I think your seeing the true nature of war. Most wars are won with advance tech and better resources. All other FPS games were lying to you. There is no such thing as balance on the battlefield, especially in the wars we are fighting right now in the middle east.

Come full release all AUR only weapons will have an ISK cost as well. Problem solved.

The joke about that is players will make it cost an outrageous amount of isk (if they aren't all idiots

i suppose this will all be decided by the invisible hand of the free market, right?

Might as well save your breath, Overlord Ulath. Those arguing for AUR obviously like AUR the way it is as they obviously use it (for their advantage as that's the only way they can be competitive).
It is ironic "Cry me a river" was said when it was the AUR users that cried to prompt the booster change. In their case though, I am sure they consider it "giving constructive feedback" over "crying".

Haha, no.
I don't buy AUR weapons and suits.
I didn't see that the Tactical AUR variant uses less CPU/PG and that's my mistake.
But that's the exception, not the rule.
GEK-38 Assault rifle: 47CPU and 6PG
'Killswitch' GEK-38 Assault rifle: 90CPU and 13PG
And they are exactly the same.
Most other weapons are either higher CPU/PG for AUR, or they are the same.
BTW, with my fitting skills far from max (CPU/PG), I can put almost anything I want on my suits without problem.
With the skills maxed I would probably never see the text saying that there isn't enough CPU/PG.

Sorry, but the "Blindfire" is supposed to be the GEK AUR variant, the Killswitch is actually a rank ABOVE the GEK and requires more CPU/PG. The Killswitch was supposed to be the Duvolle AUR variant, but they screwed up the stats and instead made it the exact same gun as the GEK and "Blindfire" but with higher CPU/PG and 0.1 more accuracy.

Please know of what you speak before you post. Because as I said, the Codewish AND the Broadside are BOTH set up with an unfair advantage on CPU/PG, the Codewish isn't the only one.

subject says it all. With the "codewish" duvolle rifle doing 52 dmg to the Allotek Bursts 33 damage, why bother even getting them? It seems like any EVE corp that wants to make sure they're on the winning side is just going to ensure their mercs are in AUR gear. I can't imagine i'm the only person that wants to avoid this Pay to Win garbage. I understand you can't really make a F2P model of this type without giving players who pay money some incentive, that's why i'd rather pay for the game itself in some fashion. Its bad enough that game play is balanced toward the team with the most ISK rather than the most skill. I can be as skilled as i want but if the other team deploys two or three top-end HAV's my team doesn't really stand much of chance.

Again, the recoil on the thing isn't working. Next build, trying to fire it that fast will just make you miss constantly. You'll have to actually control your shooting.

There are TWO guns that are wrong.

Codewish AR and Broadside HMG.

EVERY SINGLE OTHER AUR WEAPON VARIANT WORKS FAIRLY. These two, AND ONLY THESE TWO, give a measurable and provable advantage over the ISK equivalents.

EVERY SINGLE OTHER AUR WEAPON VARIANT gives you the same statline as the tier above their skill prerequisites (Advanced Prereq with Proto stats), but also has the higher-tier variant's PG/CPU cost. These two, and again, ONLY THESE TWO WEAPONS, have the lower-tier PG/CPU requirements as well. If I buy any Advanced AUR Shotgun, or a non-Tac Advanced AUR Assault Rifle, I'm getting the Prototype stats with only the Advanced skill prerequisites. I'm still having to fit the weapon as a Prototype weapon, because it's still a Prototype, just modified to be easier to use. The Codewish, and the Broadside HMG, both allow you to fit extra/better modules alongside the weapon than their ISK equivalents.

The Codewish is objectively better than the equivalent weapon you can buy with ISK, and is therefore pay-to-win. The Broadside is the same, for the same reason.

There are TWO guns that are wrong.

Codewish AR and Broadside HMG.

EVERY SINGLE OTHER AUR WEAPON VARIANT WORKS FAIRLY. These two, AND ONLY THESE TWO, give a measurable and provable advantage over the ISK equivalents.

EVERY SINGLE OTHER AUR WEAPON VARIANT gives you the same statline as the tier above their skill prerequisites (Advanced Prereq with Proto stats), but also has the higher-tier variant's PG/CPU cost. These two, and again, ONLY THESE TWO WEAPONS, have the lower-tier PG/CPU requirements as well. If I buy any Advanced AUR Shotgun, or a non-Tac Advanced AUR Assault Rifle, I'm getting the Prototype stats with only the Advanced skill prerequisites. I'm still having to fit the weapon as a Prototype weapon, because it's still a Prototype, just modified to be easier to use. The Codewish, and the Broadside HMG, both allow you to fit extra/better modules alongside the weapon than their ISK equivalents.

The Codewish is objectively better than the equivalent weapon you can buy with ISK, and is therefore pay-to-win. The Broadside is the same, for the same reason.

I've been using the 'codewish' lately, and it feels a bit pay-to-win still. I can fit some extra damage mods on my suit because of the lower CPU cost. Although it's an indirect damage boost, it's still a damage boost other rifles just can't get.

I guess if there was a droppable rifle with equivalent stats it might even things out a bit. vOv

There are TWO guns that are wrong.

Codewish AR and Broadside HMG.

EVERY SINGLE OTHER AUR WEAPON VARIANT WORKS FAIRLY. These two, AND ONLY THESE TWO, give a measurable and provable advantage over the ISK equivalents.

EVERY SINGLE OTHER AUR WEAPON VARIANT gives you the same statline as the tier above their skill prerequisites (Advanced Prereq with Proto stats), but also has the higher-tier variant's PG/CPU cost. These two, and again, ONLY THESE TWO WEAPONS, have the lower-tier PG/CPU requirements as well. If I buy any Advanced AUR Shotgun, or a non-Tac Advanced AUR Assault Rifle, I'm getting the Prototype stats with only the Advanced skill prerequisites. I'm still having to fit the weapon as a Prototype weapon, because it's still a Prototype, just modified to be easier to use. The Codewish, and the Broadside HMG, both allow you to fit extra/better modules alongside the weapon than their ISK equivalents.

The Codewish is objectively better than the equivalent weapon you can buy with ISK, and is therefore pay-to-win. The Broadside is the same, for the same reason.

It feels to powerful right now due in part to the stacking penalty on damage mods being broken, causing them to actually stack bonuses for some pretty crazy dps.

That bug has a huge effect on in game performance of gear and should be kept in mind when providing feedback. The best testing protocol until this bug is fixed would be to compare the weapons you use "side-by-side" without fitting any damage enhancer mods. Sadly unless everyone does this the data will still be somewhat skewed due to things seeming weaker when others are using this bug. But at least if you're not exploiting the bug in your testing you can keep the user end data pure.

0.02 ISK
Cross

ps ~ Thanks to Mobium for bringing this up.

No problem. I abuse the things myself, so I figured I'd point it out.

Don't forget the poor Killswitch Garret, that baby needs some love. It's supposed to be an AUR Duvolle but has the stats of a GEK +0.1 accuracy (Blindfire is the AUR GEK).

But yes, the only two AUR overreaches are the Broadside and the Codewish. But since there are two, plus the broken Killswitch, that makes any rule concerning the AUR weapons void. Until the rule spans either all or all but one that is the exception, it cannot really be called "the rule". But it is the overall goal of the AUR items to be equivalent to but not exceeding the ISK items in quality or stats.

Sorry, while talking in a thread about "pay to win" weapons, I forgot about the fact that there's a "pay to lose" weapon thrown in for good measure.

My bad.