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Khulam Alkon
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
46
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Posted - 2012.12.11 04:36:00 -
[1] - Quote
subject says it all. With the "codewish" duvolle rifle doing 52 dmg to the Allotek Bursts 33 damage, why bother even getting them? It seems like any EVE corp that wants to make sure they're on the winning side is just going to ensure their mercs are in AUR gear. I can't imagine i'm the only person that wants to avoid this Pay to Win garbage. I understand you can't really make a F2P model of this type without giving players who pay money some incentive, that's why i'd rather pay for the game itself in some fashion. Its bad enough that game play is balanced toward the team with the most ISK rather than the most skill. I can be as skilled as i want but if the other team deploys two or three top-end HAV's my team doesn't really stand much of chance. |
Elijah Sol' Dzusaki
Onward Defrosted Tuna Team
485
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Posted - 2012.12.11 04:42:00 -
[2] - Quote
Nooo, I like free things because I am a cheap person, and I have yet to encounter a truly pay-to-win option in this game.
Stop This Madness! |
Tiel Syysch
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
634
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Posted - 2012.12.11 04:43:00 -
[3] - Quote
Maybe you should compare the codewish duvolle tactical assault rifle to the duvolle tactical assault rifle (its isk equivalent, which has the exact same damage stats) rather than compare 2 different variants of weapons and expecting them to do the same damage. |
Khulam Alkon
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
46
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Posted - 2012.12.11 04:46:00 -
[4] - Quote
Tiel Syysch wrote:Maybe you should compare the codewish duvolle tactical assault rifle to the duvolle tactical assault rifle (its isk equivalent, which has the exact same damage stats) rather than compare 2 different variants of weapons and expecting them to do the same damage.
holy **** it is a tactical isn't it, boy i need to learn to read.. How the hell am I getting dropped by that thing before the first volley of my burst is finished then? I can't imagine someone is legitimately able to fire that quickly.
EDIT: and with that I humbly withdraw my Pay to win comment. Apologies. Still greatly concerned that being on the receiving end of a Codewish TACTICAL AR felt like I was being shot by a very high damage burst rifle though. |
Reimus Klinsman
BetaMax.
320
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Posted - 2012.12.11 08:11:00 -
[5] - Quote
I'd rather the game be an even playing field all around.
I'd gladly pay a subscription for the game. |
Tahir Maru
Circle of Huskarl
Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2012.12.11 11:54:00 -
[6] - Quote
probably one of those rapid fire game pads with the full auto option for fire button?
I just guess because I only saw several of those in a shop and never tried one. |
Needless Sacermendor
Red Fox Brigade
208
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Posted - 2012.12.11 12:34:00 -
[7] - Quote
Haven't tried the tactical myself yet ... but I've read it's easy enough to spam the R1 button or (in my case) left mouse button to get a near full auto fire out of the single shot weapon.
Try it yourself, sure it's not to everyone's liking, but clearly some people use it to good effect, I don't think they all use the modded controllers, sure many probably do, but I've read on here that some just spam the fire button. |
Pent'noir
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
62
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Posted - 2012.12.11 15:30:00 -
[8] - Quote
If you really want to treat dust as a sub based game, then there will probably be an option for that in the 15$ range where you get active/passive boosters and some aur to spend for the month. Right now there is the merc pack that does exactly this, but costs 20$.
So there is your Subscription and you are still able to play for free if you want to go that route. I think the F2P model is the future of all mmo gaming. I love them! The only thing that i see worthy of debating is how much of an advantage should the aur users get. CCP has to entice ppl to buy aur so they make money, but just how far should they go? |
Mace Karren
IMPSwarm
Negative-Feedback
24
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Posted - 2012.12.11 15:44:00 -
[9] - Quote
Elijah Sol' Dzusaki wrote:Nooo, I like free things because I am a cheap person, and I have yet to encounter a truly pay-to-win option in this game.
Stop This Madness!
This. Cheap bastards unite. |
Sentient Archon
Red Star.
690
|
Posted - 2012.12.11 16:19:00 -
[10] - Quote
Tiel Syysch wrote:Maybe you should compare the codewish duvolle tactical assault rifle to the duvolle tactical assault rifle (its isk equivalent, which has the exact same damage stats) rather than compare 2 different variants of weapons and expecting them to do the same damage.
This ^. It takes 2 levels higher to get it, but you do get it. Barring the CPU and power usage they are the same.
Aur is not P2W. Its P2GAA.  |
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Overlord Ulath
Doomheim
85
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Posted - 2012.12.11 16:20:00 -
[11] - Quote
Your codewish comment is still valid when you compare the lower leveled codewish with the higher requirement tac rifle. The higher requirement one requires more (almost double) the CPU/PG to equip, thereby allowing you to equip better mods and equipment with the AUR variant. This should be changed |
LXicon
Sanmatar Kelkoons
Minmatar Republic
54
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Posted - 2012.12.11 16:32:00 -
[12] - Quote
Khulam Alkon wrote:holy **** it is a tactical isn't it, boy i need to learn to read.. How the hell am I getting dropped by that thing before the first volley of my burst is finished then? I can't imagine someone is legitimately able to fire that quickly.
I just switched to the tactical assault rifle last night. I'm used to firing semi-auto from all the Borderlands 2 "Jakobs" brand weapons that "fire as fast as you can pull the trigger".
I was wasting most of my 60 round clips with the Standard or GEK-30 full-auto assault rifles. The 24 round clip in a semi-automatic Tactical assault rifle is fine with me :)
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Nomed Deeps
The Exemplars
91
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Posted - 2012.12.11 18:40:00 -
[13] - Quote
WOW! A lot of previously discussed topics lately.
CCP is keeping the ISK and AUR variants quite consistent for the most part and I commend them for it. Of course, AUR lets everyone access gear a level higher than they're allowed but that's the whole incentive. I do not use AUR myself and love popping those who feel they must use AUR gear to be competitive. The fact that I and others can pop AUR users with ISK gear proves there's balance; at least for the most part.
Boosters are another story though. Getting a greater overall advantage via purchase like the boosters allow via SP is the definition of pay to win. |
Pent'noir
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
62
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Posted - 2012.12.11 19:14:00 -
[14] - Quote
its hardly p2w when you can get to the same spot without boosters, it just takes a bit more time. It would be p2w if you could never get to the same spot, which is what most f2p models do. I think they are being very fair with what they have done so far. |
ArMaGeDoN The Cat
Systems Federation
Coalition of Galactic Unity
157
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Posted - 2012.12.11 20:00:00 -
[15] - Quote
Overlord Ulath wrote:Your codewish comment is still valid when you compare the lower leveled codewish with the higher requirement tac rifle. The higher requirement one requires more (almost double) the CPU/PG to equip, thereby allowing you to equip better mods and equipment with the AUR variant. This should be changed
Wrong.
The AUR variant costs more CPU/PG than the ISK variant.
Look again.
Compare apples to apples.
Same level AUR weaponery needs more CPU/PG than the ISK variant of that weapon.
And boosters aren't pay to win, it doesn't do anything on the battlefield and you can reach the same position the booster guy can, just slower. |
Ziot Reitrenner
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
17
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Posted - 2012.12.11 20:35:00 -
[16] - Quote
This game has far bigger problems than pay to win guns.
If the actual stability problems aren't even incrementally improved in the next build you can consider this game dead. |
Nomed Deeps
The Exemplars
91
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Posted - 2012.12.11 20:58:00 -
[17] - Quote
Pent'noir wrote:its hardly p2w when you can get to the same spot without boosters, it just takes a bit more time. It would be p2w if you could never get to the same spot, which is what most f2p models do. I think they are being very fair with what they have done so far.
Right now in this build, those with boosters have the same cap as everyone else. Those that currently have bought boosters threw a fit about the fact they have the same cap as everyone else though where CCP had confirmed those who purchase boosters will have a higher cap in an upcoming build. Imagine buying active boosters to boost your cap and then also buying passive boosters to increase your cap further. Therefore, those who pay more get more accrued SP; hence, pay to win. |
ArMaGeDoN The Cat
Systems Federation
Coalition of Galactic Unity
157
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Posted - 2012.12.11 21:11:00 -
[18] - Quote
Nomed Deeps wrote:Pent'noir wrote:its hardly p2w when you can get to the same spot without boosters, it just takes a bit more time. It would be p2w if you could never get to the same spot, which is what most f2p models do. I think they are being very fair with what they have done so far. Right now in this build, those with boosters have the same cap as everyone else. Those that currently have bought boosters threw a fit about the fact they have the same cap as everyone else though where CCP had confirmed those who purchase boosters will have a higher cap in an upcoming build. Imagine buying active boosters to boost your cap and then also buying passive boosters to increase your cap further. Therefore, those who pay more get more accrued SP; hence, pay to win.
Cry me a river.
You can still get those skills anyway.
CCP needs to make money in SOME WAY, this is the only sensible way. |
Pent'noir
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
62
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Posted - 2012.12.11 21:25:00 -
[19] - Quote
Nomed Deeps wrote:Pent'noir wrote:its hardly p2w when you can get to the same spot without boosters, it just takes a bit more time. It would be p2w if you could never get to the same spot, which is what most f2p models do. I think they are being very fair with what they have done so far. Right now in this build, those with boosters have the same cap as everyone else. Those that currently have bought boosters threw a fit about the fact they have the same cap as everyone else though where CCP had confirmed those who purchase boosters will have a higher cap in an upcoming build. Imagine buying active boosters to boost your cap and then also buying passive boosters to increase your cap further. Therefore, those who pay more get more accrued SP; hence, pay to win.
Not p2w when something a booster person can do in 1 month may take a non booster person 1.5-2 months. You will eventually end up in the same spot with all your skills at lvl 5 for the same profession. As an example of p2w, It would be p2w if you had to buy the right to train to lvl 5 or buy the skill with aur. Your argument does not hold any water in my opinion. You just want no advantage from using aur as compared to isk. There will be advantages, it is the only reason why a f2p model works. If there isn't enough of a reason to buy an aur item then no one will buy it and the game goes broke.
The soon to come boosters are a nice example. Why would they change how the boosters work? Because very few ppl were buying them. So they made them more attractive, but it is a far cry from being p2w. |
Overlord Ulath
Doomheim
85
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Posted - 2012.12.11 21:45:00 -
[20] - Quote
ArMaGeDoN The Cat wrote:Overlord Ulath wrote:Your codewish comment is still valid when you compare the lower leveled codewish with the higher requirement tac rifle. The higher requirement one requires more (almost double) the CPU/PG to equip, thereby allowing you to equip better mods and equipment with the AUR variant. This should be changed Wrong. The AUR variant costs more CPU/PG than the ISK variant. Look again. Compare apples to apples. Same level AUR weaponery needs more CPU/PG than the ISK variant of that weapon. And boosters aren't pay to win, it doesn't do anything on the battlefield and you can reach the same position the booster guy can, just slower.
I'm sorry, but the Codewish uses less CPU/PG than the Duvolle Tac, which it is the AUR variant of. I'm looking at the stats right in front of me.
Codewish (AUR variant tac rifle): 47 CPU/ 6 PG
Duvolle Tactical Assault Rifle (ISK variant tac rifle): 90 CPU/ 13 PG
You need to look again.
Edit: And BTW, the Broadside HMG is set up the same way, the ISK variant has far more CPU/PG requirements than the Broadside |
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HECATONCHIRES GYGES
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
151
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Posted - 2012.12.11 22:14:00 -
[21] - Quote
. |
HECATONCHIRES GYGES
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
151
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Posted - 2012.12.11 22:14:00 -
[22] - Quote
HECATONCHIRES GYGES wrote:THIS GAME IS NOT P2W....ITS PAY TO GRIND
also like the man up there said......Merc pack, there is your subscription.
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Nomed Deeps
The Exemplars
91
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Posted - 2012.12.11 22:29:00 -
[23] - Quote
Quote:I'm sorry, but the Codewish uses less CPU/PG than the Duvolle Tac, which it is the AUR variant of. I'm looking at the stats right in front of me.
Codewish (AUR variant tac rifle): 47 CPU/ 6 PG
Duvolle Tactical Assault Rifle (ISK variant tac rifle): 90 CPU/ 13 PG
You need to look again.
Edit: And BTW, the Broadside HMG is set up the same way, the ISK variant has far more CPU/PG requirements than the Broadside
Might as well save your breath, Overlord Ulath. Those arguing for AUR obviously like AUR the way it is as they obviously use it (for their advantage as that's the only way they can be competitive).
It is ironic "Cry me a river" was said when it was the AUR users that cried to prompt the booster change. In their case though, I am sure they consider it "giving constructive feedback" over "crying". |
Andius Fidelitas
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
51
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Posted - 2012.12.11 23:50:00 -
[24] - Quote
Mace Karren wrote:Elijah Sol' Dzusaki wrote:Nooo, I like free things because I am a cheap person, and I have yet to encounter a truly pay-to-win option in this game.
Stop This Madness! This. Cheap bastards unite.
This would be a loltastic corp name.  |
Noah Onori
S.e.V.e.N.
3
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Posted - 2012.12.12 00:00:00 -
[25] - Quote
I think your seeing the true nature of war. Most wars are won with advance tech and better resources. All other FPS games were lying to you. There is no such thing as balance on the battlefield, especially in the wars we are fighting right now in the middle east. |
Octavian Vetiver
Dog Nation United
Relativity Alliance
152
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Posted - 2012.12.12 00:03:00 -
[26] - Quote
Noah Onori wrote:I think your seeing the true nature of war. Most wars are won with advance tech and better resources. All other FPS games were lying to you. There is no such thing as balance on the battlefield, especially in the wars we are fighting right now in the middle east.
If you're fighting fair then you're doing it wrong. |
DarkShadowFox
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
238
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Posted - 2012.12.12 00:38:00 -
[27] - Quote
quote=Noah Onori]
If you're fighting fair then you're doing it wrong.[/quote]
Nope if your paying for things your doing it wrong.
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Altessan Vigarde
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
84
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Posted - 2012.12.12 03:42:00 -
[28] - Quote
Come full release all AUR only weapons will have an ISK cost as well. Problem solved. |
Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood
Unclaimed.
385
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Posted - 2012.12.12 03:45:00 -
[29] - Quote
Altessan Vigarde wrote:Come full release all AUR only weapons will have an ISK cost as well. Problem solved.
The joke about that is players will make it cost an outrageous amount of isk (if they aren't all idiots |
Talos Alomar
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
391
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Posted - 2012.12.12 06:42:00 -
[30] - Quote
Vermaak Doe wrote:Altessan Vigarde wrote:Come full release all AUR only weapons will have an ISK cost as well. Problem solved. The joke about that is players will make it cost an outrageous amount of isk (if they aren't all idiots
i suppose this will all be decided by the invisible hand of the free market, right? |
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