I haven't played dust for a few weeks now, due to one thing mainly.

Group sizing.

I'll make this short, cause no one wants to hear this dead horse again, but these are my two cents. We need to be able to fill a whole team with friends/clan mates. With corp battles being only 8v8, with no reward for individuals, pub matches are far more fun and rewarding. We NEED larger groups, 6 people is fine, 8 is better. We should also be allowed to either link groups, or just make one large group (up to 16 people). My main reasoning for this is simple..

I'm tired of playing against my friends. it's ridiculous that we are given absolutely no control over who we play alongside, unless we forgo advancing our characters (no SP in corp battles) or play a different game.

I've opted for the later. I doubt I'm the only one. I'm sure some people will cry about "bu..bu... bu... teh overpowered one-sided pub matches!"

Kinda like the "overpowered one-sided" pub matches we have already when you and your 3 friends go up against two dudes with tanks and your team just happens to have absolutely no AV capability? yeah. That is way more fair than once in a while running into a semi-organized (in most cases) enemy.

That or give us 16v16 (and bigger, as the game progresses) corp battles, with full SP/ISK rewards.

these nerds can't play the game as it is.

they are all breathily awaiting the day when some crappy codboi AI bot mode is released so they won't be losing to humans any more.

blaming the clans for pubstomping?
so you're blaming the clans because YOUR team lost so bad? you guys have a team. you guys have mics. you DON'T use em so you blame the clans for you getting redlined?
interesting technique.


agreed though... clans standing around in pube rooms beating up on you nerds does nothing for them, nor the game.
but it's dust, not babysitting mmo, so if the devs want this game to tank, keep up with the handholding and protecting of the casuals from their own incompetence.

if they want this game to actually go someplace, at somepoint, they have to open the cages and let the mosnters out.
that's just the long and short of it.

Peace
B

these nerds can't play the game as it is.

they are all breathily awaiting the day when some crappy codboi AI bot mode is released so they won't be losing to humans any more.

blaming the clans for pubstomping?
so you're blaming the clans because YOUR team lost so bad? you guys have a team. you guys have mics. you DON'T use em so you blame the clans for you getting redlined?
interesting technique.


agreed though... clans standing around in pube rooms beating up on you nerds does nothing for them, nor the game.
but it's dust, not babysitting mmo, so if the devs want this game to tank, keep up with the handholding and protecting of the casuals from their own incompetence.

if they want this game to actually go someplace, at somepoint, they have to open the cages and let the mosnters out.
that's just the long and short of it.

Peace
B

To answer ur question about SP its simple u pub....whats wrong with pubbin with 1 squad? grind ur SP , do some PVE and grind SP there as well inbetween ur lowsec and nullsec fights. Simple solution is simple. Seperating the playerbase on a game that will have a small playerbase is a bad move so CCP also needs to make sure ppl play hisec pub games inbetween their low and null battles to keep games flowing.

Ppl gotta look at the bigger picture and the bigger picture is there are always alot more casuals playing a game than clan oriented players. We already have lowsec and nullsec for corps to stomp around in dont need to take away the only place the majority of the playerbase can have some fun as well

I think the battles we are thinking about would also fall under the Mercenary tab rather than the Corporation tab, and you do get SP from Mercenary contracts(like the tournament and these event matches). Just speculating, though.

I still didn't get a response to my question at the bottom of the first page of this thread :/

We could look at the socom series for inspiration. Socom didn't cater to the casuals and I consider it one of the greatest games of all time. I remember the first time I booted up S2, I went straight to multiplayer joined a game and got stomped on. Because it was a hardcore game. You didn't see many people in that game that didn't have clan tags because the community kept that game alive.

The main reason for a larger grouping system is so that you can play with all of your friends not just 3 of them. I've said it before I'll say it again, if this game starts catering to the causals, this game will die. MAG in the beta days was a hardcore game that I enjoyed immensely but patch after patch started catering to the causal gamer and MAG died because of it. If CCP wants this game to survive they have to listen to the hardcore playerbase, let the community keep the game alive.

I can tell you this even if we get a clan deploy system similar to MAG, clans will still be playing in corp battles, because that is the nature of a competitive environment. Hell I'm sure there will eventually be a gamebattles type system set up for clan battles because clans like competition. Sure there will be some pubstomp corps out there but there will always be pubstomp corps.

@ J how is it like EVE? isnt the majority of players in EVE in hisec and carebears who mine rocks and dont pvp? so u want CCP to encourage corps to be carebears just sitting in hisec farming noobs in dust?

CCP should be encouraging corps to fight EACH OTHER not stomp randoms. This MAG mentality ppl got gotta drop.

Put zerg deploy in hisec and u'll never see another contract go up because teams wont take any risks they will just sit in hisec and pub their entire dust life i can guarantee u that.

To answer ur question about SP its simple u pub....whats wrong with pubbin with 1 squad? grind ur SP , do some PVE and grind SP there as well inbetween ur lowsec and nullsec fights. Simple solution is simple. Seperating the playerbase on a game that will have a small playerbase is a bad move so CCP also needs to make sure ppl play hisec pub games inbetween their low and null battles to keep games flowing.

Agreed, +1. Pub matches are normally pretty one sided anyways. The only time I normally get a good fight is when our squad gets paired against another corp squad. And hell the outcome is normally decided on what team has the better blue dots (more corp players)

I disagree. Make a game for casuals, and they move on when the newest ice cream flavor comes out. Poof, there goes your fanbase. Hardcore players are left disgusted, and now you got no one.

Too many casual games out there right now. DUST needs to differentiate itself to people; MAKE IT HARD.

Fun, rewarding, deep, but don't cater to the capricious whims of a casual.

My 0.02 ISK

We could look at the socom series for inspiration. Socom didn't cater to the casuals and I consider it one of the greatest games of all time. I remember the first time I booted up S2, I went straight to multiplayer joined a game and got stomped on. Because it was a hardcore game. You didn't see many people in that game that didn't have clan tags because the community kept that game alive.

The main reason for a larger grouping system is so that you can play with all of your friends not just 3 of them. I've said it before I'll say it again, if this game starts catering to the causals, this game will die. MAG in the beta days was a hardcore game that I enjoyed immensely but patch after patch started catering to the causal gamer and MAG died because of it. If CCP wants this game to survive they have to listen to the hardcore playerbase, let the community keep the game alive.

I can tell you this even if we get a clan deploy system similar to MAG, clans will still be playing in corp battles, because that is the nature of a competitive environment. Hell I'm sure there will eventually be a gamebattles type system set up for clan battles because clans like competition. Sure there will be some pubstomp corps out there but there will always be pubstomp corps.

This is absurd. The game can be good for BOTH casuals AND "hardcore" players. It's incredibly foolish to make it exclusively for one or the other, and hey, guess what, hardcore players often begin as casual players. If you drive away casuals by making the game ****** for them to play, you ensure that your playerbase will not grow and that your game will not succeed.

No they aren't. Letting one corp stack an entire team would go a long way to making sure more public games are one-sided, though.

The bottom line is that it would be bad for Dust. Non-corp casual players would be driven away from the game, and corp players wouldn't really get anything out of it beyond an easy win, which isn't fun either. Nobody benefits from this. If you want to play with friends, you can as a single squad. If you want a big, organized fight for your corp, pick a battle with another corp. There's zero reason to allow pub stomping.

+100
this is why hisec needs to be the casual free zone and those that gradually wish to seek more out of their gameplay experience will naturally gravitate towards finding lowsec and nullsec corps , some will even look for corps that heavy into gladiator arenas and tournament play

5x is right everyone starts off as a casual player, hell i did then i got a taste of clan battles back on KZ2 and became hooked on the more competitive side of games

Ok. Then make a place for corps to deploy full teams and still gain SP and ISK. Like, a seperate queue for those who want to play with a full team. Keep high sec 4 player squads only, but form an early precursor to low sec where full teams can play matchmaking in another queue. Randoms could still join, but they would know that there would be corps in there.

Is that a better solution?

Ok. Then make a place for corps to deploy full teams and still gain SP and ISK. Like, a seperate queue for those who want to play with a full team. Keep high sec 4 player squads only, but form an early precursor to low sec where full teams can play matchmaking in another queue. Randoms could still join, but they would know that there would be corps in there.

Is that a better solution?

No, it isn't a better solution, for the same reason you don't get any SP or ISK from corp v. corp matches currently. Two organized teams against one another would result in two very organized teams trading kills/revives in militia gear against one another until the timer runs out. It would be incredibly open to abuse, and absolutely would be abused the moment it's allowed.

And allowing random people to join is pointless, as nobody would ever voluntarily play against organized teams while being solo themselves and on a team of other solo players. Being redlined and farmed probably isn't high on the list of things people are liable to volunteer for.

Ultimately it's just a lot of crap. CCP isn't going to let you farm pubbies, and they aren't going to let you trade kills with friendly corps for SP and ISK.

Well, I presented a median solution.

On one hand, I have Mav saying "why do u care about SP" and on the other hand, a claim that a corp matchmaking shstem would promote boosting.

As I said before, I think my corpmates and I would rather play against organized opposition most of the time, and aboid high sec as much as possible. Making high sec the only place to earn SP is a poor design choice imo.

I just don't think I would find myself playing DUST much if I only ever earn SP in say, an 8 person swuad in a 64 player game.
Like it or not, I have to care about SP because of the huge advantages it gives. If I simple don't care about it, I will permanently be at a disadvantage.

So the question remains... How do we have organized teams play pub matchmaking against other teams, whilst still earning ISK and SP? All while avoiding pubstomping randoms?

I really think the ability to group up with more then 4 people might enhance the experience. You have to figure most corps would be grouping up so it would be like getting into a corp battle where the players actually get SP and ISK for the battle.

Most games I play are already redline games for the most part. The ability to play with all of your friends is the main reason I want larger squads.