Exactly. Teams of randoms can barely handle 4 man squads right now and you want your entire corp in the same pub? Please...

what about a separate quene one for jsut small squads of 4 and randoms and then another quene where 2 or more squads can quene up and be on the same team. kinda like corp battles but the corp dosent get money and that quene is matched with onther squads for instance.

me and 3 buddys quene up in the game type modes we have now in instant battle and we get in battles like now with lots of randoms but we still got a few friends.

and then another quene for 2 or more squads quening up together that put against other groups of atleast 2 squads of the same corp. kinda like an un offical corp battle with a few randoms.

you can add more squads up to 4 squads on 1 corp vs 4 squads on the other but your quene would be longer since you can only fight a similar group composition..

everyone following me?

Considering if you met that group in a pub match, every player would get at least 1m+ individually at the end of the game, yes they aren't rewarding.

Maybe the idea shouldn't be get corps out of high sec, it should be to get randoms into corps.
We are playing a team-based game that doesn't allow organized teams. Remember MAG? Yeah... The whole no clan deploy thing was GRRREEEAAATTT....

Honestly, I get sick of hearing "protect the casuals". Make DUST a hardcore game, and the hardcore fans will support it to its death. And slowly the game sill grow larger. FOTM players aren't gonna be incentivized to play more by iving them boring pub games with a team full of random bluedots. Corps are the main draw of DUST, and thats where the focus should be, not the butthurt feelings of casual #736265227 who is mad he got trumped by teamwork.

Pubstomping is a reality of any large team based game. And honestly, thats fine. The people who will stay with DUST will find a corp to join and avoid getting pubstomped, and the casuals will leave anyways like they would have done.

Eh. I could agree with your points above, except it makes for boring gameplay right now. I don't really want to play against randoms all day in a 4 man squad. But the alternstive is a corp battle with only 8 players that doesn't award me any SP or ISK personally, and thats just pointless to me.

Honestly the crux of the disagreement is whether or not organized groups in pub mathes will ruin the game. I say it will make it more fun, at the moment I find DUST pretty bland. You guys think it will turn away casuals and kill the game.

I hate to say it, but their needs to be some form of corp match that awards ISK/SP, because otherwise I will never play this game in the low/null sec areas. I think at some point we are all just gonna have to deal with people farming SP in corp battles, because otherwise it makes the game pointless for those playing legitamitely.

Whilst I personally love the idea of being able to deploy with more of my corpmates (Very tired of killing one another. We seem to bring out really expensive gear to fight one another xD) but it would be awful. You need to think of the consequences before doing such a thing.

Pubstomping is quite bad with just 4 players. I mean, Me, Crafty and Hughes went around with Balacs the other day and ended up killing over 20-25 each in a single match. The blue dots mopped up the few left and we lost 2 clones (bloody blue dots.) If we had a bigger squad it would've been over faster and we probably wouldn't of lost those clones.

So thats with 3 capable players. Imagine if we had 3 more? or 5 more?

My point is that you give people this option right now and it'll only result in players stomping newbies(/notsogoodplayers) and it becomes very unfair and very unfun very quickly.

these nerds can't play the game as it is.

they are all breathily awaiting the day when some crappy codboi AI bot mode is released so they won't be losing to humans any more.

blaming the clans for pubstomping?
so you're blaming the clans because YOUR team lost so bad? you guys have a team. you guys have mics. you DON'T use em so you blame the clans for you getting redlined?
interesting technique.


agreed though... clans standing around in pube rooms beating up on you nerds does nothing for them, nor the game.
but it's dust, not babysitting mmo, so if the devs want this game to tank, keep up with the handholding and protecting of the casuals from their own incompetence.

if they want this game to actually go someplace, at somepoint, they have to open the cages and let the mosnters out.
that's just the long and short of it.

Peace
B

I think the battles we are thinking about would also fall under the Mercenary tab rather than the Corporation tab, and you do get SP from Mercenary contracts(like the tournament and these event matches). Just speculating, though.

I still didn't get a response to my question at the bottom of the first page of this thread :/

We could look at the socom series for inspiration. Socom didn't cater to the casuals and I consider it one of the greatest games of all time. I remember the first time I booted up S2, I went straight to multiplayer joined a game and got stomped on. Because it was a hardcore game. You didn't see many people in that game that didn't have clan tags because the community kept that game alive.

The main reason for a larger grouping system is so that you can play with all of your friends not just 3 of them. I've said it before I'll say it again, if this game starts catering to the causals, this game will die. MAG in the beta days was a hardcore game that I enjoyed immensely but patch after patch started catering to the causal gamer and MAG died because of it. If CCP wants this game to survive they have to listen to the hardcore playerbase, let the community keep the game alive.

I can tell you this even if we get a clan deploy system similar to MAG, clans will still be playing in corp battles, because that is the nature of a competitive environment. Hell I'm sure there will eventually be a gamebattles type system set up for clan battles because clans like competition. Sure there will be some pubstomp corps out there but there will always be pubstomp corps.

This is absurd. The game can be good for BOTH casuals AND "hardcore" players. It's incredibly foolish to make it exclusively for one or the other, and hey, guess what, hardcore players often begin as casual players. If you drive away casuals by making the game ****** for them to play, you ensure that your playerbase will not grow and that your game will not succeed.

No they aren't. Letting one corp stack an entire team would go a long way to making sure more public games are one-sided, though.

The bottom line is that it would be bad for Dust. Non-corp casual players would be driven away from the game, and corp players wouldn't really get anything out of it beyond an easy win, which isn't fun either. Nobody benefits from this. If you want to play with friends, you can as a single squad. If you want a big, organized fight for your corp, pick a battle with another corp. There's zero reason to allow pub stomping.

Ok. Then make a place for corps to deploy full teams and still gain SP and ISK. Like, a seperate queue for those who want to play with a full team. Keep high sec 4 player squads only, but form an early precursor to low sec where full teams can play matchmaking in another queue. Randoms could still join, but they would know that there would be corps in there.

Is that a better solution?

No, it isn't a better solution, for the same reason you don't get any SP or ISK from corp v. corp matches currently. Two organized teams against one another would result in two very organized teams trading kills/revives in militia gear against one another until the timer runs out. It would be incredibly open to abuse, and absolutely would be abused the moment it's allowed.

And allowing random people to join is pointless, as nobody would ever voluntarily play against organized teams while being solo themselves and on a team of other solo players. Being redlined and farmed probably isn't high on the list of things people are liable to volunteer for.

Ultimately it's just a lot of crap. CCP isn't going to let you farm pubbies, and they aren't going to let you trade kills with friendly corps for SP and ISK.

Well, I presented a median solution.

On one hand, I have Mav saying "why do u care about SP" and on the other hand, a claim that a corp matchmaking shstem would promote boosting.

As I said before, I think my corpmates and I would rather play against organized opposition most of the time, and aboid high sec as much as possible. Making high sec the only place to earn SP is a poor design choice imo.

I just don't think I would find myself playing DUST much if I only ever earn SP in say, an 8 person swuad in a 64 player game.
Like it or not, I have to care about SP because of the huge advantages it gives. If I simple don't care about it, I will permanently be at a disadvantage.

So the question remains... How do we have organized teams play pub matchmaking against other teams, whilst still earning ISK and SP? All while avoiding pubstomping randoms?

I really think the ability to group up with more then 4 people might enhance the experience. You have to figure most corps would be grouping up so it would be like getting into a corp battle where the players actually get SP and ISK for the battle.

Most games I play are already redline games for the most part. The ability to play with all of your friends is the main reason I want larger squads.

I think one part of protoman's post got a bit overlooked. What is wrong with this idea?



EDIT: Mercenary playlist for those who don't know is a separate queue where groups cannot enter

Why can't I play with my all my friends. Earn SP and ISK. Have fun. And not have the pressure of having to win a corp match.

MAG had something good, so we should avoid it? Hmmm.

You're super defensive, Mav. Maybe you should take a break from ranting incoherently, yeah?

I think he is right. He wrote it in harsh words though.

I'd like to add one more argument.

The current content in the beta is mostly content for randoms. The current corpVScorp battles mechanic looks like placeholder for me. I no doubt think it will be largely extended.

What was promised by CCP for corps is territory and resource warfare, cooperation with EVE universe, conquest game mode and a lot more. Leave instance matchmaking system for randoms, we won't have a lot (horde-style PvE, yes, but it isn't on horizon yet).

the game is big enough for both solo players and groups. if the matchmaking is worth anything they'll be pve and ques where randoms get matched against each other and one where groups do. if u want to plan a campaign to take sov u can just organize that yourself. i dont want to see 24 person groups matched vs randoms either but the solution is not 4 man groups. the game has to be bigger than that based on the size of eve battles.

What I'd like to see is to have the games locked in relation to SP and have mass corp deploy only function on SP unlocked games. For example;

HiSec battles = 0.0 SP to 2.99M SP, no mass corp deploy but can deploy a corp squad, players have to be under the 2.99M SP cap. Anyone over 3M SP is locked out.

LowSec battles = 0.0 SP to 5.99M SP, mass corp deploy, below 3M SP corp players can deploy at their own peril. Anyone over 6M Sp is locked out.

NulSec battles = 0.0 SP to 6M+ SP, mass corp deploy, below 6M SP corp players can deploy at their own peril and friendly fire turned on.

This is the best solution I have seen yet tbh

separating like FacWar, null sec, PvE missions all will do when we get to see more of those features?

I see no problem with making groups vs groups and randoms vs randoms.