I can outgun most ARs - including some Prototypes - with the Toxin SMG from the Merc Pack. It has Standard-level stats, and if you're using it in close, it rips targets to pieces faster than most ARs.

They're a short-range weapon, and more importantly, they're a SIDEARM. They're designed to be SECONDARY weapons, not PRIMARY. If you're trying to use the SMG as your main gun, you need one of 3 things:

1. Lots of SP investment.
2. Lots of skill and situational awareness.
3. A good reason why you're only carrying a Sidearm.

if ur gonna have swarm launchers as a primary weapon then u NEED a good 2ndary weapon that can at least hold its own against infantry in its ideal situation

sorry but SMG users dont even kill me even when they get the jump on me and i feel i should of died
its also one of the reasons ppl neglect AV because their is no decent sidearm except the scrambler pistol and most ppl arent good enough to use it + hit detection issues still

ya its a sidearm but a terrible one in my books when the scrambler pistol has alot more range and stoppin power than it why even choose an SMG?

if ur gonna have swarm launchers as a primary weapon then u NEED a good 2ndary weapon that can at least hold its own against infantry in its ideal situation

lol i know how to shoot
im sayin the hip fire on an AR is better than an SMG thats dumb
SMGs in every game always have lower damage and better hip fire than ARs yet there is no reason to bother with an SMG for cqc if i got my AR since i can hip fire better with that due to game mechanics anyway

an no matter how u look at it the range is still balls it has like 1/4 the range of an AR....really?
sharpshooter skills are wasted on smgs since the optimal is like 15m ur practically gettin no bonus and wasting alot of SP

When running around with a SL your job is AV. You shouldn't be able to dominate too much with the SMG, even in close range.

Up against a shotgun, you should lose.
Up against a sniper or a laser in close range, you will win.

Now, you're saying that when people get the jump on you with a SMG you still kill them. What are you using and what are they using? If you're in an advanced suit with a high-tier AR and they are in milita suit with a low-tier SMG, then of course you win?

agree with shotguns thats how they work
cqc one to 2 shots and they win

im using the blindfire and doesnt matter the suit since for the majority of the past 2 builds ive been using standard stuff as infantry only

and disagree with ur swarm comment
just because their primary job is AV that means they must be terrible at taking out infantry/defending themselves?

whats the main running complaint from ppl? omg tanks are OP
they are OP because ppl dont want to skill into AV when its a situational role, they rather skill into assault + AR and kill
sure its different in corps but for the solo player he wont waste his time on AV, hell ppl got a FREE OP militia swarm fit and yet my lolarmor tank survives most pubs when in theory the ENTIRE enemy team can swap to the most OP hated thing for an armor tanker for FREE and rid me off the field easily.....but they dont.

You can take out some infantry with your SMG?

Do you expect to faceroll all infantry though, just because you have a SMG and are in close range?

and even in that situation ARs will still win most times unless the person is bad

In the OP you said the SMG should ALWAYS beat an AR at close range.

if both ppl can aim then in cqc the smg should have the slight advantage due to rof and better spread
ppl still havent answered why an assault rifle has better spread than an smg it makes no sense

@ Garrett i can squeeze the AR at full auto and have better hip fire than an SMG at full auto
pull out both weapons, go stand near a wall an squeeze and watch how big ur cone gets

In CQC, a slightly WIDER cone is actually more beneficial than the tight grouping with the AR though.

When running around with a SL your job is AV. You shouldn't be able to dominate too much with the SMG, even in close range.

Up against a shotgun, you should lose.

Huh? Seen a lot of combat for your expert opinion? SMGs are supposed to be center mass. Ever fired an uzi or mp5? They are dead accurate at 30 feet in burst mode or FA mode. However the accuracy does reduce over time in FA mode and thats because no one can handle the recoil for that long. Your hands start shaking.

CQC = Center Mass

the scrambler pistol is better than most primary weapons

LOL
define cqc? when ur literally kissin the dude? sorry might as well have nova knives at that point
wider cone of fire better in cqc? ok lets reward luck and spray and pray over skill.....seems like the way dust is goin less and less skill based

in EVERY FPS SMGs are the run an gun hip fire low damage weapon.
Please explain why at FULL AUTO my AR has a tighter spread than my SMG at full auto
PLEASE explain that my FULL AUTO AR has the same spread as my SMG that im burst firing in this game?

show me a game where an AR hip fires better than an SMG.
the downfall of smgs in other games has always been less range and lower damage but makes up for it in faster rof and tighter hip fire spread

ppls arguments of SMGs being sidearms so they gotta be crap compared to primary is rubbish considering the scrambler pistol is better than most primary weapons


by that logic scrambler pistols should get a severe nerf to range and damage

also the whole "its a sidearm" comment is irrelevant considering the scrambler pistol is hands down one of the best guns in the game if not THE best gun in the game

only reason ppl dont complain about the scrambler pistol being OP is because it takes alot of skill to use

@ Garrett i can squeeze the AR at full auto and have better hip fire than an SMG at full auto
pull out both weapons, go stand near a wall an squeeze and watch how big ur cone gets not sayin the AR hip fire needs nerfed just sayin the SMG hip fire is ******** compared to an AR which has much better range and stoppin power

i never see SMG kills in my matches unless ppl whip them out to finish off a target
im sure if ccp looks at the stats on smg kills compared to other weapons its gonna b one of the lowest

Well then why don't you and everyone else use that instead of the AR and other weapons?

Oi! Mav has pointed out something about SMGs that no one has pointed out about. He is doing his due deligence by pointing out an observation he made during his "beta testing". This is more than what you are doing which is trolling this post to kingdom come! None of your posts are constructive. The whole objective is to test different weapons and report bugs/feedbacks (if any) to CCP.

Comprende?

WHEN PLAYING VIDEOGAMES, a wider cone of fire is better - to a certain point - for CQC.

None of my posts are constructive? How about my first where I said the SMG could use a slight boost?

A slight boost aint constructive. A slight boost in what? Power? Ammo? Range? Accuracy? Recoil? If you are gonna be constructive you can say "The SMg could use a slight boost in range and power". Or something like that. Take your pick.

And thats why I said none of your posts are constructive.

You also said a SMG should not be able to take a guy with an AR. Seriously? If I get the drop on an AR dude or take on a noob with Light Weapon Sharpshooter Level 1 with my Sidearm Prociency level 3 you mean to tell me he should take me down?

Just writing a line out saying i want this or dont want that is not constructive. It needs more meat like a fat chick.

I haven't used the SMG in 2-3 builds, so I can't give indept feedback on what kind of improvement it needs. From what I've seen on my end though, I think it could use some kind of boost. A slight one as I said.