DUST Search - Slaughter Rule

Garrett Blacknova wrote:

R F Gyro wrote:

Garrett Blacknova wrote:

While your MCC is in retreat, you need to capture more than half the objectives before it will turn back around and re-enter the fight.

That means you HAVE to take and hold the objectives, and if you can't you lose faster. But it should take a couple of minutes for the MCC to back off far enough to trigger the defeat state, so there's a decent amount of time to turn things around.

I see the MCC retreat as a way to stay in the game, not necessarily to win it. Taking more than half of the objectives needs you to be able to be capable of winning.

I'd suggest the MCC retreat stops as soon as you start hacking an objective. This means that the losing team can easily keep the match going if they want to; its not that difficult to at least start a hack, unless you are totally, totally dominated.

When the MCC is in retreat, it doesn't seem logical that it would turn around unless there's a good chance of the fight tipping back in your favour.

If you're getting pummeled by 3 heavy weapons for long enough to decide "right, I'm out" it's going to take more than just a minor reduction in threat to bring you back - you need to see a REAL hope for the battle.

My suggestion gives you a CHANCE to turn the fight around, but doesn't just hand you a free pass to extend an obvious losing battle.

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Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1170	Posted - 2012.11.23 05:28:00 - [1] - Quote Erm, I mean tactical retreat. If all points are red, the MCC starts a 60 second countdown. If no points are hacked or converted, the MCC warps out. With this change comes removal of the redline. If you get pushed back, it's over. Try again another day. Corp battles can just remove the redline and let corps decide if they want to keep throwing money around or not. NPC's will play more on the safe side.
Reimus Klinsman BetaMax. 320	Posted - 2012.11.23 06:26:00 - [2] - Quote I approve.
Sleepy Zan Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 2048	Posted - 2012.11.23 06:48:00 - [3] - Quote Noc Tempre wrote: Corp battles can just remove the redline and let corps decide if they want to keep throwing money around or not. NPC's will play more on the safe side. Well then I want a giant webbifier to keep that MCC put.
Mister Hunt Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 230	Posted - 2012.11.23 06:51:00 - [4] - Quote But then you would run into Noc letting the other team have 1 point and keep them pinned there.
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 140	Posted - 2012.11.23 07:02:00 - [5] - Quote didn't you post this already? or am I going crazy
Jason Pearson Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 742	Posted - 2012.11.23 07:20:00 - [6] - Quote +1. While redlining results in getting plenty of kills, it gets boring.
Zat Earthshatter Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 304	Posted - 2012.11.23 07:31:00 - [7] - Quote I support this - in Star Wars Battlefront, Conquest mode was ended if a team held ALL the nodes for about 2 minutes or so. 30s-1minute is fine for the maps we have now. However, the time is going to have to be tailored to the map size and amount of nodes.
Tiel Syysch Imperfects Negative-Feedback 634	Posted - 2012.11.23 07:40:00 - [8] - Quote 1 minute sounds too short, I think 2-3 would be better. They definitely don't need to sit there getting pounded for 10 mins in their spawn, but I've seen the rare game that gets turned around after struggling with no objectives for a while. Would be good for pubs to have a kind of mercy rule though, to not waste everyone's time trying to kill all the people who are sniping in the redline because they've given up trying to push out.
Mister Hunt Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 230	Posted - 2012.11.23 08:03:00 - [9] - Quote But then you would have the tactically superior teams just not cap the final one in order to keep the killing going. Trust me, that would happen. There would be no way to stop the farming. Unless you can come up with a way to keep the system from being gamed, -1
R F Gyro ZionTCD Legacy Rising 315	Posted - 2012.11.23 10:03:00 - [10] - Quote Ooop, sorry Noc. I'd already posted this for you. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=45370&find=unread I'll shut that thread down.

Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1170	Posted - 2012.11.23 12:11:00 - [11] - Quote R F Gyro wrote: Ooop, sorry Noc. I'd already posted this for you. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=45370&find=unread I'll shut that thread down. Lol, no worries. Sometimes I miss things If I had seen that thread I would have just kept it going strong. Furthermore, gaming the system means you have to cover at least 3 spawns (the two default and the "gamed" objective). While it is still possible, it would be a lot harder than the current system.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.11.23 14:50:00 - [12] - Quote Sticking with my suggestion from the previous thread on the topic... After 1 minute with your team controlling no objectives, the MCC should start to fall back from the battlefield. It won't instantly "warp out" though, it'll only START to fall back from battle, at which point you'll have some time before it completes the retreat. While your MCC is in retreat, you need to capture more than half the objectives before it will turn back around and re-enter the fight. That means you HAVE to take and hold the objectives, and if you can't you lose faster. But it should take a couple of minutes for the MCC to back off far enough to trigger the defeat state, so there's a decent amount of time to turn things around.
R F Gyro ZionTCD Legacy Rising 315	Posted - 2012.11.23 15:27:00 - [13] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: While your MCC is in retreat, you need to capture more than half the objectives before it will turn back around and re-enter the fight. That means you HAVE to take and hold the objectives, and if you can't you lose faster. But it should take a couple of minutes for the MCC to back off far enough to trigger the defeat state, so there's a decent amount of time to turn things around. I see the MCC retreat as a way to stay in the game, not necessarily to win it. Taking more than half of the objectives needs you to be able to be capable of winning. I'd suggest the MCC retreat stops as soon as you start hacking an objective. This means that the losing team can easily keep the match going if they want to; its not that difficult to at least start a hack, unless you are totally, totally dominated.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.11.23 15:43:00 - [14] - Quote R F Gyro wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: While your MCC is in retreat, you need to capture more than half the objectives before it will turn back around and re-enter the fight. That means you HAVE to take and hold the objectives, and if you can't you lose faster. But it should take a couple of minutes for the MCC to back off far enough to trigger the defeat state, so there's a decent amount of time to turn things around. I see the MCC retreat as a way to stay in the game, not necessarily to win it. Taking more than half of the objectives needs you to be able to be capable of winning. I'd suggest the MCC retreat stops as soon as you start hacking an objective. This means that the losing team can easily keep the match going if they want to; its not that difficult to at least start a hack, unless you are totally, totally dominated. When the MCC is in retreat, it doesn't seem logical that it would turn around unless there's a good chance of the fight tipping back in your favour. If you're getting pummeled by 3 heavy weapons for long enough to decide "right, I'm out" it's going to take more than just a minor reduction in threat to bring you back - you need to see a REAL hope for the battle. My suggestion gives you a CHANCE to turn the fight around, but doesn't just hand you a free pass to extend an obvious losing battle.
SickJ French unchained corporation 48	Posted - 2012.11.23 22:25:00 - [15] - Quote Mister Hunt wrote: But then you would have the tactically superior teams just not cap the final one in order to keep the killing going. Trust me, that would happen. There would be no way to stop the farming. Unless you can come up with a way to keep the system from being gamed, -1 How about if the losing team can vote on it? 'All in favour of running away say "Aye".'
Tiel Syysch Imperfects Negative-Feedback 634	Posted - 2012.11.23 22:47:00 - [16] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: R F Gyro wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: While your MCC is in retreat, you need to capture more than half the objectives before it will turn back around and re-enter the fight. That means you HAVE to take and hold the objectives, and if you can't you lose faster. But it should take a couple of minutes for the MCC to back off far enough to trigger the defeat state, so there's a decent amount of time to turn things around. I see the MCC retreat as a way to stay in the game, not necessarily to win it. Taking more than half of the objectives needs you to be able to be capable of winning. I'd suggest the MCC retreat stops as soon as you start hacking an objective. This means that the losing team can easily keep the match going if they want to; its not that difficult to at least start a hack, unless you are totally, totally dominated. When the MCC is in retreat, it doesn't seem logical that it would turn around unless there's a good chance of the fight tipping back in your favour. If you're getting pummeled by 3 heavy weapons for long enough to decide "right, I'm out" it's going to take more than just a minor reduction in threat to bring you back - you need to see a REAL hope for the battle. My suggestion gives you a CHANCE to turn the fight around, but doesn't just hand you a free pass to extend an obvious losing battle. Just because you have none of the objectives doesn't necessarily mean you're always losing in that scenario. I've seen several games where the other team manages to break out of a redline camp and cap everything, but nobody cares because their MCC has 2 bars of health left and the team that just lost all the objectives still has half shields and they're just waiting for their MCC to kill off the other one. I'm in favor of a hack attempt resetting the timer. No way in hell should it require that you cap more than half the objectives to stop.
R F Gyro ZionTCD Legacy Rising 315	Posted - 2012.11.23 23:36:00 - [17] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: When the MCC is in retreat, it doesn't seem logical that it would turn around unless there's a good chance of the fight tipping back in your favour. TBH I'd be much more worried about enjoyable gameplay than realism in this scenario. If necessary just play an audio clip... "Ground troops to MCC, we're counter-attacking right now. Don't you leave us goddammit!"
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1170	Posted - 2012.12.05 05:38:00 - [18] - Quote NPC contracts should probably normally end in a withdraw. They are going to be conservative with their MCC's since they are footing the bill. I'd rather the round end and get another chance at it than leave the option open for an epic comeback. In the long run that gives more opportunity for fun (since comebacks are rare). Maybe a distinction for FW vs high sec. Null of course will be all on the players to decide when they are losing or winning.
Jak Teston Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 99	Posted - 2012.12.05 17:10:00 - [19] - Quote Alternatively the NULL cannon damage could be increased so that the match ends rapidly when all cannons are held by the same faction. But generally speaking I support the notion that one-sided matches should end quickly.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.12.05 17:44:00 - [20] - Quote Tiel Syysch wrote: Just because you have none of the objectives doesn't necessarily mean you're always losing in that scenario. I've seen several games where the other team manages to break out of a redline camp and cap everything, but nobody cares because their MCC has 2 bars of health left and the team that just lost all the objectives still has half shields and they're just waiting for their MCC to kill off the other one. I'm in favor of a hack attempt resetting the timer. No way in hell should it require that you cap more than half the objectives to stop. And if there's a reasonable timeframe involved for the retreat, and your MCC keep firing even as it falls back, this would still be a perfectly reasonable strategy. Also, in future, we'll hopefully have PLAYERS commanding the MCC, so they'll be able to choose whether to stick around or not.

CaptBuckle 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 10	Posted - 2012.12.05 18:36:00 - [21] - Quote SickJ wrote: Mister Hunt wrote: But then you would have the tactically superior teams just not cap the final one in order to keep the killing going. Trust me, that would happen. There would be no way to stop the farming. Unless you can come up with a way to keep the system from being gamed, -1 How about if the losing team can vote on it? 'All in favour of running away say "Aye".' Seems to me this can already happen...at least from the standpoint of material losses. The losing team could just stop spawning in and wait for the MCC to pop...or even just spawn into the MCC itself and wait it out...assuming they still want whatever SP and ISK from defeat. It does take longer to end the match that way...but at least no more material is lost, and the winning team doesn't get to use the losing team just to pad out their stats and WP. When we have a team commander position, perhaps on the advice of the squads, the decision to bug out could fall to him? One thing that is missing in this discussion is that popping the MCC is not the only way to win. It's rare, but I remember at least a few matches over the last week where our MCC was down to it's last bit of armor...but then the enemy ran out of clones. How would that possibility be handled?
Fivetimes Infinity Immobile Infantry 1086	Posted - 2012.12.05 19:33:00 - [22] - Quote Weird, this is hardly a new idea but it's strange that I never even really noticed it was absent in this game. Rapid loss after losing all points works really well in the Battlefield games. It also really makes the game require a bit more strategy, as managing to coordinate a really effective series of attacks that captures all the points can win you the game, where right now it'd just give you a fairly minor boost. Top-notch teamplay should be rewarded. Good tactics should be rewarded. And, yeah, I guess if your team is so bad by comparison you should lose the game quickly. Waiting around in the MCC for the game to end would be lame.
DarkShadowFox Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 238	Posted - 2012.12.05 20:06:00 - [23] - Quote I could see Eve being able to have like a right click on the planet, evacuate MCC option but there would be a good 20 minutes count down... and it would only be for like a losing side and you would have to have some wierd contact connection to the corp/ team on it... IDK but 60 seconds inst enough for someone to recapture an objective. can you run to an objective in 60 seconds if your redlined... you better be damn good at this game if you can..
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1170	Posted - 2012.12.06 07:06:00 - [24] - Quote DarkShadowFox wrote: I could see Eve being able to have like a right click on the planet, evacuate MCC option but there would be a good 20 minutes count down... and it would only be for like a losing side and you would have to have some wierd contact connection to the corp/ team on it... IDK but 60 seconds inst enough for someone to recapture an objective. can you run to an objective in 60 seconds if your redlined... you better be damn good at this game if you can.. The point is if everyone has been pushed back to the redline, the game's over. The grace period is to give time to finish a push if you are just swapping objectives all game.
BursegSardaukar Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance 55	Posted - 2013.01.31 17:52:00 - [25] - Quote +1 The redlining sucks for both sides. I think the MCC should wait until it is out of shields before it makes this call, to avoid a match starting awkwardly with all of one side loading before the other. Although, a potential solution (more complicated) could be a actually MOBILE mobile command center that you can park over an objective and drop out of. Maybe I'm just fantasizing about BF2142.
zaltern Resheph Interstellar Strategy Gallente Federation 2	Posted - 2013.01.31 19:20:00 - [26] - Quote terrible idea
Terry Webber Gothic Wars Consortium 35	Posted - 2013.01.31 22:03:00 - [27] - Quote There is a forum that discusses this issue and I think it provides a perfect solution. Here's the link: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=50015
Thranx1231 CowTek 90	Posted - 2013.01.31 23:36:00 - [28] - Quote BS. Just play the Kitten game already. What is with this constant whining about driving the team into the Red and now its too boring. Drop the tanks. Don't push them into the Red. Exit the Battle. Have a squad defend a letter objective. Now defend two objectives. Try three on a four or five objective map. Only play Corp battles and use whatever rules you want to there. Only play with one hand. Even if you drive them into the Red how much longer does it take to finish them off? Not long with all the Null Cannons tearing their MCC apart. A failure of imagination seems to be the one constant on these forums.
KalOfTheRathi CowTek 168	Posted - 2013.01.31 23:37:00 - [29] - Quote Terry Webber wrote: There is a forum that discusses this issue and I think it provides a perfect solution. Here's the link: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=50015 So perfect that there are only two replies on the second page.
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1170	Posted - 2013.02.01 01:10:00 - [30] - Quote Thranx1231 wrote: BS. Just play the Kitten game already. What is with this constant whining about driving the team into the Red and now its too boring. Drop the tanks. Don't push them into the Red. Exit the Battle. Have a squad defend a letter objective. Now defend two objectives. Try three on a four or five objective map. Only play Corp battles and use whatever rules you want to there. Only play with one hand. Even if you drive them into the Red how much longer does it take to finish them off? Not long with all the Null Cannons tearing their MCC apart. A failure of imagination seems to be the one constant on these forums. So if I want to have fun start tieing my hands behind my back? The redline is a problem. Hopeless games that you have to babysit the blues are a problem. Getting in a match that is already lost is a problem. I'm glad you're able to consistently find fun matches. The majority of my matches though are instant redlines followed by 15 minutes of picking off snipers. It's just not worth playing but you can't leave if you have assets on the field or want your SP.



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