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Tyrus 4
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
83
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Posted - 2012.11.13 19:58:00 -
[31] - Quote
I'm not an Imperfect, but I wholeheartedly support this idea. |
FPS LEGEND
Doomheim
100
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Posted - 2012.11.13 20:00:00 -
[32] - Quote
Omnipotens Zitro wrote:Imperfects would be interested in doing a feedback/input session in game instead of the Dev's dust match. In the voice session we can ask questions and give feedback/input. We feel this will be more valuable than playing a much against you guys. It will give you the Dev's valuable information to help make Dust 514 a better game for the whole community.
CCP please reply to acknowledge if this is possible or not. Thank you!
Only if your CEO is willing to give me their Autographed Poster ;) |
Captain-Awesome
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
349
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Posted - 2012.11.13 20:07:00 -
[33] - Quote
FPS LEGEND wrote:Omnipotens Zitro wrote:Imperfects would be interested in doing a feedback/input session in game instead of the Dev's dust match. In the voice session we can ask questions and give feedback/input. We feel this will be more valuable than playing a much against you guys. It will give you the Dev's valuable information to help make Dust 514 a better game for the whole community.
CCP please reply to acknowledge if this is possible or not. Thank you!
Only if your CEO is willing to give me their Autographed Poster ;)
he is the CEO lol |
yavor theskillless
15
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Posted - 2012.11.13 20:19:00 -
[34] - Quote
FPS LEGEND wrote:Omnipotens Zitro wrote:Imperfects would be interested in doing a feedback/input session in game instead of the Dev's dust match. In the voice session we can ask questions and give feedback/input. We feel this will be more valuable than playing a much against you guys. It will give you the Dev's valuable information to help make Dust 514 a better game for the whole community.
CCP please reply to acknowledge if this is possible or not. Thank you!
Only if your CEO is willing to give me their Autographed Poster ;)
lol. posters now? wtf did real esports get to? and i dont mean ut and the lightweights. ask gabe he'll tell you. i blocked him last week :( |
Vrain Matari
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
404
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Posted - 2012.11.13 20:21:00 -
[35] - Quote
It's a great idea, Omni. I'd feel(more or less) comfortable with you guys representing the community. I think the session would be most valuable if the minutes were posted for the community. The smartest person in the room is everybody, after all.....
I'd like to improve on your idea - do both. And have the match first. Have a debrief after that. More valuable and more fun.
And if I could make one more request - don't beat them with gun game. It will add weight to your arguments by demonstrating imbalances or issues in the design of DUST, rather than detracting from your arguments because your group might be perceived as a special case.
Good luck. |
yavor theskillless
15
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Posted - 2012.11.13 20:25:00 -
[36] - Quote
yeah good luck:P |
Free Beers
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
1032
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Posted - 2012.11.13 22:29:00 -
[37] - Quote
Vrain Matari wrote:It's a great idea, Omni. I'd feel(more or less) comfortable with you guys representing the community. I think the session would be most valuable if the minutes were posted for the community. The smartest person in the room is everybody, after all.....
I'd like to improve on your idea - do both. And have the match first. Have a debrief after that. More valuable and more fun.
And if I could make one more request - don't beat them with gun game. It will add weight to your arguments by demonstrating imbalances or issues in the design of DUST, rather than detracting from your arguments because your group might be perceived as a special case.
Good luck.
I like the idea of both. play a few matches with total war then infantry only so they can see first hand how things are. Then talk about things
Just like Zion was able to talk to Wang on podside chat was great for all of us not just Zionshad TCD. We are trying leverage our tourny victory into something that will benefit the entire dust community.
If we do get a conversation we would share it the information with all. |
Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising
886
|
Posted - 2012.11.13 23:38:00 -
[38] - Quote
Issue here is....from all of the posts, I've never seen two different imps with 2 different opinions. The lot has just liked and agreed on everything the other has said.
Which makes sense because they're in the same corp and will most likely agree with each other since they converse amongst each other. Also, they are an elite team which has a different experience than casuals and randoms. The game is different to them. A rich guy can't tell you what it is like to be poor.
So, although I support this idea & think it is an awesome one...I think the imps should use their win to ask for guys from different corps and a random or two for the Q&A session. That way, they'll get the opinion that truly represents the entire player base. |
Tiel Syysch
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
633
|
Posted - 2012.11.13 23:44:00 -
[39] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Issue here is....from all of the posts, I've never seen two different imps with 2 different opinions. The lot has just liked and agreed on everything the other has said. .
Do you know why? Because we discuss things before we post them, and when we've got the consensus on a finalized idea, then it is posted. Everyone has shaped the idea together, so of course we agree on it. They hardly start out with 100% all thinking the initial proposition is perfect just because one of us said it.
If you want to see opposition to an idea, get Telc involved in one of our discussions about tanks. |
Omnipotens Zitro
Doomheim
425
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Posted - 2012.11.14 00:01:00 -
[40] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Issue here is....from all of the posts, I've never seen two different imps with 2 different opinions. The lot has just liked and agreed on everything the other has said.
Which makes sense because they're in the same corp and will most likely agree with each other since they converse amongst each other. Also, they are an elite team which has a different experience than casuals and randoms. The game is different to them. A rich guy can't tell you what it is like to be poor.
So, although I support this idea & think it is an awesome one...I think the imps should use their win to ask for guys from different corps and a random or two for the Q&A session. That way, they'll get the opinion that truly represents the entire player base. I asked everybody with in the corp if they would like to do this before I posted. Not everybody wanted to do this but an over welming majority said that they would like to see this happen. CCP nothin and myself had an agreement from before that we will face each other 1v1. I would rather help the community as a whole than just be selfish and have the Dev battle.
Accussing us to be rich and high minding is insulting. Many of us play smart with our isk and resources. Some of us just play in militia gear to earn money. All of us donate money to each other to help our fellow mates. We have felt the pains of soloing during a battle and as a squad.
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steadyhand amarr
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
338
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Posted - 2012.11.14 00:06:00 -
[41] - Quote
i was gonna say better example would be noc and alldin :P imperfects argue a lot, and we sometimes clash but by out very nature its a better say it then keep quite so everyone view is considered which is why we are so solid so you should here us wide up omni sometimes i swear we were so close to breaking him last week :P.
tbh as we have a love hate relationship with this game. we love this game and the game is doing to best to make us hate it. so we really want a chance to get in some good solid feedback so everyone can enjoy we need more targets to shoot at tbb |
Tony Calif
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
2002
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Posted - 2012.11.14 00:13:00 -
[42] - Quote
The problem is CCP should see the discussion, not just the final idea. If CCP want to do it then that's cool, Don't take this the wrong way, but I haven't seen a thread about how you get 7000 damage from a HAV. I really havent been checking feedback side of thing much though, so might have missed it. The secret secret side of things isn't right for a beta. The tournament gave people who had found exploits or a broken mechanic, no reason to suggest something was wrong.
I suggest playing a game WITH the Devs. Actually have them play as the assault guys/tanker. Let them Devhack to 5-6mil SP, and skill how you advise. And explain WHY. Treat them as total noobs. Make them better players, with a better understanding of the how & why of FPS. That'd be far better. |
Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising
886
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Posted - 2012.11.14 00:18:00 -
[43] - Quote
.. |
Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising
886
|
Posted - 2012.11.14 00:30:00 -
[44] - Quote
Omnipotens Zitro wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Issue here is....from all of the posts, I've never seen two different imps with 2 different opinions. The lot has just liked and agreed on everything the other has said.
Which makes sense because they're in the same corp and will most likely agree with each other since they converse amongst each other. Also, they are an elite team which has a different experience than casuals and randoms. The game is different to them. A rich guy can't tell you what it is like to be poor.
So, although I support this idea & think it is an awesome one...I think the imps should use their win to ask for guys from different corps and a random or two for the Q&A session. That way, they'll get the opinion that truly represents the entire player base. I asked everybody with in the corp if they would like to do this before I posted. Not everybody wanted to do this but an over welming majority said that they would like to see this happen. CCP nothin and myself had an agreement from before that we will face each other 1v1. I would rather help the community as a whole than just be selfish and have the Dev battle. Accussing us to be rich and high minding is insulting. Many of us play smart with our isk and resources. Some of us just play in militia gear to earn money. All of us donate money to each other to help our fellow mates. We have felt the pains of soloing during a battle and as a squad.
I didn't accuse you guys of being rich and high minding.....I used that statement as an analogy. Its the same as saying you can't ask a girl what its like to be a boy. You guys are an elite corp, so you guys don't have the pains of a random. Your corp's average wlr is over a 3, I believe.
My point is you guys represent your collective thoughts only. It wouldn't be fair for one corp to represent everyone's interest...not even mine. Because we share similar views.
|
Stormy Geddon
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
39
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Posted - 2012.11.14 00:38:00 -
[45] - Quote
I love how it's taken for granted that we'll red line the Devs right off the bat.
Then they roll out in Jovian teleportation drop suits with 3000 shield and 2000 armor and happen to implement cloaking devices right before the match. Stop poking the guys who write the code.
We're all talking about a fake world where they have God powers. Keep talking crap and you'll log in and all your drop suits will be neon pink and your guns will shoot dandelions. They can do that.
Or you really **** them off and they bring back the INVALID glitch, but just for you.
I love the CSM idea, so here is the first endorsement:
Zitro brothers for DUST CSM President and VP. |
Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising
886
|
Posted - 2012.11.14 00:48:00 -
[46] - Quote
Omnipotens Zitro wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Issue here is....from all of the posts, I've never seen two different imps with 2 different opinions. The lot has just liked and agreed on everything the other has said.
Which makes sense because they're in the same corp and will most likely agree with each other since they converse amongst each other. Also, they are an elite team which has a different experience than casuals and randoms. The game is different to them. A rich guy can't tell you what it is like to be poor.
So, although I support this idea & think it is an awesome one...I think the imps should use their win to ask for guys from different corps and a random or two for the Q&A session. That way, they'll get the opinion that truly represents the entire player base. I asked everybody with in the corp if they would like to do this before I posted. Not everybody wanted to do this but an over welming majority said that they would like to see this happen. CCP nothin and myself had an agreement from before that we will face each other 1v1. I would rather help the community as a whole than just be selfish and have the Dev battle. Accussing us to be rich and high minding is insulting. Many of us play smart with our isk and resources. Some of us just play in militia gear to earn money. All of us donate money to each other to help our fellow mates. We have felt the pains of soloing during a battle and as a squad.
I didn't accuse you guys of being rich and high minding.....I used that statement as an analogy. Its the same as saying you can't ask a girl what its like to be a boy. You guys are an elite corp, so you guys don't have the pains of a random. Your corp's average wlr is over a 3, I believe.
My point is you guys represent your collective thoughts only. It wouldn't be fair for one corp to represent everyone's interest...not even mine. Because we share similar views.
|
Tiel Syysch
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
633
|
Posted - 2012.11.14 00:57:00 -
[47] - Quote
Tony Calif wrote:The problem is CCP should see the discussion, not just the final idea. If CCP want to do it then that's cool, Don't take this the wrong way, but I haven't seen a thread about how you get 7000 damage from a HAV. I really havent been checking feedback side of thing much though, so might have missed it. The secret secret side of things isn't right for a beta. The tournament gave people who had found exploits or a broken mechanic, no reason to suggest something was wrong.
I suggest playing a game WITH the Devs. Actually have them play as the assault guys/tanker. Let them Devhack to 5-6mil SP, and skill how you advise. And explain WHY. Treat them as total noobs. Make them better players, with a better understanding of the how & why of FPS. That'd be far better.
They do get to see the discussion many times. It's more captured in the why something is a problem and why the proposed solution will fix that problem. Whenever I catch a dev on IRC and bring up an issue with them, it's generally me filling their screen with text explaining everything and not just saying "fix x y and z."
I don't post things like that on the forums because I don't want to see them in-game (I haven't built that particular tank and "abused" it myself, by the way, I just know it's possible. I also can't do it even if I wanted to, as it would take a lot more SP than I currently have since I spec'd in other things instead of pushing for that). I send those kinds of amazingly broken things into the devs in private, though. The only other person outside of CCP that I had told the specific build to was Noc, who also can't build that particular fit, but we talk about balance all the time together and run numbers on things to see what kind of lol-worthy things we can theoretically make with the current build.
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:My point is you guys represent your collective thoughts only. It wouldn't be fair for one corp to represent everyone's interest...not even mine. Because we share similar views.
That's what anybody does, though. It would have to have everybody present to represent all views really, because people generally don't argue for your view if they feel it should be implemented differently (though we do have people who often propose multiple solutions to the same problem, as long as they're legitimate solutions anyway, not things like "take out tanks because I keep dying to them"). That's not to say we ignore the issues everyone wants. We have a lot of people who comb over the forums all the time and know all the major issues everyone is having with the game at any given time. We may differ on how we'd like to see them resolved, but we wouldn't ignore the issue entirely because it's not an "elite person's problem" or something. The major issues affect us all.
I wouldn't mind collecting issues people wanted brought up if they decide to let us do this, and I'd do my best to represent it in the way you intended, but I'll also throw in my suggestion regarding it if I feel it should be different. This all hinges on the amount of time that would be available for something like this, though. |
Omnipotens Zitro
Doomheim
425
|
Posted - 2012.11.14 01:00:00 -
[48] - Quote
I believe there should be a Dust CSM. If another corp won the tourney and suggested this idea. I would fully support it without question. I wouldn't cry on the forums saying that they are doing it for personal gain and don't have the interest of the community. I also wouldn't suggest there be a representative from every corp either as the winning corp rightfully won the tourney. I would congratulate them for coming up with something better than having a pointless Dev battle that would achieve nothing.
Like come on guys! We still in beta! BETA! There is no politics or advantages trying to gain in having a feedback and input session with the Dev's. Like seriously, if any other corp would of won, nobody would object to it. To object this is saying that you don't have the community in mind and are only worried about yourself and your corp. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
|
Posted - 2012.11.14 01:07:00 -
[49] - Quote
Stormy Geddon wrote:you'll log in and all your drop suits will be neon pink and your guns will shoot dandelions. I know a few people who would probably quite enjoy themselves if that happened.
Especially during a tournament or corp match. |
Nova Knife
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
784
|
Posted - 2012.11.14 01:10:00 -
[50] - Quote
Tiel Syysch wrote:If you want to see opposition to an idea, get Telc involved in one of our discussions about tanks.
Oh god. Anyone who does not hang out on the IRC does not understand the pain the above statement brings.
Also, sit-down with the devs is a nice idea. The above concerns are valid though. While I can vouch that most of the Imperfects would not simply go to CCP and say "You need to buff X" where X is something they exclusively use. They have a pretty solid understanding of what is broken with the game and do have pretty good ideas on how to put stuff on track to being awesome again. If this was to be productive on a large scale, it would need to be several hours long or done over the course of several days to ensure every topic got discussed as much as deserved, because if the live Q&A's are any indication, they usually only set aside an hour or so for stuff like this. And that simply will not cut it, IMO.
Though, while their ideas are good, the concerns about a single groups' viewpoints being heard are somewhat valid. On that note though... I do not think that an eve-style CSM would work for dust. Eve CSM is election based... and if forum likes are any indication the 'popular' people are definitely not the best people for the job. You see people who post garbage with thousands of likes, and goodposters with barely any :P
IF there was any sort of Dust CSM, I would personally prefer that the members be chosen by CCP. Or at least... The candidates being chosen by CCP from goodposters they notice! Allowing anyone to make themselves eligible is just a recipe for getting a bad CSM, IMO.
Keeping that in mind, the EVE CSM doesn't really work as a whole for dust, regardless. The EVE CSM meets maybe once a month or two, AFAIK. The playerbase for dust is potentially going to be much larger than EVE's. Having a dozen or so people represent all of those? Kinda meh.
I'd personally prefer a more open format. On X date there is a roundtable about Y topic(s), for example. Anyone can join this roundtable and offer feedback. This will of course mean that a lot of bad ideas will float around along with the good ones, but that's the point of discussion. Seeing multiple sides of something is a lot more valuable to design than just hearing "Hey guys do X" even if X is definitely the best choice, and they do it anyways! |
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Ops Fox
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
197
|
Posted - 2012.11.14 01:22:00 -
[51] - Quote
I rather hesistant to say hey go a head and rep. ALL of us just about everyone has different opinions on every issue and like you said your corp is externally single minded in its opinion well yeah yall may argue within your own chat that doesnt change the fact that the ideas of your group might be different from everyone else why should we let a small elite get auch an extreme amount of talk time with devs.
As for a dust csm we need one and I do think all the major corps should get one rep. On this csm with maybe a popular elected blueberry on there as well. However no president or single more important member thats the kind of mind set from yall I fear |
Paran Tadec
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
902
|
Posted - 2012.11.14 01:24:00 -
[52] - Quote
Thats why they are elected. And theres a thing called skype...
No trollin I promise |
Ops Fox
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
197
|
Posted - 2012.11.14 01:26:00 -
[53] - Quote
Who says we need to do a eve style CSM we are pur own group why should we have a "popular" election? Why not let every major corp ceo elected a memeber from thier corp to represent them and let the blueberrys have one popularly elected rep./ pres. |
Free Beers
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
1032
|
Posted - 2012.11.14 01:30:00 -
[54] - Quote
elected csm in dust would be horrible idea right now. Long term I reserve my opinion for another day. I would rather have ccp choose.
To many people just play 1 thing and cry nerf or aren't good at the game and therefore extremely biased.
With all honesty the player base in general in beta is average at best and loathe the idea of a casual player that goes 3/9 every match getting a say when it's their skill, abilites, understanding not the game that contributes to their success.
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Tiel Syysch
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
633
|
Posted - 2012.11.14 01:33:00 -
[55] - Quote
Ops Fox wrote:Who says we need to do a eve style CSM we are pur own group why should we have a "popular" election? Why not let every major corp ceo elected a memeber from thier corp to represent them and let the blueberrys have one popularly elected rep./ pres.
Who's to say what a "major" corp is? And you don't have to be in one to have good ideas or be rational about things, conversely just because you're in one doesn't mean your input would be worthwhile.
Regardless, this thread isn't about a Dust CSM. Go make a thread on that if you want (or find one of the existing ones, I know there are a few). |
Ops Fox
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
197
|
Posted - 2012.11.14 02:31:00 -
[56] - Quote
Tiel Syysch wrote:Ops Fox wrote:Who says we need to do a eve style CSM we are pur own group why should we have a "popular" election? Why not let every major corp ceo elected a memeber from thier corp to represent them and let the blueberrys have one popularly elected rep./ pres. Who's to say what a "major" corp is? And you don't have to be in one to have good ideas or be rational about things, conversely just because you're in one doesn't mean your input would be worthwhile. Regardless, this thread isn't about a Dust CSM. Go make a thread on that if you want (or find one of the existing ones, I know there are a few).
As for whats a great power its a little subjective but " There are no set or defined characteristics of a great power. These characteristics have often been treated as empirical, self-evident to the assessor" -wiki thats a general idea. "[major] powers characteristically possess military and economic strength and diplomatic and soft power influence which may cause-á[lesser] powers to consider the opinions of [major] powers before" -wiki tgis is a little more defined.
If you got the ability to wage war and hold your own then you count most of yousimi finals and up tourny goers with betamax and tritan included.
I did say the blueberrys get a pres. |
Sleepy Zan
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
2046
|
Posted - 2012.11.14 03:01:00 -
[57] - Quote
+1 would rather have a chat with the Devs than I would just redlining and/or cloning them. If they bring out dev hacks then that would just be annoying -_- |
Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising
886
|
Posted - 2012.11.14 03:23:00 -
[58] - Quote
Omnipotens Zitro wrote:I believe there should be a Dust CSM. If another corp won the tourney and suggested this idea. I would fully support it without question. I wouldn't cry on the forums saying that they are doing it for personal gain and don't have the interest of the community. I also wouldn't suggest there be a representative from every corp either as the winning corp rightfully won the tourney. I would congratulate them for coming up with something better than having a pointless Dev battle that would achieve nothing.
Like come on guys! We still in beta! BETA! There is no politics or advantages trying to gain in having a feedback and input session with the Dev's. Like seriously, if any other corp would of won, nobody would object to it. To object this is saying that you don't have the community in mind and are only worried about yourself and your corp.
Noone is against the idea. Whether it is the Imperfects or a 3 man newbie corp...it doesn't matter. One corp should not be the only voice because they are internally biased. I suggest that you use your win and try and negotiate a Q&A with a few scattered and well-rounded panel of testers instead of just players from one corp. |
SoTa PoP
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
1772
|
Posted - 2012.11.14 03:40:00 -
[59] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Omnipotens Zitro wrote:I believe there should be a Dust CSM. If another corp won the tourney and suggested this idea. I would fully support it without question. I wouldn't cry on the forums saying that they are doing it for personal gain and don't have the interest of the community. I also wouldn't suggest there be a representative from every corp either as the winning corp rightfully won the tourney. I would congratulate them for coming up with something better than having a pointless Dev battle that would achieve nothing.
Like come on guys! We still in beta! BETA! There is no politics or advantages trying to gain in having a feedback and input session with the Dev's. Like seriously, if any other corp would of won, nobody would object to it. To object this is saying that you don't have the community in mind and are only worried about yourself and your corp. Noone is against the idea. Whether it is the Imperfects or a 3 man newbie corp...it doesn't matter. One corp should not be the only voice because they are internally biased. I suggest that you use your win and try and negotiate a Q&A with a few scattered and well-rounded panel of testers instead of just players from one corp. I think people are being mis-lead on what's being said. Imperfect have won the right to play the devs, and have instead asked for a Q&A. What right does anyone else have to say anything about it? Who cares if there's better people who can ask better questions. Imperfects won this opportunity, give 'em suggestions incase they get there wish. And congradulations to Imperfects, you kittenholes. |
Ima Leet
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
321
|
Posted - 2012.11.14 07:05:00 -
[60] - Quote
Omnipotens Zitro wrote:I believe there should be a Dust CSM. If another corp won the tourney and suggested this idea. I would fully support it without question. I wouldn't cry on the forums saying that they are doing it for personal gain and don't have the interest of the community. I also wouldn't suggest there be a representative from every corp either as the winning corp rightfully won the tourney. I would congratulate them for coming up with something better than having a pointless Dev battle that would achieve nothing.
Like come on guys! We still in beta! BETA! There is no politics or advantages trying to gain in having a feedback and input session with the Dev's. Like seriously, if any other corp would of won, nobody would object to it. To object this is saying that you don't have the community in mind and are only worried about yourself and your corp. QFT +1
If anyone has any questions they want to ask, ask it here, this is the thread we can direct them to. |
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