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Jotun Hiem
Sanmatar Kelkoons
Minmatar Republic
412
   |
Posted - 2012.11.11 17:37:00 -
[31] - Quote
Personally, it's that some scrub up in the mountains is capable of making a nice profit off of seven or eight kills while bringing minimal risk to himself while I, as a heavy, need to put my ass on the line in nearly every engagement.
I'm up in the fight pretty much all the time unless I'm forge-gunning, but then I'm taking out vehicles and just giving the enemy a hard time while still making myself an easier target than the snipers are because that weapon lights up like a Christmas tree and requires a long charge up time to fire, and if you're forced into an infantry engagement then you better hit with your first shot or you're going down.
TL:DR, Sniping is very easy, and very low-risk when compared to most other options. |
Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
1058
|
Posted - 2012.11.11 17:46:00 -
[32] - Quote
AMARRKIS wrote:
A sniper is not meant to go on the frontlines so i dont see how you can be mad about that. If I have a sniper rifle im not going to go to the front lines
Countersnipers go on the frontlines- just bring up your scrambler pistol operation and sidearm sharpshooter. Then you'll notice you're not only effective with picking off targets outside of the range of ARs, but also that other snipers (which are being useless) are VERY easy targets for you. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
|
Posted - 2012.11.11 17:47:00 -
[33] - Quote
AMARRKIS wrote:What? Im still not getting you just about everyone here in the beta now will be in a corp. I thought that they said once everything is done or watever that contracts will be the only way to obtain isk. So im doubting that ppl that really dont play sniper will be playing anymore to save their suit sense it wont help them if they keep losing. Also in doing a contact Im pretty sure you wont be just playing randoms.
Most of US will be in corps, yes, but what about the day-one players?
And which part of "NPC contracts" implies that there isn't a contract involved?
NPC contracts are still contracts. And they're the system under which we're currently playing, for the most part. You might want to note the use of the word "contract" in the phrase "NPC contract" - just driving that point home, since you seem not to have seen it earlier. NPC CONTRACT. |
Cortez The Killer
Immobile Infantry
187
|
Posted - 2012.11.11 17:47:00 -
[34] - Quote
AMARRKIS wrote:Knightshade Belladonna wrote:I don't think the real problem is a single sniper, or a handful of snipers. When I begin to get pissed at snipers it is when theres like a dozen that wont go out in the field because they to scared and just sit back under the mcc or something sniping entire match. I see this alot on the Manus peak map , I believe that's the map.. It happens so often that now when I see the trend begin , I say fk it and grab a militia sniper aswell.. no point in me suiciding A sniper is not meant to go on the frontlines so i dont see how you can be mad about that. If I have a sniper rifle im not going to go to the front lines
Agreed, mostly. Sitting up on a hill somewhere overwatching an objective or chokepoint gets boring as hell though. I've had moderate success with a ground level tac sniper rifle/ firefly kit. My skills are already heavy on dropsuit command and sensor dampening, with added hacking skills and a running speed mod, he darts around from cover to cover hacking and pot-shotting. The kit runs approx 18k, is paper thin, and a whole lot more fun than parking up on a hill. Sometimes it works absolutely horribly, sometimes I can top the WP board on hacks and team spawns alone. Every once in a while I get the treat of sneaking up on a NULL cannon guard and unloading the SMG right between the shoulderblades. Not bad for what started as a comedy gimmick fit.
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AMARRKIS
BetaMax.
71
|
Posted - 2012.11.11 17:58:00 -
[35] - Quote
fenrir storm wrote:AMARRKIS wrote:Knightshade Belladonna wrote:I don't think the real problem is a single sniper, or a handful of snipers. When I begin to get pissed at snipers it is when theres like a dozen that wont go out in the field because they to scared and just sit back under the mcc or something sniping entire match. I see this alot on the Manus peak map , I believe that's the map.. It happens so often that now when I see the trend begin , I say fk it and grab a militia sniper aswell.. no point in me suiciding A sniper is not meant to go on the frontlines so i dont see how you can be mad about that. If I have a sniper rifle im not going to go to the front lines Errrrrrrrrr what. Thats exactly what a snipers job is not sitting a million miles in the rear , they are up front evadeing detection and causeing mayhem, at least thats what my old seargent used to tel us.
That if you get all your hacking and running skills up yea maybe. But out suit will be very weak against gun fire so i dont see how much mayhem we could cause. But for the most part this scout suit is not meant for frontline action now maybe if we had some cloaking and better sneak attacks and such then sure but no. A sniper rifle is meant to be used for long range. |
AMARRKIS
BetaMax.
71
|
Posted - 2012.11.11 18:05:00 -
[36] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:AMARRKIS wrote:What? Im still not getting you just about everyone here in the beta now will be in a corp. I thought that they said once everything is done or watever that contracts will be the only way to obtain isk. So im doubting that ppl that really dont play sniper will be playing anymore to save their suit sense it wont help them if they keep losing. Also in doing a contact Im pretty sure you wont be just playing randoms. Most of US will be in corps, yes, but what about the day-one players? And which part of "NPC contracts" implies that there isn't a contract involved? NPC contracts are still contracts. And they're the system under which we're currently playing, for the most part. You might want to note the use of the word "contract" in the phrase "NPC contract" - just driving that point home, since you seem not to have seen it earlier. NPC CONTRACT.
We wont be playing against against those players if your in a corp. You'll be playing against other corps in actual contracts
thats is what im getting at |
Tyrus 4
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
83
|
Posted - 2012.11.11 18:10:00 -
[37] - Quote
Sniping is very, very easy in this game.
thats why I don't do it. I should just snipe in the starter fit until I get enough isk to buy my heavy suit skill book (started a new character).
Sniping is what I usually do in these types of games. Sniping is what I did in Planetside practically the whole 2 years I played it. But in this game, it is too easy, and you can't swing a stick without hitting some Kitten in a scout suit with a sniper rifle.
so I decided to do something else. |
Richard Sebire
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2012.11.11 18:55:00 -
[38] - Quote
Richard Sebire wrote:I've just spent a ton upgrading all the light weapon stuff and will report back soon if it has actually made a difference. Thanks for the help again
         
Ok, so I've upgraded my scout suit to the level 2 suit, it really hasn't made a difference. I can still be killed with one shoot.
I've upgraded my weapon skill till level 5, my sniper recoil to level 4 and my sniper proficiency to level 2 as well.
Doing this has taken me ages since the last reset. And after pouring all my isk and sp into, so far there's no real difference. It still takes two shoots to take somebody out, and you can still be 1 shoot killed.
After doing another ton of sp and isk on the light weapon upgrades, there is still no difference.
The only difference between the stock sniper and the super sniper I'm trying to create is around 10 HP, and 3 extra bullets in the magazine. I'm going to keep trying though, maybe sooner or later, the sniper class won't be so rubbish.
The logistics are even better than the snipers and there rubbish too.
The sp cap gets reset every Wednesday, and it's only Sunday now and I'm already being capped.
Grrrrr
     |
Tyrus 4
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
83
|
Posted - 2012.11.11 18:57:00 -
[39] - Quote
stop using the scout suit to snipe.
use the assault suit. |
Mister Hunt
Sanmatar Kelkoons
Minmatar Republic
230
|
Posted - 2012.11.11 19:04:00 -
[40] - Quote
AMARRKIS wrote:Vallud Eadesso wrote:It's simple really. 1 good sniper is all the team needs. And if he's good, he's bearly shooting. He's in constant communication with the leaders and forever feeding them info. He only shoots in self defence or to take out a high priority target who's giving the ground team hell. In reality, snipers on ops shoot about once per engagement IF they're lucky. What you want to play as is NOT a sniper. You want to play as what the military calls a designated marksman. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Designated_marksmanPeople see DMs and instantly think he's a sniper. He's not. He extends the operational and operative range of the squad he is attached to. Snipers are attached to platoons in pairs. Therefore there 2 snipers for around every 40 men. People also get annoyed because out of 14 players per team, 9 on each will be 'snipers' who are complete and utter dead weight to the team, who never cap or protect objectives, who never actually seem to lower their scope and do nothing but look at their own K\D. They also don't fit in to a shooter based around teamwork. I personally thing the class needs a RADICAL redesign, or left as is but limited to 2 per team per game. Because right now, having snipers on your own team almost gurantees you've lost. Especially if there is more than 3. Well for one there is no way that a team on any of these maps need just one sniper. Y because it is impossible for just one sniper to view the entire battle field angle wise. So just having one would be very stressful for that person. 3 would seem like more of a minimum for these maps. Also just because you have more snipers on your team doesnt mean that you've lost. If they can all work together then you have a much better chance at winning.
I can overwatch on Manu Peaks by myself, you just have to know where to park. Try again. Basically Amarrkis, snipers in this game are a detriment to the team. Can you tell me with a straight face that 9 snipers on the hills on Manus Peak will do ANYTHING to take at least 2/3 of the objectives that is needed to win? Nope, they are just going to sit there and wonder why suddenly the other team has 3 points and they are being pushed back into their spawn. |
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
|
Posted - 2012.11.11 19:17:00 -
[41] - Quote
AMARRKIS wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:AMARRKIS wrote:What? Im still not getting you just about everyone here in the beta now will be in a corp. I thought that they said once everything is done or watever that contracts will be the only way to obtain isk. So im doubting that ppl that really dont play sniper will be playing anymore to save their suit sense it wont help them if they keep losing. Also in doing a contact Im pretty sure you wont be just playing randoms. Most of US will be in corps, yes, but what about the day-one players? And which part of "NPC contracts" implies that there isn't a contract involved? NPC contracts are still contracts. And they're the system under which we're currently playing, for the most part. You might want to note the use of the word "contract" in the phrase "NPC contract" - just driving that point home, since you seem not to have seen it earlier. NPC CONTRACT. We wont be playing against against those players if your in a corp. You'll be playing against other corps in actual contracts thats is what im getting at
So basically, "doesn't matter, won't affect me" then?
Great attitude towards testing. |
KripnawtiQ Prime
L.O.T.I.S.
Legacy Rising
206
|
Posted - 2012.11.11 19:38:00 -
[42] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:From what I've seen, the majority of people's problems are with sniping being too easy, and with there being too many snipers.
It's not about the good snipers being good at being snipers. It's about the game making BAD snipers a viable method of earning money with minimal personal risk. You can be a bad sniper and still get a good K/D, and because you're not dying much (if at all), you're seeing almost all the post-battle income as pure profit.
Good snipers are fine. But the game makes things too easy for BAD snipers as well.
TL;DR
This. And it isn't that most players hate snipers. Its that at the lower levels sniping is way too easy. Assault classes take at least an investment of just over 1million SP to unlock the Duvolle. The heavy class is extremely thankless at lower levels...it takes a large investment of SP to be truly effective. On the other hand, you can pick up the food stamp brand sniper fit and own from your campground somewhere on top of a building or in the mountains on Manus Peak.
EDIT: Just saying. I don't personally hate on people playing the game whichever way they choose |
Vallud Eadesso
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
63
|
Posted - 2012.11.11 20:46:00 -
[43] - Quote
AMARRKIS wrote:Knightshade Belladonna wrote:I don't think the real problem is a single sniper, or a handful of snipers. When I begin to get pissed at snipers it is when theres like a dozen that wont go out in the field because they to scared and just sit back under the mcc or something sniping entire match. I see this alot on the Manus peak map , I believe that's the map.. It happens so often that now when I see the trend begin , I say fk it and grab a militia sniper aswell.. no point in me suiciding A sniper is not meant to go on the frontlines so i dont see how you can be mad about that. If I have a sniper rifle im not going to go to the front lines
Please go back and read my post about the difference between a Designated Marksman and a Sniper. Let me make this clear: You are NOT a sniper. There is NO sniper class in this game! It is INCORRECTLY named and you're actually playing as a Designated Marksman. You're job is to extend the operational (Read: Lethal) range of your squad. You are supposed to be on the front line, right next to your squad leader hitting priority targets and suppressing others so the actual killers of your unit (HMGs and AR) can get close enough to cause the real damage.
A sniper, that is, a true sniper... is more of a scout. He rarely fires his gun and spends 99% of his time on a radio. A marksman however is with the squad, giving them nearly double the lethal range and covering the rest of the squad with accurate fire. If you lone wolf, you're doing it COMPLETELY wrong. |
AMARRKIS
BetaMax.
71
|
Posted - 2012.11.11 21:09:00 -
[44] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:AMARRKIS wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:AMARRKIS wrote:What? Im still not getting you just about everyone here in the beta now will be in a corp. I thought that they said once everything is done or watever that contracts will be the only way to obtain isk. So im doubting that ppl that really dont play sniper will be playing anymore to save their suit sense it wont help them if they keep losing. Also in doing a contact Im pretty sure you wont be just playing randoms. Most of US will be in corps, yes, but what about the day-one players? And which part of "NPC contracts" implies that there isn't a contract involved? NPC contracts are still contracts. And they're the system under which we're currently playing, for the most part. You might want to note the use of the word "contract" in the phrase "NPC contract" - just driving that point home, since you seem not to have seen it earlier. NPC CONTRACT. We wont be playing against against those players if your in a corp. You'll be playing against other corps in actual contracts thats is what im getting at So basically, "doesn't matter, won't affect me" then? Great attitude towards testing.
What now your just saying stuff. Im telling you what the devs told us nothing more nothing less. Also what great attitude what attitude am i having? |
AMARRKIS
BetaMax.
71
|
Posted - 2012.11.11 21:12:00 -
[45] - Quote
Vallud Eadesso wrote:AMARRKIS wrote:Knightshade Belladonna wrote:I don't think the real problem is a single sniper, or a handful of snipers. When I begin to get pissed at snipers it is when theres like a dozen that wont go out in the field because they to scared and just sit back under the mcc or something sniping entire match. I see this alot on the Manus peak map , I believe that's the map.. It happens so often that now when I see the trend begin , I say fk it and grab a militia sniper aswell.. no point in me suiciding A sniper is not meant to go on the frontlines so i dont see how you can be mad about that. If I have a sniper rifle im not going to go to the front lines Please go back and read my post about the difference between a Designated Marksman and a Sniper. Let me make this clear: You are NOT a sniper. There is NO sniper class in this game! It is INCORRECTLY named and you're actually playing as a Designated Marksman. You're job is to extend the operational (Read: Lethal) range of your squad. You are supposed to be on the front line, right next to your squad leader hitting priority targets and suppressing others so the actual killers of your unit (HMGs and AR) can get close enough to cause the real damage. A sniper, that is, a true sniper... is more of a scout. He rarely fires his gun and spends 99% of his time on a radio. A marksman however is with the squad, giving them nearly double the lethal range and covering the rest of the squad with accurate fire. If you lone wolf, you're doing it COMPLETELY wrong.
Again let me make this clear that scout suit an the type of weapons available for it is not meant to be on the front lines whats so ever. It in now way is even remotely built to be able to handle any front line action. |
Cortez The Killer
Immobile Infantry
187
|
Posted - 2012.11.11 21:15:00 -
[46] - Quote
Vallud Eadesso wrote:AMARRKIS wrote:Knightshade Belladonna wrote:I don't think the real problem is a single sniper, or a handful of snipers. When I begin to get pissed at snipers it is when theres like a dozen that wont go out in the field because they to scared and just sit back under the mcc or something sniping entire match. I see this alot on the Manus peak map , I believe that's the map.. It happens so often that now when I see the trend begin , I say fk it and grab a militia sniper aswell.. no point in me suiciding A sniper is not meant to go on the frontlines so i dont see how you can be mad about that. If I have a sniper rifle im not going to go to the front lines Please go back and read my post about the difference between a Designated Marksman and a Sniper. Let me make this clear: You are NOT a sniper. There is NO sniper class in this game! It is INCORRECTLY named and you're actually playing as a Designated Marksman. You're job is to extend the operational (Read: Lethal) range of your squad. You are supposed to be on the front line, right next to your squad leader hitting priority targets and suppressing others so the actual killers of your unit (HMGs and AR) can get close enough to cause the real damage. A sniper, that is, a true sniper... is more of a scout. He rarely fires his gun and spends 99% of his time on a radio. A marksman however is with the squad, giving them nearly double the lethal range and covering the rest of the squad with accurate fire. If you lone wolf, you're doing it COMPLETELY wrong.
What you are takling about as a Designated Marksman, within this game, is the suit with a tactical assault rifle and Light Weapon Sharpshooter/Proficiency trained. Whether you agree with the semantics or not, there is a sniper class in this game. It uses sniper rifles, sniper rifle skills to train, and relies on not being seen or shot to work. If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck.. it's probably a duck.
Many people that actually play the sniper class beyond the starter fits would agree that a useful sniper does provide forward intel, but also operates *mostly* independently of a squad on the ground. Contrary to whatever recruitment video you may have seen, a sniper/spotter unit does actually operate usually as an independent lone wolf team, and is definitely not emitting radio signals 99% of the time. In any case, this ain't the Marine Corps or the Navy SEALs.
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Vincam Velmoriar
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
103
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Posted - 2012.11.11 21:23:00 -
[47] - Quote
Let me start with this: I snipe with this character and I run an AR but my alt is a designated marksman (yes, I run with squads) AND I'm in the top 75 of KDR with over 1000 kills. Just want to give my qualifications before I make a point.
Vallud is on the money. Completely agree with his analysis. Your job is to take out long range targets so your squad can do its job, namely cap objectives. If you're in the hills, intel should be your main priority.
Half of a team "sniping" means a loss. We can all agree on that. People don't hate snipers, they hate 1) the ease of sniping, the 2) relative low risk, and 3) the disregard some snipers have for winning.
There's a thread on here about the economics of sniping (titled "what's going on" or something) and it's quite good. Anyone interested in the problems with sniping should check it out. But basically, he argues that there's no reward for winning, and that promotes sniping. I agree, but that's not the only problem. Ease of use is, like a lot have mentioned, a problem as well.
I, personally, can't wait until travel time and bullet drop are implemented for all the sniper rifles. That will be a wonderful day, because you will see a drop in snipers (although there will always be people who sit in the mountains for fear of dying). But I've been using the experimental rifle almost exclusively lately, and it's sooooo much more fun than the others. When you drop someone on the run with a headshot it's infinitely more gratifying. It actually takes some skill. Try it out. It's good times.  |
AMARRKIS
BetaMax.
71
|
Posted - 2012.11.11 21:26:00 -
[48] - Quote
Mister Hunt wrote:AMARRKIS wrote:Vallud Eadesso wrote:It's simple really. 1 good sniper is all the team needs. And if he's good, he's bearly shooting. He's in constant communication with the leaders and forever feeding them info. He only shoots in self defence or to take out a high priority target who's giving the ground team hell. In reality, snipers on ops shoot about once per engagement IF they're lucky. What you want to play as is NOT a sniper. You want to play as what the military calls a designated marksman. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Designated_marksmanPeople see DMs and instantly think he's a sniper. He's not. He extends the operational and operative range of the squad he is attached to. Snipers are attached to platoons in pairs. Therefore there 2 snipers for around every 40 men. People also get annoyed because out of 14 players per team, 9 on each will be 'snipers' who are complete and utter dead weight to the team, who never cap or protect objectives, who never actually seem to lower their scope and do nothing but look at their own K\D. They also don't fit in to a shooter based around teamwork. I personally thing the class needs a RADICAL redesign, or left as is but limited to 2 per team per game. Because right now, having snipers on your own team almost gurantees you've lost. Especially if there is more than 3. Well for one there is no way that a team on any of these maps need just one sniper. Y because it is impossible for just one sniper to view the entire battle field angle wise. So just having one would be very stressful for that person. 3 would seem like more of a minimum for these maps. Also just because you have more snipers on your team doesnt mean that you've lost. If they can all work together then you have a much better chance at winning. I can overwatch on Manu Peaks by myself, you just have to know where to park. Try again. Basically Amarrkis, snipers in this game are a detriment to the team. Can you tell me with a straight face that 9 snipers on the hills on Manus Peak will do ANYTHING to take at least 2/3 of the objectives that is needed to win? Nope, they are just going to sit there and wonder why suddenly the other team has 3 points and they are being pushed back into their spawn.
I said if they work together. Now yes having 9 ppl in the same location is pretty stupid. But if they were to spread out and communicate with both the team and amongst themselves then that would be different |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
|
Posted - 2012.11.11 21:28:00 -
[49] - Quote
AMARRKIS wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:AMARRKIS wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:AMARRKIS wrote:What? Im still not getting you just about everyone here in the beta now will be in a corp. I thought that they said once everything is done or watever that contracts will be the only way to obtain isk. So im doubting that ppl that really dont play sniper will be playing anymore to save their suit sense it wont help them if they keep losing. Also in doing a contact Im pretty sure you wont be just playing randoms. Most of US will be in corps, yes, but what about the day-one players? And which part of "NPC contracts" implies that there isn't a contract involved? NPC contracts are still contracts. And they're the system under which we're currently playing, for the most part. You might want to note the use of the word "contract" in the phrase "NPC contract" - just driving that point home, since you seem not to have seen it earlier. NPC CONTRACT. We wont be playing against against those players if your in a corp. You'll be playing against other corps in actual contracts thats is what im getting at So basically, "doesn't matter, won't affect me" then? Great attitude towards testing. What now your just saying stuff. Im telling you what the devs told us nothing more nothing less. Also what great attitude what attitude am i having?
I'm trying to point out something that currently DOES affect players, and if sniping mechanics don't change, will CONTINUE to affect players, with regards to how sniping works.
The ONLY argument you can level against me is that it doesn't matter because "everyone HERE will be in a corp anyway"
That sounds like the new players who pick the game up post-release don't matter at all to you. The people who are just going to play casually, and not join a corp don't matter to you. As far as you're concerned, anyone but people involved in player corporations is irrelevant, because you're not one of those players.
THAT attitude.
I'm not saying this because I expect to be personally affected by it post-release. I'm saying it because I can see how a NEW PLAYER WITHOUT A CORP will react if the mechanics and rewards for sniping aren't changed. |
Eternal Technique
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
281
|
Posted - 2012.11.12 00:20:00 -
[50] - Quote
Vallud Eadesso wrote:AMARRKIS wrote:Knightshade Belladonna wrote:I don't think the real problem is a single sniper, or a handful of snipers. When I begin to get pissed at snipers it is when theres like a dozen that wont go out in the field because they to scared and just sit back under the mcc or something sniping entire match. I see this alot on the Manus peak map , I believe that's the map.. It happens so often that now when I see the trend begin , I say fk it and grab a militia sniper aswell.. no point in me suiciding A sniper is not meant to go on the frontlines so i dont see how you can be mad about that. If I have a sniper rifle im not going to go to the front lines Please go back and read my post about the difference between a Designated Marksman and a Sniper. Let me make this clear: You are NOT a sniper. There is NO sniper class in this game! It is INCORRECTLY named and you're actually playing as a Designated Marksman. You're job is to extend the operational (Read: Lethal) range of your squad. You are supposed to be on the front line, right next to your squad leader hitting priority targets and suppressing others so the actual killers of your unit (HMGs and AR) can get close enough to cause the real damage. A sniper, that is, a true sniper... is more of a scout. He rarely fires his gun and spends 99% of his time on a radio. A marksman however is with the squad, giving them nearly double the lethal range and covering the rest of the squad with accurate fire. If you lone wolf, you're doing it COMPLETELY wrong.
Sniper mechanisms currently discourage the DM playstyle. That role is played best by the tactical AR. If you want to see more of that playstyle among snipers, then snipers would actually need a significant buff |
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AMARRKIS
BetaMax.
71
|
Posted - 2012.11.12 00:35:00 -
[51] - Quote
AMARRKIS wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:AMARRKIS wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:AMARRKIS wrote:
Most of US will be in corps, yes, but what about the day-one players?
And which part of "NPC contracts" implies that there isn't a contract involved?
NPC contracts are still contracts. And they're the system under which we're currently playing, for the most part. You might want to note the use of the word "contract" in the phrase "NPC contract" - just driving that point home, since you seem not to have seen it earlier. NPC CONTRACT.
We wont be playing against against those players if your in a corp. You'll be playing against other corps in actual contracts thats is what im getting at So basically, "doesn't matter, won't affect me" then? Great attitude towards testing. What now your just saying stuff. Im telling you what the devs told us nothing more nothing less. Also what great attitude what attitude am i having? I'm trying to point out something that currently DOES affect players, and if sniping mechanics don't change, will CONTINUE to affect players, with regards to how sniping works. The ONLY argument you can level against me is that it doesn't matter because "everyone HERE will be in a corp anyway" That sounds like the new players who pick the game up post-release don't matter at all to you. The people who are just going to play casually, and not join a corp don't matter to you. As far as you're concerned, anyone but people involved in player corporations is irrelevant, because you're not one of those players. THAT attitude. I'm not saying this because I expect to be personally affected by it post-release. I'm saying it because I can see how a NEW PLAYER WITHOUT A CORP will react if the mechanics and rewards for sniping aren't changed.
Well the y dont you say that then. You go and think i have some attitude because you didnt make your self clear. Sorry i cant read minds after 2:00. Also yes i guess some people could get frustrated at the fact that people are playing the sniper class because they want to save up money. I still dont get the problem only that they dont really work with the team and one another. |
BASSMEANT
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
109
|
Posted - 2012.11.12 01:18:00 -
[52] - Quote
never seen a larger group of people work harder to defend their bs game play "style".
if you guys have to go this far to defend your crappy "help"
then it's pretty obvious you guys are the only ones who just don't get it.
you spend nothing. you hide.
you can't arm, you can't heal, you can't repair.
if the team loses, who cares?
your precious kd is intact and you spent nothiing on gear
if the team wins, your kd is the same and your expenses are the same
but now you get to put a +1 in the win column because everyone else carried you to the win line.
friggin anchors.
you provide no recon.
you still expect a squad of 4 to work with 3 people on the field and you in the mountains
AND
you have the balls to request fragos.
any squad leader who spams points off an anchor sniper is possibly as bad as the sniper himself.
sorry... my bad.
herself.
when they push out the new sniper build... it should come with a box of choclates and a case of tampons
Peace
B |
Cortez The Killer
Immobile Infantry
187
|
Posted - 2012.11.12 01:39:00 -
[53] - Quote
Personally I could give a crap about K/D. It's more about giggling as I pop some guy that just solo'd five blues just to get sniped as he goes to the hack point, knowing that he will be so fuming mad that he'll make a sniper rage post. |
Knightshade Belladonna
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
288
|
Posted - 2012.11.12 01:40:00 -
[54] - Quote
Cortez The Killer wrote:Personally I could give a crap about K/D. It's more about giggling as I pop some guy that just solo'd five blues just to get sniped as he goes to the hack point, knowing that he will be so fuming mad that he'll make a sniper rage post.
evil |
Tyrus 4
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
83
|
Posted - 2012.11.12 01:45:00 -
[55] - Quote
Snipers are a part of the game, just like Vehicles are.
kinda sucks when there are 63 of them on your team in a match, but what can you do.
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Tyrus 4
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
83
|
Posted - 2012.11.12 01:45:00 -
[56] - Quote
Cortez The Killer wrote:Personally I could give a crap about K/D. It's more about giggling as I pop some guy that just solo'd five blues just to get sniped as he goes to the hack point, knowing that he will be so fuming mad that he'll make a sniper rage post.
I giggle when I hit a sniper with my forge gun and he disintegrates right there in his sniper perch.
thats happened a couple of times. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
|
Posted - 2012.11.12 02:03:00 -
[57] - Quote
Tyrus 4 wrote:Snipers are a part of the game, just like Vehicles are.
kinda sucks when there are 63 of them on your team in a match, but what can you do.
You can change either the sniper mechanics or the game's reward system so that non-contributing redline snipers don't get as well rewarded, or have a harder time achieving anything without some measure of risk. |
Sleepy Zan
Internal Error.
Negative-Feedback
2047
|
Posted - 2012.11.12 02:10:00 -
[58] - Quote
AMARRKIS wrote:Vallud Eadesso wrote:AMARRKIS wrote:Knightshade Belladonna wrote:I don't think the real problem is a single sniper, or a handful of snipers. When I begin to get pissed at snipers it is when theres like a dozen that wont go out in the field because they to scared and just sit back under the mcc or something sniping entire match. I see this alot on the Manus peak map , I believe that's the map.. It happens so often that now when I see the trend begin , I say fk it and grab a militia sniper aswell.. no point in me suiciding A sniper is not meant to go on the frontlines so i dont see how you can be mad about that. If I have a sniper rifle im not going to go to the front lines Please go back and read my post about the difference between a Designated Marksman and a Sniper. Let me make this clear: You are NOT a sniper. There is NO sniper class in this game! It is INCORRECTLY named and you're actually playing as a Designated Marksman. You're job is to extend the operational (Read: Lethal) range of your squad. You are supposed to be on the front line, right next to your squad leader hitting priority targets and suppressing others so the actual killers of your unit (HMGs and AR) can get close enough to cause the real damage. A sniper, that is, a true sniper... is more of a scout. He rarely fires his gun and spends 99% of his time on a radio. A marksman however is with the squad, giving them nearly double the lethal range and covering the rest of the squad with accurate fire. If you lone wolf, you're doing it COMPLETELY wrong. Again let me make this clear that scout suit an the type of weapons available for it is not meant to be on the front lines whats so ever. It in now way is even remotely built to be able to handle any front line action.
Don't limit your options, the sniper is just another gun that happens to have a low rof and high damage output. |
HECATONCHIRES COTTUS
Doomheim
14
|
Posted - 2012.11.12 02:14:00 -
[59] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:From what I've seen, the majority of people's problems are with sniping being too easy, and with there being too many snipers.
It's not about the good snipers being good at being snipers. It's about the game making BAD snipers a viable method of earning money with minimal personal risk. You can be a bad sniper and still get a good K/D, and because you're not dying much (if at all), you're seeing almost all the post-battle income as pure profit.
Good snipers are fine. But the game makes things too easy for BAD snipers as well. Amen, brother. This is why CCP Wolfman is currently retooling sniper weapons such that the shooter will have to account for projectile travel time and bullet drop when shooting, such that a certain skill level is necessary to use these weapons. In my opinion, the primary issue with snipers is the extremely low skill ceiling to becoming one. If you're as good as some of the ones we all know from the killfeed, you can have people hanging around the edges of the map trying to stay alive. However, as Garrett said, you can also be a lousy shot, and still come out on top in income because you're hiding away where no one can see you, getting a single kill each match and raking in the rewards. I see this change that is being worked on as we speak as a way to raise the skill ceiling far above what it is now, and reward the better shooters while removing the easy route from those without sufficient skill. There will always be casual gamers, and CCP is doing their part to ensure that those people are on the field with us where they belong, not being useless redline snipers for personal profit. No he isnt stop lieing.They just need to ove the redline back on that map on that mountain side...thats all.HE is not retooling anything. |
Nova Knife
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
784
|
Posted - 2012.11.12 02:20:00 -
[60] - Quote
Someone else said something similar above, but...
There are generally two kinds of snipers.
One who sits in a 'remote' far off place that the enemy generally won't look or shoot at them, and has a very narrow FoV of the battlefield, and just pops off shots with varying degress of success at the few people they see during the match.
One who travels with their team but hanging back somewhat, covering them as they capture objectives making sure no one sneaks up on their squad while they do their thing. I have only seen two or three snipers actually do this in almost 8 months of playing Dust. I have cried a small tear of joy each time I see it.
The first is an example of a horrible style of gameplay in an objective based game mode. In a deathmatch it is slightly more acceptable, but still less effective than the second method in nearly every scenario. In other games where KDR is far more important than the win, the first is an effective and excellent way to pad your stats. However, in Dust gaining the win as a team is far more important than KDR. When people are handing out contracts, people will not care what your mercs' KDR is, they will only care about how often you win. They won't care if you can get 40 kills a match sniping if your team still loses!
Now, people who adopt the first style as their own might say "Yeah, but those 40 kills a match let my team move forward and capture stuff because dudes are dead and not able to shoot them!" or some such nonsense. But really : A far out place generally can only cover one area decently. Can you honestly use that line, if your cliff is overlooking C, but your team is getting slaughtered by the enemy at A (which you do not have a clear shot to) and none of your team is even trying to take C?
Seriously. Cliff snipers, find yourself a squad. Learn to move with them in ways that cover them. You don't need to be on the front line, but if you're staying in one spot for the majority of the match, you're just robbing yourself of kills and a win. I can promise you that once you get yourself a squad (even if they are just random nubs) or if you just move around covering your team as they take each objective, your kill count will rise drastically. You will die a bit more often but your KDR will still remain well over positive. It might even go up because you're putting yourself constantly in a position that puts more enemies inside your scope!
And corps : If you find a cliff sniper, take him under your wing. Teach him to cover your squads properly and watch your corps' overall effectiveness skyrocket! |
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