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Garrett Blacknova
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1849
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Posted - 2012.11.11 13:00:00 -
[1] - Quote
From what I've seen, the majority of people's problems are with sniping being too easy, and with there being too many snipers.
It's not about the good snipers being good at being snipers. It's about the game making BAD snipers a viable method of earning money with minimal personal risk. You can be a bad sniper and still get a good K/D, and because you're not dying much (if at all), you're seeing almost all the post-battle income as pure profit.
Good snipers are fine. But the game makes things too easy for BAD snipers as well. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
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Posted - 2012.11.11 14:02:00 -
[2] - Quote
AMARRKIS wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:From what I've seen, the majority of people's problems are with sniping being too easy, and with there being too many snipers.
It's not about the good snipers being good at being snipers. It's about the game making BAD snipers a viable method of earning money with minimal personal risk. You can be a bad sniper and still get a good K/D, and because you're not dying much (if at all), you're seeing almost all the post-battle income as pure profit.
Good snipers are fine. But the game makes things too easy for BAD snipers as well. Well i would think once everything starts moving to contract and corp battle then I would think that this would be a problem any more. Or at least hopefully it wouldnt be a problem anymore.
There will always be casual players.
There will always be a system for casual players to take NPC contracts.
There will always be a need for the game to be balanced with those problems in mind. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
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Posted - 2012.11.11 14:39:00 -
[3] - Quote
AMARRKIS wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:AMARRKIS wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:From what I've seen, the majority of people's problems are with sniping being too easy, and with there being too many snipers.
It's not about the good snipers being good at being snipers. It's about the game making BAD snipers a viable method of earning money with minimal personal risk. You can be a bad sniper and still get a good K/D, and because you're not dying much (if at all), you're seeing almost all the post-battle income as pure profit.
Good snipers are fine. But the game makes things too easy for BAD snipers as well. Well i would think once everything starts moving to contract and corp battle then I would think that this would be a problem any more. Or at least hopefully it wouldnt be a problem anymore. There will always be casual players. There will always be a system for casual players to take NPC contracts. There will always be a need for the game to be balanced with those problems in mind. What? casual players wont be playing against corps unless those casual players are in a corp that is.
Re-read my first post. Re-quote it. Show me where I said anything about the problems with snipers being corp-related. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
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Posted - 2012.11.11 16:34:00 -
[4] - Quote
AMARRKIS wrote:Um you said "there will always be casual players" and i said " casual player wont be playing in any corp battles and contracts . since when the game goes full on is what every one since it will be the only was to get isk and such.
Whether a bad sniper is in a corp or not, and whether a casual player is in a corp or not, the current sniping mechanics along with how the weapons are balanced still make them a SAFER way to earn ISK and SP than any other strategy at present. Casual players WILL see that, in comparison with ANY other strategy available to them, sniping is practically risk-free, and in NPC contracts, you'll see lots of bad snipers, unless things change.
As mentioned, current plans should see change happening to the sniping mechanics, so we'll just have to wait and see how that turns out. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
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Posted - 2012.11.11 17:47:00 -
[5] - Quote
AMARRKIS wrote:What? Im still not getting you just about everyone here in the beta now will be in a corp. I thought that they said once everything is done or watever that contracts will be the only way to obtain isk. So im doubting that ppl that really dont play sniper will be playing anymore to save their suit sense it wont help them if they keep losing. Also in doing a contact Im pretty sure you wont be just playing randoms.
Most of US will be in corps, yes, but what about the day-one players?
And which part of "NPC contracts" implies that there isn't a contract involved?
NPC contracts are still contracts. And they're the system under which we're currently playing, for the most part. You might want to note the use of the word "contract" in the phrase "NPC contract" - just driving that point home, since you seem not to have seen it earlier. NPC CONTRACT. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
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Posted - 2012.11.11 19:17:00 -
[6] - Quote
AMARRKIS wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:AMARRKIS wrote:What? Im still not getting you just about everyone here in the beta now will be in a corp. I thought that they said once everything is done or watever that contracts will be the only way to obtain isk. So im doubting that ppl that really dont play sniper will be playing anymore to save their suit sense it wont help them if they keep losing. Also in doing a contact Im pretty sure you wont be just playing randoms. Most of US will be in corps, yes, but what about the day-one players? And which part of "NPC contracts" implies that there isn't a contract involved? NPC contracts are still contracts. And they're the system under which we're currently playing, for the most part. You might want to note the use of the word "contract" in the phrase "NPC contract" - just driving that point home, since you seem not to have seen it earlier. NPC CONTRACT. We wont be playing against against those players if your in a corp. You'll be playing against other corps in actual contracts thats is what im getting at
So basically, "doesn't matter, won't affect me" then?
Great attitude towards testing. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
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Posted - 2012.11.11 21:28:00 -
[7] - Quote
AMARRKIS wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:AMARRKIS wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:AMARRKIS wrote:What? Im still not getting you just about everyone here in the beta now will be in a corp. I thought that they said once everything is done or watever that contracts will be the only way to obtain isk. So im doubting that ppl that really dont play sniper will be playing anymore to save their suit sense it wont help them if they keep losing. Also in doing a contact Im pretty sure you wont be just playing randoms. Most of US will be in corps, yes, but what about the day-one players? And which part of "NPC contracts" implies that there isn't a contract involved? NPC contracts are still contracts. And they're the system under which we're currently playing, for the most part. You might want to note the use of the word "contract" in the phrase "NPC contract" - just driving that point home, since you seem not to have seen it earlier. NPC CONTRACT. We wont be playing against against those players if your in a corp. You'll be playing against other corps in actual contracts thats is what im getting at So basically, "doesn't matter, won't affect me" then? Great attitude towards testing. What now your just saying stuff. Im telling you what the devs told us nothing more nothing less. Also what great attitude what attitude am i having? 
I'm trying to point out something that currently DOES affect players, and if sniping mechanics don't change, will CONTINUE to affect players, with regards to how sniping works.
The ONLY argument you can level against me is that it doesn't matter because "everyone HERE will be in a corp anyway"
That sounds like the new players who pick the game up post-release don't matter at all to you. The people who are just going to play casually, and not join a corp don't matter to you. As far as you're concerned, anyone but people involved in player corporations is irrelevant, because you're not one of those players.
THAT attitude.
I'm not saying this because I expect to be personally affected by it post-release. I'm saying it because I can see how a NEW PLAYER WITHOUT A CORP will react if the mechanics and rewards for sniping aren't changed. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
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Posted - 2012.11.12 02:03:00 -
[8] - Quote
Tyrus 4 wrote:Snipers are a part of the game, just like Vehicles are.
kinda sucks when there are 63 of them on your team in a match, but what can you do.
You can change either the sniper mechanics or the game's reward system so that non-contributing redline snipers don't get as well rewarded, or have a harder time achieving anything without some measure of risk. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
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Posted - 2012.11.12 22:05:00 -
[9] - Quote
Konohamaru Sarutobi wrote:I don't think the problem is 100% snipers (good or bad). Maybe the problem is that they can snipe you from their redzone, and that's kinda dificult for teams who have not snipers in their team (it's kinda the same with tanks sniping from their redzone). Yes, you can climb the mountain and kill them but if they are not close enough from the "general zone" you will get suicide. I think the principal problem is the redzone. The rest it's just normal. If you're a regular player, you know where they are. You just need 1 sniper to take them down and they won't back to those places. Get a good suit and they will need 3 or 4 shoots to kill you. Move between mountais or buldings and you won't even feel snipers.
Sorry for the english. See you
Manus Peak.
Enemy snipers behind the redline, camped out on the hills.
We had ONE sniper taking them on. In a Heavy Suit.
I was camped out behind a nearby rock with my Repair Tool. When he took a bit of damage, he ran over to me, and I patched the holes. By the time he was full repaired, his shields were usually past half strength again as well, so he just stepped back out and faced down all the sniper fire.
Enemy changed tactics and brought a tank. Sniper kept sniping. I broke out a Swarm Launcher.
Surprisingly, with more than half the enemy team sitting in their spawn doing absolutely nothing, our team won. Funny how that works out sometimes. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
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Posted - 2012.11.12 22:55:00 -
[10] - Quote
Konohamaru Sarutobi wrote:LOL i know, i mean, if i want to play all the match, with a heavy suit, you must give me the chance to kill an assault, logistic or sniper suit. You must give them differents advantage to the suits, but you need to do anything with any suit, maybe faster and better with one than other, but anything with anyone
Bring friends.
Seriously, no. Not every soldier on the battlefield should have a fair fight against every other soldier on the battlefield. An army NEEDS varied members or it won't be viable. You need vehicles or AV guys to take down the enemy's vehicles. You need Logistics/Support people equipped with Nanohives. Snipers are great at long range, but vulnerable in close, and vulnerable to counter-sniping.
If you, personally, aren't prepared to change your role to fit the situation, bring along someone who WILL. Or bring friends who fill different roles from your own. Don't expect to run ANY job solo and handle EVERYTHING the game throws at you all the time. |
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Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
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Posted - 2012.11.12 23:05:00 -
[11] - Quote
Konohamaru Sarutobi wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Konohamaru Sarutobi wrote:LOL i know, i mean, if i want to play all the match, with a heavy suit, you must give me the chance to kill an assault, logistic or sniper suit. You must give them differents advantage to the suits, but you need to do anything with any suit, maybe faster and better with one than other, but anything with anyone Bring friends. Seriously, no. Not every soldier on the battlefield should have a fair fight against every other soldier on the battlefield. An army NEEDS varied members or it won't be viable. You need vehicles or AV guys to take down the enemy's vehicles. You need Logistics/Support people equipped with Nanohives. Snipers are great at long range, but vulnerable in close, and vulnerable to counter-sniping. If you, personally, aren't prepared to change your role to fit the situation, bring along someone who WILL. Or bring friends who fill different roles from your own. Don't expect to run ANY job solo and handle EVERYTHING the game throws at you all the time. Like i said, of course it's better if you have all in your team, and I never said fair fight against every other soldier. I just said, a possibility.
If an enemy sniper is as far back into the redzone as they can possibly get without suiciding themselves, a guy with Sidearm Sharpshooter to level 5 will still be able to hit with his SMG. Not consistently, and not for much damage, but they WILL be able to hit. If he's NOT that far behind the redline (they usually aren't), you don't have to push as hard to get your SMG to hit them. HMGs can hit effectively as well. Laser Rifles are pretty effective counter-sniper weapons, especially when the sniper is running a Scout suit. Assault Rifles can also fill the job in most cases. The Tactical AR is a particularly effective counter-sniper weapon.
Tanks are another viable tool for taking out snipers.
What exactly is the loadout you're struggling with? Unless you have a Shotgun, in which case, it goes without saying why the sniper is winning, there IS a chance. Sometimes not MUCH of a chance, but there's still a chance that you can land the kill. |
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