It's simple really. 1 good sniper is all the team needs. And if he's good, he's bearly shooting. He's in constant communication with the leaders and forever feeding them info. He only shoots in self defence or to take out a high priority target who's giving the ground team hell. In reality, snipers on ops shoot about once per engagement IF they're lucky. What you want to play as is NOT a sniper. You want to play as what the military calls a designated marksman. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Designated_marksman

People see DMs and instantly think he's a sniper. He's not. He extends the operational and operative range of the squad he is attached to. Snipers are attached to platoons in pairs. Therefore there 2 snipers for around every 40 men.

People also get annoyed because out of 14 players per team, 9 on each will be 'snipers' who are complete and utter dead weight to the team, who never cap or protect objectives, who never actually seem to lower their scope and do nothing but look at their own K\D. They also don't fit in to a shooter based around teamwork.

I personally thing the class needs a RADICAL redesign, or left as is but limited to 2 per team per game. Because right now, having snipers on your own team almost gurantees you've lost. Especially if there is more than 3.

From what I've seen, the majority of people's problems are with sniping being too easy, and with there being too many snipers.

It's not about the good snipers being good at being snipers. It's about the game making BAD snipers a viable method of earning money with minimal personal risk. You can be a bad sniper and still get a good K/D, and because you're not dying much (if at all), you're seeing almost all the post-battle income as pure profit.

Good snipers are fine. But the game makes things too easy for BAD snipers as well.

There will always be casual players.

There will always be a system for casual players to take NPC contracts.

There will always be a need for the game to be balanced with those problems in mind.

Re-read my first post. Re-quote it. Show me where I said anything about the problems with snipers being corp-related.

It's because snipers in general are totally worthless. Now, there are a few very good snipers. But certainly 2 on any team is enough. The reason I really hate snipers is because they feel they are the only players who should never change class. "But I'm a sniper" is not a valid reason to go cap objectives using a pistol. "I'm rubbish and will honestly get in your way" is a legitimate excuse. You see where I'm going. Basically, if there's 8 snipers on a team, they'll just keep sniping. They won't change class, call a tank or any of that jazz. They JUST snipe.

There are a very few good/awesome snipers in the game. These snipers are more important than grunt assault players like myself. I could be easily replaced in my team. I couldn't replace our snipers.

I don't think the real problem is a single sniper, or a handful of snipers. When I begin to get pissed at snipers it is when theres like a dozen that wont go out in the field because they to scared and just sit back under the mcc or something sniping entire match. I see this alot on the Manus peak map , I believe that's the map.. It happens so often that now when I see the trend begin , I say fk it and grab a militia sniper aswell.. no point in me suiciding

I use an assault rifle, a shotgun, a forge, a swarm, a sniper , pistol, and submachine gun

Whether a bad sniper is in a corp or not, and whether a casual player is in a corp or not, the current sniping mechanics along with how the weapons are balanced still make them a SAFER way to earn ISK and SP than any other strategy at present. Casual players WILL see that, in comparison with ANY other strategy available to them, sniping is practically risk-free, and in NPC contracts, you'll see lots of bad snipers, unless things change.

As mentioned, current plans should see change happening to the sniping mechanics, so we'll just have to wait and see how that turns out.

Errrrrrrrrr what. Thats exactly what a snipers job is not sitting a million miles in the rear , they are up front evadeing detection and causeing mayhem, at least thats what my old seargent used to tel us.

Most of US will be in corps, yes, but what about the day-one players?

And which part of "NPC contracts" implies that there isn't a contract involved?

NPC contracts are still contracts. And they're the system under which we're currently playing, for the most part. You might want to note the use of the word "contract" in the phrase "NPC contract" - just driving that point home, since you seem not to have seen it earlier. NPC CONTRACT.

So basically, "doesn't matter, won't affect me" then?

Great attitude towards testing.

Please go back and read my post about the difference between a Designated Marksman and a Sniper. Let me make this clear: You are NOT a sniper. There is NO sniper class in this game! It is INCORRECTLY named and you're actually playing as a Designated Marksman. You're job is to extend the operational (Read: Lethal) range of your squad. You are supposed to be on the front line, right next to your squad leader hitting priority targets and suppressing others so the actual killers of your unit (HMGs and AR) can get close enough to cause the real damage.

A sniper, that is, a true sniper... is more of a scout. He rarely fires his gun and spends 99% of his time on a radio. A marksman however is with the squad, giving them nearly double the lethal range and covering the rest of the squad with accurate fire. If you lone wolf, you're doing it COMPLETELY wrong.

I can overwatch on Manu Peaks by myself, you just have to know where to park. Try again. Basically Amarrkis, snipers in this game are a detriment to the team. Can you tell me with a straight face that 9 snipers on the hills on Manus Peak will do ANYTHING to take at least 2/3 of the objectives that is needed to win? Nope, they are just going to sit there and wonder why suddenly the other team has 3 points and they are being pushed back into their spawn.

I'm trying to point out something that currently DOES affect players, and if sniping mechanics don't change, will CONTINUE to affect players, with regards to how sniping works.

The ONLY argument you can level against me is that it doesn't matter because "everyone HERE will be in a corp anyway"

That sounds like the new players who pick the game up post-release don't matter at all to you. The people who are just going to play casually, and not join a corp don't matter to you. As far as you're concerned, anyone but people involved in player corporations is irrelevant, because you're not one of those players.

THAT attitude.

I'm not saying this because I expect to be personally affected by it post-release. I'm saying it because I can see how a NEW PLAYER WITHOUT A CORP will react if the mechanics and rewards for sniping aren't changed.

Don't limit your options, the sniper is just another gun that happens to have a low rof and high damage output.

never seen a larger group of people work harder to defend their bs game play "style".

if you guys have to go this far to defend your crappy "help"
then it's pretty obvious you guys are the only ones who just don't get it.

you spend nothing. you hide.
you can't arm, you can't heal, you can't repair.
if the team loses, who cares?
your precious kd is intact and you spent nothiing on gear

if the team wins, your kd is the same and your expenses are the same
but now you get to put a +1 in the win column because everyone else carried you to the win line.


friggin anchors.

you provide no recon.
you still expect a squad of 4 to work with 3 people on the field and you in the mountains
AND
you have the balls to request fragos.

any squad leader who spams points off an anchor sniper is possibly as bad as the sniper himself.
sorry... my bad.

herself.

when they push out the new sniper build... it should come with a box of choclates and a case of tampons

Peace
B

No it makes perfect sense a sniper can actually be very effective on the frontlines in many situations.

I think whats even more funny is how these "bad ass" snipers dont even have mics and cant call out enemy movement.lol

whats even more hilarious is ask one to get rid of an enemy sniper to "anti snipe"they wont .They're quite content hiding and not giving away there position to the enemy sniper.....pure garbage

You care about your K/D, so you are a sniper. So you admit that you are not helping your team. Today is Veterans day in America and I believe Canada as well. Do you know what it means to be part of a military team? It means not worrying whether you live or die, only that your buddies make it home.

"but what can you do"

well...

personally i look forward to having my alt since you nerds love alt accounts, i figure ill join in this time.

only thing is my alt will be the one who pops into pub rooms in null sec, looks at the map prior to spawning and heads out asap to the camp snipers on our team.
ill probably mess with you first, just hit you occasionally to throw off your aim. but then ill get bored and just flat out tk you.
it's my alt. what do i care? stats don't matter.

but towards the end of the game ill skip the funny stuff and just land and tk you, and you and you...

reallly any camp sniper on any team in null sec.
ill be the one who tks you. a lot.

gonna love watching you spend money. spend that money.
kit after kit. ill be using standard gear. no loss for me.

so yeah... we can do that.

Peace
B

So close minded

what part of what I said doesn't make any sense

lol First off I never mentioned the scout suit and all I said was a sniper rifle is essentially a weapon with a low RoF and high damage output and in alot of situations actually does a good job when used on the frontline, makes perfect sense to me. Maybe if you tried it more often instead of camping in a high place you will begin to understand.

I don't think the problem is 100% snipers (good or bad). Maybe the problem is that they can snipe you from their redzone, and that's kinda dificult for teams who have not snipers in their team (it's kinda the same with tanks sniping from their redzone). Yes, you can climb the mountain and kill them but if they are not close enough from the "general zone" you will get suicide. I think the principal problem is the redzone. The rest it's just normal. If you're a regular player, you know where they are. You just need 1 sniper to take them down and they won't back to those places. Get a good suit and they will need 3 or 4 shoots to kill you. Move between mountais or buldings and you won't even feel snipers.

Sorry for the english. See you

Well your no fun

like I said before, close minded

Bzzt. Wrong. Sniper Rifles are not meant for long range. Any gun can do long range (A standard rifle can hit targets at 500 meters, 300 accurately). The point of a sniper rifle is to hit targets between 3 and 600 meters ACCURATELY . That's the key difference. It's not made for range, it's made for precision. The range is a by-product of that.

Please for the love of all that is holy, stop with the over romanized idea of a sniper being a lone wolf killer hiding in the long grass. It does not exist and the fact it's perpetuated HURTS team based FPS games!

Wow, one can use any weapon how they want. If people can snipe on the front line then, go for it. If you want to skill up your scrambler pistol to do long range, go for it. You wanna bring a knife to a gun fight, go for it. Why put limitations on things?

LOL i know, i mean, if i want to play all the match, with a heavy suit, you must give me the chance to kill an assault, logistic or sniper suit. You must give them differents advantage to the suits, but you need to do anything with any suit, maybe faster and better with one than other, but anything with anyone

Well actually, I wasn't expecting you to reply to that

And I'm just saying your not using the sniper to its full potential

And this is a video game, you never take the description of a weapon seriously in a video game.

Going a little off point here... You've never fired a gun, have you? It has a scope so it's precise. Telescopic sights exist for Designated Marksmen to do their job easier (Extend accurate, lethal engagement range of their squad, remember when I said that part?)... gun's are not easy to aim, nothing like a video game, son.

If we're talking about the game, well then it's still a redundant, useless tool that can have it's rolled filled more efficiently by someone in Assault Gear using the Tac Rifle with Sharpshooter 5. A sniper does 1 thing in this game... And it does it poorly. A good sniper is better, but he's still gimping himself by a weapon with limited and difficult application.

Anyone else get the feeling they're talking to a wall? Dude, seriously, defend the play style all you want, it don't change the fact it's from a long gone and long dead genre of FPS gaming. It has no place in modern shooters, it contributes nothing.

I get what your saying but then again, forgive me for being blunt but its just who i am, what you said is stupid the classes are much like rock, paper, scissors each being able to beat another but none being able to beat all. This is why ppl create corps so that they can have an assortment of players to take onto battle( not to say that you didnt know that.) But i do think that each class should have at least 5 special things that only that suit can accomplish.