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Swarms aren't the problem

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Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 1058	Posted - 2012.10.20 01:53:00 - [1] - Quote The problem is that dropships can just fly over a hill into the redzone whenever they get hit to regen their shields. last match, there was a dropship; we didn't have the problem of not being able to hit it with swarms- we shot the **** out of it. But whenever we hit it, it would just fly over a hill into the red zone for a little while, then fly back with full shields. My suggestion would be to speed up the red zone timer- 5 seconds at most. Also shrink the red zone in some areas- a few of them, there's a hill that only dropships can get over with a good deal of it outside of the red zone.
Governor Odius Doomheim 177	Posted - 2012.10.20 01:58:00 - [2] - Quote See, now you're talking about making dropships unable to survive anything ever. This is what we did with HAVs. When was the last time you saw a HAV make any meaningful contribution to a fight? The focus needs to be on putting dropships back in their role, not on nerfing them into oblivion.
Ridgeway Semper Fi ROGUE SPADES 30	Posted - 2012.10.20 02:01:00 - [3] - Quote Nah ** that nerf the out of dropships, you nerfed the ** out of tanks.. Nerf it all
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 1058	Posted - 2012.10.20 02:22:00 - [4] - Quote Governor Odius wrote: See, now you're talking about making dropships unable to survive anything ever. This is what we did with HAVs. When was the last time you saw a HAV make any meaningful contribution to a fight? The focus needs to be on putting dropships back in their role, not on nerfing them into oblivion. dropships are meant to be transports; they should be fast, but with a damage penalty- just like how logistics LAVs have a damage penalty.
Moochie Cricket SyNergy Gaming 143	Posted - 2012.10.20 02:28:00 - [5] - Quote Mad bro?
Ghost-33 ShootBreakStab 108	Posted - 2012.10.20 02:30:00 - [6] - Quote Remove dropship weapons or only have them fit the first tier weapons, there, now they are transport with some defense like current day transport choppers. Save the gunship duties for the upcoming air vehicles. Edit: if dropships don't pose such a threat to ground forces then they will survive longer, as it is now they reign supreme so when they go up, everyone with AV whips it out.
Skihids Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 969	Posted - 2012.10.20 02:46:00 - [7] - Quote Ghost-33 wrote: Remove dropship weapons or only have them fit the first tier weapons, there, now they are transport with some defense like current day transport choppers. Save the gunship duties for the upcoming air vehicles. Edit: if dropships don't pose such a threat to ground forces then they will survive longer, as it is now they reign supreme so when they go up, everyone with AV whips it out. I've got a feelng that everyone would still whip out AV for quick points. People do it for LAV's just to get the ISK for trashing a vehicle.
Skihids Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 969	Posted - 2012.10.20 02:49:00 - [8] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Governor Odius wrote: See, now you're talking about making dropships unable to survive anything ever. This is what we did with HAVs. When was the last time you saw a HAV make any meaningful contribution to a fight? The focus needs to be on putting dropships back in their role, not on nerfing them into oblivion. dropships are meant to be transports; they should be fast, but with a damage penalty- just like how logistics LAVs have a damage penalty. Logistics dropships are weaker already. It's really up to CCP to determine how much of an offensive role they want dropships to have. They promissed us a whole host of changes that did not materialize this build, so we are likely to see significant alterations next build.
Average Joe81 Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 21	Posted - 2012.10.20 02:51:00 - [9] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Governor Odius wrote: See, now you're talking about making dropships unable to survive anything ever. This is what we did with HAVs. When was the last time you saw a HAV make any meaningful contribution to a fight? The focus needs to be on putting dropships back in their role, not on nerfing them into oblivion. dropships are meant to be transports; they should be fast, but with a damage penalty- just like how logistics LAVs have a damage penalty. my god i never thought someone could propose such a bad idea.
Icy Tiger Universal Allies Inc. 1026	Posted - 2012.10.20 02:54:00 - [10] - Quote Swarms are the problem. Enough said.

Governor Odius Doomheim 177	Posted - 2012.10.20 03:06:00 - [11] - Quote Average Joe81 wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Governor Odius wrote: See, now you're talking about making dropships unable to survive anything ever. This is what we did with HAVs. When was the last time you saw a HAV make any meaningful contribution to a fight? The focus needs to be on putting dropships back in their role, not on nerfing them into oblivion. dropships are meant to be transports; they should be fast, but with a damage penalty- just like how logistics LAVs have a damage penalty. my god i never thought someone could propose such a bad idea. Are you talking about the damage penalty? Because that's actually a good idea.
Shijima Kuraimaru WarRavens 164	Posted - 2012.10.20 05:07:00 - [12] - Quote Icy Tiger wrote: Swarms are the problem. Enough said. Nah. Drop ships scrub my swarm packs all the time by either outpacing them or leading them into terrain. I haven't seen swarms be much of a problem for drop ships in any matches I've played. Now my assault forge gun on the other hand...
Reout Karaal Doomheim 85	Posted - 2012.10.20 06:29:00 - [13] - Quote Ghost-33 wrote: Remove dropship weapons or only have them fit the first tier weapons, there, now they are transport with some defense like current day transport choppers. Save the gunship duties for the upcoming air vehicles. Edit: if dropships don't pose such a threat to ground forces then they will survive longer, as it is now they reign supreme so when they go up, everyone with AV whips it out. What would be the incentive to fly? Right now the pilot gets no frags, just some percentage of WP as assists to kills that his/hers gunners make. If you think I will invest few millions SP and 500k-1M ISK in a ship that will give me no benefit whatsoever then think again. Tanks were nerfed now so they can only hide behind their infantry or between tight buildings and count on their enemies inability to spam AV nades everywhere. They can still get kills though, OHK everything two-legged. DS pilots could never get frags and would be effectively eliminated from the game if your change was to be implemented. To summarise: Your idea is bad and you should feel bad.
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 810	Posted - 2012.10.20 07:42:00 - [14] - Quote Swarm pathing is definitely the problem. The dropship can be heading almost directly for you and you can aim straight at it and the dumb rockets still fly past and then spin around and chase the thing. The rockets need to fly out a good 300 ft or so before locking on like they used to back on plateau, and then lock on to THE FRONT of the dropship rather than the back.
Nuriel Stormchaser Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2012.10.20 08:12:00 - [15] - Quote Baal Roo wrote: Swarm pathing is definitely the problem. The dropship can be heading almost directly for you and you can aim straight at it and the dumb rockets still fly past and then spin around and chase the thing. The rockets need to fly out a good 300 ft or so before locking on like they used to back on plateau, and then lock on to THE FRONT of the dropship rather than the back. Pretty much on the nail for the way I feel too.
Chankk Saotome CrimeWave Syndicate 170	Posted - 2012.10.20 09:08:00 - [16] - Quote Even as someone who wants to pilot ships I'll agree with pathing being an issue but you should also concur that 2 swarms should not be able to kill a dropship or flip it on it's head, nor should they be able to track and turn full 180 mid-air. Ground troops are always complaining but again they have no idea what a pain flying is nor what a massive investment it is with little to no benefit to the pilot himself. I've seen so many skirmish matches won because a team will just try to take down a DS flying in huge lazy circles at top speed while his teammate hacks all objectives. A cute tactic but massive risk to the pilot with again NO benefit whatsoever. If swarms aren't doing the job, then change your build to a forge AV. If you're not willin to do that then quit whining and do the job you can.
Martin0 Brancaleone Maphia Clan Corporation CRONOS. 191	Posted - 2012.10.20 11:16:00 - [17] - Quote First hmg were nerfed, (and they disappeared from the game), then heavies were nerfed (and can now be killed from assault suits without problems), tanks have been nerfed, now you want to nerf dropships too. Your ******* nerfs are breaking this game and making it another stupid and meaningless FPS.
Chankk Saotome CrimeWave Syndicate 170	Posted - 2012.10.20 11:52:00 - [18] - Quote Normally wouldn't like another comment like this but you're so right Martin. Honestly, everyone complaining about this being OP, or that being OP, are all running militia gear trying to play Deathmatch and have no interest in the future of the game itself beyond making another bunny-hopping generic free for all FPS. Quit asking for nerfs on this or that, ask for boosts to weapon types that balance the game rather than grinding everything else into the dirt. Or better yet, learn better tactics than running and jumping like a jackkitten out in the open and get better at the game. Actually, no, don't, don't get better, because I love running my logi up and elbowing you in the teeth while you're busy staring into the sky at the DS half a mile away.
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 1058	Posted - 2012.10.20 16:08:00 - [19] - Quote Shijima Kuraimaru wrote: Icy Tiger wrote: Swarms are the problem. Enough said. Nah. Drop ships scrub my swarm packs all the time by either outpacing them or leading them into terrain. I haven't seen swarms be much of a problem for drop ships in any matches I've played. Now my assault forge gun on the other hand... I have no problem hitting dropships with swarms. Just get them when they're flying TOWARDS you. Sure, they can avoid swarms by flying in circles, but eventually they have to come back around; and I know from my piloting experience last build that their momentum will send them into your swarm. Reout Karaal wrote: Ghost-33 wrote: Remove dropship weapons or only have them fit the first tier weapons, there, now they are transport with some defense like current day transport choppers. Save the gunship duties for the upcoming air vehicles. Edit: if dropships don't pose such a threat to ground forces then they will survive longer, as it is now they reign supreme so when they go up, everyone with AV whips it out. What would be the incentive to fly? Right now the pilot gets no frags, just some percentage of WP as assists to kills that his/hers gunners make. If you think I will invest few millions SP and 500k-1M ISK in a ship that will give me no benefit whatsoever then think again. Tanks were nerfed now so they can only hide behind their infantry or between tight buildings and count on their enemies inability to spam AV nades everywhere. They can still get kills though, OHK everything two-legged. DS pilots could never get frags and would be effectively eliminated from the game if your change was to be implemented. To summarise: Your idea is bad and you should feel bad. it's a DROPSHIP not a gunship. Chankk Saotome wrote: Even as someone who wants to pilot ships I'll agree with pathing being an issue but you should also concur that 2 swarms should not be able to kill a dropship or flip it on it's head, nor should they be able to track and turn full 180 mid-air. I completely agree with this- but after we hit it at least 3 times in a row, it still had shields left to run away and regenerate.
Governor Odius Doomheim 177	Posted - 2012.10.20 16:11:00 - [20] - Quote You should try flying in this build. The pathing on swarms is different.

Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 1058	Posted - 2012.10.20 16:13:00 - [21] - Quote Governor Odius wrote: You should try flying in this build. The pathing on swarms is different. I was a pilot last build- when the maps didn't cater to dropships.
The Polish Hammer Doomheim 373	Posted - 2012.10.20 16:26:00 - [22] - Quote Chankk Saotome wrote: Normally wouldn't like another comment like this but you're so right Martin. Honestly, everyone complaining about this being OP, or that being OP, are all running militia gear trying to play Deathmatch and have no interest in the future of the game itself beyond making another bunny-hopping generic free for all FPS. Quit asking for nerfs on this or that, ask for boosts to weapon types that balance the game rather than grinding everything else into the dirt. Or better yet, learn better tactics than running and jumping like a jackkitten out in the open and get better at the game. Actually, no, don't, don't get better, because I love running my logi up and elbowing you in the teeth while you're busy staring into the sky at the DS half a mile away. Ahahahaha this was great. +1 for you good sir. Also, I agree completely. Build the game up, not break everything in it down to nothing.
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 1058	Posted - 2012.10.20 16:33:00 - [23] - Quote Chankk Saotome wrote: Quit asking for nerfs on this or that, ask for boosts to weapon types that balance the game rather than grinding everything else into the dirt. Or better yet, learn better tactics than running and jumping like a jackkitten out in the open and get better at the game. Improving swarms won't work- otherwise firing at an LAV might as well be insta-kill
Tinodi Doomheim 39	Posted - 2012.10.20 17:13:00 - [24] - Quote Reout Karaal wrote: Ghost-33 wrote: Remove dropship weapons or only have them fit the first tier weapons, there, now they are transport with some defense like current day transport choppers. Save the gunship duties for the upcoming air vehicles. Edit: if dropships don't pose such a threat to ground forces then they will survive longer, as it is now they reign supreme so when they go up, everyone with AV whips it out. What would be the incentive to fly? Right now the pilot gets no frags, just some percentage of WP as assists to kills that his/hers gunners make. If you think I will invest few millions SP and 500k-1M ISK in a ship that will give me no benefit whatsoever then think again. I think this brings up a slightly different, but important point. While LAV's and Dropships are supposed to provide some support, their main benefit is supposed to be mobility of the team. I'd like to see some way to add incentives to pilots for fulfilling this role, and I'm not sure what the best way is to accomplish it. I'd think maybe add WP for carrying people x number of meters, but then I'd worry about farming. Maybe troops dropped off from your transport give you hack or kill assists for a certain time afterwards? The idea is your greatest team contribution is moving the team in fast. Even in PUG's, LAV's excel at getting a fast chokehold on objectives, or jetting out to an outskirts objective. Even without communication people seem to get the idea and hop in as you race to the next objective.. Your return should reflect that contribution, but again, I'm not sure the best way to accomplish this is. I'd love to fill a more support role like that.
Knightshade Belladonna Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 288	Posted - 2012.10.20 17:45:00 - [25] - Quote Quick fix for DS, only have them using blasters no missiles. Give them WP rewards on a timer for being in flight moving , regardless of if they dropped someone off or are just spinning in circles. But to get those WP from said timer, you must also have a mobile CRU equipped on the ship. Bam, now you have a viable transport ship with light defense(guns) and a SP reward system
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 1058	Posted - 2012.10.20 18:38:00 - [26] - Quote Tinodi wrote: [quote=Reout Karaal]Maybe troops dropped off from your transport give you hack or kill assists for a certain time afterwards? I believe a dev said last build that they're working on that.
Ghost-33 ShootBreakStab 108	Posted - 2012.10.20 18:51:00 - [27] - Quote Reout Karaal wrote: Ghost-33 wrote: Remove dropship weapons or only have them fit the first tier weapons, there, now they are transport with some defense like current day transport choppers. Save the gunship duties for the upcoming air vehicles. Edit: if dropships don't pose such a threat to ground forces then they will survive longer, as it is now they reign supreme so when they go up, everyone with AV whips it out. What would be the incentive to fly? Right now the pilot gets no frags, just some percentage of WP as assists to kills that his/hers gunners make. If you think I will invest few millions SP and 500k-1M ISK in a ship that will give me no benefit whatsoever then think again. Tanks were nerfed now so they can only hide behind their infantry or between tight buildings and count on their enemies inability to spam AV nades everywhere. They can still get kills though, OHK everything two-legged. DS pilots could never get frags and would be effectively eliminated from the game if your change was to be implemented. To summarise: Your idea is bad and you should feel bad. Whether you have a godlike DS or a paper DS you still don't get anything by flying. If you want frags, WP's or kills then shoot something, not fly. I played ARMA and ARMA 2 for about 3 years and I was mainly a BlackHawk pilot. You get absolutely no points of flying in that game, but you are the most important player 9 times outta 10 because you get your team where they need to be to win the battle. I know you will say "Then how will they ever get SP to upgrade their equipment?" Well I would hope that pilots won't spend every online hour in a vehicle and they really should get outside and smell the fresh flowers and feel the wind in their... helmet, and shoot some people in the face every now and again. That should be the reason people fly DropShips, and it will be easier for the real pilots to do what they are supposed to do (transport not gunship) because corporations can fund them the ISK for the DS's because those same corporations need a reliable transport to cap objectives. The more people that use Dropships in their intended role the less they will seem overpowered, the wont be this untouchable vulture in the sky one shotting your 80k ISK suit. To summarize: Transport pilots don't get kills, they get their teams' killers where they need to be to cap objectives.
Governor Odius Doomheim 177	Posted - 2012.10.20 18:56:00 - [28] - Quote The problem is that the way things are balanced right now a dropship can make a much bigger contribution to a fight as a gunship than as a transport. I'd love to be able to use my dropship as a gang support craft, that's the role I almost always go for in team games, but right now it's just not viable. If there's ever a time when a dropship isn't flying around at max speed the half-dozen guys on the other team with free militia swarms will blow it out of the sky and I wouldn't be able to afford to replace it because I don't get any points for transports, repairs, spawns, or any other gang support actions I might engage in.
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 1058	Posted - 2012.10.20 19:34:00 - [29] - Quote I can NOT wait for fighters to come out. Not only will they be a hellofa good time to fly, but dropships will be where they need to be without a nerf. Btw: the whole point of this thread seems to be ignored. My main suggestion was to fix a redlining exploit, not to directly nerf dropships.
Reout Karaal Doomheim 85	Posted - 2012.10.20 20:02:00 - [30] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: it's a DROPSHIP not a gunship. How do I spec into Gunships? Where do I find them in the market? Oh, there are no gunships? Only dropships with guns that are no gunships. I see. When gunships are here let me know, will stop using Dropships wrong. Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Btw: the whole point of this thread seems to be ignored. My main suggestion was to fix a redlining exploit, not to directly nerf dropships. It's not an exploit if it was designed that way. Some normal red zones are too small to even make a turn, that's why dropships have wider area. It's tiring to read how clueless people want to "fix" the game all the time. You make CCP nerf everything. Honestly -- I had some good tank kills last build and I had some DS kills this build, both from the ground and airborne (as pilot). This game will be stupified to the ground in 1 or 2 builds. Thanks a lot.



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