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Brahma El Indio Bragian Order Amarr Empire 171	Posted - 2012.10.18 12:34:00 - [61] - Quote GM Hercules wrote: Snipers is one of the multiple options in the game; DUST allow you to take a role in the battlefield and you can choose the role that you think going to give success and victory. Sure. But in a game of 4 vs 4 when one team floats objectives, caps them all, but we all go negative, and still win, because the whole other team chooses to camp in the mountains with tactical sniper rifles, it kind of belittled objective based teamwork and isn't much fun....just saying, you know..... Sure, we won, but was the game fun? No.
DUST Fiend Immobile Infantry 1902	Posted - 2012.10.18 13:06:00 - [62] - Quote I'm countering snipers by becoming a HAV pilot
Rasatsu Much Crying Old Experts 437	Posted - 2012.10.18 13:41:00 - [63] - Quote Brahma El Indio wrote: GM Hercules wrote: Snipers is one of the multiple options in the game; DUST allow you to take a role in the battlefield and you can choose the role that you think going to give success and victory. Sure. But in a game of 4 vs 4 when one team floats objectives, caps them all, but we all go negative, and still win, because the whole other team chooses to camp in the mountains with tactical sniper rifles, it kind of belittled objective based teamwork and isn't much fun....just saying, you know..... Sure, we won, but was the game fun? No. So they won the game that is today, rather than the game that will be tomorrow?
Tenchu-13 What The French 76	Posted - 2012.10.18 14:40:00 - [64] - Quote Just my opinion as a (counter-) sniper. (TL:DR version at the end) Yes sniping has become easier this build and there are way more (way to many...) snipers this build then last build. I'm playing more as a (counter)sniper/droplinkdropper/supplier then a mere sniper, so I'm NOT the standard camper and therefore can't really identify myself in those you're all attacking but the idea is the same. I'm killing you from far, far away. Yes CCP should remove the camping behind the red line it sucks ballz, CCP should add some, read SOME sway even when crouched and yes CCP should do something about body/head damage ratio. On the other hand CCP should also do something about the Bunnyhopping or Biebering as I start to refer to it since it is freaking unnatural and to be honest even if you jump all the time a decent sniper just calculates where your a$$ will land or as I like to do it simply shoots you in midair (I love doing that). But on a sidenote...has any of you even played as a sniper at all , and I mean the NON-camping fully specced 1shot your dead version. it isn't ALL camping and getting K/D ratios (at least not for me since I seriously couldn't care less about KDR, I just want to win the match tbh all whilst fulfilling multiple tasks). A decent/good sniper does exactly the opposite of what you're all complaining about, otherwise he should be quit easy to kill and you can only blame yourself. You just have to make sure to kill him or make sure someone takes up that task. If you hate snipers then the answer is easy; hunt them the frack down or make sure your team has someone doing this for you. I have met a few players already that are quite competent at it, and if they are in a game with me I know I am in serious trouble If i'm not 100% alert 100% of the time. Ingame I have to make sure to always stay on the move otherwise "intelligent" players will have my head in a few secs. I had to make a build so i can be 100% self-sufficient since dying means loosing momentum, as in having to start all over getting there where I was or wanted to go. This means I have 1 weapon (1 build has 2, but it has another purpose), almost NO armor/shield and I have to spec. shitloads of different skills to even remotely get on a level where I want to be. (the NON-camping-usefull-supplyiing-healing-reviving sniper that actually aids my team instead of worying about KDR). I have only once or twice NOT died in a game... and up until this day I still wonder how I managed that, must have been against some players lacking total tactic insight or something. And all that talk about the 15/0 kdr is kinda bullshit since that is exactly what happens when you pilot a dropship or a decently armored tank. My KDR average is not even 1/1 and I seriously couldn't care less, even if it dropped to 0,01/1 as long as i fulfilled my duties and played my own style. You want to make a sniper go in rage-mode... kill him with a blade, trust me pisses them of more then anything else. (I don't know who it was but one of you made me rage quite a bit yesterday whilst snipping a dropship) Can't reach them, get your a$$ in the hills and track them down. Anti-sniper, a decent radar and dropships are also quite effective. Or you could just do what I have to do against dropships, counter-snipers, sniperhunters/airsupport etc ... that is to anticipate the fact they are an integrated part of the game that isn't going away by TAKING FREAKING COVER. If I see someone running in the open with no cover for over 50 mtrs then trust me I will have his head. Make the detour and stay in cover. If I want to go from A to B I more often then not have to go from A to CDEFG to finally arrive at B after having traveled across half the freaking map. All you peeps have to do is move those 5 meters to the left/right and stay in cover and get some countersniper in your team, can't be that difficult... just my 0.2 cts. I ain't trying to start some kind of 'war' here by telling some of you lack some sort of insight, but that is kinda exactly what i'm saying... Peace. PS: Next time I see anyone running towards an objective I shall NOT clean the surroundings , nor shall I take down 1 or 2 red dots when I see a teammate masterly getting flanked. And the defense of our objectives, nah forget it, it would simply make my teammembers rage; me being an OP'd sniper and all... then we'll see if we're really as useless/raging/Op'ed as some of you really think... Peace, out. TL:DR version : ANTICIPATE THE FACT SNIPERS EXIST AND TAKE FREAKING COVER // GET A COUNTERSNIPER/SNIPERHUNTER IN YOUR TEAM and you should be OK (or not... but then it's on you)
Tenchu-13 What The French 76	Posted - 2012.10.18 14:45:00 - [65] - Quote Ok, that kinda ended more in a 2page rant then a short opinion.... just read the TLDR version if you prefer... Peace.
Finn Kempers BetaMax. 222	Posted - 2012.10.18 15:19:00 - [66] - Quote Sniping is not easy you twats. It only seems easier because the games hit detection is working. As of current I have played only sniper, and I have the most expensive in the game. It cannot OHK most people unless shot in the head and the ingame latency (as well as glitch where shots dont damage) make it difficult. I only have 3 rounds in my gun and initial sway is randomized and annoying. Even then if you spec up light sharpshooter you'll find your AR will reach me easily. Go snipe for yourself and find out how much concentration it requires. Peace
pbr me 843 Boot Camp 5	Posted - 2012.10.18 15:22:00 - [67] - Quote Last night snipers went squishy, squishy under my dropship. Love sneaking up behind them and setting a 3 ton ship on their heads. Camp all you want, free kills for my bug squishier.
Nicol Bolas Planeswalker Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 102	Posted - 2012.10.18 15:38:00 - [68] - Quote Sniping in Dust514 is currently OP ...ONLY.... in terms of the skill curve. A Sniper should be a dedicatted class, and it should not be easy for a novice to come and pick up so that we are spammed with mountains of amateur campers. If its made difficult for the.beginning, but after skilling up returns to where we ate now I think most people would be more comfortable with the number of snipers were seeing and their overall skill. Let's be fair about a few things, BAd Furry made this point, that snipers are powerful units for holding a point. A two man team can effectively defend a letter from several enemies at once. It takes time and man power to retake an area a sniper is holding. This is a valid (and efficient) tactic. It will also be broken if we keep putting ki glovecs on snipers everytime the community needs something else to batch about, or they were not smart enough to counter effectively... Now, if we just steapen the learning curve for efficient sniping everything should fine. Scope sway, distance and accuracy should all need to be skilled. An efficient sniper should not be built in a day. Noobs should not be encouraged to enter into this class.
BASSMEANT ZionTCD Legacy Rising 109	Posted - 2012.10.18 16:31:00 - [69] - Quote hysterical. every year it comes up. multiple times. every board. every game and the morons STILL don't get it same old excuses... year after year after year and they cling to em like grim death: countersniper, wah wah. if you can't heal someone or arm an objective, you're not helping. you're recon doesn't help you're "killing" the occasional person every 5 minutes doesn't help. nothing you do is useful. if you aren't in there with the squad on the ground... you're an anchor. and an ah. nothing you do helps, you hear the same complaints in every game, you use the same excuses and continue to do the same dumb crap year after year. hysterical. Peace B
Nicol Bolas Planeswalker Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 102	Posted - 2012.10.18 18:01:00 - [70] - Quote BASSMEANT wrote: hysterical. every year it comes up. multiple times. every board. every game and the morons STILL don't get it same old excuses... year after year after year and they cling to em like grim death: countersniper, wah wah. if you can't heal someone or arm an objective, you're not helping. you're recon doesn't help you're "killing" the occasional person every 5 minutes doesn't help. nothing you do is useful. if you aren't in there with the squad on the ground... you're an anchor. and an ah. nothing you do helps, you hear the same complaints in every game, you use the same excuses and continue to do the same dumb crap year after year. hysterical. Peace B Clearly you didn't read a single post in this thread. For the majority of snipers this may be true, but you should know by now there are extremely effective snipers out there capable of easily defending a letter. Explain me to exactly how a sniper eating up the other teams resources is not servicing his or her team. Tell me how exactly I'm not helping when I headshot you as you try to hack an objective, or move towards an objective, or kill your lav gunner/passenger, shoot your drop ship gunner.... It's ok you don't like snipers. Don't act like they're not useful.

Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 810	Posted - 2012.10.18 19:07:00 - [71] - Quote Nicol Bolas Planeswalker wrote: BASSMEANT wrote: hysterical. every year it comes up. multiple times. every board. every game and the morons STILL don't get it same old excuses... year after year after year and they cling to em like grim death: countersniper, wah wah. if you can't heal someone or arm an objective, you're not helping. you're recon doesn't help you're "killing" the occasional person every 5 minutes doesn't help. nothing you do is useful. if you aren't in there with the squad on the ground... you're an anchor. and an ah. nothing you do helps, you hear the same complaints in every game, you use the same excuses and continue to do the same dumb crap year after year. hysterical. Peace B Clearly you didn't read a single post in this thread. For the majority of snipers this may be true, but you should know by now there are extremely effective snipers out there capable of easily defending a letter. Explain me to exactly how a sniper eating up the other teams resources is not servicing his or her team. Tell me how exactly I'm not helping when I headshot you as you try to hack an objective, or move towards an objective, or kill your lav gunner/passenger, shoot your drop ship gunner.... It's ok you don't like snipers. Don't act like they're not useful. When it comes right down to it, you could be on the ground getting those same kills and actually helping in other ways too. It's not that a sniper is worthless, it will just ALWAYS be of less worth than a non-sniper. A sniper is effectively limiting their usefulness to just getting kills, rather than getting kills PLUS hacking, reviving, re supplying, etc. An "extremely effective" ANYTHING is capable of defending a letter or "eating up the other teams resources", but snipers are one of the few choices that restrict themselves to being useful in really only a single way. (note: this does not include front line snipers)
Shijima Kuraimaru WarRavens 164	Posted - 2012.10.19 01:36:00 - [72] - Quote Tenchu-13 wrote: Yes CCP should remove the camping behind the red line it sucks ballz, I have no problems with snipers the way they are now. I don't play a sniper and I don't want to be a sniper. The only problem I have with snipers is this one thing. This one thing on occasion, forces me to pick up a weapon and combat style I suck at (counter-sniper) to alleviate the pressure on my anti-armor a$$. Sure I've gotten a few CS kills doing this, but it's just not a play style I like. To the snipers that don't play behind the red line... Keep up the good work.
Sleepy Zan Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 2047	Posted - 2012.10.19 02:27:00 - [73] - Quote Finn Kempers wrote: Sniping is not easy you twats. It only seems easier because the games hit detection is working. As of current I have played only sniper, and I have the most expensive in the game. It cannot OHK most people unless shot in the head and the ingame latency (as well as glitch where shots dont damage) make it difficult. I only have 3 rounds in my gun and initial sway is randomized and annoying. Even then if you spec up light sharpshooter you'll find your AR will reach me easily. Go snipe for yourself and find out how much concentration it requires. Peace I do believe the damage snipers do right now is good and that factor is not OP, but they dumbed down the skill required to snipe considerably. Now there is no getting around the fact that it is point click and repeat.
William HBonney Imperfects Negative-Feedback 318	Posted - 2012.10.19 02:34:00 - [74] - Quote Bad FUrry said it right...that felt bad typing, but that is how it is....the fact that you don't have to lead and there is little to no sway makes sniping skill less...I am baffled by the people who say "It isn't as easy as you think." Yeah, it is easier, it takes 2 shots to kill someone and the rifle doesn't sway after a shot. Snipers can defend objectives like nobodys business. They don't even have to be close and they will kill anyone hacking a terminal...I think we just need smoke nades and that would fix it.
Origami Zan 1	Posted - 2012.10.19 02:36:00 - [75] - Quote William HBonney wrote: Bad FUrry said it right...that felt bad typing, but that is how it is....the fact that you don't have to lead and there is little to no sway makes sniping skill less...I am baffled by the people who say "It isn't as easy as you think." Yeah, it is easier, it takes 2 shots to kill someone and the rifle doesn't sway after a shot. Snipers can defend objectives like nobodys business. They don't even have to be close and they will kill anyone hacking a terminal...I think we just need smoke nades and that would fix it. ^tell em
Shijima Kuraimaru WarRavens 164	Posted - 2012.10.19 02:57:00 - [76] - Quote William HBonney wrote: Bad FUrry said it right...that felt bad typing, but that is how it is....the fact that you don't have to lead and there is little to no sway makes sniping skill less...I am baffled by the people who say "It isn't as easy as you think." Yeah, it is easier, it takes 2 shots to kill someone and the rifle doesn't sway after a shot. Snipers can defend objectives like nobodys business. They don't even have to be close and they will kill anyone hacking a terminal...I think we just need smoke nades and that would fix it. Smoke would be an excellent countermeasure.
Thig Chastot Algintal Core Gallente Federation 4	Posted - 2012.10.19 13:04:00 - [77] - Quote Lasarte Ioni wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Dirty Zan wrote: I don't think that the fact that there is no sway is the problem. I think the problem mainly is that the sniper snaps back to the same position with no sway after every shot. Also bullet drop and travel time needs to be added as well. I still think 0 sway is an issue, but you raise good points. I've heard the experimental milita sniper has bullet drop and delay, so maybe they are working to make all snipers behave like that, it's just hope, but maybe that will add some balance to the point and click sniper ( the 'mountain bandit' sniper is ultra easy to counter-snipe anyway but...) The Sniper Rifles in Dust514 are "Miniature Railguns" (That's straight from the description)... Do Railguns have bullet drop? And how long should it take for a bullet to reach a target 250 meters out? Without increasing your range that's about as far as you can shoot with a Sniper.
BASSMEANT ZionTCD Legacy Rising 109	Posted - 2012.10.19 13:48:00 - [78] - Quote ohhhh god see there it is: so what if you headshot someone hacking a term: his teammate rezzes him and he finishes the hack before you reload your next round. naw man YOU miss the point if YOU aren't on the ground taking the objective YOU suck. CQC snipers? i've seen 1. 1. total. the rest of you nerds hide. head shot me? i jackhammer snipers like you ALL the time. you come running back at me and i do it again. oh and we have the objective the 3rd and 4th times you come back. but then you get mad, respawn elsewhere and i see you, once again, hiding on amountain top trying to snipe ANOTHER objective. naw man you're obtuse, dense. thick. oh and you chose a PERFECT phrase to describe it: "servicing your teammates" you sure are!!! LOL Peace B ps i knew some implant sniper wanna be would vage about it. thanks for being the standout!
Bishop Sunrunner Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 8	Posted - 2012.10.19 14:19:00 - [79] - Quote Beat the kitten out of him
Henrietta Mann ZionTCD Legacy Rising 6	Posted - 2012.10.20 06:19:00 - [80] - Quote Rail guns do have drop every mass is effected by gravity. The question is what amount of drop is there for a beehive round travelling at 8000m/sec? Over the distances we are talking about, it's kinetic loss and drop are going to be so minimal so as to be capable of ignoring. You cannot compare the rail gun sniper to a chemical propelled bullet. At that speed you won't need lead too much either. So while round physics is currently correct, the issue of the amount of sway might not. Rail guns are going to really heavy, due to what is needed to keep rails in place and generate the magnetic field. So sway and kick back ( newtons laws mean that rail round will impose hellish knock back on the sniper) should be increased for rail tech. Hopefully they will bring in minmatar sniper rifes, they will be chemical propelled, that should work with drop and lead. And maybe a laser variant? Gun properties may also effect how nimble the wielder is.

Sleepy Zan Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 2047	Posted - 2012.10.20 06:35:00 - [81] - Quote BASSMEANT wrote: ohhhh god see there it is: so what if you headshot someone hacking a term: his teammate rezzes him and he finishes the hack before you reload your next round. naw man YOU miss the point if YOU aren't on the ground taking the objective YOU suck. CQC snipers? i've seen 1. 1. total. the rest of you nerds hide. head shot me? i jackhammer snipers like you ALL the time. you come running back at me and i do it again. oh and we have the objective the 3rd and 4th times you come back. but then you get mad, respawn elsewhere and i see you, once again, hiding on amountain top trying to snipe ANOTHER objective. naw man you're obtuse, dense. thick. oh and you chose a PERFECT phrase to describe it: "servicing your teammates" you sure are!!! LOL Peace B ps i knew some implant sniper wanna be would vage about it. thanks for being the standout! What he said, I have tried redline camping many times and no matter how many kills you get, it doesn't matter if you go 30/0 on a mountain top, you aren't helping. The only scenario were mountain camping works is if you can effectively defend your teammates or an objective or 2. You must be able to do this very effectively to be useful, and even then your use at that particular mountain position is only temporary. However, if your on top of a random mountain taking pot shots at random targets your existence in the match is meaningless.
Darth Tyrannnus Citadel Mercantile Exchange Amarr-Caldari Mercantile Exchange 26	Posted - 2012.10.20 06:44:00 - [82] - Quote He's right though, lets be fair, we all know that random matches are going to give you a team full of snipers, its the same in any FPS game out there because people have some fascination with it and don't realise that they can get better ratios and more kills by not sitting in the same spot for 20 mins like a ****. Its one of the main reasons to run with a corp.[/quote] been TRYING to get into a corp. no takers. so stuck with public matches
RankRancid Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 51	Posted - 2012.10.20 07:04:00 - [83] - Quote BASSMEANT wrote: ohhhh god see there it is: so what if you headshot someone hacking a term: his teammate rezzes him and he finishes the hack before you reload your next round. naw man YOU miss the point if YOU aren't on the ground taking the objective YOU suck. CQC snipers? i've seen 1. 1. total. the rest of you nerds hide. head shot me? i jackhammer snipers like you ALL the time. you come running back at me and i do it again. oh and we have the objective the 3rd and 4th times you come back. but then you get mad, respawn elsewhere and i see you, once again, hiding on amountain top trying to snipe ANOTHER objective. naw man you're obtuse, dense. thick. oh and you chose a PERFECT phrase to describe it: "servicing your teammates" you sure are!!! LOL Peace B ps i knew some implant sniper wanna be would vage about it. thanks for being the standout! Are you the guy that kept reviving that poor soldier in front of the 2 snipers yesterday? 5 times? Great work from you medics. Makes me look good. Keep it up.
RankRancid Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 51	Posted - 2012.10.20 09:44:00 - [84] - Quote Sleepy Zan wrote: BASSMEANT wrote: ohhhh god see there it is: so what if you headshot someone hacking a term: his teammate rezzes him and he finishes the hack before you reload your next round. naw man YOU miss the point if YOU aren't on the ground taking the objective YOU suck. CQC snipers? i've seen 1. 1. total. the rest of you nerds hide. head shot me? i jackhammer snipers like you ALL the time. you come running back at me and i do it again. oh and we have the objective the 3rd and 4th times you come back. but then you get mad, respawn elsewhere and i see you, once again, hiding on amountain top trying to snipe ANOTHER objective. naw man you're obtuse, dense. thick. oh and you chose a PERFECT phrase to describe it: "servicing your teammates" you sure are!!! LOL Peace B ps i knew some implant sniper wanna be would vage about it. thanks for being the standout! What he said, I have tried redline camping many times and no matter how many kills you get, it doesn't matter if you go 30/0 on a mountain top, you aren't helping. The only scenario were mountain camping works is if you can effectively defend your teammates or an objective or 2. You must be able to do this very effectively to be useful, and even then your use at that particular mountain position is only temporary. However, if your on top of a random mountain taking pot shots at random targets your existence in the match is meaningless. I am willing to bet you made isk and some one was loosing isk? That is what public matches are for. Make money for my corp. Corp battle starts and tactics change. I am under no delusions. I am a small piece of my corps puzzle. I think the medics and assaults should start realising this too. You are no game changers without your corp killers around you.
Dewie Cheecham Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 677	Posted - 2012.10.20 12:00:00 - [85] - Quote Snipers are annoying. but also quite vulnerable. they balance nicely.
Cloudy Zan 107	Posted - 2012.10.20 15:33:00 - [86] - Quote RankRancid wrote: I am willing to bet you made isk and some one was loosing isk? That is what public matches are for. Make money for my corp. Corp battle starts and tactics change. I am under no delusions. I am a small piece of my corps puzzle. I think the medics and assaults should start realising this too. You are no game changers without your corp killers around you. Ya true you win. That is the only purpose when I solo in pub matches.
Oxskull Duncarino Shadow Company HQ 164	Posted - 2012.10.21 22:44:00 - [87] - Quote I don't see the problem with the no scope sway on crouched snipers. They are in power suits designed for a specific role. Aim stabilisation would be a guaranteed mechanic of the scout set of suits. Even recoil is grand. It's a rail gun firing a flechette round, which in modern day are very light if you disregard the anti armour flechette fired from tanks. Even with the fact that rail guns can propel rounds at incredible speeds, if the round has very little mass, then you'd have very little recoil. I run assault and generally have very little problem with snipers. I've only about 30 sniper rifle kills from the few times I've used the kit to counter snipe, generally one shot kills, but that's shooting a scout in the head as he's sitting still. If you wear assault, heavy, logi, you're grand if you keep moving.
Altina McAlterson TRUE TEA BAGGERS 362	Posted - 2012.10.21 22:48:00 - [88] - Quote You could always just rock a heavy with a sniper rifle.
SILENTSAM 69 Pro Hic Immortalis RISE of LEGION 421	Posted - 2012.10.21 23:07:00 - [89] - Quote If people are complaining about snipers then they must be set properly. A sniper is not balanced if people do not complain about them.
Sleepy Zan Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 2047	Posted - 2012.10.21 23:39:00 - [90] - Quote SILENTSAM 69 wrote: If people are complaining about snipers then they must be set properly. A sniper is not balanced if people do not complain about them. right now I think it needs a slight buff and nerf It needs the nerf when it comes to sway, it needs more overall sway and maybe a bigger subtraction to the sway for each level in sniper operations. They also need to return the kick and the sway in between shots. The only things I would consider buffing is give the advanced snipers less CPU and PG usage, right now they are identical to prototype snipers. Also proto snipers could use a bit of a buff to damage or a lower price, right now the nerfed damage gained from skills make it so the proto sniper is not worth the price and you might as well stick with standard.



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