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DUST Fiend Immobile Infantry 1902	Posted - 2012.10.17 23:53:00 - [31] - Quote Dirty Zan wrote: I don't think that the fact that there is no sway is the problem. I think the problem mainly is that the sniper snaps back to the same position with no sway after every shot. Also bullet drop and travel time needs to be added as well. I still think 0 sway is an issue, but you raise good points.
achiever Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 25	Posted - 2012.10.17 23:54:00 - [32] - Quote well running with a corp is no help at all and now with corp i run in too games where 6 sinpers sit in there red zone never come out and the rest run and get abc points with the 6 sinpers covering the 10 so when you try too take a point and when you start too take on the guys with the ar and pop a head up the 6 sinpers pop you and that sucks ass i have been killed more by sinpers then guys with ar takeing the fun right out of the game
Lasarte Ioni Noob Gaming 72	Posted - 2012.10.18 00:10:00 - [33] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Dirty Zan wrote: I don't think that the fact that there is no sway is the problem. I think the problem mainly is that the sniper snaps back to the same position with no sway after every shot. Also bullet drop and travel time needs to be added as well. I still think 0 sway is an issue, but you raise good points. I've heard the experimental milita sniper has bullet drop and delay, so maybe they are working to make all snipers behave like that, it's just hope, but maybe that will add some balance to the point and click sniper ( the 'mountain bandit' sniper is ultra easy to counter-snipe anyway but...)
Dirty Zan 2	Posted - 2012.10.18 00:21:00 - [34] - Quote Lasarte Ioni wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Dirty Zan wrote: I don't think that the fact that there is no sway is the problem. I think the problem mainly is that the sniper snaps back to the same position with no sway after every shot. Also bullet drop and travel time needs to be added as well. I still think 0 sway is an issue, but you raise good points. I've heard the experimental milita sniper has bullet drop and delay, so maybe they are working to make all snipers behave like that, it's just hope, but maybe that will add some balance to the point and click sniper ( the 'mountain bandit' sniper is ultra easy to counter-snipe anyway but...) I love that thing its fun as hell to use and fires railgun shots. I would use it exclusively if it came in a standard sniper variant instead of 3 shot militia And sometimes those mountain snipers can be almost unkillable unless you can find higher ground or find a sweet spot to actually hit them.
Andius Fidelitas Algintal Core Gallente Federation 51	Posted - 2012.10.18 00:22:00 - [35] - Quote Oh lovely, another, Snipers are OP, lolololololololololol. The whinyness of some people.....
DUST Fiend Immobile Infantry 1902	Posted - 2012.10.18 00:25:00 - [36] - Quote Andius Fidelitas wrote: Oh lovely, another, Snipers are OP, lolololololololololol. The whinyness of some people..... Please quote me calling them OP. I'll be waiting. I'm making observations Sherlock, chill out.
Andius Fidelitas Algintal Core Gallente Federation 51	Posted - 2012.10.18 01:03:00 - [37] - Quote Quote: Please quote me calling them OP. I'll be waiting. I'm making observations Sherlock, chill out. You asked for it. DUST Fiend wrote: Why is it again that snipers lose all sway when crouched? I mean, when does a sniper NOT crouch? Why is it cool for them to sit way up in the mountains, out of range of anything aside from other snipers, and not be penalized in any way for it? This never really used to bother me but it seems like every game I get into there are just more and more snipers, and it's frankly pretty damn annoying. I think a lot of this is simply because of the fact that you lose all sway when crouched. If you still had at least a little bit to deal with, no big deal, at least then I know you aren't just pointing and clicking, you're actually engaging with the game in some way. Let me translate this from your language, wahwahnese: Waaaaahhhh, why snipers get rocksteady aim!!!??? Waaaahh I ignore the reality of crouching snipers!!!! Waaaahhhhh, snipers fight in the map edges, NO FAIRR!!!! Waaaahh, I refuse to adapt when snipers are the primary norm!!!! Waaaaahhhh, I refuse to acknowledge camping as a tactical choice, that can easily be countered with proper hunting skills (and a fast character or vehicle) Waaaaahhh, I want my enemy snipers to have a hard time hitting me, WAAAAAHHHH!!! I have no need to find a a quote of you stating snipers are OP, it is already implicit in your expressions, pointing out their so called "easy" things they have (rocksteady aim, fighting from the mountain edges, etc.), under the rubrick that they have it "too easy" compared to the other classes. You evidently are ignorant of the drawbacks that snipers have to put up with, weak armor, 0 strafing capability (their one defensive asset in close quarters), avoidance of direct confrontation (ever heard of skirmishers moron?), and of course, limited ammo in some cases (when no nanos are at our disposal). No direct quote needed, only have to read between the lines that you can't put up a fight against the sniper. Quote: Oh, and screw skirmish. I'm only ever playing skirmish with a full group on mics, people are far too stupid to play skirmish with pubbies >_< This be true though. That's what corps are for.
DUST Fiend Immobile Infantry 1902	Posted - 2012.10.18 01:06:00 - [38] - Quote Yea, I'm not even reading that. Be on your way now.
TiMeSpLiT--TeR Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 326	Posted - 2012.10.18 01:25:00 - [39] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Why is it again that snipers lose all sway when crouched? I mean, when does a sniper NOT crouch? Why is it cool for them to sit way up in the mountains, out of range of anything aside from other snipers, and not be penalized in any way for it? This never really used to bother me but it seems like every game I get into there are just more and more snipers, and it's frankly pretty damn annoying. I think a lot of this is simply because of the fact that you lose all sway when crouched. If you still had at least a little bit to deal with, no big deal, at least then I know you aren't just pointing and clicking, you're actually engaging with the game in some way. Oh, and screw skirmish. I'm only ever playing skirmish with a full group on mics, people are far too stupid to play skirmish with pubbies >_< To counter a sniper, think like a sniper. Go for the hills.
Andius Fidelitas Algintal Core Gallente Federation 51	Posted - 2012.10.18 01:27:00 - [40] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Yea, I'm not even reading that. Be on your way now. tsk tsk I look forward in putting a round through your hollowed head from your favorite place, the hills on the edge of the map.

Tyrus Four 128	Posted - 2012.10.18 01:49:00 - [41] - Quote A good infiltrator solves this problem quite neatly. unless the sniper is hiding way in the red zone.
Shijima Kuraimaru WarRavens 164	Posted - 2012.10.18 02:02:00 - [42] - Quote Just my thoughts and opinions. I don't mind crouching to get rock steady aim, but I do think snipers should have to retarget after every shot, not just come back to the same point as the moment before they fired. Maybe kick the return aim point up 10 to 12 degrees so they have to bring it back down manually. Snipers should also be afraid to engage CQB and hope it's a last resort, not go seeking it out. They also shouldn't be allowed to just sit behind the red line. They should be exposed to all the same risks as all other combat classes.
Eternal Technique Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 281	Posted - 2012.10.18 02:06:00 - [43] - Quote Pub matches in any fps you play, there will be snipers who sit far away, camp in a corner, etc, etc. Changing mechanics will not make snipers stop this style of gameplay. Right now I believe sniping is pretty balanced. It is effective, but not overpowered. For the most part you only get OHK to the head, which is even harder at longer ranges. Like someone suggested there are good counters such as dropships and countersnipers. Please do not add scope sway while crouched it takes away a sniper's ability to be consistent and would make them useless imo.
McFurious BetaMax. 67	Posted - 2012.10.18 02:06:00 - [44] - Quote Snipers don't bother me. One of my favorite things is flanking a sniper whos got his face in his scope and just walking up next to him and bashing his head in. That and spamming mass driver rounds at them and watching them run. Heehee!
DUST Fiend Immobile Infantry 1902	Posted - 2012.10.18 02:14:00 - [45] - Quote Eternal Technique wrote: Please do not add scope sway while crouched it takes away a sniper's ability to be consistent and would make them useless imo. See, I disagree. I think having a slight amount of sway while crouched would only take away the consistency of BAD snipers, while good ones will adjust to it just fine. There should never be no sway unless they let you drop prone and put the rifle on a stand.
Eternal Technique Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 281	Posted - 2012.10.18 02:36:00 - [46] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Eternal Technique wrote: Please do not add scope sway while crouched it takes away a sniper's ability to be consistent and would make them useless imo. See, I disagree. I think having a slight amount of sway while crouched would only take away the consistency of BAD snipers, while good ones will adjust to it just fine. There should never be no sway unless they let you drop prone and put the rifle on a stand. Scope sway is random and unpredictable. It affects all snipers equally and adds an element of luck, which I do not like. Sure the better snipers would be able to compensate better but it would be a huge handicap. Prone should not be in the game imo i see no point for it. It encourages camping, makes snipers harder to find, etc. If you want to separate good snipers from bad ones increase headshot damage and decrease body shot damage. Headshots are what define good snipers. Imo this would frustrate bad snipers particularly at long range, which as I mentioned headshots at long range are difficult.
BAD FURRY Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 247	Posted - 2012.10.18 03:23:00 - [47] - Quote GM Hercules wrote: Snipers is one of the multiple options in the game; DUST allow you to take a role in the battlefield and you can choose the role that you think going to give success and victory. yes sniping GM i am a sniper as well and over the days and weeks and months it seems you guys at CCP have been making the snipes job way to ez. put it this way back in the EA pach it took SKILL to snipe some one on the run and draw a bead on some one took time and skill as well as some know how on how to trap and spot your Tg,s then the next pach comes and you remove the shake when you fire the sniper to the point were it only takes me or any other good sniper what use to be 11.5 sce -12sce to kill as fast as you could with 5 shots 5 players to 8.5 - 9 sce 5 for 5 all because you removed that shake. now you guys done anther buff to snipers by slowing down the jerk you get when firing the sniper so a good sniper now can kill 5 players with 5 shots with in 6.5 - 7 sce now! what i think you fail to see gm and the rest of CCP is that sniping should All ways take skill as you buff a way the jerk and shake of firing you speed up how fast the sniper can take his next shot what i see now is snipers laying down a nano hive and finding 1 player to shoot at and spamming round after round at the one player knowing full well just about every shot he take is going to most likely a hit do to the less shake and jerking the sniper do.s when firing. this means that sniping that use to take 3.5 sce to get a kill shot now has been dropped down to 1 sce witch means you can use the sniper on the move by quick scoping. i hope you seen the promlem i see here GM and that is its taking way to less skill to snipe now them ever so were ending up with games were one side will have over 50% of its force sniping and just wrecking the other team because its so ez to snipe it only take 1 sniper to hold a point and 1 more you watch his back witch meens ones a point is takin by the team with the most snipers it stays thats teams point and it takes 6-8 player to retake it witch ends up 5 - 6 will get sniped trying to re-hack it . and on some maps only having 3 points this is way to ez to win with just a force of snipers . so plz ccp think about it and make the rite move by making it harder for players to snipe like i said be for i snipe as well and been doing so from June and i can say with out a doubt that it is way to ez now its so ez a CAVE MAN can do it !
h3lenK3ller Doomheim 13	Posted - 2012.10.18 03:30:00 - [48] - Quote HAHA there are countless times that I have sneaked up behind a sniper and blasted them with a SMG. Most of the snipers are not smart, and refuse to look around after they get a kill. I personally dislike how snipers can point and shoot. Also i doubt ccp will add bullet drop to the scenario.
DUST Fiend Immobile Infantry 1902	Posted - 2012.10.18 04:05:00 - [49] - Quote Thank you for the first hand feedback FURRY, I hope CCP realizes how they've taken a lot of the required skill out of what should be one of the most skill heavy roles in the game.
Baal Roo Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 810	Posted - 2012.10.18 08:07:00 - [50] - Quote In every pub match I've played over the last few days it seems about 75% of the people on the field are sniping. The kill feed just looks ridiculous anymore with sniper kill after sniper kill after sniper kill. The only time the matches aren't 90% sniper kills anymore is when someone calls in a dropship with missiles and an afterburner and just flies in circles the whole match raining unstoppable fire. At this point it's hard to even move around for more than 10 or 15 seconds without getting cheapshotted.

The Robot Devil BetaMax. 15	Posted - 2012.10.18 08:08:00 - [51] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Thank you for the first hand feedback FURRY, I hope CCP realizes how they've taken a lot of the required skill out of what should be one of the most skill heavy roles in the game. Agreed. Do you think that when the maps have random objective placement and player placed installments that the sniper problem will slack off? I am looking forward to randomized maps, it will turn the game into a strategy and tactics game instead of a memorize the map game like all other shooters. Right now everyone knows every map, boring. Lets get some randomly generated maps.
GIZMO2606 Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 293	Posted - 2012.10.18 08:31:00 - [52] - Quote If you think sniping is bad now, wait till CCP adds in cloaking and since you can't strafe it'll be 10x as worse. THINK OF ALL THE CAMPING!!!! MAHAHAHAAH
Shijima Kuraimaru WarRavens 164	Posted - 2012.10.18 09:13:00 - [53] - Quote Sniping may also change when they bring in the bigger maps. If I remember correctly, these maps were playing now are small test maps. Once live, the small maps will be about three miles across.
Tien TheSecond Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 198	Posted - 2012.10.18 09:17:00 - [54] - Quote Ranger SnakeBlood wrote: Well in fairness crouching should and does stabalize a weapon but it may be over done if there is no sway, only way to have no sway with a sniper rifle is while using a bi pod which firstly we need to be in a position to use which we havent short of a chest high wall, but all in all yes if there is no sway(i dont know so the if is vital) then there should be some added but it should be significently better than standing up right. When was the last time you used a sniper rifle in a different galaxy?
Regis Mark V 91	Posted - 2012.10.18 10:07:00 - [55] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Why is it again that snipers lose all sway when crouched? I mean, when does a sniper NOT crouch? Why is it cool for them to sit way up in the mountains, out of range of anything aside from other snipers, and not be penalized in any way for it? This never really used to bother me but it seems like every game I get into there are just more and more snipers, and it's frankly pretty damn annoying. I think a lot of this is simply because of the fact that you lose all sway when crouched. If you still had at least a little bit to deal with, no big deal, at least then I know you aren't just pointing and clicking, you're actually engaging with the game in some way. Oh, and screw skirmish. I'm only ever playing skirmish with a full group on mics, people are far too stupid to play skirmish with pubbies >_< Put the strafe and movement speeds back up and you'll only see good snipers sniping. Sniping now is like shooting fish in a barrel because everyone moves so damn slow!
Azold N'Kar 12	Posted - 2012.10.18 11:16:00 - [56] - Quote GIZMO2606 wrote: If you think sniping is bad now, wait till CCP adds in cloaking and since you can't strafe it'll be 10x as worse. THINK OF ALL THE CAMPING!!!! MAHAHAHAAH Really hoping there is no 'cloaking' as such. Signature reduction is great, but 'cloaking' would be a major problem. I'm saying this as a sniper.
Bishop Sunrunner Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 8	Posted - 2012.10.18 11:44:00 - [57] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Why is it again that snipers lose all sway when crouched? I mean, when does a sniper NOT crouch? Why is it cool for them to sit way up in the mountains, out of range of anything aside from other snipers, and not be penalized in any way for it? This never really used to bother me but it seems like every game I get into there are just more and more snipers, and it's frankly pretty damn annoying. I think a lot of this is simply because of the fact that you lose all sway when crouched. If you still had at least a little bit to deal with, no big deal, at least then I know you aren't just pointing and clicking, you're actually engaging with the game in some way. Oh, and screw skirmish. I'm only ever playing skirmish with a full group on mics, people are far too stupid to play skirmish with pubbies >_< Select a sniper and hit em the way he do. I do this all the time when my squad is dump enough to stick together. If a sniper spams while sitting on the mountan use the following effective formula: Iam a sniper, sniper-hunter. Hunt especially this guy till he gets enough of playin the sniper or is whining like all the fav sniper players do when they could get in to a spot to snipe
John Genericname Gelente Special Forces 16	Posted - 2012.10.18 11:49:00 - [58] - Quote Sniping in Dust is anything but easy, it takes skill, and whole lot of patience. Headshots are hard to pull off when the reticle in your scope is bigger than the head of the guy your aiming at. IMO, the OHK zone should be increased to center mass considering that's what real snipers are trained to shoot at. Adding sway when crouched would make a 300 meter headshot more than impossible, it would also take away from the fun of sniping.
Rrinn Ka Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2012.10.18 11:59:00 - [59] - Quote Snipers annoyed the hell out of me, so this build, I skilled up and tried to play as one. Not as easy or fun as I had hoped. Consequently, I'm playing far less.
Azold N'Kar 12	Posted - 2012.10.18 12:05:00 - [60] - Quote Rrinn Ka wrote: Snipers annoyed the hell out of me, so this build, I skilled up and tried to play as one. Not as easy or fun as I had hoped. Consequently, I'm playing far less. Its certainly not as easy as many seem to think. Counter sniping is a popular pastime, and there are many infantry that seem to take a great deal of pleasure in chasing down snipers. Having said that, it is incredibly rewarding to be able to turn the tide of battle (on a good day) and literally clean an entire valley of enemies.



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