DUST Search - strafing isn't a method of "dodging bullets"

Arcushek Dion wrote:

Zekain Kade wrote:

It is a method of avoiding a sustained lock on by the player shooting you. You can't dodge bullets in this game because most of the weapons ARE hit scan. (they hit any surface you're aiming at instantly.) Some that aren't hit scan are the forge guns, swarms, mass drivers... basically anything that does not fire a bullet of some kind is projectile based.

It may look like they actually take time to across the battle field, but that's just an animation, the bullets ARE actually hitting what ever surface, or entity you're aiming at instantly.

Strafing required skill to be practiced effectively. Now... with player movement nerfed to ****, it has made this one small tactic that could change the outcome of a fight to a near worthless state.

Slow player movement DOES not encourage tactical warfare, it encourages camping, if you think I'm wrong, then you're delusional.
Deciding NOT to go somewhere because you're too slow to get there is not a tactical decision.

Deciding not to go somewhere because you're too slow to get there is a game breaking limit.

CCP does not want equipment to be the largest deciding factor in this game to decide who wins what battles, yet with this nerf, they did just that. If you want to win, tank it out with the best gear, and out shoot the other turtle that's running at you. Who ever has the thickest shell wins, or has the biggest gun, or has the right weapon for the situation.

Now don't get me wrong, some of these factors should help decide who wins what battle. But no factor should decide who wins more then a player's skill. Even the most casual FPS games abide by this rule of thumb. Yes, even COD.

Bring back our strafe speed, give us our ability to actually play this game to our full ability.

Strafe speed has absolutely nothing to do with advancing on a position. That's forward movement. If you want to advance on a defended position you work as a squad providing cover fire to allow other squadmates to advance towards the enemy. There's nothing strategic about dancing your way toward the enemy. It's just exploiting a weakness of the control scheme.

Pages: 1 2 [3] :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Mavado V Noriega SyNergy Gaming 2283	Posted - 2012.10.06 12:46:00 - [61] - Quote GIZMO2606 wrote: Fivetimes Infinity wrote: You're wrong, and I'm not delusional. I have never seen anyone but a sniper camping in this game. Fights are not decided based on equipment. The kind of hyperbole and doomsaying you people engage in to build a case for more Halo-like gameplay is silly. Accept the fact that this simply comes down to preference, and that lower strafe speed doesn't mean the game no longer involves skill or nonsense like that. Dust is in a good place right now as far as strafing goes. It would be a shame if the vocal minority were to ruin that. You must have never played Halo 1 for the Xbox. When you ADS you can't really strafe and to be honest the strafing here is pretty much the same as it was with Halo 1. Now equipment doesn't decide a fight? Tell that to my Assault A Series, GEK Assault Rifle, Complex Damage Mods and Armor Rep. I'm able to drop players with no problem doesn't matter if it's a Heavy, Scout, Assault. Without strafing unnerfed, it makes the game have a lack feature in the gun game area. what gizzy said tbqh. Gear wins because now that strafe sucks it comes down to who can do more DPS a good player in **** gear can make it harder for his opponent with better gear to land shots while he can be landing more how can ppl not see this simple logic adds SKILL to the game is beyond me.
Mavado V Noriega SyNergy Gaming 2283	Posted - 2012.10.06 12:51:00 - [62] - Quote Regis Mark V wrote: Mavado V Noriega wrote: +1 Never thought we would agree on the same thing. we agree on alot of things actually regis u just continuously rant about them and that honestly doesnt help the situation lol i prefer to keep calm and post feedback and suggestions and if CCP listens then kool if they dont then oh well.....hope the game turns out well either way. Still havent gotten any dev feedback on my VR training thread and with this new skill cap in pubbin is boring so might as well practice with corp/alliance mates tbh
Sha Kharn Clone Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 1087	Posted - 2012.10.06 13:03:00 - [63] - Quote + 1 op this build would be ok if it wasnt for this...and the AR megabuff..um and OB spam and....I'll just stop there
Fivetimes Infinity Immobile Infantry 1086	Posted - 2012.10.06 13:32:00 - [64] - Quote GIZMO2606 wrote: You must be one of those people that QQ'd about strafing players so you cried to the Devs right? Those with gun game can strafe and shoot at the same time and counter strafe and shoot at the same time. Those that lack skill in FPS games need someone or something to give them a edge. With that said, the nerf was highly unneeded and anyone that is good at FPS games know that. Yes, I totally cried to CCP and they were all like "awww, Fivetimes Infinity, why're you so sad?" and I was like "ohhh, strafing is hard, it is a true man's FPS skill to mash the left-right directions while fighting, I cannot handle this!" and they were all "okay dawg, we'll change the way our FPS game works to make you happy." Then we terrorist fist-bumped and I was made King of Iceland.
fenrir storm Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 314	Posted - 2012.10.06 13:37:00 - [65] - Quote HowDidThatTaste wrote: I believe the slower straife speed is just what this game needed. Playing a heavy we have no straife speed so we adapted by using cover. This is how it should be makes it much more tactile than running straight at someone and expecting your dance moves to be the deciding factor. This makes your aiming skills much more important. And you already have auto aim available. So I really don't get this complaint. Get good! May be it is but it has just taken a little bit more fun out of the game, witch seems to happen with each new build
Zekain Kade BetaMax. 931	Posted - 2012.10.06 17:07:00 - [66] - Quote i really wish CCP would reply to this on going matter, so many of us have been stating that we don't like the state of this build. they NEED to say something.
The Polish Hammer Doomheim 373	Posted - 2012.10.06 17:12:00 - [67] - Quote Fivetimes Infinity wrote: You're wrong, and I'm not delusional. I have never seen anyone but a sniper camping in this game. Fights are not decided based on equipment. The kind of hyperbole and doomsaying you people engage in to build a case for more Halo-like gameplay is silly. Accept the fact that this simply comes down to preference, and that lower strafe speed doesn't mean the game no longer involves skill or nonsense like that. Dust is in a good place right now as far as strafing goes. It would be a shame if the vocal minority were to ruin that. Fivetimes, sometimes I think I love you... Err...uhh...what?
EnglishSnake Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 1012	Posted - 2012.10.06 17:19:00 - [68] - Quote I thought aiming won the battles?
Zekain Kade BetaMax. 931	Posted - 2012.10.06 17:22:00 - [69] - Quote EnglishSnake wrote: I thought aiming won the battles? aiming correctly is a part of skill. if your aim sucks, you'll probably loose. In this build however, your equipment decides who wins and who loses CCP did not want that to begin with, but they did just that with this new build.
Ignatius Crumwald Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 475	Posted - 2012.10.06 17:29:00 - [70] - Quote I guess they're going to try and follow in the footsteps of the World of Tanks model one way or another, because they've turned infantry into tanks. acc If you can tank more damage in a face to face battle - you win - no exceptions.

Loss Tovas ZionTCD Legacy Rising 236	Posted - 2012.10.06 17:42:00 - [71] - Quote Zekain Kade wrote: EnglishSnake wrote: I thought aiming won the battles? aiming correctly is a part of skill. if your aim sucks, you'll probably loose. In this build however, your equipment decides who wins and who loses CCP did not want that to begin with, but they did just that with this new build. I disagree with you. I fought against you in the last build more than a few times and while you are good, you aren't that good. In this build being able to solo it up has gone the way of the dodo and I couldn't be happier. This game is about teamwork and teamwork owns all. My squad of 4 guys that I run with each fit a niche and we spread the point gain across all of us. So does that mean I don't end up on the top of the leader board having gone 6:1? Sure, but who cares? Because my squad can damn near guarantee victory. And that's what this game is about. I understand that some players are approaching this with the New Eden mind set of open world = what I ever I want it to, but this game isn't Skyrim. There actually is the tangible MMO endgame that I think a lot of you FPS guys are missing here.
Laurent Cazaderon Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 1155	Posted - 2012.10.06 17:44:00 - [72] - Quote i'll add, once again, my share regarding this straf issue. Saying straffing is the base of spray and pray is hilarious. Try that with no recoil weapon. In counter strike, not strafing was the death of you just like spraying as weapons had a real recoil. short burst and strafing in and out of cover was the way to play. But as you can't always be into cover (unless you're a massive camper) when you play objectives, how good you were at strafing and then placing short burst was the key to avoi being killed because you got spotted first. Also, Counter strike: 3 bullets in chest with most weapons = Death. Wich means avoiding one burst with strak skills was the difference between frag and be fragged. Now in dust, you have tons of hp. With this slow movement speed, being shot first and with this huge amount of HP, there is no way you can reverse the fight against a decent player. You can say whatever you like, this is how it is now. Now. i made in another thread a case for straf speed as being the equivalent of speed tanking in EVE. And CCP ALWAYS stated that the difference in mobility was supposed to play this role with the different type of suits. Also, i LOL at those who say scouts were unkillable in precursor. Yes hit detection made some encounter pretty weird and frustrating but they werent the nemesis people seem to describe. At least not for me. Now, they're made of paper (as always) and are basically screwed. I also LOL at those saying that scouts arent made to get in a close fight. This game is about choosing your play-style. Whenever something forces you in a specific style of play, it is WRONG. Scouts are supposed to be fast and then perfectly suited to quickly get CQC and use weapons accordingly, being nova knives or shotgun. Heavies can be too in a defensive way to prevent those type of rush when defending a position with their higher survivability. etc... Try and offer all those options now that you absolutely CANT try and disturb a camping guy aim by making moves. I would be perfectly fine with a higher recoil when moving just like any decent FPS works. But the game is at the moment both predictable and boring. Do i mean that playing while NEVER using cover should be valid ? that you should be able to rush a guy moving left right and never get killed ? of course not. This about balance. Try and get out of your head that even with precursor movements, playing cover style would be perfectly effective with the new HD. A guy rushing at you will always take more bullets than you in the first time of the fight. Then it's up to you to be good enough to track your target and not get overwhelmed. NOT the game to ease your pain. Like it or not. Good use of cover is a skill. Good moves while in a fight is a skill. Both are valid and were valid in precursor while now, this massive nerf took away one of them and gives the advantage to people staying in position. Crippling the gameplay. Just witness how hard people camp now when objectives seem lost. I can barely play the game now without being bored or *** about it. And as you guys are fan of the "get good" **. i'll jsut add that i still maitain my KDR above 2.0. Finally, what i see is that among the 30 people in my team who play Dust like hell for weeks\month, almost everyone is already bored by that build. And those guys come from BF, MAG, or PC shooters....
Arcushek Dion Doomheim 73	Posted - 2012.10.06 17:52:00 - [73] - Quote Zekain Kade wrote: It is a method of avoiding a sustained lock on by the player shooting you. You can't dodge bullets in this game because most of the weapons ARE hit scan. (they hit any surface you're aiming at instantly.) Some that aren't hit scan are the forge guns, swarms, mass drivers... basically anything that does not fire a bullet of some kind is projectile based. It may look like they actually take time to across the battle field, but that's just an animation, the bullets ARE actually hitting what ever surface, or entity you're aiming at instantly. Strafing required skill to be practiced effectively. Now... with player movement nerfed to ****, it has made this one small tactic that could change the outcome of a fight to a near worthless state. Slow player movement DOES not encourage tactical warfare, it encourages camping, if you think I'm wrong, then you're delusional. Deciding NOT to go somewhere because you're too slow to get there is not a tactical decision. Deciding not to go somewhere because you're too slow to get there is a game breaking limit. CCP does not want equipment to be the largest deciding factor in this game to decide who wins what battles, yet with this nerf, they did just that. If you want to win, tank it out with the best gear, and out shoot the other turtle that's running at you. Who ever has the thickest shell wins, or has the biggest gun, or has the right weapon for the situation. Now don't get me wrong, some of these factors should help decide who wins what battle. But no factor should decide who wins more then a player's skill. Even the most casual FPS games abide by this rule of thumb. Yes, even COD. Bring back our strafe speed, give us our ability to actually play this game to our full ability. Strafe speed has absolutely nothing to do with advancing on a position. That's forward movement. If you want to advance on a defended position you work as a squad providing cover fire to allow other squadmates to advance towards the enemy. There's nothing strategic about dancing your way toward the enemy. It's just exploiting a weakness of the control scheme.
EnglishSnake Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 1012	Posted - 2012.10.06 18:00:00 - [74] - Quote Zekain Kade wrote: EnglishSnake wrote: I thought aiming won the battles? aiming correctly is a part of skill. if your aim sucks, you'll probably loose. In this build however, your equipment decides who wins and who loses CCP did not want that to begin with, but they did just that with this new build. Someone tell my milita gear then because its doing okay for me
Zekain Kade BetaMax. 931	Posted - 2012.10.06 18:05:00 - [75] - Quote Arcushek Dion wrote: Zekain Kade wrote: It is a method of avoiding a sustained lock on by the player shooting you. You can't dodge bullets in this game because most of the weapons ARE hit scan. (they hit any surface you're aiming at instantly.) Some that aren't hit scan are the forge guns, swarms, mass drivers... basically anything that does not fire a bullet of some kind is projectile based. It may look like they actually take time to across the battle field, but that's just an animation, the bullets ARE actually hitting what ever surface, or entity you're aiming at instantly. Strafing required skill to be practiced effectively. Now... with player movement nerfed to ****, it has made this one small tactic that could change the outcome of a fight to a near worthless state. Slow player movement DOES not encourage tactical warfare, it encourages camping, if you think I'm wrong, then you're delusional. Deciding NOT to go somewhere because you're too slow to get there is not a tactical decision. Deciding not to go somewhere because you're too slow to get there is a game breaking limit. CCP does not want equipment to be the largest deciding factor in this game to decide who wins what battles, yet with this nerf, they did just that. If you want to win, tank it out with the best gear, and out shoot the other turtle that's running at you. Who ever has the thickest shell wins, or has the biggest gun, or has the right weapon for the situation. Now don't get me wrong, some of these factors should help decide who wins what battle. But no factor should decide who wins more then a player's skill. Even the most casual FPS games abide by this rule of thumb. Yes, even COD. Bring back our strafe speed, give us our ability to actually play this game to our full ability. Strafe speed has absolutely nothing to do with advancing on a position. That's forward movement. If you want to advance on a defended position you work as a squad providing cover fire to allow other squadmates to advance towards the enemy. There's nothing strategic about dancing your way toward the enemy. It's just exploiting a weakness of the control scheme. you are just all kinds of stupid.
Mobius Wyvern BetaMax. 1216	Posted - 2012.10.06 18:13:00 - [76] - Quote How much slower is the strafe speed, actually? To me it feels more like they've just added more wait to our characters such that gun battles aren't like the adadadadadadadada fests of Planetside, but that might just be me. Actually, why not have a small percentage bonus for intertia reduction on the Mobility skill?
Shiro Mokuzan GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 106	Posted - 2012.10.06 18:40:00 - [77] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: +1 A scout strafes just as slow as a heavy, and strafe speed is basically the only defense that the scout had in a gun fight, and now its gone. This isn't just a preference issue, its also a balance issue (poor scouts). The scout shouldn't be getting into head-to-head gunfights. He should be using maneuver and stealth. He has the speed to disengage from combat he can't win and to get into position to where he has the advantage. The strafe nerf made scouts need to be played like scouts, not as circle-strafing combat machines. Scouts need tactics to survive now and that's a good thing.
Shiro Mokuzan GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 106	Posted - 2012.10.06 18:46:00 - [78] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: HowDidThatTaste wrote: I believe the slower straife speed is just what this game needed. Playing a heavy we have no straife speed so we adapted by using cover. This is how it should be makes it much more tactile than running straight at someone and expecting your dance moves to be the deciding factor. This makes your aiming skills much more important. And you already have auto aim available. So I really don't get this complaint. Get good! Tactical means relating to tactics, and tactics is whatever set of available actions you do to maximize a desired result. This means if stafing was an available action, then it would be tactical. Tactical =/= realistic. I hate it when people just throw the word "tactical" around. When people use the word "tactical" with regard to FPSs, they usually mean that it involves some degree of real- world infantry tactics--things like using cover, suppressing fire, flanking, etc. High-speed strafing makes cover and the rest of these tactics mostly irrelevant. You could also argue that Super Mario Bros. is tactical, but that's not what is meant here.
RolyatDerTeufel D3ath D3alers RISE of LEGION 1648	Posted - 2012.10.06 19:12:00 - [79] - Quote Zekain Kade wrote: TiMeSpLiT--TeR wrote: Strafing + Scout + Shotgun = gay Strafing+ anything other then a scout + What ever weapon he's using = a way survival. in this build, you're forced to sit there and take the blast. Many times if i'm in a firefight with 2 or more people while i was trying to flank. I'll just stand there for my death cause scouts (aren't ment to tank anything, except with their speed) and the speed boost modules are only useful for sprinting, which is only 1 direction. Now with the old movement, i could try to get to cover so i could even turn my screen to try and run out of the situation. Scouts have lost the little power they had.
semperfi1999 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 317	Posted - 2012.10.06 19:21:00 - [80] - Quote I am always amazed at how many people hate the fact that you can move and shoot while they can only shoot or move. So many people want a watered down game where there is little to no action going on. Right now those who are doing the best are the ones who are in the back earning WP by repairing vehicles and then using OBS. I have been in several games where we have lost due to the clone count because we pushed the enemy to the red line and then they just OBS us to no clones despite the fact that they were doing virtually no dmg to our MCC. Is this really what we want this game to become? Because right now this is actually the most effective way to win on most maps. Also its dumb that if you turn a corner and run into 5 guys you just die period. You cant possibly move back around the corner and try to throw a nade to make them think twice about chasing you. A skilled person who might be able to at least make a stand and even though they would likely end up dying if they are good enough maybe they wont. Right now there is no skilled evasion of enemies if you suddenly find yourself in a tight spot. If your arguement is that they should have been aware of their surroundings and not gotten into that predicament....when I would agree. But my question is if you have 5 guys shooting at 1 person why cant you kill him without the strafe being nerfed? I mean seriously its only 1 guy. So while I agree he should have ended up dying I cant sit back and say that because of this we should automatically give the kill to the 5 people. They should have to earn the kill by actually shooting him and if they have bad aim and he is able to make it out of there then they should be ashamed of their poor aim not say this game is unfair because he has skills that allow him to utilize his movements to avoid being shot by ppl with bad aim.



Pages: 1 2 [3] :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page