DUST Search - Strafe Speed nerfed!?

Shutter Fly wrote:

STB Vermaak Doe wrote:

Shutter Fly wrote:

Tony Calif wrote:

Scouts SHOULD hit and run. Now they have to hit, throw 3 Thukkers (SOONtm) and hope somehow they survived. I hate shotgun scouts. Previously you've been nasty as hell running SMG scout. Now I can just track you far too easily. It's sad. Scouts speed was their only hope.
It was pretty important for assault too :(

This.

I was going to try and see how this build progressed before forming any opinions about it, but based off of what I've played so far, I've already got a bad feeling about it.

I've mentioned this problem to others in-game, mostly in the context of scout suits. I usually get the same response, "scout suits are for stealth now, as they should be, spec into signature dampeners and stop whining." The problem is, what am I supposed to do after I sneak up to someone? With strafe speed nerfed, I get one stealthy kill with my shotgun before I'm inevitably shredded by an AR. I no longer have any viable way to defend myself against an attack by an assault AR. I could take cover, but then what? I would just be delaying my certain doom. If I was able to strafe at a rate that was halfway consistent with my forward movement, I would at least have a chance at maneuvering long enough for a good shot. In the current state, I'm lucky to go even, I don't get a chance to fight because I'm consistently dead before I can get behind cover. I can't fight because my CQC suit, with a CQC weapon, with modules fitted for CQC, is inferior in CQC...to a weapon that can kill me from completely out of my maximum effective range.

How is the scout a cqc suit? That explains why it started with sniper rifle skills Roll

. What part about stealth has to do with a shotgun, you've always had a knife/option for a knife so use it

The scout suit makes a great CQC suit. Its balance towards fast recharging shields screams CQC, allowing it to take damage and quickly regain health. Other suits take time to regain health, which is better for longer range confrontations where it is easier to find consistent cover for longer regeneration times. This is not useful for a sniper, who has plenty of time to take cover and regain as much HP as necessary. The scouts stealth works both ways, allowing CQC players to get close and snipers to stay hidden.

The shotgun is a one shot kill weapon for CQC. This makes it a very viable option when sneaking up to an enemy, although it's just used as an example in this case, due to it being the weapon I use most regularly. The knife (in this build at least) is much too situational to be used as a consistent stealth wepon, due to it being impossible to charge while running, meaning it rarely can be used on an opponent that is moving.

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Khortez D Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 51	Posted - 2012.10.02 04:45:00 - [61] - Quote Ignatius Crumwald wrote: Khortez D wrote: Ignatius Crumwald wrote: If you think a heavy should strafe as fast as a scout, you might be a wee bit on the tard side of the curve. that would be funny FYI: They do and it's not funny. if you dont see the humor.. thats alright, other then that err. yeah they shouldn't move fast at all edit: can't say much about them anyway since i been using nothing but assault
Crimson Moon V Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 184	Posted - 2012.10.02 04:47:00 - [62] - Quote Sha Kharn Clone wrote: I know its only been one day but the fun has gone out of it for me in this build. Its personal I guess yes I liked strafing as both a scout and as an assult. I was good at keeping on target while spinning and jumping all over the place. That playstyle has gone and its what I enjoyed the most in dust (well maybe dropshipflying also kinda broken still). Now I could HTFU, adapt or die or get good but if the fun for me is missing then I'm not sure I see a reason too. Guess its a QQ post and tbh yea kinda is . I dont like how the games shaping up but thats my problem but still I have a right to not like it and to say so. All the suits seem the same when your fighting them and its all abit grey and dull now for me at least. Well thats my QQing over with. Enjoy your new game eveyone. I agree, this is not my kind of game. Its sad because the mmo aspects of this game are really interesting. The gameplay/gun mechanics/health to strafe speed ratio is trash imo. Its turned into a boring campfest. crack ops 2 is it I guess. I had a lot of faith in ccp but every build this game gets worse. Its zipper all over again.
Shutter Fly Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 26	Posted - 2012.10.02 04:51:00 - [63] - Quote STB Vermaak Doe wrote: Shutter Fly wrote: Tony Calif wrote: Scouts SHOULD hit and run. Now they have to hit, throw 3 Thukkers (SOONtm) and hope somehow they survived. I hate shotgun scouts. Previously you've been nasty as hell running SMG scout. Now I can just track you far too easily. It's sad. Scouts speed was their only hope. It was pretty important for assault too :( This. I was going to try and see how this build progressed before forming any opinions about it, but based off of what I've played so far, I've already got a bad feeling about it. I've mentioned this problem to others in-game, mostly in the context of scout suits. I usually get the same response, "scout suits are for stealth now, as they should be, spec into signature dampeners and stop whining." The problem is, what am I supposed to do after I sneak up to someone? With strafe speed nerfed, I get one stealthy kill with my shotgun before I'm inevitably shredded by an AR. I no longer have any viable way to defend myself against an attack by an assault AR. I could take cover, but then what? I would just be delaying my certain doom. If I was able to strafe at a rate that was halfway consistent with my forward movement, I would at least have a chance at maneuvering long enough for a good shot. In the current state, I'm lucky to go even, I don't get a chance to fight because I'm consistently dead before I can get behind cover. I can't fight because my CQC suit, with a CQC weapon, with modules fitted for CQC, is inferior in CQC...to a weapon that can kill me from completely out of my maximum effective range. How is the scout a cqc suit? That explains why it started with sniper rifle skills. What part about stealth has to do with a shotgun, you've always had a knife/option for a knife so use it The scout suit makes a great CQC suit. Its balance towards fast recharging shields screams CQC, allowing it to take damage and quickly regain health. Other suits take time to regain health, which is better for longer range confrontations where it is easier to find consistent cover for longer regeneration times. This is not useful for a sniper, who has plenty of time to take cover and regain as much HP as necessary. The scouts stealth works both ways, allowing CQC players to get close and snipers to stay hidden. The shotgun is a one shot kill weapon for CQC. This makes it a very viable option when sneaking up to an enemy, although it's just used as an example in this case, due to it being the weapon I use most regularly. The knife (in this build at least) is much too situational to be used as a consistent stealth wepon, due to it being impossible to charge while running, meaning it rarely can be used on an opponent that is moving.
Khortez D Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 51	Posted - 2012.10.02 04:51:00 - [64] - Quote i believe it'll get better, after all it's a beta, right now we aren't even talking to CCP anymore, its more like the player base
Crimson Moon V Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 184	Posted - 2012.10.02 04:52:00 - [65] - Quote Khortez D wrote: i believe it'll get better, after all it's a beta, right now we aren't even talking to CCP anymore, its more like the player base That beta **** doesn't fly anymore. Its 3 years later and the game is still falling apart. I can only imagine the pressure sony is putting on ccp right now.
Sha Kharn Clone Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 1087	Posted - 2012.10.02 04:54:00 - [66] - Quote Yea pesonaly I'm gutted not because I put money into this game already but because it has been such a blast for me and I have had heaps of fun. With each build its slowly lost the bits I really enjoyed and now we are left with this build now and well its just dull. I'm defo gutted and yea I know I'm still QQing lolz. Was a short love affair with console gameing and well if it aint sweet bitter.
Khortez D Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 51	Posted - 2012.10.02 04:54:00 - [67] - Quote gota say though out of all the betas i've played/seen/heard, this is the most complex one. its doing something i never heard of before
Sha Kharn Clone Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 1087	Posted - 2012.10.02 04:57:00 - [68] - Quote Yep mad props to em for sure. They seem to be listining to the majority and giving them what they want. Its not what I want and I just gota live with it. Tony siad maybe I should try tribes
Shutter Fly Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 26	Posted - 2012.10.02 05:01:00 - [69] - Quote Crimson Moon V wrote: Khortez D wrote: i believe it'll get better, after all it's a beta, right now we aren't even talking to CCP anymore, its more like the player base That beta **** doesn't fly anymore. Its 3 years later and the game is still falling apart. I can only imagine the pressure sony is putting on ccp right now. I still see that this can get better, I can even see the game being successful if this isn't changed. Even though we feel that the game should be this way, I'm confident CCP will do what they feel is in line with what they want it to be. We've already seen that they were on the right track in the last build, there were just a few kinks (lag/hit detection) that got in the way. They need to feel the different options out before they finalize it. Hopefully, if the opinions expressed in this thread persist, CCP will see it the way we do.
STB Vermaak Doe 558	Posted - 2012.10.02 05:02:00 - [70] - Quote Shutter Fly wrote: STB Vermaak Doe wrote: Shutter Fly wrote: Tony Calif wrote: Scouts SHOULD hit and run. Now they have to hit, throw 3 Thukkers (SOONtm) and hope somehow they survived. I hate shotgun scouts. Previously you've been nasty as hell running SMG scout. Now I can just track you far too easily. It's sad. Scouts speed was their only hope. It was pretty important for assault too :( This. I was going to try and see how this build progressed before forming any opinions about it, but based off of what I've played so far, I've already got a bad feeling about it. I've mentioned this problem to others in-game, mostly in the context of scout suits. I usually get the same response, "scout suits are for stealth now, as they should be, spec into signature dampeners and stop whining." The problem is, what am I supposed to do after I sneak up to someone? With strafe speed nerfed, I get one stealthy kill with my shotgun before I'm inevitably shredded by an AR. I no longer have any viable way to defend myself against an attack by an assault AR. I could take cover, but then what? I would just be delaying my certain doom. If I was able to strafe at a rate that was halfway consistent with my forward movement, I would at least have a chance at maneuvering long enough for a good shot. In the current state, I'm lucky to go even, I don't get a chance to fight because I'm consistently dead before I can get behind cover. I can't fight because my CQC suit, with a CQC weapon, with modules fitted for CQC, is inferior in CQC...to a weapon that can kill me from completely out of my maximum effective range. How is the scout a cqc suit? That explains why it started with sniper rifle skills. What part about stealth has to do with a shotgun, you've always had a knife/option for a knife so use it The scout suit makes a great CQC suit. Its balance towards fast recharging shields screams CQC, allowing it to take damage and quickly regain health. Other suits take time to regain health, which is better for longer range confrontations where it is easier to find consistent cover for longer regeneration times. This is not useful for a sniper, who has plenty of time to take cover and regain as much HP as necessary. The scouts stealth works both ways, allowing CQC players to get close and snipers to stay hidden. The shotgun is a one shot kill weapon for CQC. This makes it a very viable option when sneaking up to an enemy, although it's just used as an example in this case, due to it being the weapon I use most regularly. The knife (in this build at least) is much too situational to be used as a consistent stealth wepon, due to it being impossible to charge while running, meaning it rarely can be used on an opponent that is moving. The point of being stealthy is to not give up your position which is your fault when using a shotgun and you deserve whatever you get from playing haphazardly, also stealth isn't meant to be rushed which means we can do without a sprinting knife. Even though it is the fastest regenerator, it doesn't have the staying power of ant other suit which makes it one of the worst choices for CQB.

Khortez D Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 51	Posted - 2012.10.02 05:02:00 - [71] - Quote hope my ps3 can handle it though. cause if it messes up from this. ima be doing some serious QQing. if you thought i was QQin before, you aint seen nothin yet.. had enough with the freezes and stuff. D: but i know they workin on it
Shutter Fly Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 26	Posted - 2012.10.02 05:14:00 - [72] - Quote STB Vermaak Doe wrote: The point of being stealthy is to not give up your position which is your fault when using a shotgun and you deserve whatever you get from playing haphazardly, also stealth isn't meant to be rushed which means we can do without a sprinting knife. Even though it is the fastest regenerator, it doesn't have the staying power of ant other suit which makes it one of the worst choices for CQB. Like I said, I just used the shotgun as an example, the same is true with any weapon you might try to sneak up with. The shotgun is just good for guaranteeing a kill before the enemy knows you are there. A sprinting knife is very important whether you are rushing or not, if you can't get close enough to stab them, then you can't kill them. You can't be stealthy if you are constantly having to catch back up to them every time they happen to move. You need to wait for the right moment, then swiftly move in and make the kill(s) before you are noticed. This doesn't work if you are awkwardly walking up as your knife charges. Staying power is only one aspect of CQC, when you are in a tight situation it is very helpful to be able to keep restoring shields with very little delay when moving from enemy to enemy. A sniper or stealth soldier has no use for this, as they both have bursts of damage that are greatly spread out. Not to say the scout isn't well suited for those roles, those just aren't the only ones it is well suited for.
STB Vermaak Doe 558	Posted - 2012.10.02 05:19:00 - [73] - Quote Any stealth kill shouldn't be a simple handout, you should have to work and plan to get that kill. If we do an equal amount of damage to each other until one of us dies with you in a scout suit and me in an assault, I've won the CQC battle. Even though you heal fast, you're working with an easy to crush glass tank.
Shutter Fly Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 26	Posted - 2012.10.02 05:30:00 - [74] - Quote STB Vermaak Doe wrote: Any stealth kill shouldn't be a simple handout, you should have to work and plan to get that kill. If we do an equal amount of damage to each other until one of us dies with you in a scout suit and me in an assault, I've won the CQC battle. Even though you heal fast, you're working with an easy to crush glass tank. I didn't say a stealth kill should be a handout, I just said it should't be overly awkward and tedious. Especially with a weapon that doesn't seemingly have any other purpose. Yes, if an assault suit and scout suit do equal amounts of instantaneous damage to each other, then the scout should be in worse trouble. But if that damage is over a 10s period in a CQC area, supposedly with some amount of cover (I'm not saying a scout should win any battle in an open field), they should at least end evenly. As the scout has already recovered a decent portion of his shields, while the assault hasn't. I'm not saying the scout is the ultimate best option for CQC, I'm saying it is well suited for it when the situation is correct. In this build however, its capabilities to utilize those benefits is greatly hindered with the reduction in strafing speed.
STB Vermaak Doe 558	Posted - 2012.10.02 05:34:00 - [75] - Quote A full shield rep on a scout only means two scrambler shots or three to 4 ar shoots until your already weakened armour is gone aswell
Shutter Fly Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 26	Posted - 2012.10.02 05:42:00 - [76] - Quote STB Vermaak Doe wrote: A full shield rep on a scout only means two scrambler shots or three to 4 ar shoots until your already weakened armour is gone aswell Yes. But the Assault is already down that ~200-300HP as well in the hypothetical situation, and unlike the scout, is still down ~200HP. Meaning that very situation does in fact put them on equal footing. This also means the the scout needs to spend progressively less time out of cover to whittle the Assault's HP down. The Assault's best option in this situation is to fall back, meaning the Assault must take the situation out of CQC, where the opponent seemingly has an advantage.
STB Vermaak Doe 558	Posted - 2012.10.02 05:46:00 - [77] - Quote The assault's increased pg/cpu and slots can bump it's hp up without crippling it such as with the scout
Shutter Fly Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 26	Posted - 2012.10.02 06:05:00 - [78] - Quote STB Vermaak Doe wrote: The assault's increased pg/cpu and slots can bump it's hp up without crippling it such as with the scout As I already stated, the scout doesn't need to significantly buff shielding much over ~250HP. The recharge rate compensates for that, along with recharge intervals. An assault suit's HP can be whittled down with frequent, smaller bursts, that is much more difficult to do to a scout. At longer ranges, an assault can find cover for longer periods, allowing them to heal off the larger amounts of damage dealt in extended mid-range combat. This kind of cover can't be utilized in CQC. This makes a scout excel in CQC with good hit and run tactics which are perpetuated by the otherwise wasted regenerating shields. How else is a scout to make use of their excellent shield recharge times if they can't escape gunfire long enough to take advantage of them?
SILENTSAM 69 Pro Hic Immortalis RISE of LEGION 421	Posted - 2012.10.02 06:18:00 - [79] - Quote Please CCP go back and fix this strafe nerf. It feels as if my merc is stiff now and can not twist at the waist at all. It just feels wrong.
Encharrion L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 104	Posted - 2012.10.02 06:31:00 - [80] - Quote I haven't noticed ANY reduction in assault suit strafing speed. I think it seems slower because the aiming controls have clearly been improved, and hit detection appears to be fixed. I think that because everyone is getting hit more, it feels like they aren't going fast enough to get hit less. The scout suit however, is now a piece of ****. It has half the health of the assault, and now moves just barely more than the assault. Along with hit detection being fixed, and the aiming improved, the scout suit can't fill a hit and run role at all.

Rin Tsubaki Scorpio Mortis 6	Posted - 2012.10.02 08:23:00 - [81] - Quote scout suits are usless on this build they really are you cant move even have as fast and its to easy for people to keep there guns on you not only the fact that every round hits you now so yeah this build made scounts useless as for sniping when you are in a hard to get place and 3 guys can sneak up on you and kill you befor you even notice they are there yeah thats when snipers are useless so anything that dosnt use a HMG lazer or assault rifle is useless and anything useing a scout suite is just as useless i miss the old build atleast then i didnt die 24 times per match simply from spawning and haveing 3 guys kill me befor i can even react
Laurent Cazaderon Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 1155	Posted - 2012.10.02 08:45:00 - [82] - Quote last build strafe speed was a decent balance. I can't understand why they changed it.
Rasatsu Much Crying Old Experts 437	Posted - 2012.10.02 08:49:00 - [83] - Quote Let's go back to the first build, where assault suits were dancing around and around and around and around for minutes at a time trying to get in enough hits to kill.
fenrir storm Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 314	Posted - 2012.10.02 09:27:00 - [84] - Quote Mosley Harmless wrote: They need to stop nerfing things because it's taking all the fun out of the game. You're wearing a state of the art battlesuit, but it feels like all the joints are rusted while you're trudging through mud. If they keep nerfing movement at this rate this is going to turn into a tower defence game. There is no fun in the eve universe or so I have been repeatedly told, it's serious stuff
fenrir storm Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 314	Posted - 2012.10.02 09:28:00 - [85] - Quote Rin Tsubaki wrote: scout suits are usless on this build they really are you cant move even have as fast and its to easy for people to keep there guns on you not only the fact that every round hits you now so yeah this build made scounts useless as for sniping when you are in a hard to get place and 3 guys can sneak up on you and kill you befor you even notice they are there yeah thats when snipers are useless so anything that dosnt use a HMG lazer or assault rifle is useless and anything useing a scout suite is just as useless i miss the old build atleast then i didnt die 24 times per match simply from spawning and haveing 3 guys kill me befor i can even react Oh no I lost my I win button , they were designed to recon and snipe not act as if they were a ballerina with a gun
KEROSIINI-TERO Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 248	Posted - 2012.10.02 09:53:00 - [86] - Quote After the rest of the first night's matches, I might approve the current strafing speed. Seems that now gotta change the microtactitc a bit, for example keep cover closer and be more careful on open ground engagement. Scouts are still usable. And, by the way, they we're (at least originally) intended to be formidable CQB opponents: "Armed with a shotgun or module-enhanced nova knife, the Scout is lethal at close-range." http://www.dust514.com/community/blog/2012/07/dropsuit-dev-blog-part-two/
STB-stlcarlos989 EV Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 936	Posted - 2012.10.02 10:17:00 - [87] - Quote Whenever people complained that dust was all about time played or using protosuits and it had no skill I always laughed. I could kill a proto assault using militia assault gear because I could easily out strafe and out aim the bad players. Now however any semblance of skill is gone. If I start shooting at you first I win, If I have more defense than you I win If I have a higher level AR I win. Dust gun games is essentially now CoD with more health and no auto aim. My interest in Dust 514 Has severely diminished and feel if CCP doesn't change things a majority of the highly skilled players will leave. So unless things change soon I will have to say good bye to New Eden.
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.10.02 10:43:00 - [88] - Quote CCP, just look at the players who are pissed. We're not the ones with 30 kills total. We're the ones who've played this game quite heavily over the last few months. Carlos is spot on. Remove skilled combat = remove skilled players. Allow the mechanics to support high tier play, and let the scrubs fight each other and PvE. Do not remove skilled combat.
Rin Tsubaki Scorpio Mortis 6	Posted - 2012.10.02 10:56:00 - [89] - Quote fenrir storm wrote: Rin Tsubaki wrote: scout suits are usless on this build they really are you cant move even have as fast and its to easy for people to keep there guns on you not only the fact that every round hits you now so yeah this build made scounts useless as for sniping when you are in a hard to get place and 3 guys can sneak up on you and kill you befor you even notice they are there yeah thats when snipers are useless so anything that dosnt use a HMG lazer or assault rifle is useless and anything useing a scout suite is just as useless i miss the old build atleast then i didnt die 24 times per match simply from spawning and haveing 3 guys kill me befor i can even react Oh no I lost my I win button , they were designed to recon and snipe not act as if they were a ballerina with a gun no thats not what im saying im saying that all they made it so scouts are to slow to do the hit and fade also we cant make people losse a lock if someone is shooting you you cant do anything but die scouts have less hp and less shields then the last build so we cant survives a stand up fight and we are to slow to do what a scout is suposed to and that is out run and hide from you others if they are going to make us easyer to kill by giving us less hp then make us faster if they are going to make us slower then hive us better shields and armor dont make us slower and give us less hp and shields that is basicly making a scout suit awalking coffin to slow to out menuver you to low armored to survive a stand up fight the only option left is to no longer use scout suits and switch to assault suits so basicly they should fix the scout suits or remove them totaly and remberse me my isk and my sp i put into them
Crimson MoonV Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 658	Posted - 2012.10.02 11:01:00 - [90] - Quote Tony Calif wrote: CCP, just look at the players who are pissed. We're not the ones with 30 kills total. We're the ones who've played this game quite heavily over the last few months. Carlos is spot on. Remove skilled combat = remove skilled players. Allow the mechanics to support high tier play, and let the scrubs fight each other and PvE. Do not remove skilled combat. The wants of low sec shouldn't effect the needs of null sec. Imagine this build played competitively by good players. It would be a boring campfest/vehicle spam.



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