DUST Search - Strafe Speed nerfed!?

STB Vermaak Doe wrote:

Shutter Fly wrote:

Tony Calif wrote:

Scouts SHOULD hit and run. Now they have to hit, throw 3 Thukkers (SOONtm) and hope somehow they survived. I hate shotgun scouts. Previously you've been nasty as hell running SMG scout. Now I can just track you far too easily. It's sad. Scouts speed was their only hope.
It was pretty important for assault too :(

This.

I was going to try and see how this build progressed before forming any opinions about it, but based off of what I've played so far, I've already got a bad feeling about it.

I've mentioned this problem to others in-game, mostly in the context of scout suits. I usually get the same response, "scout suits are for stealth now, as they should be, spec into signature dampeners and stop whining." The problem is, what am I supposed to do after I sneak up to someone? With strafe speed nerfed, I get one stealthy kill with my shotgun before I'm inevitably shredded by an AR. I no longer have any viable way to defend myself against an attack by an assault AR. I could take cover, but then what? I would just be delaying my certain doom. If I was able to strafe at a rate that was halfway consistent with my forward movement, I would at least have a chance at maneuvering long enough for a good shot. In the current state, I'm lucky to go even, I don't get a chance to fight because I'm consistently dead before I can get behind cover. I can't fight because my CQC suit, with a CQC weapon, with modules fitted for CQC, is inferior in CQC...to a weapon that can kill me from completely out of my maximum effective range.

How is the scout a cqc suit? That explains why it started with sniper rifle skills Roll

. What part about stealth has to do with a shotgun, you've always had a knife/option for a knife so use it


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Shutter Fly Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 26	Posted - 2012.10.02 04:32:00 - [1] - Quote Tony Calif wrote: Scouts SHOULD hit and run. Now they have to hit, throw 3 Thukkers (SOONtm) and hope somehow they survived. I hate shotgun scouts. Previously you've been nasty as hell running SMG scout. Now I can just track you far too easily. It's sad. Scouts speed was their only hope. It was pretty important for assault too :( This. I was going to try and see how this build progressed before forming any opinions about it, but based off of what I've played so far, I've already got a bad feeling about it. I've mentioned this problem to others in-game, mostly in the context of scout suits. I usually get the same response, "scout suits are for stealth now, as they should be, spec into signature dampeners and stop whining." The problem is, what am I supposed to do after I sneak up to someone? With strafe speed nerfed, I get one stealthy kill with my shotgun before I'm inevitably shredded by an AR. I no longer have any viable way to defend myself against an attack by an assault AR. I could take cover, but then what? I would just be delaying my certain doom. If I was able to strafe at a rate that was halfway consistent with my forward movement, I would at least have a chance at maneuvering long enough for a good shot. In the current state, I'm lucky to go even, I don't get a chance to fight because I'm consistently dead before I can get behind cover. I can't fight because my CQC suit, with a CQC weapon, with modules fitted for CQC, is inferior in CQC...to a weapon that can kill me from completely out of my maximum effective range.
Shutter Fly Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 26	Posted - 2012.10.02 04:51:00 - [2] - Quote STB Vermaak Doe wrote: Shutter Fly wrote: Tony Calif wrote: Scouts SHOULD hit and run. Now they have to hit, throw 3 Thukkers (SOONtm) and hope somehow they survived. I hate shotgun scouts. Previously you've been nasty as hell running SMG scout. Now I can just track you far too easily. It's sad. Scouts speed was their only hope. It was pretty important for assault too :( This. I was going to try and see how this build progressed before forming any opinions about it, but based off of what I've played so far, I've already got a bad feeling about it. I've mentioned this problem to others in-game, mostly in the context of scout suits. I usually get the same response, "scout suits are for stealth now, as they should be, spec into signature dampeners and stop whining." The problem is, what am I supposed to do after I sneak up to someone? With strafe speed nerfed, I get one stealthy kill with my shotgun before I'm inevitably shredded by an AR. I no longer have any viable way to defend myself against an attack by an assault AR. I could take cover, but then what? I would just be delaying my certain doom. If I was able to strafe at a rate that was halfway consistent with my forward movement, I would at least have a chance at maneuvering long enough for a good shot. In the current state, I'm lucky to go even, I don't get a chance to fight because I'm consistently dead before I can get behind cover. I can't fight because my CQC suit, with a CQC weapon, with modules fitted for CQC, is inferior in CQC...to a weapon that can kill me from completely out of my maximum effective range. How is the scout a cqc suit? That explains why it started with sniper rifle skills. What part about stealth has to do with a shotgun, you've always had a knife/option for a knife so use it The scout suit makes a great CQC suit. Its balance towards fast recharging shields screams CQC, allowing it to take damage and quickly regain health. Other suits take time to regain health, which is better for longer range confrontations where it is easier to find consistent cover for longer regeneration times. This is not useful for a sniper, who has plenty of time to take cover and regain as much HP as necessary. The scouts stealth works both ways, allowing CQC players to get close and snipers to stay hidden. The shotgun is a one shot kill weapon for CQC. This makes it a very viable option when sneaking up to an enemy, although it's just used as an example in this case, due to it being the weapon I use most regularly. The knife (in this build at least) is much too situational to be used as a consistent stealth wepon, due to it being impossible to charge while running, meaning it rarely can be used on an opponent that is moving.
Shutter Fly Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 26	Posted - 2012.10.02 05:01:00 - [3] - Quote Crimson Moon V wrote: Khortez D wrote: i believe it'll get better, after all it's a beta, right now we aren't even talking to CCP anymore, its more like the player base That beta **** doesn't fly anymore. Its 3 years later and the game is still falling apart. I can only imagine the pressure sony is putting on ccp right now. I still see that this can get better, I can even see the game being successful if this isn't changed. Even though we feel that the game should be this way, I'm confident CCP will do what they feel is in line with what they want it to be. We've already seen that they were on the right track in the last build, there were just a few kinks (lag/hit detection) that got in the way. They need to feel the different options out before they finalize it. Hopefully, if the opinions expressed in this thread persist, CCP will see it the way we do.
Shutter Fly Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 26	Posted - 2012.10.02 05:14:00 - [4] - Quote STB Vermaak Doe wrote: The point of being stealthy is to not give up your position which is your fault when using a shotgun and you deserve whatever you get from playing haphazardly, also stealth isn't meant to be rushed which means we can do without a sprinting knife. Even though it is the fastest regenerator, it doesn't have the staying power of ant other suit which makes it one of the worst choices for CQB. Like I said, I just used the shotgun as an example, the same is true with any weapon you might try to sneak up with. The shotgun is just good for guaranteeing a kill before the enemy knows you are there. A sprinting knife is very important whether you are rushing or not, if you can't get close enough to stab them, then you can't kill them. You can't be stealthy if you are constantly having to catch back up to them every time they happen to move. You need to wait for the right moment, then swiftly move in and make the kill(s) before you are noticed. This doesn't work if you are awkwardly walking up as your knife charges. Staying power is only one aspect of CQC, when you are in a tight situation it is very helpful to be able to keep restoring shields with very little delay when moving from enemy to enemy. A sniper or stealth soldier has no use for this, as they both have bursts of damage that are greatly spread out. Not to say the scout isn't well suited for those roles, those just aren't the only ones it is well suited for.
Shutter Fly Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 26	Posted - 2012.10.02 05:30:00 - [5] - Quote STB Vermaak Doe wrote: Any stealth kill shouldn't be a simple handout, you should have to work and plan to get that kill. If we do an equal amount of damage to each other until one of us dies with you in a scout suit and me in an assault, I've won the CQC battle. Even though you heal fast, you're working with an easy to crush glass tank. I didn't say a stealth kill should be a handout, I just said it should't be overly awkward and tedious. Especially with a weapon that doesn't seemingly have any other purpose. Yes, if an assault suit and scout suit do equal amounts of instantaneous damage to each other, then the scout should be in worse trouble. But if that damage is over a 10s period in a CQC area, supposedly with some amount of cover (I'm not saying a scout should win any battle in an open field), they should at least end evenly. As the scout has already recovered a decent portion of his shields, while the assault hasn't. I'm not saying the scout is the ultimate best option for CQC, I'm saying it is well suited for it when the situation is correct. In this build however, its capabilities to utilize those benefits is greatly hindered with the reduction in strafing speed.
Shutter Fly Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 26	Posted - 2012.10.02 05:42:00 - [6] - Quote STB Vermaak Doe wrote: A full shield rep on a scout only means two scrambler shots or three to 4 ar shoots until your already weakened armour is gone aswell Yes. But the Assault is already down that ~200-300HP as well in the hypothetical situation, and unlike the scout, is still down ~200HP. Meaning that very situation does in fact put them on equal footing. This also means the the scout needs to spend progressively less time out of cover to whittle the Assault's HP down. The Assault's best option in this situation is to fall back, meaning the Assault must take the situation out of CQC, where the opponent seemingly has an advantage.
Shutter Fly Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 26	Posted - 2012.10.02 06:05:00 - [7] - Quote STB Vermaak Doe wrote: The assault's increased pg/cpu and slots can bump it's hp up without crippling it such as with the scout As I already stated, the scout doesn't need to significantly buff shielding much over ~250HP. The recharge rate compensates for that, along with recharge intervals. An assault suit's HP can be whittled down with frequent, smaller bursts, that is much more difficult to do to a scout. At longer ranges, an assault can find cover for longer periods, allowing them to heal off the larger amounts of damage dealt in extended mid-range combat. This kind of cover can't be utilized in CQC. This makes a scout excel in CQC with good hit and run tactics which are perpetuated by the otherwise wasted regenerating shields. How else is a scout to make use of their excellent shield recharge times if they can't escape gunfire long enough to take advantage of them?