Oh look it has attracted another one.

"Oh not another KDR thread..." Sorry but I just had to.

KDR is the most important stat, thats a fact.

In Skirmish we have a nice little bar that shows how much shield and armor both of the teams' MCC have left. On the bottom you can se available clone reserves, in other words how many clones have a team lost so far during this battle. I implore you to pay attention at the end of games and see the similarities between getting owned and, well, getting owned. I played for 4-5 hours yesterday and had a lot of Skirmish games for once and in all the battles the winning team also had the most kills. It also seemed that the more kills the winning team got, relative to the loosing team, the "bigger" the win was. (By bigger I mean you win the game with lots of armor or even shields left on your MCC).

I don't think that this applies to every single game, there will be exceptions. Like when the loosing team is 90% snipers hanging on top of hills and such and couldn't care less about the objective.

There are also some exceptions on the personal level:
- If your one of those "hang as far away as possible from harms way" kind of snipers and couldn't really care less about the outcome of the battle. Your personal KDR doesn't really say much about anything else than perhaps your aim.
- Its a little dodgy perhaps since the tanks just got nerfed a lot, but at least pre-nerf tanking and getting a KDR of 20 isn't very impressive.
- Dedicated pilots and I'm sure there's many more good examples.

So lets take all the kittens out of the equation and your left with the objective oriented "wanna win at all cost" kind of players. Do you really think a well organised team of good players stand a chance against a team of elite killers? Do you really see yourself winning when your boys keep getting dropped over and over again?

Don't think that your a great contributor to the win when you hav 0.3 KDR just because you wave a repair gun occationally. And don't think you're the only one picking people up just because you have a logi suit, I and many more carry it with us on our Scout suits even.

And don't get me wrong, I don't mean that your a scrub if you don't have a 3 KDR. As long as its at least "1", then no one is entitled to smack talk in my opinion, you've held your own. But please, pretty please, with sugar on top, don't act like KDR is some BS stat only used by tryhards to brag about their epic skills. This is a shooter, being good at shooting people is very important....

[I make this post to try and get some people to work more on their gun game. I had a 0.62 KDR in MAG before I decided to "get gud" and I got myself up to an average between 2 and 3 with some effort and training. I was still the same O-holder (team player) as I always was, just better at the killing part aswell. You can always be both.]

Babar is right though... Just sayin'

KDR IS THE DECIDING FACTOR OF THE QUALITY OF THE PLAYER NO EXEPTIONS [<______>]

It's pointless .. really .. KDR is too general as a statistic to be relevant for evaluating a players abilities. As the OP already said:
There are exceptions
to his statement which makes the whole statement subjective and irrelevant. It's a single number that compares the OVERALL number of deaths to the OVERALL number of kills. It does not seperate between weapons, skill levels, compared latencies etc. It just generalises way too much to have an impact.

Let's have an example: My Girlfriend plays Dust with me. Usually we play together and she's riding the gunner on my LAV having an average of 6/1 and 12/1 at the end of the game. On the other hand she's not the best one at medium to close range gunfighting. Now what does her KDR say?

I bet you say: Nothing at all cause gunners don't count .. or snipers ... or pilots ... or Devs ... or Lampposts

How many people are counted into the relevant amount of examples then ?

Although some of your points are valid and your overall argument can be applied to every FPS game out there, you must realize that you represent a small percentage of those that play this game. There are others who play the game who aren't affected by the KDR aspect of the game. There are others still who may not care about KDR but care about winning. And there are others even still that grief others and neither care about KDR or winning altogether.

Find like minded folks to play with and, what it really comes down to, have fun playing a game meant for the entertainment value.

Seran, the thing in shooters is that the type of obstacles is what defines the game. In a team game, or even the earliest versions of Skirmish, the obstacle was "Destroy point X to advance to next level". These type of obstacles make it so that KDR means less as long as you eventually destroy the points.

Dust right now is a KDR game. Basically, kill everything around an objective to control the objective.

Only on first sight. There are alternatives to clashing two blobs. In my sight it's a mere coincidence that people who learned to effectively use their weapons (coming down as a +1 KDR) also know how to have an impact on the battlefield.

Your point is right though on behalf of linear and parallel capturing of objectives. Right now it's mostly zerging from one objective to another without the least intent on actual defense. I know .. offense is the best defense, but player's skill extend beyond simple pointrushing. It contains (even in gunfight only):

- movement anticipation
- behaviour anticipation
- name spotting and adaption
- class/role spotting
- timing
- luck

Those are the skills that boil down on KDR. But what about those that spent the ++bertank build harassing tanks with Swarm Launchers to keep them from smashing their team and yet just getting killed all the time?
Where does team effort come into play here? Do we get 0.5 kills for assists? 0.1 kills if the killer was repaired? Oh and what about the sniper that killed the tank driver before he got into his tank? He just get's one .. even though he has the same effect to keep the tank ot of the fight than the other tank driver that kills 3 people in the tank with the same effort.

I like your input sir!

This little thing called fun is what its all about. And yes, people have different oppinions on that aswell. In my puny little head competitive online gaming is a lazy mans sport, I'd just aswell play a basketball game if they could be bothered to make a good one. And as it is with all sports worth playing, playing in itself should be fun enough. Working your kitten off and getting that last second win will however grant me much more fun than sitting on a hilltop with a sniper rifle taking pot shots at the occational target...

I hope and believe there are many more like myself which finds the hard pressed games with constant action and pressure on the objectives the most enjoyable, not the ones were we do some line-dancing in the middle off the road just to pass the time...

What's a KDR? and how do I get one??

*gathers troll sweat to sell it to some old chinese guy on the market* Gosh! That troll sweat brings me 10 gold dublones a vial.
Oh and look.. there are shards of contradictive argumentation all over the place! I'm RIICH!!

Well I'm glad you asked sir. You kill as many people as you can without dying yourself then you receive your own personal KDR.

You are wrong. KDR is meaningless. What matters (or what should matter, although the game mechanics don't support the currently) is winning the match. You can win a match (and yes, that includes Ambush) without having the highest KDR players on your side. If everyone on one team works together and all get a similar number of kills, you can still win the round even when some players of the opposing team score much more kills.

Example: I was in an Ambush map, the best on our team had 6/0, the best on the other team had 19/3. I was eighth and had 6/7. We won.

Sorry OP but you are wrong. I just played a game last night in which my team won. I was top player @ 8/4 on my team, the opposing team had at least 6 players with 11+ kills & we still won by a large margin. Simply because we managed to capture & most importantly defend, more objectives for a longer period of time. Hence we won & the team full of killers lost. At least half my team went negative, but they were playing for the win not the kills.

Having a good KDR in certain scenarios is a good sign of a good player, the only problem is that it is an inaccurate means of measurement in general. Its so easy to pad your KDR and maintain it while still being useless to your team, but for those who can do there job, take the objective, and outright kill anyone who gets in there way I would say that is a good player. I say both sides are correct KDR does matter its just not the only thing that matters.

Babar is right though... Just sayin'

So are you trying to make the statement that the only thing any one should ever strive for in this game is kdr?

We may as well pull the logistics classes and vehicles then.

We should also, while were at it, dump objective play as well.

In fact why dont we dump the eve connection all together.

In fact why dont we just make a CoD clone.

No im sorry with the variety of game play in this game gunplay all though an important factor is not the only thing the maters.

Stop trying to dumb this game down to something its not.

[...] Logis should have a KDRR. A Kill/Death/Revive ratio. Who cares if he dies 4 times if he revives 12 people on your squad. That's a KDRR of 3:1, and he is more beneficial to your team than a guy who has a 2.5:1 KDR who just shoots stuff.

So full of fail, that original post.

OK, those 'hang back and kill other people while not caring about the battle' snipers you mentioned... how is it 'they don't count' with KDR if they're killing 7+ people per game with 0 or 1 deaths? I thought you said this was all about killing the other team more efficiently... is that not the case with the sniper?

Furthermore, I suggest we take this argument and stretch it to its logical extreme. Let's just ban everyone who has a KDR of less than 1. What would happen?

Well... in a few short ban-cycles, there would be no-one left in the game. Why?

Because it's a sliding scale, that's why. If you got rid of all the 'crappy' players with less than 1 KDR, once people start gaming again, there will be even more players with less than 1.0. You can't have a guy with 2 or higher positive KDR without at least 2 guys with negative KDR, because that first guy had to be more efficient than others.

AKA: KDR is a ******** way to measure player skill.

---

Still, the way I see it... Scouts and Heavies and Assaults exist to kill people, through different methods. While it's easy TO kill as Logi, that's not it's role.

Logis should have a KDRR. A Kill/Death/Revive ratio. Who cares if he dies 4 times if he revives 12 people on your squad. That's a KDRR of 3:1, and he is more beneficial to your team than a guy who has a 2.5:1 KDR who just shoots stuff.

KDR aka Killboard wh*res


its got balls all to do with how good your KDR is.
Its about how you came about that KDR did you spawn camp it or do something worth while in battles

Really ? We're talking about K.D.R in a respawn game ?? It's respawn..

I smell a socom vet

Sorry OP but you are wrong. I just played a game last night in which my team won. I was top player @ 8/4 on my team, the opposing team had at least 6 players with 11+ kills & we still won by a large margin. Simply because we managed to capture & most importantly defend, more objectives for a longer period of time. Hence we won & the team full of killers lost. At least half my team went negative, but they were playing for the win not the kills.

I agreed with everything you said, except this.
As much as people WANT this game to have a deeper strategy, etc. etc. etc. the main objective will always be to shoot your enemy as much as you can, throw in as many capture objectives as you want, support classes, limited resources, a player controlled market, blah blah blah, but shooting people in the face will always be the main objective of this game.

I was writing a lengthy piece of intelligent troll food that regurgitates the same thing everyone already knows and then i just said "F it", deleted it, and posted this.

That is exactly what I posted.

The game right now is all about KDR, that's how you compensate losing a lot of ISK. The more you kill, the more ISK you gain after a game.

I agree with you Babar. The only people who think ISK doesn't matter wont make it very far in null IMO.

It's pointless .. really .. KDR is too general as a statistic to be relevant for evaluating a players abilities. As the OP already said:
There are exceptions
to his statement which makes the whole statement subjective and irrelevant. It's a single number that compares the OVERALL number of deaths to the OVERALL number of kills. It does not seperate between weapons, skill levels, compared latencies etc. It just generalises way too much to have an impact.

Let's have an example: My Girlfriend plays Dust with me. Usually we play together and she's riding the gunner on my LAV having an average of 6/1 and 12/1 at the end of the game. On the other hand she's not the best one at medium to close range gunfighting. Now what does her KDR say?

I bet you say: Nothing at all cause gunners don't count .. or snipers ... or pilots ... or Devs ... or Lampposts

How many people are counted into the relevant amount of examples then ?

I have a terrible KDR, so I won't even mention it. I do know that it's getting better, or I'm just sucking less but, KDR to me it isn't all that important when it comes down to the objective at hand. Winning the objective is my goal. Killed me ten times? Yay for you, here is a cookie and a card, but I'm still on the winning side.

tl;dr? qq?

One reason that I get so many kills it's because I stick within groups of squad. I take out Tanks, dropships with my Forge Gun. I replenish team's ammo by dropping nanohives.

In MAG, there's an award ribbon after a game. And the MVP goes to the person who does more teamplay, taking the objectives, killing players within in the objective. The points get doubled for players following the objectives. In MAG, he can be just a medic or engineer and he can be MVP without any kills versus a person who just doing on his own farming kills on the redline. And they get mad because a person who has no kills get MVP versus a person who has a lot of kills with less death.

In MAG, the game could end under 5 minutes or less without the effort of teamplay. That's how quick it is. The engineers made it a difference in the battlefield, they keep the bunkers fixed, the mortar batteries, the AAA.

You know why there's a thread that "Dust should be like MAG"? It's because of the experience we get in there, there's a teamplay, and it's a lot more fun than harvesting kills. Anyone can be as much as important than KDR. I was a medic in MAG, it was fun reviving my teammates and getting double points for reviving. At the end of the game, you get tons of XP for just doing that.

In Dust, you can do all of these things but not rewarding enough, because the game focuses on KDR. The more kills, the more ISK and SP. While I was a pilot of a dropship the entire game and just getting assist, but not getting a lot of ISK at the end of a game, that was not cool. Tanks were better because you can be a gunner and the driver.

Fixed.

I think it was fine the way it was. You can't earn ISK if you don't kill to earn your wins.