ANyone who rolls a scout next build is going to have ahard time for all manner of reasons. you wait and see.

The scout also "naturally" has a speed advantage, but of course people complain about everything under the sun.

Lolwut? So let me get this straight, assault is perfectly fine but a heavy is underpowered because it can't carry a H and L weapon at the same time. So not only do you want them to have more HP then anyone but you also want to give them more weapons.... Oh and for the record scouts are supposed to be fast because lets face it they are paper thin and will be even weaker once hit detection gets fixed.

No one is complaining, as a beta tester I am doing my job of pointing out what I believe to be a balancing issue, which is exactly what the DEVs are expecting from us. Don't tell me things any person with an IQ over 50 would know, that being scouts are faster than the rest. But it is "stupid" not to acknowledge scouts shouldn't have any advantage in close quarters but to use their speed to run away and gain distance on the rest.

... You make no sense. So as a scout I should have absolutly zero advantage in close quarters. Even though I'm lighter, faster, and more then likely wielding a scatter gun, or sub machine gun? Right. That makes no sense. I'm already at the biggest disadvantage of any other dropsuits out there. My dropsuit naturally has lower PG (Power Grid) and CPU (Central Processing Unit) output which means I carry less, and I have less shielding then both assault and logistical class variants while on par with 'heavy' class dropsuits in shiled strength. Oh and my armor plating is pitiful. So yeah it only seems natural that people complain about my one advantage.. Speed. Mmhhmm. Makes perfect sense. Sense the sarcasm? Ha-ha.

Also this is not the original poster acknowlegding or letting the developers know anything. He's complaining. If he wanted to properly document his complaints there are two different sub categories to which label your protests and worries. No this is just complaining on their part. The only reason people complain about the scout is due to the lag or latency, and the hit boxes which were slightly undersized. More often then not I garuntee it comes down to people complaining and looking for excuses.

This is just hilarious though. People make me laugh. Woohoo! Wait, wait.. Let me get my monacle.

Cool.
EXCEPT.
You are NOT! supposed to be a CQC monster to be feared in a SCOUT suit thats the HEAVYs job!!
The scout is supposed to be a capture point, dropuplink and kill fast monster from sniper perch to sniper perch.

Cool.
EXCEPT.
You are NOT! supposed to be a CQC monster to be feared in a SCOUT suit thats the HEAVYs job!!
The scout is supposed to be a capture point, dropuplink and kill fast monster from sniper perch to sniper perch.

I never said I want them to have more HP please read thoroughly before you respond. I was suggesting something else to make up for the hp nerf done to them. And what's wrong with heavies carrying a heavy and a light weapons if scouts can carry a shotgun and thukker grenades at the same time.

Heavies have NO place in CQC whatsoever...they are supposed to be good at mid ranges against multiple opponents (HMG) or against vehicles. CQC needs fast characters that can outmaneuver the opponent. A heavy can't even turn fast enough to track a Scout circling around him, and that's the way it should be.

Ahhhh, are you serious. The heavy can already use all weapons, just not together. What you are saying is alter the heavy so it is stronger; then on top of a hmg or FG lets give him an assault rifle so he w can kill everything.... yeah that isnt OP at all.

You cant justify that in any sense, then now you have a heavy AV and AP loadout. Then you make SL all but useless, as who will be stuck using a SL AND SMG if you can use a FG and AR.

So yeah before you tell Ad Ski to think, how about you think first. CCP has made it so no person has two main weapons to allow for all around purposes

Yes, yes! of course!
In CQC the light, fast and manuverable LAV needs to win out over the slower and heavier HAV when going nose to nose.
Yep! that makes perfect sense!!

Yes, yes! of course!
In CQC the light, fast and manuverable LAV needs to win out over the slower and heavier HAV when going nose to nose.
Yep! that makes perfect sense!!

Uhm... yeah. That's the whole idea. You get in close and use your speed to keep the guy from getting a bead on you.

Yeah!!
That makes perfect sense!

Real life from my City:
Seven guys with AK 74s and in light police tactical gear went up against seven military police in full COMBAT tactical gear and using Squad Assault Heavy Weapons.


Guess who died??

Here is what this thread taught me today. That people have a very outdated sense of roles and what they are. Nowhere does it say that I have to play the scout as a sniper, or some off-beat pansy who drops droplinks, and hides behind corners. It's not my fault you suck at aiming, or are ill equiped to fight against someone in close quarter combat. I bet some of you would tell me a woman's place is in the kitchen and at home being a mother and making more children. Seriously some of you have some out moded sense of direction. I do fine a spec-ops scout and I love knowing how angry you all get over it. Makes me laugh aloud. I bet someone in a tank cried once when they realized they got bombed by a scout with a swarm launcher. Yup. Let me tell ya'.

I can play any role I want so long as I the player can adapt to the dropsuit, and make said dropsuit do as I need it to. If I want to turn my heavy into an assault monster I will. If I want my assault to be a shield tanking heavy I can (minus the HMG or forge gun). If I want my logistics to be all anti-vehicle I certainly will. The list goes on. Some of you need to realize we're in the modern age. It's funny because, in real life LAV's can be armed with anti-tank weaponry and rip apart tanks. Go figure. If the passanger of an LAV can use weapons though get a heavy in an LAV armed with a forge gun or swarm launcher and rip through them all day.

This thread? Pointless.

The only thing good from this thread is the recognition that the 'heavy' still needs minor balancing and tweeks; and that the HMG needs something more then it does already. I do not play as a 'heavy', but heavies are my friends. They are like can openers. They open up vehicles and get all of the attention while I steal objectives, and take CRU's (Clone Reanimation Unit).

Seriously though in the end it comes down to the "player" being able to adapt, and overcome situations or obstacles. On the battlefield or otherwise. If you want to play the game a certain way that you find fun, but is not suited to your style then you have a problem. Overcome and adapt.

Yeah!!
That makes perfect sense!

Real life from my City:
Seven guys with AK 74s and in light police tactical gear went up against seven military police in full COMBAT tactical gear and using Squad Assault Heavy Weapons.


Guess who died??

First, there are so many variables that come into play in combat situations like this that you can't make the call on gear alone. Luck, positioning, tactics, and general combat experience are major players in armed conflicts.

Second, you're not comparing scouts with augmented agility and speed to juggernauts that are slower and tougher than average here; you're comparing two forces of relatively the same mobility, except one side has more armor and firepower. This is like comparing militia gear Assaults with sprint mods to Standard/Type 2 Assault with armor mods. One side simply has better equipment.

A better comparison might be between a heavy infantryman (plate mail) with a halberd or poleaxe versus a lightly armored infantryman (leather armor) with a short-sword or a dagger. Both of these men are kitted out for in-the-field combat, unlike your men in light police armor, while fulfilling different roles. If the heavy infantryman can keep his opponent at a distance, then he has the distinct advantage of being out of his adversaries reach while wielding a potentially devastating weapon, but if the light infantryman closes the gap using his superior speed then suddenly the halberd is not nearly as effective (as the light infantryman is within the swing arc of the blade) and he now has the advantage, as he is armed for hand-to-hand combat while the heavy infantryman is not.

rework the example factoring the hmg

So it should be the same way in scouts vs heavies

First, there are so many variables that come into play in combat situations like this that you can't make the call on gear alone. Luck, positioning, tactics, and general combat experience are major players in armed conflicts.

Second, you're not comparing scouts with augmented agility and speed to juggernauts that are slower and tougher than average here; you're comparing two forces of relatively the same mobility, except one side has more armor and firepower. This is like comparing militia gear Assaults with sprint mods to Standard/Type 2 Assault with armor mods. One side simply has better equipment.

A better comparison might be between a heavy infantryman (plate mail) with a halberd or poleaxe versus a lightly armored infantryman (leather armor) with a short-sword or a dagger. Both of these men are kitted out for in-the-field combat, unlike your men in light police armor, while fulfilling different roles. If the heavy infantryman can keep his opponent at a distance, then he has the distinct advantage of being out of his adversaries reach while wielding a potentially devastating weapon, but if the light infantryman closes the gap using his superior speed then suddenly the halberd is not nearly as effective (as the light infantryman is within the swing arc of the blade) and he now has the advantage, as he is armed for hand-to-hand combat while the heavy infantryman is not. Even if the heavy infantryman had a hand-to-hand weapon, such as a short-sword or dagger, you also have to remember than the light infantryman has the advantage in mobility, speed, and endurance. He is neither slowed down nor are his movements restricted in any way, unlike the heavy infantryman.

Ummm no.
The heavy infantryman just switches to a morningstar or bladed hammer and a few seconds later the light infantryman dies.
In fact when it was heavy infantry versus light it was the heavy won in CQC.

The only instances of light winning versus heavy was at a DISTANCE i.e. the French using bow and arrows to kill the heavy English infantry at a DISTANCE and NEVER in CQC.

Thats why I an AGAINST the heavy using an AR or a sniper rifle as it is better suited to heavy weapons for AV or NON-precise weapons AKA pray and spray in CQC like the HMG.

The Scout, logi and assault need be the only suits that can equip AR or sniper rifles as this provides definitive killing at distance roles for them and preserving the heavies role to be superior in CQC only.

thats not always the case ive read and seen many cases that a fast mobile unit and bleed out a slower heavy armored unit take knights versus samurai the samurai won in many fights quick strike and dodge or parry quick strike dodge or parry rinse and repeat.

on a second note scouts are fine as is and so is the heavies i belive the logi and assualt though need a slight armor and shield boost esp the logi

Here is what this thread taught me today. That people have a very outdated sense of roles and what they are. Nowhere does it say that I have to play the scout as a sniper, or some off-beat pansy who drops droplinks, and hides behind corners. It's not my fault you suck at aiming, or are ill equiped to fight against someone in close quarter combat. I bet some of you would tell me a woman's place is in the kitchen and at home being a mother and making more children. Seriously some of you have some out moded sense of direction. I do fine a spec-ops scout and I love knowing how angry you all get over it. Makes me laugh aloud. I bet someone in a tank cried once when they realized they got bombed by a scout with a swarm launcher. Yup. Let me tell ya'.

I can play any role I want so long as I the player can adapt to the dropsuit, and make said dropsuit do as I need it to. If I want to turn my heavy into an assault monster I will. If I want my assault to be a shield tanking heavy I can (minus the HMG or forge gun). If I want my logistics to be all anti-vehicle I certainly will. The list goes on. Some of you need to realize we're in the modern age. It's funny because, in real life LAV's can be armed with anti-tank weaponry and rip apart tanks. Go figure. If the passanger of an LAV can use weapons though get a heavy in an LAV armed with a forge gun or swarm launcher and rip through them all day.

This thread? Pointless.

The only thing good from this thread is the recognition that the 'heavy' still needs minor balancing and tweeks; and that the HMG needs something more then it does already. I do not play as a 'heavy', but heavies are my friends. They are like can openers. They open up vehicles and get all of the attention while I steal objectives, and take CRU's (Clone Reanimation Unit).

Seriously though in the end it comes down to the "player" being able to adapt, and overcome situations or obstacles. On the battlefield or otherwise. If you want to play the game a certain way that you find fun, but is not suited to your style then you have a problem. Overcome and adapt.

So yeah before you tell Ad Ski to think, how about you think first. CCP has made it so no person has two main weapons to allow for all around purposes

Ummm no.
The heavy infantryman just switches to a morningstar or bladed hammer and a few seconds later the light infantryman dies.
In fact when it was heavy infantry versus light it was the heavy won in CQC.

The only instances of light winning versus heavy was at a DISTANCE i.e. the French using bow and arrows to kill the heavy English infantry at a DISTANCE and NEVER in CQC.

Thats why I an AGAINST the heavy using an AR or a sniper rifle as it is better suited to heavy weapons for AV or NON-precise weapons AKA pray and spray in CQC like the HMG.

The Scout, logi and assault need be the only suits that can equip AR or sniper rifles as this provides definitive killing at distance roles for them and preserving the heavies role to be superior in CQC only.

Yeah!!
That makes perfect sense!

Real life from my City:
Seven guys with AK 74s and in light police tactical gear went up against seven military police in full COMBAT tactical gear and using Squad Assault Heavy Weapons.


Guess who died??

No.
Try holding a machete to parry as someone swings a ten pound hammer at you and the result will be shattered bone the same as when the hammer meets a concrete wall that by the way is much better than a human face at absorbing hammer blows.

They tried that with light trucks versus tanks in Irak at Basra and at the Highway of Death.
Guess who died??

The Game has a NONSENSE situation where a light suit can better withstand damage than a heavy suit.
The same NONSENSE as a motorcycle and a truck crashing head on and yet the truck explodes and the motorcycle is undamaged??

NONSENSE!!

Oh but the heavy has a slower turning speed?
NONSENSE!!

My small cat dozer and my very large cat dozer turn radius is the same speed.
Both are bulldozers except one is much larger than the other.

Both take the same amount of time to turn from the excavation to the waiting dump trucks.
The only variable is one of them can push a lot more dirt in a given direction.

Direct quote cut and paste from CCPs own mouth:

"The Heavy dropsuit is a second-generation solution designed to withstand concentrated small arms fire and protect the wearer from the concussive, thermal, and impact forces of low-grade explosives. Additionally, its power-assisted exoskeleton facilitates usage of the heaviest caliber personal weapons.
Every vital area of the wearer is protected by 25mm composite ceramic shell or high tensile steel plates, layered with impact absorbing, compressed carbon latticework. A secondary thermal dispersion membrane channels excess heat away from the point of contact, distributing it over a larger surface area and thereby lessening the potential damage. Superconductive veins of hybrid silver coat the outer layers and connect every piece of the armor to a grounding heat sink, dampening the harmful effects of direct fire electromagnetic weaponry.
Heavy dropsuits lack the mobility of lighter suits, but this trade-off results in a defensive system that defies standard infantry conventions. No other classification of personal armor can claim to be able to stand toe-to-toe with enemy vehicles and survive."

So why does it feel like rice paper coupled with lead boots?

@Tarn Adari.

When a minigun shoots there is NO EVADE there is only DIE, DIED and DYING.
And troops from long ago did not stupidly stand there as a pikeman killed them.

Thats what training was used for to teach what troops do what and the tactics to counter them so if they see a pikeman formation they have many minutes to prepare a counter of archers or spearmen or have the morningstars ready to use in an instant.
And heavy troops were feared by light troops for the very reason that heavy troops tended to kill the light troops and then enter the conquered Cities and enjoy the women.

And my examples of shooting are from where I am at where ex military that joined the Cartels are at war with the regular military.
So when I see a helicopter gunship split a truck with the bullet stream there is no evade there are only bodies.