DUST Search - KD does mean quite a bit.

Billi Gene wrote:

KingBabar wrote:

Its just that if you don't (at present) count:
- Useless snipers.
- Bad hit detection.
- OP Tanks.
- Pilots and logis.
- All the players out there that really don't care about win/objectives that would rather stay out of harms way than taking risks.

And if you count everytone as:
- Dedicated players.
- In a clan or organized team.
- Playing a corp battle.
- All are players with much SP and fanzypants gear.

In short - remove everything down to the core, no OP stuff, no amount of noobs to kill, both teams have plenty off whatever gear they want, plenty off skillpoints. Picture a Dust clan battle in 2 years time.

Who do you really think will win the battle? The clan with the good killers or the clan with supposedly " best teamwork"?

I'll put my bet on the best killers any day, all my considerable MAG and other FPS experience says so.

THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT KDR IS THE ONLY MEASSUREMENT OF A PLAYERS SKILL, ITS JUST THE MOST IMPORTANT. BUT DON'T THINK THAT A TEAM CAN "CO-ORDINATE" A VICTORY WHEN THE ENTIRE TEAM KEEPS DYING TO SUPERIOR SKILLED PLAYERS. GOOD LUCK WITH THAT...

considering the nature of this game's future:

If i throw a billion isk at an alliance, asking them to field their entire mercenary force at some little spec of rock in nulsec, and that the defending force may or may not know whats coming, then no... victory has nothing to do with kdr, victory in this case is about overwhelming numbers, used to smash all opposition, repeatedly... until said opposition decides its not worth it...

The problem is, is that you define victory in terms of a standard death match.

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fenrir storm Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 314	Posted - 2012.09.06 18:02:00 - [61] - Quote Billi Gene wrote: KingBabar wrote: Its just that if you don't (at present) count: - Useless snipers. - Bad hit detection. - OP Tanks. - Pilots and logis. - All the players out there that really don't care about win/objectives that would rather stay out of harms way than taking risks. And if you count everytone as: - Dedicated players. - In a clan or organized team. - Playing a corp battle. - All are players with much SP and fanzypants gear. In short - remove everything down to the core, no OP stuff, no amount of noobs to kill, both teams have plenty off whatever gear they want, plenty off skillpoints. Picture a Dust clan battle in 2 years time. Who do you really think will win the battle? The clan with the good killers or the clan with supposedly " best teamwork"? I'll put my bet on the best killers any day, all my considerable MAG and other FPS experience says so. THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT KDR IS THE ONLY MEASSUREMENT OF A PLAYERS SKILL, ITS JUST THE MOST IMPORTANT. BUT DON'T THINK THAT A TEAM CAN "CO-ORDINATE" A VICTORY WHEN THE ENTIRE TEAM KEEPS DYING TO SUPERIOR SKILLED PLAYERS. GOOD LUCK WITH THAT... considering the nature of this game's future: If i throw a billion isk at an alliance, asking them to field their entire mercenary force at some little spec of rock in nulsec, and that the defending force may or may not know whats coming, then no... victory has nothing to do with kdr, victory in this case is about overwhelming numbers, used to smash all opposition, repeatedly... until said opposition decides its not worth it... The problem is, is that you define victory in terms of a standard death match. Q F T thank you
Carilito Algintal Core Gallente Federation 345	Posted - 2012.09.06 18:19:00 - [62] - Quote Zekain Kade wrote: Your KD will determine if you're able to take an objective by being able to take out the defenders. Your KD will determine if you're able to Defend the objective from attackers. Your KD will determine if you're able to be an asset to the team. (being able to pull your own weight.) Sure, you can go logi, logies are good, they may not get a lot of kills. But they do help keep the team together. If you're a sniper that's neg bombing, then please just quit, and open up the spot to someone how may be a little more capable at killing the team. You're useless... There really is no nice way to say it. I run an assault Type II suit. I use either a gek, or a proto rifle, but I still use my milita gear if i don't feel like steam rolling the enemy team (which is quite often.). I'm able to mow down 15-20+ people a game, and only die 1-4 times most of the time. In-between those kills, I am capping OBJ's While the rest of you are respawning. I am always trying to cover every objective as much as possible. Why? because I have no faith in my team when I'm running solo. There are times where I will be overwhelmed, and the rest of my team is busy LOOKING THE OTHER WAY. So please, fore the love of all things ISK, try to not die ,and actually be an asset.. My team ends up losing so many skirmish games because they CAN'T defend the objective. Stat padding with a tank is a different story. The longer you spend in the tank, the worse you'll actually become when you go infantry. After reading the most I can drag out of this is I am awesome, dont be a sniper or HAV drive cause it manipulates stats. Hmmm any point to this thread beside stroking your own meat... I mean ego.
Sleepy Zan Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 2047	Posted - 2012.09.06 18:20:00 - [63] - Quote Billi Gene wrote: KingBabar wrote: Its just that if you don't (at present) count: - Useless snipers. - Bad hit detection. - OP Tanks. - Pilots and logis. - All the players out there that really don't care about win/objectives that would rather stay out of harms way than taking risks. And if you count everytone as: - Dedicated players. - In a clan or organized team. - Playing a corp battle. - All are players with much SP and fanzypants gear. In short - remove everything down to the core, no OP stuff, no amount of noobs to kill, both teams have plenty off whatever gear they want, plenty off skillpoints. Picture a Dust clan battle in 2 years time. Who do you really think will win the battle? The clan with the good killers or the clan with supposedly " best teamwork"? I'll put my bet on the best killers any day, all my considerable MAG and other FPS experience says so. THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT KDR IS THE ONLY MEASSUREMENT OF A PLAYERS SKILL, ITS JUST THE MOST IMPORTANT. BUT DON'T THINK THAT A TEAM CAN "CO-ORDINATE" A VICTORY WHEN THE ENTIRE TEAM KEEPS DYING TO SUPERIOR SKILLED PLAYERS. GOOD LUCK WITH THAT... considering the nature of this game's future: If i throw a billion isk at an alliance, asking them to field their entire mercenary force at some little spec of rock in nulsec, and that the defending force may or may not know whats coming, then no... victory has nothing to do with kdr, victory in this case is about overwhelming numbers, used to smash all opposition, repeatedly... until said opposition decides its not worth it... The problem is, is that you define victory in terms of a standard death match. I'm still fuzzy on how it will work in the future but I got the impression that you couldn't use all the same tactics you could in EVE to the same effect. For example your statement, I know that the number of players per match will increase in the future but doesn't the fact that there is a cap on the amount of players per match stop this tactic to a curtain extent. Of course if the other team can't come up with enough mercs or resources this strategy could be successful. However, if they both fill to max capacity it would seem that it comes down to player skill (and gear of course) rather than overwhelming numbers. Please correct me if I'm wrong I'm still not quite sure how null sec battles will work and I apologies if my post holds little truth to it.
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.09.06 18:23:00 - [64] - Quote So you throw your billion ISK or whatever at them, and the guys you hired get owned EVERY game. The other team are stacking the cash they're getting for more defenses. LoL, you could hire as many scrubs as you like. They might take the planet while the good team sleeps or something, but otherwise, you are just going to lose your money. You'd need to hire top end players to fight top end players. And then it'll be a good fight. I dot think you get this whole FPS thing... Oh and about the Op? KDR is an indicator of how well you do, it doesn't determine how well you do. Your post makes much more sense with that change.
Carilito Algintal Core Gallente Federation 345	Posted - 2012.09.06 18:30:00 - [65] - Quote Zekain Kade wrote: STB Vermaak Doe wrote: Bravo to the completely false conclusion. Kd doesn't mean squat. At most it says how often you fight noobs. Kd doesn't mean you captured or defended an objective, just that you got blah amount of kills based on skill, luck, or enemy noobs. If i'm able to cap ,and hold an objective single handedly, then I m sure KD does mean something there. five .50 players would all die in the first five seconds of the cap, where as i would still be fighting. I fight a lot of noobs because they're all unable to get a positive KD, I can take on, and kill most of you STB kids when you aren't hiding in a tank. Your KD does mean much much more then what you think. Honestly my KDR is terrible due to testing things, bugs and killing my own team for a day or two to see how much damage I could do. But I know my ability to kill other people is pretty good, even in militia fits I dont shy away from protos or what not. Its having the knowledge to out react them is more important, gear just gives you buffer room between going down. Its like the difference between playing Zelda: Twilight Princess and Demon Souls. Zelda slowly builds up your equipment/attacks and most fights you have lots of chances to be hit and live. Demon Souls is the most brutal RPG ever made and can only be beat by a combination of sweet items and skill but if you aren't skilled having the best gear only means you die slower and lose money faster.
kalahari ilkeston Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 51	Posted - 2012.09.06 18:41:00 - [66] - Quote My kd ratio is about 0.2 yet I still earn about 20- 30 thousand sp per game
howard sanchez Conspiratus Immortalis 448	Posted - 2012.09.06 18:44:00 - [67] - Quote K:D is a good stat for a narrow role. The problem with the current DUST build is that it is one of the only stats we have. CCP has clearly and recently said that the next build will have other stats including WP earned The narrow role that KD is good for is trigger puller, offensive direct fire infantry guy. It does not measure your team contribution or battlefield effectiveness beyond your ability to put plasma on target and aoid the same being put on you "Mlahblashwaaaa! KD epeen, lol omg BBQ fish". Yes, I hear you fps leetsters; you firmly believe that what I just described is ALL there is to DUST and every other FPS. Guess what? I have met your ilk before. 10 years with 1stMARDIV has shown that every 0311 ever made believes the same thing. It's ok, grunts, we get it. You are the Best at what you do. And we all need you to be the best. It helps the team. It wins wars. Trying to convince you that there is more to combat effectiveness than accurate trigger pulling is a worthless cause. It does not compute. And that's ok. Keep pulling triggers, you are doing it right. Your KD is soooo big! Great job Ok, everyone else gather round. We have business to attend to
Kyy Seiska Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 188	Posted - 2012.09.06 19:57:00 - [68] - Quote kalahari ilkeston wrote: My kd ratio is about 0.2 yet I still earn about 20- 30 thousand sp per game I mean below 1.0 I can understand especially for newer players but 0.2 seems like you are doing something horribly wrong even as a medic. Also be sure to get yourself checked by a shrink, just to be sure. You might have suicidal tendencies. Or are you doing the hidden going for the hidden Pacifist challenge?
Zekain Kade BetaMax. 931	Posted - 2012.09.07 03:08:00 - [69] - Quote Fun fact: most of the guys with the highest KD's at the end of a game will also have the most war points. Merc A hacks a point, and has to wait. He dies in the process by a sniper. Merc B is still alive, and actively defending the point from enemies so the hack can finish. Merb B is able to kill ATLEAST 4 others before dying. Merc B now has 200 points, while Merc A has 100.
Carilito Algintal Core Gallente Federation 345	Posted - 2012.09.07 03:41:00 - [70] - Quote Zekain Kade wrote: Fun fact: most of the guys with the highest KD's at the end of a game will also have the most war points. Merc A hacks a point, and has to wait. He dies in the process by a sniper. Merc B is still alive, and actively defending the point from enemies so the hack can finish. Merb B is able to kill ATLEAST 4 others before dying. Merc B now has 200 points, while Merc A has 100. I see what your trying to point out but unless you want to sit down every player and teach them the ins and outs of Dust; your yelling at a brick wall. Players only get better with experience, not getting patronized. If your kid cant catch the ball, its not his fault; he will only catch the ball after he has the drive to learn to catch the ball. Besides half the player base is so causal they dont even bother with the forums.

Hobos-N-Guns Soldiers Of One Network Orion Empire 44	Posted - 2012.09.07 05:22:00 - [71] - Quote K/D is a poor indicator. Many people spend time as gunners or capturing points like CRU's or die more keeping pressure on a particular point to help the team as a whole since the goal is to win the match. They should also add Friendly kills, Captures, and vehicles destroyed.
Shiro Mokuzan 220	Posted - 2012.09.07 06:05:00 - [72] - Quote EnglishSnake wrote: KDR means **** all Fixed.
Primus Core Brimstone Tactical Covert Intervention 22	Posted - 2012.09.07 07:50:00 - [73] - Quote For the record! So as to end this debate once and for all: Corporate Leaderboards Crux Special Tasks Group: 2nd in kills 15th in KDR #1 in War Points earned In other words, it's very likely that the members of our corporation, many of which I've played with and have observed this behavior personally, are working more efficiently as a team and winning their games much more consistently. Plenty of support, actively taking objectives, working as a squad - all the things necessary to win and show real skill, not show off in the ability of how well we can point and click. You want me to take your KDR into consideration when I'm judging your skill? You better be a frontline soldier or a sniper, otherwise it is flat-out the most useless stat in the game and absolutely no help in determining whether or not you're a valuable asset to my team.
Heinz Doofenshertz BetaMax. 360	Posted - 2012.09.07 08:34:00 - [74] - Quote To add to this conversation, some people have been working on extra statistics that can be used as a better judge for Dust than the three we have atm. I'd speak more on that topic but am not allowed to due to certain restrictions. but understnad, that almost no one takes straight KDR as any real means of telling how good you are.
D3aTH D3alER54 The Southern Legion 130	Posted - 2012.09.07 10:01:00 - [75] - Quote STB Vermaak Doe wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Unfortunately KD actually IS meaningless Why? Because tanks, that's why. And scouts, snipers, mil shotguns, etc. If i use any of that i WILL go negitive K/D, How do people use tanks and survive i will never know ..
madd mudd 41	Posted - 2012.09.07 10:13:00 - [76] - Quote EnglishSnake wrote: KDR means **** all tbh when hit detection is still dodgy, we are having framerate drops and its easy as pie to skill into a tank Why is it so much easier to spec into a tank than a logi LAV? or an effective HAV?


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