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Patches The Hyena
204
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Posted - 2012.09.05 08:24:00 -
[1] - Quote
With all the concern over OP tanks and nerfed AV and the shouting for buffed AV I'm concerned dropships could suffer badly from a potential fix. Currently dropships are fairly squishy and relative to AV weapons seem to be in a decent balance. Maybe some fine tuning is in order but if AV weapons get an across the board buff dropships will then be very weak, especially relative to cost.
I don't really have a solution for the AV vs Tanks debate, but I don't want dropships to be ruined by an AV buff. So if that is the step taken I would suggest a look at a small buff to dropships to keep them at the balance they're at now. |
Kyy Seiska
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
188
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Posted - 2012.09.05 08:45:00 -
[2] - Quote
Agreed, they are fairly rare even now making them more of a rare slight than a valuable asset. Are they that easy to take down or are the pilots rewards just not worth it?
As for the tank AV vs Tank debate, tanks are far too powerful for a single player to operate and they should require at least 2 like every other vehicle. |
Wolf Ritter vonKaldari
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
97
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Posted - 2012.09.05 09:34:00 -
[3] - Quote
Patches The Hyena wrote:dropships... fairly squishy... to AV weapons It's almost like bolting enough armor and big enough shield generators to stop dedicated anti-tank weapons is counterproductive to achieving flight. |
Patches The Hyena
204
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Posted - 2012.09.05 09:38:00 -
[4] - Quote
Dropships are rare because they're squishy, rewards are bad and expensive. So its currently only done by those with a passion for it. So its an all of the above thing.
As far as tanks, I'm avoiding that topic with this thread. There are plenty of threads about it, I just don't want dropships to get screwed even more with a potential AV buff. |
Skihids
Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising
969
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Posted - 2012.09.05 14:34:00 -
[5] - Quote
Patches The Hyena wrote:Dropships are rare because they're squishy, rewards are bad and expensive. So its currently only done by those with a passion for it. So its an all of the above thing.
As far as tanks, I'm avoiding that topic with this thread. There are plenty of threads about it, I just don't want dropships to get screwed even more with a potential AV buff.
This.
Just as in the real world the pay is horrible. Flying is a hobby because it doesn't pay a living wage. I personally fund my flying with an assault rifle. Progression is slow because you aren't getting ANY SP in basic flight training and very little when you do eventually venture out with a gunner. Other roles get a fair SP reward for practicing their craft which encourages further practice. Pilots mainly gain player skill and the joy of flying.
It's made more difficult by the fact that pilots get no SP for solo flight. They need to partner up, ideally with not one, but two gunners. No quick matches.
And finally, a dropships main role is troop transport not gunship, and never in a random match have I seen six guys pile in for a quick flight to the distant objective. It's all LAV's, HAV's, or hikers.
Make it any more difficult and most pilots will decide that it's a hobby they can no longer afford. |
Tailss Prower
Pro Hic Immortalis RISE of LEGION
26
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Posted - 2012.09.05 16:20:00 -
[6] - Quote
Skihids wrote:Patches The Hyena wrote:Dropships are rare because they're squishy, rewards are bad and expensive. So its currently only done by those with a passion for it. So its an all of the above thing.
As far as tanks, I'm avoiding that topic with this thread. There are plenty of threads about it, I just don't want dropships to get screwed even more with a potential AV buff. This. Just as in the real world the pay is horrible. Flying is a hobby because it doesn't pay a living wage. I personally fund my flying with an assault rifle. Progression is slow because you aren't getting ANY SP in basic flight training and very little when you do eventually venture out with a gunner. Other roles get a fair SP reward for practicing their craft which encourages further practice. Pilots mainly gain player skill and the joy of flying. It's made more difficult by the fact that pilots get no SP for solo flight. They need to partner up, ideally with not one, but two gunners. No quick matches. And finally, a dropships main role is troop transport not gunship, and never in a random match have I seen six guys pile in for a quick flight to the distant objective. It's all LAV's, HAV's, or hikers. Make it any more difficult and most pilots will decide that it's a hobby they can no longer afford.
most pilots not me :P
using it as a gunship ain't that bad for one and I do transport people from 1 place to another when they acturally get in |
wathak 514
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
106
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Posted - 2012.09.05 17:04:00 -
[7] - Quote
Yes if av weopons get buffed dropships will need some tanking buff maby more slots to work with if possible currently t1 and t2 dropships have the same slot layout and only a little increase in hp betwen the 2 maby widen the gap some.
As for the transport deal yea i also find i have no taxi callers but when me and my gunners are owning the field i d get a full dropship of moochers. |
Tony Calif
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
2002
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Posted - 2012.09.05 17:11:00 -
[8] - Quote
High end Dropships are currently immune to swarmers. I'd be worried. If a dropship wasn't a game of ISK... Everyone says they're expensive, but really they aren't. Rewards are crap, but what do you want, SP just because you bought a Dropship? They are very useful assets, especially if you can afford to throw them away. |
BestNameEva
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
86
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Posted - 2012.09.06 01:54:00 -
[9] - Quote
Tony Calif wrote:High end Dropships are currently immune to swarmers. I'd be worried. If a dropship wasn't a game of ISK... Everyone says they're expensive, but really they aren't. Rewards are crap, but what do you want, SP just because you bought a Dropship? They are very useful assets, especially if you can afford to throw them away.
I wouldn't say immune, my dropship is as TANK as I could possibly make it and although I can take a few silos worth of missiles before running away theres a VERY good chance that after flying around the map a few times to recharge shields there will be another 10 silos worth all bunched together still following me, its like getting hit by a nuke. Also flipping needs to be nerfed. I like being pushed around by impact but sometimes its just insane! "incoming missiles, BRACE" triple back flip, boom into a mountain.
Oh also I think missiles should lose there lock within a few meters so skillful dodging isn't pointless |
Sin3 DeusNomine
Doomheim
142
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Posted - 2012.09.06 03:43:00 -
[10] - Quote
Tony Calif wrote:High end Dropships are currently immune to swarmers. I'd be worried. If a dropship wasn't a game of ISK... Everyone says they're expensive, but really they aren't. Rewards are crap, but what do you want, SP just because you bought a Dropship? They are very useful assets, especially if you can afford to throw them away.
I pay 800k Isk per myron build currently Yes they are very very expensive. One guy swarming is no problem for me in my drop ship but you get 4 guys swarming you are really pushing your limits. And begin the game of running half the game if not more.
Currently drop ships need some love. I can gain anywhere from 50-100k running on foot with a assult rifle. In my drop ship if I ever break 50k SP I am shitting my pants and going wow what the hell.
The isk and SP pay out is just crap. I just had a gunner kill 3 gunnlogis on my turret he gets close to 400k isk while I pull jjust under 200k isk. He gets 100k SP I get 45k SP.
AV verses dropships is perfect right now. they do just the right amount of damage. The phsyics help the AVs alot but also make it so that good flyers can escape and pull off some pretty cool manuvors to keep alive. Right now it is a great balance. I can field my 800k myron and if I fly smart I can keep it alive the whole game but if I make a mistake I will be a burnning heap of scrap metal. |
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Sees-Too-Much
332
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Posted - 2012.09.06 04:04:00 -
[11] - Quote
I actually think it's pretty appropriate. The dropship isn't supposed to be a gunship so using it for that role shouldn't be a great source of warpoints.
When we get more capabilities and more sources of support warpoints and we can use dropships the way they're supposed to be used I'm sure we'll get the warpoints we deserve. |
Sin3 DeusNomine
Doomheim
142
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Posted - 2012.09.06 12:36:00 -
[12] - Quote
I am not saying my WP needs to come from my gunners. But there needs to a source of points For drop ships. I run squad command and will put the defend order on my myron. My team runs 2 people on ground and 1 in gunner seat. I will pick up and drop off the 2 people on ground to key locations. and then hover above them giving them support. From that I achieve squad leader WP if any of my members on the ground gets kills/hack objectives. Even with all the extra points I achieve less SP at the end of the match then my squad members by far. I do hope they do not make just the extra points of CRU in ships. I would like to see drop ships getting rewards for different stuff.
Isk ratio I recive is pretty crap also. I am able to keep a drop ship in the air at all times but I am a very good pilot. And usually I am not even making great isk in the end. I can see most pilots being only able to fund a drop ships every once in a awhile. And being that they will never be able to fund a 800k myron set up because they are constantly to poor.
Now any dropship pilot can agree the nerf to AVs all of a sudden made flying a drop ship possible and allowed a pilot to do is supportive roll instead of being on the edge of the map going full speed the whole game trying not to get hit by swarms. AV nerf has made drop ships possible. And it is great balance i feel even in my myron it takes one mistake and I am done. |
Sees-Too-Much
332
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Posted - 2012.09.06 13:10:00 -
[13] - Quote
Well, fear not fellow pilot! Changes, they are a-comin'!
Oh, and there's a channel for pilots and DS gunners in-game called 0k0d that I'm trying to get more people into |
Patches The Hyena
204
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Posted - 2012.09.06 13:16:00 -
[14] - Quote
To pass along good news I'll post some stuff CCP nothin said in IRC when I asked him about dropships. Note, this is all me paraphrasing him, and at no point did he guarantee anything, was just talk of ideas they had. So its not set in stone.
-if they buff AV to counter tanks he said they have discussed Buffing dropship HP to maintain current balance.
-the swarm missiles causing dropships to flip over is a bug and is not intended, I assume this also means they'll fix it at some point but the conversation moved on before he said anything about that.
-they plan on adjusting what all vehicle drivers/pilots get WP for. He also said they've discussed a way to give pilots/drivers a share of points for what dropped off troops do. E.g. pilot ferries a squad to C, squad hacks C and said pilot gets +X WP for the transport.
-lastly, he said they want to give us more active and passive defense. Such as, warning alarm when someone is locked on with swarms and chaff for active missile defense.
So dropship love is planned! |
Just Bad
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
34
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Posted - 2012.09.06 13:32:00 -
[15] - Quote
Free Beers made a good post on what could be done about swarms in the future that could go some way to addressing making AV effective against tanks while not OP against dropships. See: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=34630&find=unread
From what I gathered from the thread the core idea that Beers was getting at was that differing variants of the swarm launchers would have preferred use cases with characteristics to enforce that. You'd have swarms which dealt lots of damage but couldn't hit dropships focused on anti-tank, or swarms that could hit either dropships, tanks or LAVs but that'd have damage low enough that you wouldn't want to use them against tanks.
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Avenger 245
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
477
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Posted - 2012.09.06 14:25:00 -
[16] - Quote
i think a vehcile meant to transport troops should be fairly heavly armored, i think dropships should be able to take more damage than they do right now not as much as a tank but more. if CCP ever adds weak and strong spots in armor then dropships should have a strong armored bottom.
dropship pilots should get 10+ for every soldeir they move around the map and drop off to incourge troop transport and using them if pilots got points for dropping guys off like a dropship is meant for it would incourge their correct use. |
Sin3 DeusNomine
Doomheim
142
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Posted - 2012.09.06 15:38:00 -
[17] - Quote
Patches The Hyena wrote:To pass along good news I'll post some stuff CCP nothin said in IRC when I asked him about dropships. Note, this is all me paraphrasing him, and at no point did he guarantee anything, was just talk of ideas they had. So its not set in stone.
-if they buff AV to counter tanks he said they have discussed Buffing dropship HP to maintain current balance.
-the swarm missiles causing dropships to flip over is a bug and is not intended, I assume this also means they'll fix it at some point but the conversation moved on before he said anything about that.
-they plan on adjusting what all vehicle drivers/pilots get WP for. He also said they've discussed a way to give pilots/drivers a share of points for what dropped off troops do. E.g. pilot ferries a squad to C, squad hacks C and said pilot gets +X WP for the transport.
-lastly, he said they want to give us more active and passive defense. Such as, warning alarm when someone is locked on with swarms and chaff for active missile defense.
So dropship love is planned!
Thanks for this info. :) I do hope they still allow swarms to bang you around. Just would like the unexpected insta flip over thing to be resolved had that happen a few times. Where my myron is sitting on its back like a turtle waiting for death. |
Kaif Zel
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
88
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Posted - 2012.09.06 15:46:00 -
[18] - Quote
wathak 514 wrote:As for the transport deal yea i also find i have no taxi callers but when me and my gunners are owning the field i d get a full dropship of moochers.
Nothing annoys me more than when i have guys in my dropship NOT on the guns and they refuse to hop out when I'm hovering over an objective my gunners are peppering with fire. Get the **** out of my dropship and DO YOUR JOB YOU SLACKERS |
Patches The Hyena
204
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Posted - 2012.09.08 10:54:00 -
[19] - Quote
Sin3 DeusNomine wrote:Patches The Hyena wrote:To pass along good news I'll post some stuff CCP nothin said in IRC when I asked him about dropships. Note, this is all me paraphrasing him, and at no point did he guarantee anything, was just talk of ideas they had. So its not set in stone.
-if they buff AV to counter tanks he said they have discussed Buffing dropship HP to maintain current balance.
-the swarm missiles causing dropships to flip over is a bug and is not intended, I assume this also means they'll fix it at some point but the conversation moved on before he said anything about that.
-they plan on adjusting what all vehicle drivers/pilots get WP for. He also said they've discussed a way to give pilots/drivers a share of points for what dropped off troops do. E.g. pilot ferries a squad to C, squad hacks C and said pilot gets +X WP for the transport.
-lastly, he said they want to give us more active and passive defense. Such as, warning alarm when someone is locked on with swarms and chaff for active missile defense.
So dropship love is planned! Thanks for this info. :) I do hope they still allow swarms to bang you around. Just would like the unexpected insta flip over thing to be resolved had that happen a few times. Where my myron is sitting on its back like a turtle waiting for death.
Yes they plan on keeping the reaction to impact while fixing whatever bug it is that causes the exaggerated reactions. |
fred orpaul
Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising
213
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Posted - 2012.09.08 18:12:00 -
[20] - Quote
Patches The Hyena wrote:With all the concern over OP tanks and nerfed AV and the shouting for buffed AV I'm concerned dropships could suffer badly from a potential fix. Currently dropships are fairly squishy and relative to AV weapons seem to be in a decent balance. Maybe some fine tuning is in order but if AV weapons get an across the board buff dropships will then be very weak, especially relative to cost.
I don't really have a solution for the AV vs Tanks debate, but I don't want dropships to be ruined by an AV buff. So if that is the step taken I would suggest a look at a small buff to dropships to keep them at the balance they're at now.
swarms should be left alone agreed but the forge needs a major range increase. other then that I agree av does not need to be buffed it works well now.
my friend and i regularly roll multiple tanks with advanced swarms. With decent team support tanks would be no issue. Really you dont have to put much into swarm to make a tank driver sweat. |
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Seran Jinkar
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
214
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Posted - 2012.09.08 18:19:00 -
[21] - Quote
Depends on the tank and the driver. Check out the 6th Septembre IRC stuff and have a look at how certain modules haven't been adapted properly to the AV nerf. |
q00t
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
5
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Posted - 2012.09.13 22:18:00 -
[22] - Quote
Sin3 DeusNomine wrote: I pay 800k Isk per myron build currently
Would you mind sharing your build modules please? I'm loving flying round, despite the cost, but I seem to get nuked out of the sky, even in the Gallante CRU ships. I just got a skill point in Caldari to try the myron and seemed to get shot out of the sky in seconds. |
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