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Encharrion
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
104
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Posted - 2012.08.25 04:02:00 -
[31] - Quote
Altessan Vigarde wrote:So far in the week since precursor got updated, I have earned enough SP to get level five in Dropsuit command, Assault Rifle Operation, Engineering, Sniper Rifle Operation, and Weaponry. Now I know that there are a lot of skills and many of them are significantly more expensive to upgrade, but I feel like it should take more that a week of playing to max out that many skills, right now SP system doesn't seem like Eve where it would take fifteen years to acquire all of the skills. So imo there should either be more skills or less SP.
Those are low level skills, it should be easy to max out those skills, x1 and x2 skills are maxed out in eve in a few days.
Debacle Nano wrote:Ashe Kelly wrote:Tony Calif wrote:Indeed. 6mil for a black op HAV isn't enough. Invisible tanks should be 200mil SP ;) Edit highest SP running and gunning was 140k ish. I had a random 60k with heavy diminished returns. Considering how black ops battleships can run up to a billion and a half, and how null sec corp members on the low end can make about 100 mil an hour, 200 mil is rather merciful. Umm, no one makes a 100 million SP per hour. If so, tell me how.
He clearly misread and was talking about ISK. |
carl von oppenheimer
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
158
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Posted - 2012.08.25 05:36:00 -
[32] - Quote
Problem with the equation is that kill whoring is rewarded too much easy fix is to give equal points from assists and kills. |
STB Vermaak Doe
558
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Posted - 2012.08.25 05:40:00 -
[33] - Quote
carl von oppenheimer wrote:Problem with the equation is that kill whoring is rewarded too much easy fix is to give equal points from assists and kills.
Hail no just give more points for all logistical duties. A revive deserves at least 100 warpoints |
Buzzwords
Deadly Blue Dots RISE of LEGION
416
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Posted - 2012.08.25 05:44:00 -
[34] - Quote
STB Vermaak Doe wrote:carl von oppenheimer wrote:Problem with the equation is that kill whoring is rewarded too much easy fix is to give equal points from assists and kills. Hail no just give more points for all logistical duties. A revive deserves at least 100 warpoints
i dunno about a flat 100 across the board, but i would really like to see a higher point reward for using a higher tier injector.
maybe keep the 60 for militia and standard, 80 for advanced, and 100 for a prototype revive.
if they don't differentiate, most people will never bother with the better injectors.. they're never gonna use it on themselves you know? |
STB Vermaak Doe
558
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Posted - 2012.08.25 05:45:00 -
[35] - Quote
Buzzwords wrote:STB Vermaak Doe wrote:carl von oppenheimer wrote:Problem with the equation is that kill whoring is rewarded too much easy fix is to give equal points from assists and kills. Hail no just give more points for all logistical duties. A revive deserves at least 100 warpoints i dunno about a flat 100 across the board, but i would really like to see a higher point reward for using a higher tier injector. maybe keep the 60 for militia and standard, 80 for advanced, and 100 for a prototype revive. if they don't differentiate, most people will never bother with the better injectors.. they're never gonna use it on themselves you know?
Great idea +1 |
Mejji Sez
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
19
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Posted - 2012.08.25 06:13:00 -
[36] - Quote
Buzzwords wrote:
i dunno about a flat 100 across the board, but i would really like to see a higher point reward for using a higher tier injector.
maybe keep the 60 for militia and standard, 80 for advanced, and 100 for a prototype revive.
if they don't differentiate, most people will never bother with the better injectors.. they're never gonna use it on themselves you know?
That is a good idea! |
Chao Wolf
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
209
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Posted - 2012.08.25 07:29:00 -
[37] - Quote
Had an odd idea earlier today... What if our active sp was put directly into what we are using in combat, while we were able to pick where to put our passive sp? |
Fivetimes Infinity
Immobile Infantry
1086
|
Posted - 2012.08.25 08:15:00 -
[38] - Quote
Well, during the fanfest presentations they said their current line-up of skills will take people 7 years or so to get through. Maybe it's just that there's a ton of skills we haven't seen yet? |
Pent'noir
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
61
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Posted - 2012.08.25 09:05:00 -
[39] - Quote
I hope there are 100's of more skills that we don't see yet.... At this rate, ppl will of maxed out every skill in less than a year. After a couple of years down the road, I want there to still be skills that I need to get, hell I want it to be completely unrealistic to want to max everything out. I really only see this happening if active sp is on the same level as passive.... drip drip drop slow |
Shiro Mokuzan
220
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Posted - 2012.08.25 10:02:00 -
[40] - Quote
Pent'noir wrote:I hope there are 100's of more skills that we don't see yet.... At this rate, ppl will of maxed out every skill in less than a year. After a couple of years down the road, I want there to still be skills that I need to get, hell I want it to be completely unrealistic to want to max everything out. I really only see this happening if active sp is on the same level as passive.... drip drip drop slow
That's exactly how EVE is--the total skills available would take longer to train than EVE has existed (about 15 years vs about 10 years).
That's why specialization early on is key. |
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Ten-Sidhe
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
414
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Posted - 2012.08.25 10:17:00 -
[41] - Quote
There are a lot of obvious ones. We have no ewar skills yet, no corp skills(allow corp size increase, mixed races), leadership skills(larger squads and passive bonus), social skills(affect npc mission payout and standings). We have no r&d, trade, or industry. Hopefully mining won't pop up, bad enogh in EvE I don't want to equip a shovel. We don't have many weapons yet, amarr only have pistol, gallente only shotgun and ar (their battle doctrine doesn't favor sniping, but they share tech with caldari that focus on it).
All the suits will have racial variants, caldari heavy, amarr scout, etc... The black ops and marauders almost seem tech ii, if so the skill to unlock them will be hav V and a then separate marauder and black ops skills with x16 or so multiplier.
Tech II unlock in eve for so gear is under week, skill progression seems fine to me. Maybe add to passive and reduce active(by adjusting grind penalty) to keep same average rate of gain the same. That would even out casual with grinders the best I think, average gamer is unchanged, casual up in sp but still poor in isk, grinder down in sp but still rich(assuming they now how to make money).
People that don't play often will get most from aur. Kinda grind or pay to win, choose one or little of each, assuming some skill of course best gun won't help when you miss. |
Aardwolf Pneumatic
SyNergy Gaming
18
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Posted - 2012.08.25 10:39:00 -
[42] - Quote
I'm quite happy with the rate of skill point earnings at this current point in time. It will be a grind to get specialised, but thats what the game is about, everyone playing a different role, fitting together as a unit. If SP was as easy to earn as before the precursor build, the game would be a dead end especially in terms of variation in gameplay and corps. Im just worried about the fact that people who have a monetary advantage over everyone can earn more SP. Its like there's a social and elitist divide already IMO. |
Cerebral Wolf Jr
Immobile Infantry
760
|
Posted - 2012.08.25 10:40:00 -
[43] - Quote
I actually raised this issue in the survey i filled in. I think SP gain is far, far too fast. You should be capped at something like 1m sp a month.
I don't care how they do it, diminishing returns, more emphasis on passive skill gain etc etc.
At the moment, in 12-18 months time there's going to such a HUGE gap between new players joining the game and people that have been here for launch that it's going to be a blood bath and that's against the whole "New Eden" feel. Someone who's been playing the game for 2 hours should in theory be able to kill someone who's been playing for 2 years. |
Ekull Zekariah
117
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Posted - 2012.08.25 10:40:00 -
[44] - Quote
I would like to weigh in on this thread:
No. |
Vrain Matari
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
404
|
Posted - 2012.08.25 13:08:00 -
[45] - Quote
I agree the SP are coming in too fast - but not for the average player.
The anti-grinding mechanic should be made considerably more aggressive, and the sp trickle should be adjusted down by half or more.
The reward should be the pleasure of playing the game, not how many skill levels you can grind in a night. Character development plans should span months, not days or weeks.
That being said, if playing the game is going to be the primary reward, then the fps and control mechanics still need a lot of work before they reach the level of kinesthetic goodness required to draw in paying customers. |
Vrain Matari
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
404
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Posted - 2012.08.25 13:32:00 -
[46] - Quote
Chao Wolf wrote:Had an odd idea earlier today... What if our active sp was put directly into what we are using in combat, while we were able to pick where to put our passive sp?
I really like this idea, Chao Wolf. Adds realism and texture to the game. You could make the active sp maybe a 70/30 split so some could be spent at will.
Right now I'm running as an assault to skill up my logistics skills. It's just flat out goofy. |
Vrain Matari
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
404
|
Posted - 2012.08.25 13:38:00 -
[47] - Quote
Fivetimes Infinity wrote:Well, during the fanfest presentations they said their current line-up of skills will take people 7 years or so to get through. Maybe it's just that there's a ton of skills we haven't seen yet?
For sure you're right, but on the other hand everybody is going to specialize, so one of the most important measures of how many sp the game should give out is: how quickly can we drill through the skill tree to put ourselves in a strong/godly build? |
Berserker007
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
206
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Posted - 2012.08.25 14:54:00 -
[48] - Quote
Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote:I actually raised this issue in the survey i filled in. I think SP gain is far, far too fast. You should be capped at something like 1m sp a month.
I don't care how they do it, diminishing returns, more emphasis on passive skill gain etc etc.
At the moment, in 12-18 months time there's going to such a HUGE gap between new players joining the game and people that have been here for launch that it's going to be a blood bath and that's against the whole "New Eden" feel. Someone who's been playing the game for 2 hours should in theory be able to kill someone who's been playing for 2 years.
Seriously, how do u think SP gain is to fast. Did you (or others) play last build ? Seeing as last build could put up b/t 700k,1mil SP day with not many game, now you need to double the amount for say 500k SP ina day, and that is if you are playing for hours.
If you make a cap of 1mil SP a month, you will have players stop playing after 3-4 days.
You think it is fast SP gain, as you can lv up a 1x or 2x skill in one day maybe two. Try doing that for skills are are 3x or 5x . Skills i fully maxed in a 1-2 days last build are taking 4-5 now pending amount can play, freezes/invalds
SP gain is perfectly fine. Stop making it into EVE where passive SP is what you get most of. EVE doesnt flux around PvP at=every situation ever second like DUST.
Simply put, keep SP as is, grinding 10-12 for a lv3 skill is fine enough. Plus it makes u think more on lv5 skills, do u want to spend 512k on that ine skill or put it into say 3 levels of something else |
carl von oppenheimer
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
158
|
Posted - 2012.08.25 20:24:00 -
[49] - Quote
What if we would just simply greatly reduce active SP and give 2750SP/h instead (EVE SP gain with maxed attributes). This would mean that everyone gets a good amount of SP but if you play actively you still get more then by waiting off line.
You would get a lvl 5 in rank 1 skill in about a week; I wonder if being forced to train only one skill at a time would fly in a shooter game ? Probably not but just guessing.
However current system where some people down the chart get maybe 8k and those on top chart get 80k just isn't going to fly in the long run. |
MA347612890GT4078579132R
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
3
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Posted - 2012.08.25 20:30:00 -
[50] - Quote
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't we still earning SP at a boosted X5 rate to aid in testing skills? That's how it was in previous builds. Though I could be wrong on the exact number it was boosted, but the SP gain was boosted. |
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Berserker007
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
206
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Posted - 2012.08.25 20:32:00 -
[51] - Quote
No, last build was 4x , this is standard normal SP gain |
Craig Greenway
21
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Posted - 2012.08.25 20:50:00 -
[52] - Quote
Simple question - why should people who play more be penalised compared to people who play less?
This argument is assuming match balancing is strong enough - my argument will probably fail when it comes to go live and super strong corporations can't be beat however?! |
DUST Fiend
Immobile Infantry
1903
|
Posted - 2012.08.25 20:55:00 -
[53] - Quote
Craig Greenway wrote:Simple question - why should people who play more be penalised compared to people who play less?
Because there's going to be a very large pool of casuals in this game, and turning them off by letting no lifers sky rocket ahead would just be bad business. |
Pent'noir
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
61
|
Posted - 2012.08.25 21:17:00 -
[54] - Quote
To me, its not about the hardcore or casuals. Its about having something that will last for the years to come. Always having some skill that you need being trained. If that also helps to level the playing field between the hardcore/casuals, then thats cool! I don't think they are going to make a dust 515 or anything like that. It will just be ported over to the ps4 and updated with whatever goodies.
Also, if i'm able to get enough sp to max out all of the skills that I wanted, then the chances of me ever buying a booster is next to nill, which means, once this game finds its place and lasts a couple years, many ppl could have all of the skills they could ever want and are probably filthy rich, so they will never buy any aur ever again. |
Sha Kharn Clone
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
1087
|
Posted - 2012.08.25 21:36:00 -
[55] - Quote
Nearly 6 mil sp in what is it 8 days ?
I'm a no lifer atm and wont be able to always do this but I'm sure many will be going at this really hardcore. Diminishing reterns needs a little tweaking maybe ?
Thats over 270 mil sp in a year if I was able to keep that up.
Edit: would prob quit the game if i ended up with half of that in a year.
May all your wishs come true but one. |
Cerebral Wolf Jr
Immobile Infantry
760
|
Posted - 2012.08.25 22:58:00 -
[56] - Quote
Berserker007 wrote:Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote:I actually raised this issue in the survey i filled in. I think SP gain is far, far too fast. You should be capped at something like 1m sp a month.
I don't care how they do it, diminishing returns, more emphasis on passive skill gain etc etc.
At the moment, in 12-18 months time there's going to such a HUGE gap between new players joining the game and people that have been here for launch that it's going to be a blood bath and that's against the whole "New Eden" feel. Someone who's been playing the game for 2 hours should in theory be able to kill someone who's been playing for 2 years. Seriously, how do u think SP gain is to fast. Did you (or others) play last build ? Seeing as last build could put up b/t 700k,1mil SP day with not many game, now you need to double the amount for say 500k SP ina day, and that is if you are playing for hours. If you make a cap of 1mil SP a month, you will have players stop playing after 3-4 days. You think it is fast SP gain, as you can lv up a 1x or 2x skill in one day maybe two. Try doing that for skills are are 3x or 5x . Skills i fully maxed in a 1-2 days last build are taking 4-5 now pending amount can play, freezes/invalds SP gain is perfectly fine. Stop making it into EVE where passive SP is what you get most of. EVE doesnt flux around PvP at=every situation ever second like DUST. Simply put, keep SP as is, grinding 10-12 for a lv3 skill is fine enough. Plus it makes u think more on lv5 skills, do u want to spend 512k on that ine skill or put it into say 3 levels of something else
I've played every build so far, so i know the comparison you're making but you're wrong. We're in the game galaxy as EVE players, it's called New Eden, The SP gains should be the same on the ground or in space, I.E about 1m a month. Why should it be different for people on a planet to people in a space ship?
Also, don't preach to me about EVE not being all PVP, i live in Nullsec with goonswarm, we do more PVP than 99% of you highsec carebears put together.
If it;s left as it is, alliances like ours will be unstoppable because of the sheer number of people we have and a large number of the people we recruit will sit around and play the game nonstop just to keep that SP advantage and abuse it.
Last build i didn't play much at all and i get slaughtered when i come on after a 2 week break because of the SP gap. Right now, i've been playing quite a lot, i have about 2m SP, not a massive number in comparison to some people but it's more than enough for me to 20/4 in more than a few games and walk away with 80k SP which puts me even more in front of your average player...
Does anyone know what the current SP needed for all maxed skills is? |
Berserker007
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
206
|
Posted - 2012.08.25 23:10:00 -
[57] - Quote
If yr curious on sp needed, go calculate it then yrself, it isnt hard... 500k for 1x, 1mil for 2x , 1.5mil for 3x , 2.5-3mil for 5x , 4-5mil for 8x , i gave u head start, go calculate it now
As to what u do w/ goon, that is NOT a majority of EVE players, dust is ALL pvp. If u diminish return more so and max caps, u will easily have people quit the game early, or hit the cap in 1-2 weeks, then what.. they get 0 sp till next month and only get isk. You essentially kill 1/2 the desire to play, why should i risk playing just for isk if i wont get sp also. Figure if u get the 1mil easly enough u are quite good on isk as well.
I find those who are complaining about sp being to high is since they arent able to play. Yes that does suck, but life isnt fair, and that is something CCP knows hence y they allow certain desired imbalances. I think CCP would want as many players on at a time, if u set sp caps, id be happy to bet player counts drop EVERY month at certain times when players hit 1mil SP and stop playing. Plus u have people paying for aurum, and ccp would want them playing as much as possible to use their aur so if they get low they can buy more.
Then if u hit the cap and are running a booster, what happens then, does it waist away, or let it pause till next month start?/ |
Cerebral Wolf Jr
Immobile Infantry
760
|
Posted - 2012.08.25 23:52:00 -
[58] - Quote
OK, First of all let me start by saying that 90% of popular internet browsers and phones etc all have a spell check on them, if you want to be taken seriously at all, you should learn to use it. Your above post make you look like you're still in school, I'd guess around 14 years old and are the type of player that wants the large difference in SP because you can't afford to use AUR as an advantage and you need an advantage to play against older, more experienced players who can follow direction and work well as part of a team.
Putting that aside, I want to make clear that i have NO issue at all with a large SP difference in players if it's dealt with correctly, it's an obvious example to use and anyone from MAG hates it because it's not a FPS comparison but in EVE and by extension, New Eden, The universe that Dust takes part in a very experienced player with a large number of SP can be slaughtered by someone with very little SP, Myself in actual fact got on a lot of very good kill mails and got some great kills when i first started because of how EVE deals with things like SP difference, Ship choices, Modules etc etc. Just like in Dust, with the right modules, weapons etc you can kill someone in a Heavy suit, with more armour, shields and firepower while you're in a scout suit but the difference between EVE and Dust right now is that you can't do it in Dust without a very large advantage in SP. In dust you can jump in a Destroyer, with the right set up and take down a Battle cruiser or even a battleship.
An SP advantage in Dust makes the whole game very, very different and gives people a huge advantage. I guarantee you that the current SP gain rate will not be used on release. It will be tweaked and changed to stop people getting several million SP in the space of a week.
Anyway, let's look at your post and points...
If I'd wanted to work out the current SP cap i could have, but to be quite frank it's a lot of effort and someone will have already worked it out, it's much easier to ask and get an answer, or not get an answer and not care, like i said, it's really not that important, more or a general query than anything else.
Goonwaffe maybe not be a vast majority of the EVE player base, as everyone knows that's a title firmly held by hisec carebears and i very much doubt the hisec carebears/industrial types are going to flock to something like Dust when it's been said time and time again that this is going be introduced as part of SOV mechanics, you're going to get a lot of very large alliances have a large Dust presence but hisec will rely on the FPS only playerbase, people that come from MAG etc that can be hired and have no EVE political agenda or affiliation. The point still stands though, the type of player who's going to be playing Dust is going to be a Nullsec Eve player or a FPS player.
Why would capping peoples SP gain remove their desire to play the game? People play the game for their Corp, or for ISK and to improve their gear, or to impove their standings or be the best etc etc, People are not going to play the game JUST to farm SP and max their characters, Changing the way SP is gained will not make people leave the game or stay longer, all it's going to do is manipulate the longevity of the game and the difference in SP between hardcore and you're more casual FPS players.
I'm able to play quite a lot at the moment and i'm complaining about SP gain, so you're point about only people who are unable to keep up being the ones to complain about SP gain is blatantly wrong right there. But as i said above, my issues are not really with the SP gain, it's the advantages that come with the SP. CCP do want an "anything can happen" feel to the game just like EVE i agree with that, but in EVE it's still balanced, here it's not yet got that balance it's going to need in the long term. I doubt they will set a hard cap on SP gain but i do expect to see it drastically reduced before release and i'd happily put money on it too as i know it's already been discussed on previous builds and they are still trying to find that "sweet spot" for SP gain but also SP balance.
If you think people would stop playing once they hit a SP cap you're clearly a bit dense anyway, there's a lot more to do here than just farm SP, You also have multiple characters you could play for a start. I'm going to use all 3 of my character slots for various different builds so depending on the the type of battle we expect (Once SOV wars start, things like intel will become very important to counter an enemy squad and their known ability for example) i can choose the correct character and build for that particular fight, much like people do in EVE.
As for your AUR and Booster comments i'm not going to bother replying because i'm out of characters and cant be bothered to make another post just for those points. I doubt you'll even pick apart this post and counter it correctly, if anything i'm expecting you to just mash the keyboard and cry. |
Berserker007
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
206
|
Posted - 2012.08.26 00:22:00 -
[59] - Quote
If i was on a computer i would, but being on my phone w/ barely any internet and barely able to go back to fix errors, sry for that, but tough crap then, as could care less if wasnt perfect, as im not gana take 20min to fix what i wrote.
As to my age, you are wrong, dont make judgments based off forum crap writing. As to aurum, i have 5 merc packs i bought myself thank you very much.
For use of other character slots, no thanks, rather just use the skills to beef up my current player then have 3 differ ones. As for people stopping at the cap, you never know, if oyu are playing with great gear, and only getting isk, you arent gaining any new/better gear, just replenish or add on what you have. Simply increasing bankroll isnt that important, as if i cant put that isk into any new gear im simply adding to what i have doesnt fully help.
As is, i have nothing to really say to you, as we have differ opinions and neither of us will agree with each other. Aside from the personal attacks, which is quite immature, let the topic get back on course, as am curious to see people opinions on the topic at hd |
Cerebral Wolf Jr
Immobile Infantry
760
|
Posted - 2012.08.26 00:31:00 -
[60] - Quote
I do believe you started the maliciousness first, it's only a few posts above for everyone to see and i certainly made no personal attacks against you, just made several observations and assumptions based on your terrible shitposting.
If you want people to assume correctly, or not make remarks about how your posts come over, it maybe in your interest to spend an extra 30 seconds on your post to tidy it up and make it easier for everyone else on the forums to read. |
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