DUST Search - Rise of the power of the Heavy Machine Gun

Warrior of MAG wrote:

The Heavy Machine gun is suppose to be deadly and something players should fear once in contact with. The Keyboard and Mouse support have made the heavies the most vulnerable yet. Nobody fears the gun like they should. MAG had a similar faith back in the days... SVER (one of the three factions) was dominiating MAG. In MAG, the weapons were only restricted into each faction. So a non-SVER player couldn't use a SVER weapon by default. Each faction use to have their own home map, which they only defend. There were a lot of players just complaining and complaining about how SVER was overpowered, SVER had better maps, SVER had better equipments and so on. In the end, Zipper made the worst decision possible and decided to decrease the firepower of all the weapons by a great gap. What happened after this? Everyone started to leave. Zipper nerfed the guns, but they never gave the firepower back? Probably, even the players who asked for the nerf left...

Of course, Dust 514 is only a beta and CCP have never developed a first person shooter before, so there is nobody to blame. People who will kill it for us will probably look for a new weapon to say "this is overpowered" and "that is overpowered". Wait a minute... the breach assualt rifles have also decreased in damage! What next?? I'm saying if CCP wants to attract MAG SVER players or former SVER players, I advised bring the firepower back. Teammwork will be required to take down heavies and that is what Dust 514 stands for.

For the Heavy Machine gun, I have a different solution, other than decreasing its' damage;

Decrease the speed of the heavy machine gun
Decrease the time it takes for the weapon to start overheating
Increase the time it takes for the weapon to cool down after the overheat.
Increase the reload time.
Increase the price of the heavy machine gun.
Increase the amount of skill points relating to the heavy machine.
Decrease the amount of damage increase bonus from the skills sheet.
Increase the PG and CPU of the heavy machine gun and its' damage bonuses from store.

There are a lot more suggestions!

Everyone makes a thread to "nerf this and nerf that", but nobody ever asks "to not nerf that or don't nerf that", but not me. This is my suggestion to "nerf" the heavy machine gun without decreasing its' damage. Please take my notes into consideration, thank you :)

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J'Jor Da'Wg KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 648	Posted - 2012.08.24 22:02:00 - [31] - Quote CCP needs to add the Laz00r Tamsen! The physical perfection of a weapon would not be discarded by our future descendents! They would keep the Tamsen alive well into the Space Age, continuing its noble tradition of OPness! Oh, wait. Its called the Creodron Breach rifle pre-e3 build.... :P
BuzzKill1 Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 1	Posted - 2012.08.24 23:57:00 - [32] - Quote fenrir storm wrote: So let me get tihs you want a heavy with a heavy machine gun to be able to get shot and take little damage whilst being able to turn like a spinning top and kill everything in a storm of fire from his multi barreled chain gun of death with no overheat for the first 20 minutes of fire . And be able to take on tanks as a bonus. Sounds fair because they are so fragile and useless at the moment. Don't forget a scope and make it IR for night battles.
Jean-Henri 30	Posted - 2012.08.25 00:29:00 - [33] - Quote Imo give every Heavy Suit another Low Power Slot. Such that Heavies really can tank for a lot longer, specifically when resistance mods come out.... Then give the HMG twice as much ammo per clip, and half again of ammo spare. This should result in heavies lasting longer, and being able to spew lead for longer. So whilst there would be no appreciable increase to DPS, almost all head to head fights within HMG range would result in the Heavy winning. Scouts would still be able to run circles and speed tank, and Heavies would be able to Effectively Armor Tank. I'd also suggest slightly reducing the movement cost penalty for Heavy Suits, but increasing the movement cost penalty for wearing Armor plates (alongside giving Heavy Suits an extra Low Power Slot). random thoughts only
Warrior of MAG Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 12	Posted - 2012.08.28 00:14:00 - [34] - Quote BuzzKill1 wrote: fenrir storm wrote: So let me get tihs you want a heavy with a heavy machine gun to be able to get shot and take little damage whilst being able to turn like a spinning top and kill everything in a storm of fire from his multi barreled chain gun of death with no overheat for the first 20 minutes of fire . And be able to take on tanks as a bonus. Sounds fair because they are so fragile and useless at the moment. Don't forget a scope and make it IR for night battles. Scopes might be a bit too much... Unless you can buy attachments seperately. Speaking of weapons, why does every single weapon in each category share only one texture?? So, the boundless heavy machine gun will look exactly like a basic heavy machine gun. If I ever save up for prototype weapons, it'll be embarassing when you reliaze your using a basic gun... just a possibility. Back to the topic, as I upgrade my weapon, my heavy machine gun is actally killing people. But that's mainly because there are a lot of new players from PS Plus joining in. The players who have already "evolved" are sometimes much more difficult to overcome, even in a 1 vs 1. Lets just hope that the weapon gets its firepower back before it's too late. Next thing, there'll be a heavy uprising.
Warrior of MAG Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 12	Posted - 2012.08.29 20:22:00 - [35] - Quote Goric Rumis wrote: Talking numbers, the HMG does no more DPS than an assault rifle. That's what doesn't seem right to me. Maybe there are attributes not listed in the weapon description that make a difference, but I don't see how it's an advantage beyond people getting freaked out by the sound and appearance of the gun itself. That's how I seem to bag most of my kills. I agree. Sometimes, it's not even that "freaky" as it's suppose to be.
Evane Sa'edi Celtic Anarchy 62	Posted - 2012.08.29 21:02:00 - [36] - Quote Warrior of MAG wrote: Goric Rumis wrote: Talking numbers, the HMG does no more DPS than an assault rifle. That's what doesn't seem right to me. Maybe there are attributes not listed in the weapon description that make a difference, but I don't see how it's an advantage beyond people getting freaked out by the sound and appearance of the gun itself. That's how I seem to bag most of my kills. I agree. Sometimes, it's not even that "freaky" as it's suppose to be. The "HMG" bullet does less damage than the AR plasma round even though it looks to be a larger bore weapon than the AR. Its speed is less than its 20th century ancestors, even the man portable ones, they had RoF between 2000 to 6000 rounds/min. The rotary barrel design is used because it can fire high numbers of rounds WITHOUT EXCESSIVE HEAT BUILD UP, it should be able to burn through an entire 300 round clip and not over heat. It does not fire high veloicty rounds, so where is the heat generated?? Why is the clip so small? it would be better to have a clip at minimum 50% larger. Why is the damage so low for a weapon of its type? It should be equivalant of any AR round. How much power/energy is 1HP equivalent to? round sizemass of projectilespeed of round=energy release at point of impact what is the range of the weapon? what is the distance of maximum range? What type of round is fired?
Ignatius Crumwald Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 475	Posted - 2012.08.29 22:20:00 - [37] - Quote I have to admit the HMG is much better this build than the complete emasculation they got last build, but I still prefer the high damage/low range version as it sort of kept heavies in their "place". I'd like the variants on the HMG to be: Breach: Moderate damage, lower rate of fire, no heat-up, high accuracy, mid range - Basically there to be sustained fire Assault: (standard): Highest damage per shot, Low range, moderate heat-up/cooldown - Area denial, anti-siege. Tactical: Moderate damage, Longest range, highest accuracy, faster heat-up/fastest cooldown. Open area support. Burst: High damage per shot, Highest rate of fire, High accuracy, Long range, fastest heatup/Slowest cooldown - give user control over length of burst for the love of god - Anti-heavy infantry.
pjwarrior long D3LTA FORC3 Orion Empire 17	Posted - 2012.08.29 22:49:00 - [38] - Quote fred orpaul wrote: Agreed heavys are so slow their only advantage is ridiculous power. I should not be able to repeatedly **** heavys as a scout(I play as a scout not as a heavy. people worry too much about the gun game which leads to boring repetitive game play based on leveling as fast as possible to get an edge instead of creative tactics. You shouldn't be able to out gun game a heavy. You should have to out number, out wit, or out maneuver them, or the class is useless. +1 i agree... frankly, im afraid to invest in a heavy because last time i tried it (before precoursor patch) it was to easy to kill.
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.08.29 22:52:00 - [39] - Quote +1 Warrior of MAG has been a player to fear until this build. Now he's just some fat bloke looking like a free kill, kinda like all heavies once their team go running off... Props to Warrior of MAG for being one of the scary players :D Edit: fix the forge gun should be the next campaign
Warrior of MAG Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 12	Posted - 2012.09.01 18:34:00 - [40] - Quote Tony Calif wrote: +1 Warrior of MAG has been a player to fear until this build. Now he's just some fat bloke looking like a free kill, kinda like all heavies once their team go running off... Props to Warrior of MAG for being one of the scary players :D Edit: fix the forge gun should be the next campaign Lol, Hey Tony. For some reason, I can't forget that name of yours; "Tony Calif". Whenever I join a match, that's the first name I see. Hehe And sometimes, when all of your team is in one corner and you manage to go behind the enemy, you would've cornered the enemies by an unexpecting heavy ninja strike xD But sometimes, my machine gun has to concentrate on one guy, then the enemies are like "Who's shooting". It's funny. I try to stick around with my teammates though. By the way, did anybody notice that the armour points for the heavies have been decreased greatly? Might be a glitch, but if it's true, first they nerf the heavy machine gun, then the breach aresenal and now the heavy armours?? Last time I looked at it, the armour was like 650 or something for all three types of heavy dropsuits... How much more underpowered can it get?

Shadows Maker Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 129	Posted - 2012.09.01 19:09:00 - [41] - Quote lol the HMG is a joke am not a heavy but i feel sorry for my corp mates who specialize in the heavy suit. i remember in the 2nd build the HMG stroke fear on me everytime i saw one i had to think twice before engaging a heavy with HMG but now i chase after and play around them.
WARSLAVEs Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 15	Posted - 2012.09.01 19:14:00 - [42] - Quote HowDidThatTaste wrote: The turning speed negates the suits advantage which is supposed to be its armor. A guy can put a whole clip in us as we turn around 180 degrees. I'm sure the thought was balance but this negates the whole reason to have a heavy suit. Increase turn speed! I shouldn't be owned by somebody just because he is behind me and I don't get a chance to even see who is shooting me before I'm dead. actually yes that is how it should be if you are caught from behind you should have little to no chance of living and that should go for every class.
mcbob mcbob 10	Posted - 2012.09.01 22:20:00 - [43] - Quote Viice-Raye Vinarii wrote: +1 I totally agree the heavy machine should be deadly, besides being a heavy there's a speed restriction already right ? I do like how in MAG each faction had there own weapons, it made each faction stand out and play different from each other, the whole nerfed thing came from feeble players tired of getting owned , its just stupid and developers should just look the other way. People seem to have found a way to get around the low speed- they drive around in LAVs, jump out, kill someone, and jump back in.
kalahari ilkeston Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 51	Posted - 2012.09.02 05:22:00 - [44] - Quote Heavy should own at short range Scout should own at long range Assault should fill in the middle
Warrior of MAG Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 12	Posted - 2012.09.13 17:33:00 - [45] - Quote kalahari ilkeston wrote: Heavy should own at short range Scout should own at long range Assault should fill in the middle Exactly that. Everybody should have their own advantages and disadvantages. If what you say gets implemented, then the matches will be more "balanced." Remember people, heavies can't chase you, but you can run away and try to flank them. That's no excuse for the low turning speed though. Increase the sensitivity! The power and the armour are already low.
Trollolol man Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 7	Posted - 2012.09.13 20:40:00 - [46] - Quote -100000000000
Evane Sa'edi Celtic Anarchy 62	Posted - 2012.09.20 19:28:00 - [47] - Quote Where is the balance of the HMG when at close range the Assault rifle out shoots a HMG. HMG rounds should be based on the Assault rifle round of the same size. Modern HMG weapons today use a modified rifle round (slightly more power). HMG is an area suppression weapon, if you hear it you should keep your head down.
Gcember Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 123	Posted - 2012.09.20 19:31:00 - [48] - Quote Warrior of MAG wrote: The Heavy Machine gun is suppose to be deadly and something players should fear once in contact with. The Keyboard and Mouse support have made the heavies the most vulnerable yet. Nobody fears the gun like they should. MAG had a similar faith back in the days... SVER (one of the three factions) was dominiating MAG. In MAG, the weapons were only restricted into each faction. So a non-SVER player couldn't use a SVER weapon by default. Each faction use to have their own home map, which they only defend. There were a lot of players just complaining and complaining about how SVER was overpowered, SVER had better maps, SVER had better equipments and so on. In the end, Zipper made the worst decision possible and decided to decrease the firepower of all the weapons by a great gap. What happened after this? Everyone started to leave. Zipper nerfed the guns, but they never gave the firepower back? Probably, even the players who asked for the nerf left... Of course, Dust 514 is only a beta and CCP have never developed a first person shooter before, so there is nobody to blame. People who will kill it for us will probably look for a new weapon to say "this is overpowered" and "that is overpowered". Wait a minute... the breach assualt rifles have also decreased in damage! What next?? I'm saying if CCP wants to attract MAG SVER players or former SVER players, I advised bring the firepower back. Teammwork will be required to take down heavies and that is what Dust 514 stands for. For the Heavy Machine gun, I have a different solution, other than decreasing its' damage; Decrease the speed of the heavy machine gun Decrease the time it takes for the weapon to start overheating Increase the time it takes for the weapon to cool down after the overheat. Increase the reload time. Increase the price of the heavy machine gun. Increase the amount of skill points relating to the heavy machine. Decrease the amount of damage increase bonus from the skills sheet. Increase the PG and CPU of the heavy machine gun and its' damage bonuses from store. There are a lot more suggestions! Everyone makes a thread to "nerf this and nerf that", but nobody ever asks "to not nerf that or don't nerf that", but not me. This is my suggestion to "nerf" the heavy machine gun without decreasing its' damage. Please take my notes into consideration, thank you :) 1+ Yep, the machine gun is not strong enough and it is very very hard to control when using it, you will find yourself spraying the ground in most cases instead of the enemies. Therefore the speed must be decreased in my opinion, or maybe they could make some sort of Breach HMG?
immortal ironhide SyNergy Gaming 80	Posted - 2012.09.20 19:42:00 - [49] - Quote hmg is fine as is. i can constantly **** people with it. just not useful on every map, mostly the large maps it is terrible on. get in a game in a compound and pull out the hmg. this is where its best. tight quarters = hmg fun. if you lost to an ar in a very close range then either a) get good and learn to aim(not very hard) b) had another gy shooting at you that you didnt know about c) you were standing still while he was strafing. heavies cant move much but any little side to side is useful. only have hmg operation trained to lvl 3...cant imagine how god mode it is once i get that to level 5
Vrain Matari ZionTCD Legacy Rising 404	Posted - 2012.09.20 23:45:00 - [50] - Quote When the squad-locking glitch hit I decided to hop on another toon and try the heavy. I tried it before for about 10 minutes until the slug-like speed made me feel claustrophobic and I quit. Anyway, this time around I decided to tough it out to try and develop a reasonable opinion on heavies. It's a different playstyle for sure from assault, but it's growing on me. Best games so far have been 12-3, 9-0, etc. The thing I want to add to the thread is prolly about lag/hit detection, I don't know which and I'm f****** sick to death of thinking about it. But I've had experiences where when everything is working right re lag/hits, the HMG absolutely rapes assault and heavy suits. In those moments one begins to get a little of that godlike feeling =). Other times, nothing. Also, projectiles struggle with shields but chew through armor, so flux grenades are a HMG heavy's best friend.

Warrior of MAG Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 12	Posted - 2012.10.13 11:58:00 - [51] - Quote immortal ironhide wrote: if you lost to an ar in a very close range then either a) get good and learn to aim(not very hard) b) had another gy shooting at you that you didnt know about c) you were standing still while he was strafing. heavies cant move much but any little side to side is useful. Good aim? Hardcore players can't play as good as they can with so-called "balancing" issue with a low turn speed. My accuraccy is like 85% (I'll say), but in my last matches, someone with an assualt rifle in a assualt dropsuit owned me, even though we fired at each other at exactly same time and we didn't miss each other. He killed me in like 0.4 seconds when I wasted between 1/2 and 3/4 of his hp...? A combination of the nerfed heavy machine gun and armour means you're just a free kills. But, the heavy machine gun has been slightly improved, but not the damage stat though. Currently, it's 16. Increase it to 21 and everything will come back to the way it was :)
Vickers S Grunt Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 67	Posted - 2012.10.13 13:02:00 - [52] - Quote The HMG is a beast even in the last build it was good in this build it is a god like weapon of mass destruction . No one mortal can defeat this multi-barreled spewer of lead. Just w8 till u see triple damage mod proto hmgs cutting down suits like chaff. But yeah please buy all means make it MORE powerful .


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