DUST Search - Turn Speed

Garrett Blacknova wrote:

I'm sorry... I was just waking up when I posted that, and not taking myself too seriously.

Good answer though.

I wanted turn speed increased slightly in the last build - not too much, but a little. I still want that. Same goes for strafe speed, but again, not too much.

Back to arguing in favour of the turn speed realism though, just because your leg weight specifically isn't that full amount, doesn't mean that the entire weight of your suit won't be directing itself, to some extent, onto your legs. It's basic physics that the lower body supports the weight of the rest, and with an armoured suit that functions as a single entity, that weight will all be connected directly to the parts that ARE strapped to your legs, which is what prompted my comment. The whole suit of armour is (at least indirectly) attached to your legs. And yes, it would be powered, but it would probably still impede your movement by a noticeable amount.

And you also have to consider that you're turning WHILE HOLDING AIM WITH YOUR WEAPON, which also makes a difference.

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Veigar Mordekaiser Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 676	Posted - 2012.08.18 07:30:00 - [1] - Quote I thought turn speed was just bad on KBM, but holy ****! Did they turn it down like 50% in Precursor? Let me just take 5 seconds to turn around when you shoot me from behind - hope I'm still alive by the time you're even on my screen. The dead zones don't help. Right now, there is no good control option for Dust. I've been complaining about how terrible KBM is for a bit, but the DS3 controls are really just as bad. Not in the sense that they're inferior, or that I don't prefer them, but in the sense that they just plain suck. Dead zones are horrible, turn speed is WAY to low, and we need the option to remap buttons - default setups are never everyone's favorite. In short, fix the damn DS3 controls, before the KBM ones - otherwise KBM really will dominate without equal, as much as I hate to say it.
Icy Tiger 496	Posted - 2012.08.18 09:15:00 - [2] - Quote Turn the x and y axis to 50. Should help.
Arwen Bochs Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 25	Posted - 2012.08.18 18:50:00 - [3] - Quote I agree with OP, you can't really track targets with deadzones like these. At least get rid of the deadzones while zoomed in.
Kyy Seiska Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 188	Posted - 2012.08.18 21:21:00 - [4] - Quote Isn't the turn speed related somehow on the armor you're wearing? At least in last build my heavy felt like it turned way slower than my assault.
Ten-Sidhe Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 414	Posted - 2012.08.18 23:15:00 - [5] - Quote yea, heavies turn slower then other suits, weapon choice and if zoomed or charging weapon also affect turn. Fast suits are ment to be able to circle to stay in slow suits blindspot, at close range, the longer the range the faster you have to be to stay in blindspot. Dev blog gave example of scout killing hmg by circling it faster then it could turn, have to almost be in knife range to do it though. This is a whole school of tanking in EvE, fast frigs will fit no shield or armour to fly faster to outrun the turn speed of turrets and fly faster then missiles can chase. Dust doesn't go to that extreme.
Ignatius Crumwald Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 475	Posted - 2012.08.18 23:56:00 - [6] - Quote Assault turns much slower than last build. You can barely track a sprinting Scout at 10-15 meters. Abandon the KB/M idea and just balance DS3. Tweek all you want, no one is going to be happy either. This crap is going to be dogging the game for eons.
Veigar Mordekaiser Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 676	Posted - 2012.08.19 00:19:00 - [7] - Quote Icy Tiger wrote: Turn the x and y axis to 50. Should help. Are you kidding? I have them set to 100. Ignatius, they should not abandon KBM, as they promised us that it would control just as well as any other PC shooter - (paraphrased) David Reid. They should however, fix the DS3 before they fix KBM.
Ignatius Crumwald Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 475	Posted - 2012.08.19 00:39:00 - [8] - Quote Veigar Mordekaiser wrote: Icy Tiger wrote: Turn the x and y axis to 50. Should help. Are you kidding? I have them set to 100. Ignatius, they should not abandon KBM, as they promised us that it would control just as well as any other PC shooter - (paraphrased) David Reid. They should however, fix the DS3 before they fix KBM. They "liedGäó". Reid likely promised to same thing back when he was involved with cross platform Shadowrun - Though not his fault, that turned out exactly how this will turn out.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.08.19 01:25:00 - [9] - Quote Something I've found interesting with the sixaxis controller. The deadzone is altered by the deadzone settings on the Move screen. Similarly, Mouse inversion is affected by the inverted settings on the Sixaxis controller screen. I THINK all the functions are actually interconnected and the different control schemes are just the same functions with different layouts - kind of disappointing, really. So go to the Move screen, and turn your deadzone way down, it will probably help with the mouse control deadzone as well. If they HAVE to do things this way, they should allow us to track the deadzone setting down to an ACTUAL zero deadzone, so that players without Move can have competent control functionality. Another "major problem" with KB+M control is that it's limited to the same turning rates as the sixaxis controller - which is a PERFECTLY LEGITIMATE BALANCING MECHANISM. It's been done in PC FPS games before, and while it's unfamiliar and different, it's NOT bad. It's good. It takes some getting used to how the controls handle in comparison with "normal" KB+M controls, but if you're willing to accept that limitation (which is REQUIRED if you want to be on an even playing field against sixaxis controllers) and learn to work WITH it instead of AGAINST it, you can get just as much speed as the guys using controllers, but with the extra precision of mouse control.
Sol Fire-Song 2	Posted - 2012.08.19 01:47:00 - [10] - Quote having rolled a heavy again (first character was a heavy), away from a scout, I noticed the turn speed difference this time!!! TBH, it didnt feel unrealistic, and switching to an Assault suit sped thingsup a bit, but really i just wanted the survivability of the heavy, so I was happy to put up with scouts buzzing around me, having played scout predominately I feel comfortable with their tactics, knowing how squishy they are. off topic= but damn was the lag or hit detection screwy!! using a HMG at 2-5 metres and not being able to hit stuff is annoying. Sorry for the OT but srsly, hit detection fix plox! Back On Topic= if people want more responsive controls i can understand, I can really, but please don't make DUST into another silly FPS where we can spin 180deg in 0.003 of a sec ... to me that sort of mechanic belongs in old school shooters.....((( IMHO )))

Thirteeeen Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 2	Posted - 2012.08.19 02:34:00 - [11] - Quote rocking my look speed at 100% assault class and its way to slow seems even slower after the patch almost impossible to hit moving targets now speed me up lol
Veigar Mordekaiser Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 676	Posted - 2012.08.19 02:42:00 - [12] - Quote For anyone that feels the turn speed is "realistic" I have an experiment for you. Get a 40lb bag of salt or two, and see if it takes you 5 seconds to turn 180 degrees.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.08.19 02:59:00 - [13] - Quote Veigar Mordekaiser wrote: For anyone that feels the turn speed is "realistic" I have an experiment for you. Get a 40lb bag of salt or two, and see if it takes you 5 seconds to turn 180 degrees. Now tie them to your legs, and try again.
Veigar Mordekaiser Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 676	Posted - 2012.08.19 08:13:00 - [14] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Veigar Mordekaiser wrote: For anyone that feels the turn speed is "realistic" I have an experiment for you. Get a 40lb bag of salt or two, and see if it takes you 5 seconds to turn 180 degrees. Now tie them to your legs, and try again. I'm going to go ahead and doubt that the leg plating weighs 40-80 pounds. But, if it does, I'm going to guess it would require some sort of hydraulic system to move, which in turn could be tossed back at you to undermine your point. The weapon is most likely the heaviest single part of the dropsuit. Edit: I bet if you asked anyone in the military if the turn speed in Dust seemed realistic, they would probably tell you no.
Veigar Mordekaiser Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 676	Posted - 2012.08.19 08:20:00 - [15] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Something I've found interesting with the sixaxis controller. The deadzone is altered by the deadzone settings on the Move screen. Similarly, Mouse inversion is affected by the inverted settings on the Sixaxis controller screen. I THINK all the functions are actually interconnected and the different control schemes are just the same functions with different layouts - kind of disappointing, really. I'm going to have to test this out - if this is the case, at least we have a momentary fix available.
Raynor Ragna 266	Posted - 2012.08.19 08:34:00 - [16] - Quote Report you thoughts on what you experience. CCP will read it, take it into consideration, and try to improve it. KBM on console is pretty well untouched so they have lots of tinkering to do.
Veigar Mordekaiser Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 676	Posted - 2012.08.19 11:31:00 - [17] - Quote Raynor Ragna wrote: Report you thoughts on what you experience. CCP will read it, take it into consideration, and try to improve it. KBM on console is pretty well untouched so they have lots of tinkering to do. Didn't seem to make a noticeable difference for me.
xxBIG DIRTYxx 19	Posted - 2012.08.19 11:58:00 - [18] - Quote Aim assist seems to tighten the deadzone for me. As to turn speed, default in last build was 60, now its 30. One can turn it up like previously mentioned... As for 'realistic' turn speed, as a former Marine infantryman in full battle gear, I was no ballerina, LOL!
Dewie Cheecham Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 677	Posted - 2012.08.19 12:08:00 - [19] - Quote Turret turn speeds is lethargic to say the least, especially the large. I dread the day I finally get my tank, and is targeted from behind. If the fixed railgun turrets are any indication It'll take me 30 seconds to do a 180.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.08.19 13:45:00 - [20] - Quote Veigar Mordekaiser wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Veigar Mordekaiser wrote: For anyone that feels the turn speed is "realistic" I have an experiment for you. Get a 40lb bag of salt or two, and see if it takes you 5 seconds to turn 180 degrees. Now tie them to your legs, and try again. I'm going to go ahead and doubt that the leg plating weighs 40-80 pounds. But, if it does, I'm going to guess it would require some sort of hydraulic system to move, which in turn could be tossed back at you to undermine your point. The weapon is most likely the heaviest single part of the dropsuit. Edit: I bet if you asked anyone in the military if the turn speed in Dust seemed realistic, they would probably tell you no. I'm sorry... I was just waking up when I posted that, and not taking myself too seriously. Good answer though. I wanted turn speed increased slightly in the last build - not too much, but a little. I still want that. Same goes for strafe speed, but again, not too much. Back to arguing in favour of the turn speed realism though, just because your leg weight specifically isn't that full amount, doesn't mean that the entire weight of your suit won't be directing itself, to some extent, onto your legs. It's basic physics that the lower body supports the weight of the rest, and with an armoured suit that functions as a single entity, that weight will all be connected directly to the parts that ARE strapped to your legs, which is what prompted my comment. The whole suit of armour is (at least indirectly) attached to your legs. And yes, it would be powered, but it would probably still impede your movement by a noticeable amount. And you also have to consider that you're turning WHILE HOLDING AIM WITH YOUR WEAPON, which also makes a difference.

MrFancyMonocle Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 6	Posted - 2012.08.19 17:36:00 - [21] - Quote Yeah, I have a scout suit and the area needed to turn around is larger than my mouse pad, feels like I'm playing with a trackball I'm lifting my hand up so much...I don't even want to know what heavy feels like.
Abner Kalen Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 100	Posted - 2012.08.19 17:49:00 - [22] - Quote Ten-Sidhe wrote: yea, heavies turn slower then other suits, weapon choice and if zoomed or charging weapon also affect turn. Fast suits are ment to be able to circle to stay in slow suits blindspot, at close range, the longer the range the faster you have to be to stay in blindspot. Dev blog gave example of scout killing hmg by circling it faster then it could turn, have to almost be in knife range to do it though. This is a whole school of tanking in EvE, fast frigs will fit no shield or armour to fly faster to outrun the turn speed of turrets and fly faster then missiles can chase. Dust doesn't go to that extreme. Wait, a Scout shouldn't be killing anything at close range. If there's a devblog saying Scouts should be allowed to circle someone and kill them with papercuts..... that is probably the stupidest gameplay idea I've ever heard. Is CCP Zulu working on Dust now???
faife dot Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1	Posted - 2012.08.19 18:28:00 - [23] - Quote Abner Kalen wrote: Wait, a Scout shouldn't be killing anything at close range. If there's a devblog saying Scouts should be allowed to circle someone and kill them with papercuts..... that is probably the stupidest gameplay idea I've ever heard. Is CCP Zulu working on Dust now??? welcome to FPSes developed since 95. fast classes circle strafe slow classes. we hope you enjoy your stay.
DRT33th Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 1	Posted - 2012.08.19 20:01:00 - [24] - Quote Veigar Mordekaiser wrote: Edit: I bet if you asked anyone in the military if the turn speed in Dust seemed realistic, they would probably tell you no. Not even close. Fear, adrenaline and training do wonders I guess.
Veigar Mordekaiser Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 676	Posted - 2012.08.20 05:46:00 - [25] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: I'm sorry... I was just waking up when I posted that, and not taking myself too seriously. Good answer though. I wanted turn speed increased slightly in the last build - not too much, but a little. I still want that. Same goes for strafe speed, but again, not too much. Back to arguing in favour of the turn speed realism though, just because your leg weight specifically isn't that full amount, doesn't mean that the entire weight of your suit won't be directing itself, to some extent, onto your legs. It's basic physics that the lower body supports the weight of the rest, and with an armoured suit that functions as a single entity, that weight will all be connected directly to the parts that ARE strapped to your legs, which is what prompted my comment. The whole suit of armour is (at least indirectly) attached to your legs. And yes, it would be powered, but it would probably still impede your movement by a noticeable amount. And you also have to consider that you're turning WHILE HOLDING AIM WITH YOUR WEAPON, which also makes a difference. The thing is, when you have 50 pounds on your shoulders, that weight is spread out between every supporting joint and muscle in your body down to your feet, and will not -badly- impede movement. However, attach those 50 pounds to your calf, and suddenly there are only a couple joints and very few muscles supporting that weight and it will become much harder to move. Think of when you were younger, did you ever grab on to your fathers legs and see how hard it was for him to walk, when he could carry you on his shoulders as though you weren't there? The suits probably weigh 100lbs or more, but with the logic I just explained, paired with hydraulic support systems, it shouldn't make THAT much of a difference. I mean, if a marine can move effectively, why can't a merc? Also - you aren't always holding aim with your gun, you're holding it at your hip; FPS games just default hipfire to the center of the screen for the sake of convenience.
Veigar Mordekaiser Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 676	Posted - 2012.08.20 05:46:00 - [26] - Quote DRT33th wrote: Veigar Mordekaiser wrote: Edit: I bet if you asked anyone in the military if the turn speed in Dust seemed realistic, they would probably tell you no. Not even close. Fear, adrenaline and training do wonders I guess. Not sure if this is an argument or an agreement....
Indy Strizer Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 52	Posted - 2012.08.20 09:34:00 - [27] - Quote The deadzones/acceleration are terrible, I agree... Makes aiming down sight feel terrible... I'd really love it if CCP fixed this... Also- I personally don't have an issue with the turn speeds, I actually like the idea for the most part.
DRT33th Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 1	Posted - 2012.08.20 14:59:00 - [28] - Quote Veigar Mordekaiser wrote: DRT33th wrote: Veigar Mordekaiser wrote: Edit: I bet if you asked anyone in the military if the turn speed in Dust seemed realistic, they would probably tell you no. Not even close. Fear, adrenaline and training do wonders I guess. Not sure if this is an argument or an agreement.... It's an agreement.
Veigar Mordekaiser Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 676	Posted - 2012.08.20 22:35:00 - [29] - Quote Indy Strizer wrote: The deadzones/acceleration are terrible, I agree... Makes aiming down sight feel terrible... I'd really love it if CCP fixed this... Also- I personally don't have an issue with the turn speeds, I actually like the idea for the most part. It's not exactly a -bad- idea, it just makes the gameplay feel very restricted. In real life, your turn speed is based on how fast you can move your body - some of us are probably significantly faster than others (not myself probably). However, in Dust, turn speed is set to X and thats all there is to it. Sure some items weigh more than others and that has some minor effect on it, but it doesn't make that much of a difference. Assault class suits BARELY turn faster than heavies, and I have yet to try a scout. DRT33th wrote: It's an agreement. Alright awesome.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.08.20 23:02:00 - [30] - Quote Indy Strizer wrote: The deadzones/acceleration are terrible, I agree... Makes aiming down sight feel terrible... I'd really love it if CCP fixed this... Also- I personally don't have an issue with the turn speeds, I actually like the idea for the most part. At least for deadzone, that IS adjustable. Scale the Move deadzone down to 0, and it heavily reduces mouse AND sixaxis deadzones as well.



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