DUST Search - Tanks Are (not) Over-Powered

Super Cargo wrote:

Aeon Amadi wrote:

At least you would be agreeing with the 168 tank-crews who died at the hands of Feldwebel Kurt Knispel - the top scoring ace for the German 12th Panzer Division/503rd Heavy Panzer Battalion.

Yanno - because tanks actually do kill people and generally survive a pretty hefty amount of fire.

While we're on the subject, another German ace commander, Michael Whittmann, was killed - not directly by enemy fire - but by his own tank's ammunition exploding inside the tank itself.

Considering the time and effort one has to put into HAVs, as well as the associated skills to fit weaponry/armor/shields/etc, it's entirely plausible that they should be vastly superior fighting weapons. Honestly, look in the mirror and ask yourself, does my Gauss Rifle honestly have the capabilities to inflict physical harm on a TANK made of science fiction materials that I will never see in my lifetime?

I can't wait to see the "Orbital Strikes are OP" threads on August 21st. Seriously, if you think slow moving war machines are over-powered just wait until giant light posts are being fired down from the heavens because Squad Alpha of the enemy team were granted one for being objective-based.

Really. I'm not entirely sure how this is even an issue - what did you EXPECT to occur from a knife fight with a 60-ton weapon of (major) destruction?

Tanks have a definite and necessary purpose, but it doesn't take any skill to use them, just time.

The issue really seems to be a lack of players speccing into AV skills or using rocket launchers. As a result, tanks run rampant.

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LISA MICHELLE WARRIORS 74	Posted - 2012.08.12 00:28:00 - [91] - Quote Sha Kharn Clone wrote: Kira Lannister wrote: Sha Kharn Clone wrote: I dont think thats to much to ask and it lets 4 guys in on the action. Woah. What if your turrets touch? Your right I havent thought this thu at all /sadface LOL
Legolas Winterbane 4	Posted - 2012.08.12 00:56:00 - [92] - Quote Since when does FPS mean foot soldier only?
Surtur Reaperson Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 49	Posted - 2012.08.12 01:23:00 - [93] - Quote FrierTheChosenOne wrote: lmao, these guys have no idea. CCP should really reconsider their catering to eve players and start listening to ps3 fps players. This game won't stay a float and die within months if you can't attract the ps3 fps community FACT. Exactly, worst of all the fpsers who want this game to soceed are the ones that are getting more fed up and frustrated by the day.
Debacle Nano Shadow Company HQ 639	Posted - 2012.08.12 01:23:00 - [94] - Quote xprotoman23 wrote: Lurchasaurus wrote: xprotoman23 wrote: When you can spec into godly tanks faster than you can get proto dropsuits I beg to differ. get your head out of the ground. speccing for a proto dropsuit fit doesnt and will never need as much investment as a HAV. 4.6 million invested into dropsuit command vs 2.3 million invested into Vehicle command Actually, dropsuits only have a 8x multiplier while HAV's have a 12x multiplier. It costs 1.3 million SP to get to level 3 in Gallente HAV, while it costs only 901k SP to get to level 3 dropsuit.
xprotoman23 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 1452	Posted - 2012.08.12 02:22:00 - [95] - Quote Debacle Nano wrote: xprotoman23 wrote: Lurchasaurus wrote: xprotoman23 wrote: When you can spec into godly tanks faster than you can get proto dropsuits I beg to differ. get your head out of the ground. speccing for a proto dropsuit fit doesnt and will never need as much investment as a HAV. 4.6 million invested into dropsuit command vs 2.3 million invested into Vehicle command Actually, dropsuits only have a 8x multiplier while HAV's have a 12x multiplier. It costs 1.3 million SP to get to level 3 in Gallente HAV, while it costs only 901k SP to get to level 3 dropsuit. Caldari HAV (12x) 1,351,680 = sagaris Gallente HAV (12X) 1,341,680 = surya ________________________________ Caldari Assault (8x) 4,096,000= Proto assault
Avenger 245 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 477	Posted - 2012.08.12 02:37:00 - [96] - Quote Tanks are great right now they are a few tons of near unstoppable warmachine are they supposed to be made of paper or somethings its a tank even the surya withs its 1.5 damage mdoifer is balanced with being less "tank" amd more gun vs the sig which is balanced between firepower and armor. Besides tanks should require team work to take down two forge guns or maybe a forge and a swarm or hey a logi with webifer and a heavy with a forge some assaults covering them tanks wont last long.
Lurchasaurus SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 808	Posted - 2012.08.12 03:08:00 - [97] - Quote xprotoman23 wrote: Debacle Nano wrote: xprotoman23 wrote: Lurchasaurus wrote: xprotoman23 wrote: When you can spec into godly tanks faster than you can get proto dropsuits I beg to differ. get your head out of the ground. speccing for a proto dropsuit fit doesnt and will never need as much investment as a HAV. 4.6 million invested into dropsuit command vs 2.3 million invested into Vehicle command Actually, dropsuits only have a 8x multiplier while HAV's have a 12x multiplier. It costs 1.3 million SP to get to level 3 in Gallente HAV, while it costs only 901k SP to get to level 3 dropsuit. Caldari HAV (12x) 1,351,680 = sagaris Gallente HAV (12X) 1,341,680 = surya ________________________________ Caldari Assault (8x) 4,096,000= Proto assault your going to compare lvl 3 HAV to level 5 assault dropsuit? lol
Aighun Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 666	Posted - 2012.08.12 03:40:00 - [98] - Quote xprotoman23 wrote: xprotoman23 wrote: when you can put up 80-100 kills with little effort or when your teams getting redlined and you can just roll around the map doing whatever you want I beg to differ. When you can spec into godly tanks faster than you can get proto dropsuits I beg to differ. When your SP gain almost doubles when in a tank vs on the ground i beg to differ. I wish I could like my own posts It looks like you just did? Is it a bad thing that I agreed with both Proto and the OP and gave them both likes on their differing opinions? I don't think they are OP for what they do in game. But it is disheartening that they are less of a pain to spec for than a proto dropsuit. I agree that they should be the most OP weapon on the field of battle (until we get MTACs) But they should also be the most costly and take a hell of a lot of effort to skill up. I have raged against tanks and the players that call them onto the field and also had a lot of fun chasing around tanks with a few like minded players in my crappy anti vehicle dropsuit loadout. In the end it really depends on the team balance.
DAVEMINDTHAT SQUAREBUTTON 5	Posted - 2012.08.12 03:52:00 - [99] - Quote Legolas Winterbane wrote: Since when does FPS mean foot soldier only? It doesn't. It means, Fagsintanks Pawning Spawnagain
Debacle Nano Shadow Company HQ 639	Posted - 2012.08.12 04:10:00 - [100] - Quote xprotoman23 wrote: Debacle Nano wrote: xprotoman23 wrote: Lurchasaurus wrote: xprotoman23 wrote: When you can spec into godly tanks faster than you can get proto dropsuits I beg to differ. get your head out of the ground. speccing for a proto dropsuit fit doesnt and will never need as much investment as a HAV. 4.6 million invested into dropsuit command vs 2.3 million invested into Vehicle command Actually, dropsuits only have a 8x multiplier while HAV's have a 12x multiplier. It costs 1.3 million SP to get to level 3 in Gallente HAV, while it costs only 901k SP to get to level 3 dropsuit. Caldari HAV (12x) 1,351,680 = sagaris Gallente HAV (12X) 1,341,680 = surya ________________________________ Caldari Assault (8x) 4,096,000= Proto assault You are forgetting. Marauders aren't anything special. We are getting higher tier tanks at which we will get at level 5 HAV.

Super Cargo Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 428	Posted - 2012.08.12 04:52:00 - [101] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: At least you would be agreeing with the 168 tank-crews who died at the hands of Feldwebel Kurt Knispel - the top scoring ace for the German 12th Panzer Division/503rd Heavy Panzer Battalion. Yanno - because tanks actually do kill people and generally survive a pretty hefty amount of fire. While we're on the subject, another German ace commander, Michael Whittmann, was killed - not directly by enemy fire - but by his own tank's ammunition exploding inside the tank itself. Considering the time and effort one has to put into HAVs, as well as the associated skills to fit weaponry/armor/shields/etc, it's entirely plausible that they should be vastly superior fighting weapons. Honestly, look in the mirror and ask yourself, does my Gauss Rifle honestly have the capabilities to inflict physical harm on a TANK made of science fiction materials that I will never see in my lifetime? I can't wait to see the "Orbital Strikes are OP" threads on August 21st. Seriously, if you think slow moving war machines are over-powered just wait until giant light posts are being fired down from the heavens because Squad Alpha of the enemy team were granted one for being objective-based. Really. I'm not entirely sure how this is even an issue - what did you EXPECT to occur from a knife fight with a 60-ton weapon of (major) destruction? Tanks have a definite and necessary purpose, but it doesn't take any skill to use them, just time. The issue really seems to be a lack of players speccing into AV skills or using rocket launchers. As a result, tanks run rampant.
Lurchasaurus SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 808	Posted - 2012.08.12 04:57:00 - [102] - Quote Super Cargo wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: At least you would be agreeing with the 168 tank-crews who died at the hands of Feldwebel Kurt Knispel - the top scoring ace for the German 12th Panzer Division/503rd Heavy Panzer Battalion. Yanno - because tanks actually do kill people and generally survive a pretty hefty amount of fire. While we're on the subject, another German ace commander, Michael Whittmann, was killed - not directly by enemy fire - but by his own tank's ammunition exploding inside the tank itself. Considering the time and effort one has to put into HAVs, as well as the associated skills to fit weaponry/armor/shields/etc, it's entirely plausible that they should be vastly superior fighting weapons. Honestly, look in the mirror and ask yourself, does my Gauss Rifle honestly have the capabilities to inflict physical harm on a TANK made of science fiction materials that I will never see in my lifetime? I can't wait to see the "Orbital Strikes are OP" threads on August 21st. Seriously, if you think slow moving war machines are over-powered just wait until giant light posts are being fired down from the heavens because Squad Alpha of the enemy team were granted one for being objective-based. Really. I'm not entirely sure how this is even an issue - what did you EXPECT to occur from a knife fight with a 60-ton weapon of (major) destruction? Tanks have a definite and necessary purpose, but it doesn't take any skill to use them, just time. The issue really seems to be a lack of players speccing into AV skills or using rocket launchers. As a result, tanks run rampant. sigh.......honestly? tanks do require skills to use. There arent that many people with those skills tho and they die a lot and go broke. When you are unfortunate enough to play against a great driver tho, they are pretty hard to fight. Its the encounters with those good drivers that makes people QQ on the forums. No one calls the top AR guys scrubs or says they are OP tho lol. its all pretty hypocritical. tank driving skill incorporates more than just pointing and clicking. Thats why im called a tank driver and not a tank shooter. The guys who only know how to zerg rush with a tank might take a guy or two, but theyll die pretty quickly and lose monies.
Sniper no Sniping Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 21	Posted - 2012.08.12 05:10:00 - [103] - Quote ALM1GHTY STATIUS wrote: Debacle Nano wrote: ALM1GHTY STATIUS wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Ah, look who finally decided to join and put in their blatantly falsified information. Seriously, mates, if you're so butt-hurt about do what you said you were going to do and leave..! You're the -only ones- complaining that Tanks are over-powered while the rest of us are still thinking that they're -under powered- by comparison to the hulking sky masses in space. You realize how long it takes to down a Titan? Hours. Yet, for some reason, you're clamoring for reform over the fact that you didn't spec for an anti-vehicular role and can't remove the situation by non-conventional means. It's truly amusing. I will say this as many times as it takes FIND A DIFFERENT GAME quit ruining our game genre Too bad it's not yours. FPS is ours, eve is yours, you can go back to your futuristic real life simulator. This is much more than a FPS like what you are calling ours, we never played a game like this. This game is a MMORTSFPSRPG Which is a Massive Multiplayer Online, Real-Time First Person Shooter, Role Playing Game. So, no this is not our game genre, its much different.
Lurchasaurus SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 808	Posted - 2012.08.12 05:14:00 - [104] - Quote ALM1GHTY STATIUS wrote: Debacle Nano wrote: ALM1GHTY STATIUS wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Ah, look who finally decided to join and put in their blatantly falsified information. Seriously, mates, if you're so butt-hurt about do what you said you were going to do and leave..! You're the -only ones- complaining that Tanks are over-powered while the rest of us are still thinking that they're -under powered- by comparison to the hulking sky masses in space. You realize how long it takes to down a Titan? Hours. Yet, for some reason, you're clamoring for reform over the fact that you didn't spec for an anti-vehicular role and can't remove the situation by non-conventional means. It's truly amusing. I will say this as many times as it takes FIND A DIFFERENT GAME quit ruining our game genre Too bad it's not yours. FPS is ours, eve is yours, you can go back to your futuristic real life simulator.
Durant Durrible 0	Posted - 2012.08.12 08:23:00 - [105] - Quote QQ
Stupid Drunk1 Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 96	Posted - 2012.08.12 08:36:00 - [106] - Quote Lurchasaurus wrote: ALM1GHTY STATIUS wrote: Debacle Nano wrote: ALM1GHTY STATIUS wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Ah, look who finally decided to join and put in their blatantly falsified information. Seriously, mates, if you're so butt-hurt about do what you said you were going to do and leave..! You're the -only ones- complaining that Tanks are over-powered while the rest of us are still thinking that they're -under powered- by comparison to the hulking sky masses in space. You realize how long it takes to down a Titan? Hours. Yet, for some reason, you're clamoring for reform over the fact that you didn't spec for an anti-vehicular role and can't remove the situation by non-conventional means. It's truly amusing. I will say this as many times as it takes FIND A DIFFERENT GAME quit ruining our game genre Too bad it's not yours. FPS is ours, eve is yours, you can go back to your futuristic real life simulator. EvE is Naval Warfare. EvE Dust 514 is Conventional Warfare. CCP has been clear from the very start both will be a futuristic real life simulator. This game has assets and virtual skills that create Force multiplication, in military usage, refers to an attribute or a combination of attributes which make a given force more effective than that same force would be without it. The expected size increase required to have the same effectiveness without that advantage is the multiplication factor. For example, if a certain technology like GPS enables a force to accomplish the same results of a force five times as large but without GPS, then the multiplier is 5. Think the Dark Flock compare them to PRO in MAG, to get the point. The use of small numbers of specialists to create larger effective forces is another form of multiplication. The basic A Team of US Army Special Forces is a 12-man unit that can train and lead a company-sized unit (100-200 men) of local guerrillas. While it is not clear when the term "force multiplier" first appeared in the military literature, the use of small teams to raise much larger guerrilla units was among the first uses of the term. Such estimates are used to justify an investment cost for force multipliers. A force multiplier refers to a factor that dramatically increases (hence "multiplies") the effectiveness of an item or group.
Lurchasaurus SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 808	Posted - 2012.08.12 08:49:00 - [107] - Quote while your intentions are good, guys like almighty simply dont care or dont want to bother with these complexities....+1 for the solid info tho. CCP is gonna do what they want and no matter how much we try and help out by trying to explain how CCP typically does things, they want something else and its gonna take future builds for them to realize what type of game this is gearing up to be.
Stupid Drunk1 Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 96	Posted - 2012.08.12 09:17:00 - [108] - Quote Still fun pointing it out so I can do the "I told you so Dance" Lurchasaurus; Yea Ima GOON at heart.
Andrivullar Sweetshot Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 10	Posted - 2012.08.12 09:18:00 - [109] - Quote As a almost 100% maxed Surya driver, I find it to be very under-powered, especially on the fitting side, i have TWO free mid slots, because of engi/elec not affecting vehicles, and if im not careful, 3 guys Totting skilled AV **** can just eat my tank, so i dont want to hear this BS anymore.
EnglishSnake Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 1012	Posted - 2012.08.12 10:11:00 - [110] - Quote Actually OP tanks are easier to skill into than a Assault fit atm I know my proto Assualt fit takes around 22mil id say to be perfect with all my skills and the mods i use The tanks themselves take less time to get into because the top tanks only require vehicle 5 and gallente HAV 3 where as the proto suit require dropsuit 5 and Caldari 5 Also the weapons do not need as much training, pick your weapon and skill up for it and chances are you will need something to 5 then maybe something else to 2 which again in comparision to some handheld weapons is less time You dont have to train for dropsuits either and other things like AR, nades, certain mods you may not use etc As for tanks are OP, they are OP against 12 randoms who dont know each other, have no mics and are general idiots

Stupid Drunk1 Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 96	Posted - 2012.08.12 11:56:00 - [111] - Quote EnglishSnake wrote: As for tanks are OP, they are OP against 12 randoms who dont know each other, have no mics and are general idiots This times 100 if only in regard to randoms. Collectives will be worse in cases of unprepared corperations taking on more then they can chew.
Jonquill Caronite Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 115	Posted - 2012.08.12 12:01:00 - [112] - Quote Tanks aren't generally OP in my opinions... Good AT can take them out EASILLY... From experience... But I like to consider myself a skilled tank driver... That being said there are some aspects of tanks that can be MADE OP, and need to be fixed or balanced... So now I quote myself from another thread... Quote: Its worst then that though, and I waited til the end of this patch to test it because I didn't want people screaming OP OMG!!! But fit 2 Surya's with High Resist decent armor, and a Heavy Remote Repair module, have lock each other and repair while shooting over each others shoulders and you have an invulnerable camping location... Tested it by putting both of our Surya's in the middle of the highway directly in front of Charlie, and doing it all match, by the end the entire opposing team was AT and they couldn't take us down even though we weren't moving at all... Ironically we still lost due to the remainder of our team being incapable of taking the other two points due to all the forge gunners in towers, but if two people in 2 Surya's can hold a capture point guaranteed, with no hope whatsoever of being defeated, even by a couple Proto Forge Gunners raining hell on those spider tanks, I think its safe to say it works... Unfortunately, even though by not doing this often during this patch we prevented it from being nerfed, after it pops up a lot next patch, I have no doubt whatsoever it will be nerfed before release, which honestly is probably a good thing.. And with grouping... I guarantee it will pop up often next patch =). Yay spider tanking =D.
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.08.12 12:16:00 - [113] - Quote Tanks require skill. Just a lot less. You're immune to 80% of weapons, and can 1hit kill anyone except an enemy HAV. The weapons which do hurt, take more than their clip. Easily enough time to drive off (that's the first bit of skill, driving). The main problem is getting mobbed and knowing when to run (skill2 awareness), but that shouldn't happen, because of the 1 hit kill (skill 3). Playing infantry takes far more skill in all respects, because tanks are simply more effective. For the record, I have never met a broke tanker. People don't QQ the "AR scrubs" like Proto or Carlos or PEEEETREEEE because they're good. They just QQ whatever gun they use (upcoming creodon Nerf, I use Duvolle). With regards tanks being OP? Yeah, currently they are. Mostly because they provide a 1.5 damage mod for weapons with vast areas of effect. The problem is small missiles... Maybe the mad splash from the large railgun this build, but I kinda like that. It's a LARGE railgun after all. Tanks can be killed, it's just the % of the game you spend doing that instead of having glorious fights at the objectives. I'd still have a forge gun. And a tank. And a Dropship. But I want to fight over A, B & C! Not chase some terribad in a no skill wagon. @Nano I think using the Surya, you forget how awesome shield regen with stacked resists is. Possibly. You may have got bored of having a green tank, and switched, I dunno. I think they called the new HAV black ops is because most of the drivers act like spoiled kids who don't care about objectives, and just want to pad their stats. (like a boss)


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